Is there any chance of him not getting a work visa?
If the authorities were to interpret circumstances and rules a certain way then it could happen. One interpretation is that Charlton and Luzon both broke the law of the land when he worked coaching on Thursday and Friday. Indeed Damian Matthew said after the match they were having a try out of Luzon stuff in the first half today. Certainly sounds like he was working this week, and if it wasn't against the law and the rules to have done so, then why wasn't Luzon at work today? One interpretation of those events is that the law was wilfully ignored. If in trying to stop and start again, the home office say 'hold on a minute, what are we dealing with here, you've all been very naughty', and they may insist that now the process is followed to every dot and comma. It may also be interpreted by some kind of judge that it would be disingenuous in the extreme to suggest that in the circumstances Guy Luzon wasn't being reimbursed and also getting expenses whilst here. In addition the other rules may not be satisfactorily addressed, even if Luzon's standing as a great football man is a matter for debate, his formal qualifications would provide more objective scrutiny for the authorities. There is also the 'advertised job' requirement/formality that the authorities could clearly demonstrate hadn't been addressed. There are circumstances here, where on the face of it Guy Luzon could be refused a work permit to be head coach at Charlton, but what I have outlined are circumstances that might make the lawyers drool, and precedent and challenge would allow Guy Luzon to eventually take up his post. On the other hand if the authorities wanted to make a high profile statement about controlling immigration, then they may think that a perfect example has fallen into their lap.
If a few members of the public wrote to immigration authorities questioning why a relatively unknown non European was being given the job when there are better or equally qualified British managers, it won't help him get one.
As i mentioned in another thread and others have mentioned in this one, it is naive to believe Luzon was not involved at least in some way today.
Just because the club has had to pretend he is not working for us yet for legal reasons does not make it true, when we have plenty of evidence to show he has been involved this week.
Not that im saying he is gonna be a disaster based on today, i have an opinion but no serious idea yet but next week is not his first game as Head Coach for us, that was today and it was a disaster.
Luzon wasn't in charge today. Not sure how he can be blamed for this. FFS give the guy a chance. There seem to be a lot of fans with a hidden agenda.
The only agenda I have got is that I want what is best for the Club. What is happening at the moment, in my opinion, is not what is best for our Club. The players are playing with no passion, heart, or motivation. They are a rabble. Why a Coach from the Network who was let go by Standard is brought in can only be a financial decision. There are decent Managers out there like Nigel Adkins, Tim Sherwood, Alan Curbishley. Who do we get Guy Luzon.
Add in the lack of much needed signings and Meire's PR disaster coupled with the lack of a working permit. When things go wrong at Charlton they go wrong in a big way.
Regardless of who is taking over the management at the Valley, we have a crisis on our hands. Previous poor man-management has led to worsening performances on the pitch and issues in the dressing room between new senior foreigners and CP men/youngsters. To turn this situation around we are presented with another foreigner with no insight into the Championship, an iffy c.v., historical "issues" with at least three first choice players, an arrogant attitude and poor command of English. It can only end in tears.
Give the man some credit - he hasn't been here yet in the eyes of the UKBA and already he seems to be taking us back down the road to the likes of Rochdale, if they don't overlap us first Seriously though he is here whether we like it or not, and hopefully we stay up even though a few months ago I was dreaming of the premier league. Now it is consolidating 16th from here on in. That's all I expect for the rest of the season now.
Regardless of who is taking over the management at the Valley, we have a crisis on our hands. Previous poor man-management has led to worsening performances on the pitch and issues in the dressing room between new senior foreigners and CP men/youngsters. To turn this situation around we are presented with another foreigner with no insight into the Championship, an iffy c.v., historical "issues" with at least three first choice players, an arrogant attitude and poor command of English. It can only end in tears.
technically he hasn't signed a contract to be manager, he is still working via his 'network' contract - so I would say that yes it could be reversed , RD would just have to tell Luzon and then notify the proper people (id imagine with Luzon going back to being an advisor to network clubs). Could it happen ? Yes Will it happen ? No , probably not
KM is a lawyer - she knows that Luzon needs to go through a proper recruiment process to have any chance of getting a Visa. Step 1 - anounce said process publically. But oh no - Luzon's wife started following CAFC official on day Peeters was sacked - she probably told her friends. It is coming out soon - so it has to be announced early. But what about the process - well 18 fans, Jewell and Appleton let it be known they were interested. Ring the two ex managers up and pretend it is a preliminary telephone interview. Give Luzon job and claim to have had a recruitment process that UK Immigration will insist on. But unfortunately immigration need it to be a bit more robust, but best network could do under the circumstances. Does that fit what we have seen?
CP is a top class coach and man manger, I think Riga is a more tactical and technical coach in most games under him we had equal possession we also created a lot more chances via good movement good timing, he brought the best out of attacking players who were lacklustre most of the season e.g Harriott & Sordell the combination play in and around the box was good we built up play without the use of a Target Man.
The only attacking player to perform under Peeters is Vetokele, I personally think we are still weak with options upfront and out wide, but I think Harriott, Gudmundsson, Moussa, Tucudean, Bulot & KAG would perform a lot better if they had a Manager/Head Coach like Riga.
Depends on the home office if they take a dim view on someone working in this country without a work permit. Maybe a slap on the wrist or a possible fine. Deported? Maybe not, but either someone at the club things they are above the law or its another cock up to add to the list over the last 8 days.
Hard to see how the Home Office could accept that Luzon is so special to be granted a fast-track visa and also that there are no better candidates from within the EU. His CV hardly stacks up, and allied to the fact the club have utterly buggered up the whole process, it looks as if we could be on three manager in 2015 before January is out!
Hasn't Luzon been on a retainer with RD's holding company. Presumably in that role, already contracted to a European Company, he could be an adviser/consultant etc without breaching visa requirements; formal employmret by CAFC taking place once a visa was granted. Just a thought!
Hasn't Luzon been on a retainer with RD's holding company. Presumably in that role, already contracted to a European Company, he could be an adviser/consultant etc without breaching visa requirements; formal employmret by CAFC taking place once a visa was granted. Just a thought!
Problem with that is the club publicly announced him as being our manager on Tuesday and held a press conference stating such. I know that our leaders have been economical and flexible with their facts this week but I think even they would struggle to have the balls to say to the Home Office "oh sorry, saying he was now manager was just a mistake speaking in our second language. We meant he was just visiting as an advisor as part of his current employment".
The atmosphere amongst the support is becoming increasingly toxic. Seems today that the players are none impressed, and it could well be that player feeling is much deeper than that.
Things can move quickly in this game, and the club is looking more and more in need of a complete overhaul.
Is there any way one of RDs advisors will push the agenda with him that the likelihood is we are going about this the wrong, and is there any chance he will listen to it?
Good question, but unlikely I reckon in the same way we see protest of govenrment changes and they still push it through. Uni fees for example. Probably be the same with Luzon if he gets his work permit.
The club will argue that he is an employee of the network and that he has worked for over 6 months for the network but they still have to explain why his skills are needed in this country. It depends on how difficult the home office decides to be. If they get a few complaints they are more likely to be more difficult so it is quite possible that the statement that the fans just have to accept RDs decision may not be entirely correct. I think a case that Luzon is more qualified than a large number of European coaches out of a job would be hard for the club to make. Especially as he was sacked after quite a short period and only being 37. Would be even harder if LMA gets involved.
Contrary to what it might look like from my earlier posts on other threads, I would have much preferred to have had another manager than Luzon; although not just anyone simply because they are British. However, it is abundantly clear (even more so after Watford) that we need to use the transfer window, and so if he cannot be substituted very quickly it would be better if the visa were granted equally smartly and we moved on.
This link really says it all. Looking at all the requirements it would beggar belief to suggest Luzon passed all those rules before working last Thursday and Friday. We and he broke the law it seems. It also seems to satisfy the rules there are more obstacles to overcome like the mandatory English requirements, Luzon also has to front up about £1000 as well.
Luzon may be Mr Duchatelet's choice but he is yet to qualify and we have already been careless with the procedure if not criminal with it.
This link really says it all. Looking at all the requirements it would beggar belief to suggest Luzon passed all those rules before working last Thursday and Friday. We and he broke the law it seems. It also seems like to satisfy the rules there are more obstacles to overcome like the mandatory English requirements, Luzon also has to front up about £1000 as well.
Luzon may be Mr Duchatelet's choice but he is yet to qualify and we have already been careless with the procedure if not criminal with it.
This is the mob i work for..but not in the capacity of dishing out visas i might add but it looks like there could be more trouble ahead
The date of the application for a work permit could be interesting. Could it have been made before Peeters was sacked?
FOI request anyone? Unless the Work-permit issue is a smokescreen for anything else (which there are a few rumours flying) , I would expect it to have been completed if it was made before peeters was sacked!
Comments
One interpretation is that Charlton and Luzon both broke the law of the land when he worked coaching on Thursday and Friday. Indeed Damian Matthew said after the match they were having a try out of Luzon stuff in the first half today.
Certainly sounds like he was working this week, and if it wasn't against the law and the rules to have done so, then why wasn't Luzon at work today?
One interpretation of those events is that the law was wilfully ignored. If in trying to stop and start again, the home office say 'hold on a minute, what are we dealing with here, you've all been very naughty', and they may insist that now the process is followed to every dot and comma.
It may also be interpreted by some kind of judge that it would be disingenuous in the extreme to suggest that in the circumstances Guy Luzon wasn't being reimbursed and also getting expenses whilst here.
In addition the other rules may not be satisfactorily addressed, even if Luzon's standing as a great football man is a matter for debate, his formal qualifications would provide more objective scrutiny for the authorities. There is also the 'advertised job' requirement/formality that the authorities could clearly demonstrate hadn't been addressed.
There are circumstances here, where on the face of it Guy Luzon could be refused a work permit to be head coach at Charlton, but what I have outlined are circumstances that might make the lawyers drool, and precedent and challenge would allow Guy Luzon to eventually take up his post.
On the other hand if the authorities wanted to make a high profile statement about controlling immigration, then they may think that a perfect example has fallen into their lap.
Just because the club has had to pretend he is not working for us yet for legal reasons does not make it true, when we have plenty of evidence to show he has been involved this week.
Not that im saying he is gonna be a disaster based on today, i have an opinion but no serious idea yet but next week is not his first game as Head Coach for us, that was today and it was a disaster.
Add in the lack of much needed signings and Meire's PR disaster coupled with the lack of a working permit. When things go wrong at Charlton they go wrong in a big way.
But in battalions
Could it happen ? Yes
Will it happen ? No , probably not
The only attacking player to perform under Peeters is Vetokele, I personally think we are still weak with options upfront and out wide, but I think Harriott, Gudmundsson, Moussa, Tucudean, Bulot & KAG would perform a lot better if they had a Manager/Head Coach like Riga.
However, it is abundantly clear (even more so after Watford) that we need to use the transfer window, and so if he cannot be substituted very quickly it would be better if the visa were granted equally smartly and we moved on.
https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-sportsperson-worker-visa
Luzon may be Mr Duchatelet's choice but he is yet to qualify and we have already been careless with the procedure if not criminal with it.
Weren't there riots at Liege when Luzon was appointed there and he didn't reverse that.
Unless the Work-permit issue is a smokescreen for anything else (which there are a few rumours flying) , I would expect it to have been completed if it was made before peeters was sacked!