My instinctive feeling is that Fox, in time, will be judged probably at the top end of the Sturgess, Stuart, Basey level of Charlton home produced left back rather than the Minto, Konchesky level.
However what I would say about Morgan is that he has been "written off" regularly as not quite good enough since academy days but justs dusts himself down and comes back stronger.
That attitude and mental resilience can get you a long way in all walks of life even if you do not have all the natural gifts.
When Fox was playing 'well' at the start of the season I think some were over egging how good he actually was. It's just that he was doing a bit better than usual, but looking back he was still average even at his best.
He's not good enough, and unless he has some sort of Simon Francis like rejuvenation then he never will be at this level.
How quickly people forget that last season Fox was keeping Wiggins out of the team on merit. Wiggins was out injured far too often and since we flogged him to Wednesday he's barely played. I think Wiggins to the Wendies is actually one of the best bits of business this lot in charge have done
Wiggins played poorly before he left us and I don't think we miss him. Fox is an average player who constantly seems to me to be caught out of position - not sure if this is always his fault or maybe down to the player in front of him. Fox and Solly are out of form at present - THD can offer more pace but it's early days for him and he needs to get a run in the team to establish himself. Fans need to get behind the players but obviously that won't happen - Fox seems to get a fair amount of stick.
I didn't think Fox was any worse than half our team yesterday, BUT he did have two annoying moments at the start of the half where he hesitated in going for the ball, and turned what should have been comfortable possession into a 50/50 ball. I don't know whether that's a lack of a football brain or casualness
How quickly people forget that last season Fox was keeping Wiggins out of the team on merit. Wiggins was out injured far too often and since we flogged him to Wednesday he's barely played. I think Wiggins to the Wendies is actually one of the best bits of business this lot in charge have done
Nothing wrong with my memory on this one and who was making those decisions?........Oh yes our very own version of Alex Furguson, says it all really.
How quickly people forget that last season Fox was keeping Wiggins out of the team on merit. Wiggins was out injured far too often and since we flogged him to Wednesday he's barely played. I think Wiggins to the Wendies is actually one of the best bits of business this lot in charge have done
Nothing wrong with my memory on this one and who was making those decisions?........Oh yes our very own version of Alex Furguson, says it all really.
How quickly people forget that last season Fox was keeping Wiggins out of the team on merit. Wiggins was out injured far too often and since we flogged him to Wednesday he's barely played. I think Wiggins to the Wendies is actually one of the best bits of business this lot in charge have done
Nothing wrong with my memory on this one and who was making those decisions?........Oh yes our very own version of Alex Furguson, says it all really.
Eh?
C'mon Gary wasn't the appointment of Luzon referred to as hopefully being our very own Alex Ferguson and when Wiggins got fit, the chosen one preferred Fox over him which doesn't necessarily mean he was in on merit maybe just that he offered different attributes which found favour with Luzon.
Anyway I'll continue to encourage the lad when he pulls the shirt on as I do all the players but I never rated him better than Wiggins and still don't. Just because he is home grown doesn't cut any ice with me it's what they do on the pitch that counts and I judge accordingly sorry if others don't like it or see it my way, it's all about opinions.
If he's playing in the Championship or better within 2 years I'm dusting my boots off Heart and endeavour can take you so far , he's firmly in the Grant Basey League One player at best ,with me , camp
For the record as pony as Francis was for us underneath the shit I could see a player
If he's playing in the Championship or better within 2 years I'm dusting my boots off Heart and endeavour can take you so far , he's firmly in the Grant Basey League One player at best ,with me , camp
For the record as pony as Francis was for us underneath the shit I could see a player
I was with you all the way there Oohaa even prepared to let you dust your boots off to save trying to find mine somewhere in the garage then you went and mentioned Francis. Only joking
The biggest groan he got yesterday was when he didn't try to dive into a tackle halfway inside the Ipswich half.
There was 50m of open space in behind him so he made the right decision to back off and defend the space.
Five seconds later, his decision had won us back possession of the ball.
Said exactly that to Golfie at the time, people groan but would be first to moan if he dived in, got beaten and then they went on to score. He has his limitations but he cares, tries his damnedest and is committed to the cause.
It's a shame but he is not good enough. From his debut he has always looked like "a rabbit in the headlights" whenever he is in pocession of the ball. He does not look comfortable on the ball, he is slow in passing the ball or crossing. But then I thought Simon Francis was rubbish and he has developed into a Premiership player who attacks well.
How quickly people forget that last season Fox was keeping Wiggins out of the team on merit. Wiggins was out injured far too often and since we flogged him to Wednesday he's barely played. I think Wiggins to the Wendies is actually one of the best bits of business this lot in charge have done
Nothing wrong with my memory on this one and who was making those decisions?........Oh yes our very own version of Alex Furguson, says it all really.
Eh?
C'mon Gary wasn't the appointment of Luzon referred to as hopefully being our very own Alex Ferguson and when Wiggins got fit, the chosen one preferred Fox over him which doesn't necessarily mean he was in on merit maybe just that he offered different attributes which found favour with Luzon.
Anyway I'll continue to encourage the lad when he pulls the shirt on as I do all the players but I never rated him better than Wiggins and still don't. Just because he is home grown doesn't cut any ice with me it's what they do on the pitch that counts and I judge accordingly sorry if others don't like it or see it my way, it's all about opinions.
Well considering the superb run we went on towards the end of the season that saved us from relegation I'd say that Fox was definitely there on merit.
Ok Garry we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Incidentally I've extrapolated some figures from last seasons Statbank broken down as follows;
Wiggins played 20 matches (15 first half and 5 second half - curtailed because of injury), average score 6.1. Fox played 24 matches (7 first half 17 second half) average score 6.1.
So despite what me and you think and I see you had him as our best back four defender yesterday with a very generous mark of 6 (it's all about opinions) whilst I had him better than Sarr and no worse than the others the consensus of opinion on CL is that there was nothing to chose between them last season which is fine. However to say he got there ahead of Wiggins on merit is highly debatable. Maybe his size, maybe his heading ability appealed to Luzon maybe RD was calling the shots but no way did he get there on pace, ability to read the game, deliver on the ball or by offering an attacking threat. I'm out.
Ok Garry we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Incidentally I've extrapolated some figures from last seasons Statbank broken down as follows;
Wiggins played 20 matches (15 first half and 5 second half - curtailed because of injury), average score 6.1. Fox played 24 matches (7 first half 17 second half) average score 6.1.
So despite what me and you think and I see you had him as our best back four defender yesterday with a very generous mark of 6 (it's all about opinions) whilst I had him better than Sarr and no worse than the others the consensus of opinion on CL is that there was nothing to chose between them last season which is fine. However to say he got there ahead of Wiggins on merit is highly debatable. Maybe his size, maybe his heading ability appealed to Luzon maybe RD was calling the shots but no way did he get there on pace, ability to read the game, deliver on the ball or by offering an attacking threat. I'm out.
I actually think those statbank figures illustrate my point quite well. Despite Wiggins supposedly being one of our best players (I was of that opinion before injuries ruined him) he's level with Fox, who gets an absolute pasting on the stats thread almost every week. Look at this week's stats. I was generous because he only played 45 and didn't make any terrible mistakes while having an average game, which is a 6 by my system, but he got so many 2s. 2! Out of 10! Despite not doing anything particularly wrong. Fox has more detractors than any other player of ours so it shows just how much he came on towards the end of last season. I think maybe you're using a different definition of merit to me. By merit I mean based on form and performances, there was no justification for dropping Fox. He had done well and there was no need to take him out of the squad, particularly with Wiggins looking so average when he did appear. I'm not saying Fox is a genius left back, but he earned his place in the squad.
The biggest groan he got yesterday was when he didn't try to dive into a tackle halfway inside the Ipswich half.
There was 50m of open space in behind him so he made the right decision to back off and defend the space.
Five seconds later, his decision had won us back possession of the ball.
Said exactly that to Golfie at the time, people groan but would be first to moan if he dived in, got beaten and then they went on to score. He has his limitations but he cares, tries his damnedest and is committed to the cause.
They groaned because it was at least 60-40 at least in his favour. I've tried to defend Fox a lot and think he's decent but yesterdays performance was beyond defending. Diabolical and shown by the fact he never emerged second half. Sols is not nearly the player he was but it has to be him and THD against Brighton.
Solly let himself get manhandled in the box for Ipswich's first and got caught in no-man's land for their third marking thin air. Fox played 45 and was taken off at half time because we needed to change it up, he'd picked up a tactical yellow and we had two other full-backs on the pitch. Solly had an absolute shocker on Saturday and considering he was left out because of his form in the first place he should hardly walk back into the team having had one of his worst games. He was a liability on Saturday, and I say that as someone who loves the bloke
Fox did plenty wrong in 45mins Saturday and god knows how much worse he would of got with another 45 mins!!! I agree Solly has been shocking lately but at least we all know there is a quality player in there something Fox has never shown apart from a few good crosses and one good shot
Solly let himself get manhandled in the box for Ipswich's first and got caught in no-man's land for their third marking thin air. Fox played 45 and was taken off at half time because we needed to change it up, he'd picked up a tactical yellow and we had two other full-backs on the pitch. Solly had an absolute shocker on Saturday and considering he was left out because of his form in the first place he should hardly walk back into the team having had one of his worst games. He was a liability on Saturday, and I say that as someone who loves the bloke
Garry this Fox love in has got to stop it's Monday and you've got a weeks work ahead of you, let it go
My problem with Fox is not his ability but his reading of the game and speed. He has a habit of ambling after the ball and allowing the forward to close him down and put him under unnecessary pressure, but the most annoying (for me) is his tendency to allow the ball to roll as close as he can to the touchline before playing it which invariably means that, if he does slightly miss hit it, the ball goes out rather than the receiver just having to readjust. He needs to speed up his game because I think he is making himself look a worse player than his technical ability should allow him to be.
Solly let himself get manhandled in the box for Ipswich's first and got caught in no-man's land for their third marking thin air. Fox played 45 and was taken off at half time because we needed to change it up, he'd picked up a tactical yellow and we had two other full-backs on the pitch. Solly had an absolute shocker on Saturday and considering he was left out because of his form in the first place he should hardly walk back into the team having had one of his worst games. He was a liability on Saturday, and I say that as someone who loves the bloke
The problem on Saturday was the Substitution... By bringing Solly one we reverted to a flat 4-4-2, when Jackson got subbed I was surprised Solly replaced him, instead I'd have brought Ba on in his place so that we kept the Diamond
Solly let himself get manhandled in the box for Ipswich's first and got caught in no-man's land for their third marking thin air. Fox played 45 and was taken off at half time because we needed to change it up, he'd picked up a tactical yellow and we had two other full-backs on the pitch. Solly had an absolute shocker on Saturday and considering he was left out because of his form in the first place he should hardly walk back into the team having had one of his worst games. He was a liability on Saturday, and I say that as someone who loves the bloke
Garry this Fox love in has got to stop it's Monday and you've got a weeks work ahead of you, let it go
Christ, don't remind me. The only thing getting me through is the thought of Morgan Fox slowly sprinting across The Valley pitch, women with prams overtaking him as he goes
Defensively he is poor. He gives the winger so much space to cross the ball. Majority of crosses that we concede from and are down his side because he stands off and watches the cross be sent in. And if it isn't his side, he loses his man and they score! Just don't understand what game people watch when they try to defend him.
Solly let himself get manhandled in the box for Ipswich's first and got caught in no-man's land for their third marking thin air. Fox played 45 and was taken off at half time because we needed to change it up, he'd picked up a tactical yellow and we had two other full-backs on the pitch. Solly had an absolute shocker on Saturday and considering he was left out because of his form in the first place he should hardly walk back into the team having had one of his worst games. He was a liability on Saturday, and I say that as someone who loves the bloke
The problem on Saturday was the Substitution... By bringing Solly one we reverted to a flat 4-4-2, when Jackson got subbed I was surprised Solly replaced him, instead I'd have brought Ba on in his place so that we kept the Diamond
So KF's lack of tactical acumen forced Fox to play badly; good theory.
Comments
Sorry I pressed like instead of quote by mistake.
However what I would say about Morgan is that he has been "written off" regularly as not quite good enough since academy days but justs dusts himself down and comes back stronger.
That attitude and mental resilience can get you a long way in all walks of life even if you do not have all the natural gifts.
He's not good enough, and unless he has some sort of Simon Francis like rejuvenation then he never will be at this level.
Fox and Solly are out of form at present - THD can offer more pace but it's early days for him and he needs to get a run in the team to establish himself.
Fans need to get behind the players but obviously that won't happen - Fox seems to get a fair amount of stick.
Anyway I'll continue to encourage the lad when he pulls the shirt on as I do all the players but I never rated him better than Wiggins and still don't. Just because he is home grown doesn't cut any ice with me it's what they do on the pitch that counts and I judge accordingly sorry if others don't like it or see it my way, it's all about opinions.
Heart and endeavour can take you so far , he's firmly in the Grant Basey League One player at best ,with me , camp
For the record as pony as Francis was for us underneath the shit I could see a player
But then I thought Simon Francis was rubbish and he has developed into a Premiership player who attacks well.
Wiggins played 20 matches (15 first half and 5 second half - curtailed because of injury), average score 6.1. Fox played 24 matches (7 first half 17 second half) average score 6.1.
So despite what me and you think and I see you had him as our best back four defender yesterday with a very generous mark of 6 (it's all about opinions) whilst I had him better than Sarr and no worse than the others the consensus of opinion on CL is that there was nothing to chose between them last season which is fine. However to say he got there ahead of Wiggins on merit is highly debatable. Maybe his size, maybe his heading ability appealed to Luzon maybe RD was calling the shots but no way did he get there on pace, ability to read the game, deliver on the ball or by offering an attacking threat. I'm out.
"He used to be shiite, then he was all right, but now he's shiite"
Just don't understand what game people watch when they try to defend him.