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Charlton vs Bolton - post match views

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  • One or two people keep saying 'when we come up against a decent attacking side we're gonna get stuffed big time' (or something along those lines).

    We've played Norwich, and beaten them without conceding.
    We've played Watford, and beaten them without conceding.
    We've played Derby, and beaten them.
    We've played Wolves, who also score lots of goals, and drew with them.

    The major strength of our team is clearly the defence. Bob knows that I think, and trusts them to hold firm even if we concede most of the possession. And although we could definitely be improved up front with an addition or two, we are still scoring goals.

    I'm aware that at some point the comparisons with last season are going to wear thin (if they haven't already), but I'm still much happier now than I was then. We are moving in the right direction.

    Good post.
  • edited October 2014
    Could not make last night due to work commitments so cannot comment on the performance. However you have to give Bob and his coaching staff all the credit in the world for the way they have got this paper thin squad working there bollocks off. From the games I have seen The quality of passing and movement has been on another level to recent years. Ok we won't may not play well every week. That's football but I'm liking the way these boys fight for the badge. Looking forward to Fulham.
  • Just got in, can we buy the little china man from bolton as this is the sort of player we are missing from our missing....

    he's korean, you dinosaur

    Same meat - different gravy.
  • Good to read all the varied comments, i was confused by some of the extreme negativity as based on the comments of Pete and Terry on CAFC Player, they seemed to suggest last night we found some of our early season style again.

    Delighted that Tucudean made an impact with the goal & assist, from what i have seen of him there is a lot of potential if we can just get the best out of him.

    Either way, no matter how "poor" we may play this season if results stay the same, we could just sneak an extra 2 or 3 games at the end of the season, plenty to be happy about right now.
  • edited October 2014

    I think this is a very level division.

    Look at the results last night.

    8 draws out of 12 I think without bothering to check.

    At the moment no one is running away with it and bar Blackpool no one is being cut adrift.

    The small margins of luck and last night skill make all the difference.

    We are defensively strong so only need one or two magic moments to win a game and we did that last night.

    I enjoyed it but I want to see us win first and play like 1960 Real Madrid second.

    Crickey , your're not asking for much are you Henry :-0

  • Good to read all the varied comments, i was confused by some of the extreme negativity as based on the comments of Pete and Terry on CAFC Player, they seemed to suggest last night we found some of our early season style again.

    Surprised by that, though the two goals were pretty stylish.
  • For all those wanting a clearer picture you only have to wait another two months:
    1) FFP reporting deadline for last season is 1 December - I don't know if they release details of financials but they should indicate who is fined and whether any clubs will be excluded from the January window
    2) another ten games and we will see if Bulot, Tucudean and Moussa can continue to develop
    3) the last three seasons suggest 36 points is enough to be sixth at the half way mark - that's another 14 points from ten games - I reckon worst case is we'll be 10th with only 10 more points
    4) a genuine top six candidate needs to secure 4/6 points of each and every bottom half club - bring on Millwall, Blackpool etc. Let's see how we do.
    5) some rumours or statements from the club might indicate intentions for the window.
    6) Liege will take decisions on coach and players which may affect us?

    So within one year of the takeover we should know where we are.

    They are running a tight ship and I wouldn't worry about injuries to the back five for we have adequate cover. What matters is the front six and I think it will be quite expensive to improve on what we already have. Tucudean, Moussa and the rest deserve a chance to play their way into our first XI for the second half of the season... Any kinda result on Friday and we are back in the top six although maybe only for a day!
  • A much needed win last night and now takes the pressure off going into Friday night. For all the possession Bolton had, Henderson was hardly tested shot wise. The two centre Halfs were a model of consistency again and glad to see George have a decent game.
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  • RedChaser said:

    RedChaser said:

    Two quality goals in an otherwise uninspiring display, but then this division is about grinding out results, Derby won 1-0 at Blackpool, it's such tight games that decide promotions and relegations.

    Very inexperienced bench, Fox seemed unsure what to when he came on. I know there's no vacancy at CB, but surely there must be a role for Morrison on the pitch somewhere. He's not a brilliant RB, but playing him there at some point last night would have freed up Wilson to play in midfield where we were badly overrun...

    Totally agree with this and said the same after the Brighton game when he brought Fox on instead and we needed aerial presence at the back to counteract their CB Dunk who scored twice for them and nicked a point. However Bob seems to have a fixation about bringing Fox on in midfield late in the game when he is a full back! Still he clearly knows what he is doing as we held on for the bounce back we were looking for. :-)
    I thought it made sense yesterday, Bulot went missing a bit and doesn't offer much cover for the fullback defensively. A lot of people on here thought Wiggins had a bad game, I don't - he tucked in when needed and to make a couple of crucial interventions but as a result Bolton's right side was often an outlet for a cross-field pass, which made it look like he was constantly out of position. Actually what was needed was cover from the left mid, particularly as they weren't busy attacking.
    Wasn't Cousins supposed to be providing cover in front of Wiggins? Cousins was switched to the right when Fox (who looked looked lost) came on but if Morrison had slotted in at right RB just move Wilson RM and no need to move Cousins simples. It's great though how we all see it different otherwise it would be boring on here. :-)
    Sorry RedChaser, you're definately right that Cousins was LM first half and the cover in front of Wiggins. Second half i'm sure Bulot was out there at least for a spell before being replaced, remember a tired breakaway where he was dispossessed after a 10 yard headstart on the defender.
  • Stig said:

    Not a classic by any stretch of the imagination. Two pretty poor teams, but an entertaining enough match despite that. I certainly wouldn't be queuing to buy any Bolton players; some of theirs were better than some of ours on the night, but none were that great. Despite the possession stats, I think we shaded it. We were the better side until we scored our second goal at which point our midfield seemed to lose all sense of purpose. They were better after that, and encouraged by their goal. Fortunately (again) our defence remained pretty solid. Two big differences overall, our defence was better and we took our chances.

    Getting a bit fed up with your excellent, reasoned, eloquent insights, Stig.
    For future reference, please include
    1. Hyperbole
    2. Blind criticism of at least one player
    3. Jaundiced opinions of how bad BP is
    and not forgetting
    4. At least one personal dig at another lister.

    And a totally unwarranted Flag.

    Cheers now.


    Wasn't he going to sign for us from Olympiakos?
    Better than that American we were going to sign, Superbole

  • cabbles said:

    I'm going for a slightly different stance to those above. Yeah we were sloppy in possession, yes we sat back, yes we didn't look threatening on the whole. But for a man, they worked their backsides off and I'm not up for listening to any negativity around the result/performance, and these are my reasons why.

    1. Our squad. On our day we have just about, a good first XI. Of that first XI, some are the mainstays, the ones that pull our team through and I think other championship teams would want. I was convinced, and perhaps a bit naively after the Derby game, that this could be a great season.

    It's natural. I've realised with the squad we have, I just want to get as many points as possible to get safety, and then see what happens. I think we'll finish mid table, and after last year, new manager, new owner I'll take that. We're not play off material IMO, so every win is great and the fact we have a few already this season, in tough games is cracking.

    2. On tonight's game, those injuries threw a mixture of players together that hadn't had much game time as a unit, so we weren't that fluid. However we played to our strengths. Yes, Bikey et al soak up a lot of pressure, but they are the most solid aspect of our play. If we put it on JJ & Buyens, Bulot, they're not going to see us through. Let those that can use their strengths, give us a platform and we get what we can.

    3. Those that did come in, ie Tucudean stepped up. Granted he went to ground very easily about 4 times in the opening 10 mins, and doesn't really provide us with an outlet, but he took his goal superbly. For someone who has probably not got to grips with the standard in the championship and who's confidence could have been knocked, that was a great finish. He was clever to set up JJ for the second as well. Moussa I thought also tried hard to hold the ball up and did well. Wilson grew as the game went on.

    4. Bob Peeters. He was just as animated and pissed off as we were with every misplaced pass, and taking too long to get out from corners and dropping too deep. He has real passion, a game plan and his utilising our strengths which I think is clever. No disrespect to CP, but there were games last season where you felt he was almost happy for us to be entrenched when a corner was cleared.

    He never rocketed Stephens for one of his loose balls or ripped into Church for his general shitness. Peeters will let them know. And he's not afraid to change it. I didn't go on sat and it is clear it was one of our poorest performances, but reading on here, people said he tried to change it. CP was very stubborn, I think BP is clued up enough to shake it up.

    The other little bits I have to add were fair play to JJ again - 2 things he did well were obviously score (although I would've been fuming if he missed such a chance given that's why I feel he's in the team). And a great interception right at the death when the ball got played across our box from their left. I will say though that he doesn't actually look comfortable receiving the ball. There were a few times in the 1st half when his touch and composure seem to disappear. He doesn't suit the balls into feet he may get if Bikey & TBH play it out from the back.

    Buyens didn't have a great game, but he looked like he was getting back to finding his passes again. I still think these 2 struggle in a midfield 2 though.

    I actually believe that Bolton have probably got better players than us technique and passing wise (certainly in the midfield), so actually I think this is a great win. And if you're a Bolton fan then you'd admit deep down they needed to do more with the ball.

    I'm not naive enough that I don't think we have faults, and I know where they are. I just sit next to a very negative person and got fed up with a lot of the moaning from him and around me tonight. And sometimes when I read the pre-match thread and see people predicting defeats, it wears me down. Hence why I'm keen to really big this win up tonight

    This. Saved me a job.
  • cabbles said:

    I would also like to point out that a lot of people around me were getting wound up by the fact that Henderson kept putting his goal kicks and clearances over on the left to Cousins who was trying to flick them on. People kept saying he should be mixing it up, it's too obvious etc. I think they were wrong and this was another example of BP's tactical game plan.

    If you look at it, in the centre up top we had Tuc with Moussa in behind. In most circumstances, the 1 or 2 forwards have their backs to goal and are jumping from a standing start. You have to have exceptional aerial prowess to be able to do anything in that situation as a forward (like Kermorgant). Those two don't. Add to the fact that Mills & Dervite would've gobbled up anything like that it would've been a wasted ball. In addition, if Mills & Dervite did win the ball, they make a headed clearance into the area of the pitch I think Bob wants us to spend as little time in as possible, because it involves winning the 2nd ball using either Buyens or JJ. We know that the midfield scrap isn't either of their 'bags', and risked getting overrun in this area.

    However, an angled clearance from Henderson to the left, to Cousins who at least shows willingness to jump (It was never going to be Bulot was it), has a number of advantages. It stops everything happening I have listed above, and if Cousins does win it (he has a good chance as he was of a similar size to McNaughton), then it means Mills & Dervite then have to turn if the ball has gone in behind them, or at least Moussa and Tuc get it to feet.

    Finally, if McNaugton wins it, chances are that close to the byline, the ball doesn't go back into the centre of the pitch and goes off for a throw in.

    I might be looking at this from too much of a microscopic view, but again I thought it was worth pointing out what I feel was clever play from Peeters, and an answer to all those who were grumbling every time it happened last night.

    All right in theory, but several of Henderson's clearances went straight out of play. And for those who are convinced that our defence is rock-solid, look again at this atrocious defending from a corner that led to Bolton's goal: http://youtu.be/O0fRYr9XXeI

  • _MrDick said:

    It's all been said on the previous 3 pages. Horrible game to watch. I missed the first two home games and haven't enjoyed a single match since. I just don't like the way we drop deep and let teams have possession. We're gonna get caught out big time sooner rather than later.

    Dont come then......
    Calls it like it is and gets told not to come. Charming.
  • The oppo's seem to have about 15 corners a match, so for 95% of the time we are fine.

    Believe me, the defence is the last of our worries.

    Your not seeing the true picture Viewfinder,

    focus.

  • Bikey seemed to like the 3 points last night, that's enough for me!

    image
  • LenGlover said:

    Reflected a bit on last night.

    We have played Derby, Watford, Wolves, Middlesbrough and Bolton at The Valley amongst others.

    Four of those five teams mentioned are in the top six of the table I believe and one is in the bottom three.

    Given what we have seen on the field of play in these matches could you (honestly) conclusively pick the top six teams from the bottom three one if you hadn't seen a league table in the paper?

    I'm not sure I could and that shows that the margins in this division are very narrow indeed.

    We are picking up points when seemingly not playing particularly well.

    That has to be a good thing and will hopefully keep us out of the bottom three and then who knows where it could take us in a tight, close division.

    Agreed, I thought Birmingham were one of the better teams we've seen at the Valley this season!
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  • Those calling for Morrison to come on ....... when winning, no manager is going to break up a solid defensive unit unless he has to, injury for example.

    And Morro has proved each time he's played at RB that it's not his position.



    Now there might be case for bringing him on when we're a goal down and chasing the game in the last 10 minutes - Bikey is put up front to lead the line and Morro takes his position at CB.

    But in practice, BP has gone 3 at the back when pushing Bikey up top.



  • cabbles said:

    I would also like to point out that a lot of people around me were getting wound up by the fact that Henderson kept putting his goal kicks and clearances over on the left to Cousins who was trying to flick them on. People kept saying he should be mixing it up, it's too obvious etc. I think they were wrong and this was another example of BP's tactical game plan.

    If you look at it, in the centre up top we had Tuc with Moussa in behind. In most circumstances, the 1 or 2 forwards have their backs to goal and are jumping from a standing start. You have to have exceptional aerial prowess to be able to do anything in that situation as a forward (like Kermorgant). Those two don't. Add to the fact that Mills & Dervite would've gobbled up anything like that it would've been a wasted ball. In addition, if Mills & Dervite did win the ball, they make a headed clearance into the area of the pitch I think Bob wants us to spend as little time in as possible, because it involves winning the 2nd ball using either Buyens or JJ. We know that the midfield scrap isn't either of their 'bags', and risked getting overrun in this area.

    However, an angled clearance from Henderson to the left, to Cousins who at least shows willingness to jump (It was never going to be Bulot was it), has a number of advantages. It stops everything happening I have listed above, and if Cousins does win it (he has a good chance as he was of a similar size to McNaughton), then it means Mills & Dervite then have to turn if the ball has gone in behind them, or at least Moussa and Tuc get it to feet.

    Finally, if McNaugton wins it, chances are that close to the byline, the ball doesn't go back into the centre of the pitch and goes off for a throw in.

    I might be looking at this from too much of a microscopic view, but again I thought it was worth pointing out what I feel was clever play from Peeters, and an answer to all those who were grumbling every time it happened last night.

    All right in theory, but several of Henderson's clearances went straight out of play. And for those who are convinced that our defence is rock-solid, look again at this atrocious defending from a corner that led to Bolton's goal: http://youtu.be/O0fRYr9XXeI

    You are right, the defending was poor for the corner, but for over 95% of the game the defence stood resolute. This was the same for the corners I felt.

    Also, if does go out for a throw in, we are gaining territory. Bit of a rugby union approach to it. But we don't have a physical team. We can't compete with balls in the air. I thought it was a good strategy
  • Maybe if we didn't invite so much pressure and give so many corners away as result.
  • edited October 2014

    cabbles said:

    I would also like to point out that a lot of people around me were getting wound up by the fact that Henderson kept putting his goal kicks and clearances over on the left to Cousins who was trying to flick them on. People kept saying he should be mixing it up, it's too obvious etc. I think they were wrong and this was another example of BP's tactical game plan.

    If you look at it, in the centre up top we had Tuc with Moussa in behind. In most circumstances, the 1 or 2 forwards have their backs to goal and are jumping from a standing start. You have to have exceptional aerial prowess to be able to do anything in that situation as a forward (like Kermorgant). Those two don't. Add to the fact that Mills & Dervite would've gobbled up anything like that it would've been a wasted ball. In addition, if Mills & Dervite did win the ball, they make a headed clearance into the area of the pitch I think Bob wants us to spend as little time in as possible, because it involves winning the 2nd ball using either Buyens or JJ. We know that the midfield scrap isn't either of their 'bags', and risked getting overrun in this area.

    However, an angled clearance from Henderson to the left, to Cousins who at least shows willingness to jump (It was never going to be Bulot was it), has a number of advantages. It stops everything happening I have listed above, and if Cousins does win it (he has a good chance as he was of a similar size to McNaughton), then it means Mills & Dervite then have to turn if the ball has gone in behind them, or at least Moussa and Tuc get it to feet.

    Finally, if McNaugton wins it, chances are that close to the byline, the ball doesn't go back into the centre of the pitch and goes off for a throw in.

    I might be looking at this from too much of a microscopic view, but again I thought it was worth pointing out what I feel was clever play from Peeters, and an answer to all those who were grumbling every time it happened last night.

    All right in theory, but several of Henderson's clearances went straight out of play. And for those who are convinced that our defence is rock-solid, look again at this atrocious defending from a corner that led to Bolton's goal: http://youtu.be/O0fRYr9XXeI

    I would hardly call that atrocious!

    The original header was won by a Bolton player (only just as he got a poor connection!) and as it bounced up awkwardly you could see Bikey making sure he didnt handle it. Player layed it back and it was a fairly decent strike in the end.

    If thats the case against our defence not being rock-solid, then i think we'll be alright.
  • Glad to see Razils admission that he left early as I did too.Like Razil I "never" do that and was convinced we were going to concede.It makes a lot of difference to the journey home not getting all the traffic.I have always been one to slag off people who leave early but I worked on the basis that if they scored I didnt want to see that and if we scored I would be happy.Kept the radio turned off till 9.45 so as still felt tense on way home not knowing the result.A bit surreal.
  • Grim but we won Bolton completely outplayed us. Oh how we need their no 27 totally bossed midfield.

    Tucdean took his goal superbly and unselfishly made the 2nd. We can't keep playing like this. We never strung more than 2 passes together all night. Wiggins was awful.

    Agree with your assesment of the team but wiggins awful!?!? Cleared one off the line and barely got beaten all game.

    Dodgy start to the season but no idea what you were watching - looking like getting back to his best imo
    Wiggins was awful as many others have said and he was worse saturday....err what game were you watching
  • I think wiggy was ok.The right winger got a lot of the ball.He did ok
  • I thought Wiggins was solid last night. Wouldn't describe him as awful. Looks like a few have found their scapegoat for the season.
  • edited October 2014
    cabbles said:

    I would also like to point out that a lot of people around me were getting wound up by the fact that Henderson kept putting his goal kicks and clearances over on the left to Cousins who was trying to flick them on. People kept saying he should be mixing it up, it's too obvious etc. I think they were wrong and this was another example of BP's tactical game plan.

    If you look at it, in the centre up top we had Tuc with Moussa in behind. In most circumstances, the 1 or 2 forwards have their backs to goal and are jumping from a standing start. You have to have exceptional aerial prowess to be able to do anything in that situation as a forward (like Kermorgant). Those two don't. Add to the fact that Mills & Dervite would've gobbled up anything like that it would've been a wasted ball. In addition, if Mills & Dervite did win the ball, they make a headed clearance into the area of the pitch I think Bob wants us to spend as little time in as possible, because it involves winning the 2nd ball using either Buyens or JJ. We know that the midfield scrap isn't either of their 'bags', and risked getting overrun in this area.

    However, an angled clearance from Henderson to the left, to Cousins who at least shows willingness to jump (It was never going to be Bulot was it), has a number of advantages. It stops everything happening I have listed above, and if Cousins does win it (he has a good chance as he was of a similar size to McNaughton), then it means Mills & Dervite then have to turn if the ball has gone in behind them, or at least Moussa and Tuc get it to feet.

    Finally, if McNaugton wins it, chances are that close to the byline, the ball doesn't go back into the centre of the pitch and goes off for a throw in.

    I might be looking at this from too much of a microscopic view, but again I thought it was worth pointing out what I feel was clever play from Peeters, and an answer to all those who were grumbling every time it happened last night.

    I'm glad someone else can see what we're doing & why.
    We did the same under Powell, when Hamer used to aim for Jackson on the left.
    If the keeper kicks it off, it's not because his distribution is poor. It's because he's trying to put it on a player's head, who's standing on the touchline. If it goes off so what, they can't score from a throw-in on the half way line.
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