What he said was people with HIV should not be allowed to come and drain the NHS, they should have health insurance. I think UKIP are brilliant, a breath of fresh air, a release from the stench of the Con/Lib/Lab triplets.
Let`s face it, the other 3 are in a state of panic, their cosy little clique is being torn apart and they don`t like it one little bit. They haven`t got a clue how to react. Ahhh poor little souls. All they have left are lies, they have nothing to say of any substance hence the" Vote UKIP get Miliband" crap that just spews from the mouths of the tories almost on autopilot.
They just don`t understand the basic connection between their lies, deceipt, smears,etc towards UKIP and the growing support of UKIP. With their pathetic, selfish, immature behaviour they are driving huge swathes of people to UKIP.
The biggest recruiting tool for UKIP is..............Con/Lib/Lab! Hahaha keep up the good work!
I have followed UKIP closely hence why I placed the bet. There are now 7 months until the general election. In that time I expect more dirt slinging at Farage from both the mainstream press and political parties. These political parties don't seem to understand that the entire reason they are voting UKIP is because they feel that the current status quo is mugging them off daily. The more the status quo say don't vote for that guy, the more that they will think its a good idea to, as a kind of quasi protest vote/ wanting change.
Farage personifies it. Farage has the common touch, I'm not saying you have to go to a comprehensive to have that, none of the major political leaders have, but you don't have to be so out of touch with the voters you represent. Farage in my opinion is not.
As for all the policies that Farage keeps announcing such as no HIV people coming in and people thinking that will be his undoing, the opposite, policies like that are going to prove very popular. Its all fine when you're sitting there with the fire on in front of the fire reading your Guardian and laughing at the latest Charlie Brooker critique of right wingers with a gin and tonic in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other, and don't get me wrong, for a 23 year old I am perfectly well off, and I don't have issues with what UKIP voters have issues with, but if you stop and listen you will see that what they complain about are genuinely held grievances and UKIP are the first party in ages to actually represent the white working class in the UK.
Blame new Labour or whatever you want but there has been a vacuum for the white working class vote that has been going either slightly to the Tories (very slightly) as the strongest party on immigration (strongest as in a kitten next to a mouse) some has stuck with labour but is moaning about it (harking back to the unions, Labour have been dining off their 1940s-1980s image, New Labour has effectively managed to retain its base whilst appealing to new people with new labour, but that traditional base is now haemmoraging) and an awful lot of them, just don't vote. UKIP are a party that will take the working class vote and the slightly older eurosceptic and immigration wary vote, and I think they will wreak havoc next year.
And yet the union dominated 70s are sill frequently brought up and used as a stick to beat the Labour party with by right wingers. You can't have it both ways.
You and others keep on about "representing the white working class" like absolutely everyone is in agreement with him, yet this forum clearly shows they are not. I, like many others, agree that the present situation is no longer acceptable, I don't think that a party with half a dozen clear polices, most of which are about dealing with the symptoms rather than the illness, is the answer.
As buckshee says, there is no party to represent a lot of people's views.
If it's any consolation, I was a Thatcherite Tory when I was 23. I then observed what they actually did for a number of years and realised the error of my ways.
Well of course they use the unions as a stick to beat labour with, they are trying to appeal to their voters. There's no point in appealing to people who will never vote for you.
Very few die hard unionists will vote conservative, so sure up your support by reminding everyone of how labour is in the pockets of the unions, the same way you can sure up labour support by pointing out the social desolation that the conservatives create.
I was saying that UKIP support the white working class better than any other party, not the whole white working class. Labour and Conservatives offer things around the fringes, UKIP offer a lot more.
As for the patronising 23 year old comment, I wont rise to it. I'll let the 25% polling UKIP have this morning be the evidence for my views rather than patronising you.
I feel I should state again, I am not a UKIP supporter, I never have been and these days I don't really get excited about any of the parties... Its just worth understanding peoples points of views that are not your own rather than writing them off as racists and idiots (not that I've seen you do that, just people in general)
All I was offering was my opinion for their appeal.
It`s not voting just to get back at them though is it? It`s voting for something new, something different. A large percentage of people who are now voting UKIP have never voted before or have not voted for a very long time. They now feel like they have something to believe in.
I agree E-Cafc, UKIP has raised issues that people felt unable to speak about and in that respect the major parties have ignored and failed a section of the electorate for far too many years. I was born and bred poor working class and am very conscious that I escaped the poverty that remained the fate of many others. But if I thought for one minute that UKIP will improve the lives of the disenfranchised, I would consider voting for it. But I fear all it will do is unleash pent up hatred and resentments and that will be to the detriment of everyone of us.
I have followed UKIP closely hence why I placed the bet. There are now 7 months until the general election. In that time I expect more dirt slinging at Farage from both the mainstream press and political parties. These political parties don't seem to understand that the entire reason they are voting UKIP is because they feel that the current status quo is mugging them off daily. The more the status quo say don't vote for that guy, the more that they will think its a good idea to, as a kind of quasi protest vote/ wanting change.
Farage personifies it. Farage has the common touch, I'm not saying you have to go to a comprehensive to have that, none of the major political leaders have, but you don't have to be so out of touch with the voters you represent. Farage in my opinion is not.
As for all the policies that Farage keeps announcing such as no HIV people coming in and people thinking that will be his undoing, the opposite, policies like that are going to prove very popular. Its all fine when you're sitting there with the fire on in front of the fire reading your Guardian and laughing at the latest Charlie Brooker critique of right wingers with a gin and tonic in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other, and don't get me wrong, for a 23 year old I am perfectly well off, and I don't have issues with what UKIP voters have issues with, but if you stop and listen you will see that what they complain about are genuinely held grievances and UKIP are the first party in ages to actually represent the white working class in the UK.
Blame new Labour or whatever you want but there has been a vacuum for the white working class vote that has been going either slightly to the Tories (very slightly) as the strongest party on immigration (strongest as in a kitten next to a mouse) some has stuck with labour but is moaning about it (harking back to the unions, Labour have been dining off their 1940s-1980s image, New Labour has effectively managed to retain its base whilst appealing to new people with new labour, but that traditional base is now haemmoraging) and an awful lot of them, just don't vote. UKIP are a party that will take the working class vote and the slightly older eurosceptic and immigration wary vote, and I think they will wreak havoc next year.
And yet the union dominated 70s are sill frequently brought up and used as a stick to beat the Labour party with by right wingers. You can't have it both ways.
You and others keep on about "representing the white working class" like absolutely everyone is in agreement with him, yet this forum clearly shows they are not. I, like many others, agree that the present situation is no longer acceptable, I don't think that a party with half a dozen clear polices, most of which are about dealing with the symptoms rather than the illness, is the answer.
As buckshee says, there is no party to represent a lot of people's views.
If it's any consolation, I was a Thatcherite Tory when I was 23. I then observed what they actually did for a number of years and realised the error of my ways.
Well of course they use the unions as a stick to beat labour with, they are trying to appeal to their voters. There's no point in appealing to people who will never vote for you.
Very few die hard unionists will vote conservative, so sure up your support by reminding everyone of how labour is in the pockets of the unions, the same way you can sure up labour support by pointing out the social desolation that the conservatives create.
I was saying that UKIP support the white working class better than any other party, not the whole white working class. Labour and Conservatives offer things around the fringes, UKIP offer a lot more.
As for the patronising 23 year old comment, I wont rise to it. I'll let the 25% polling UKIP have this morning be the evidence for my views rather than patronising you.
I feel I should state again, I am not a UKIP supporter, I never have been and these days I don't really get excited about any of the parties... Its just worth understanding peoples points of views that are not your own rather than writing them off as racists and idiots (not that I've seen you do that, just people in general)
All I was offering was my opinion for their appeal.
Yes it was patronising, apologies for that. It wasn't entirely aimed at you, I was just trying to make a point about evolving and learning as you grow older, rather than making your mind up when you are young and then sticking with it, whatever evidence presents itself to you in the intervening years.
Muhammad Ali once said something like "A man who thinks the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years".
Oh - and I am wondering who has flagged two of my posts for stating facts? Come out come out whoever you are...
Carswell was (reportedly) a popular and hard working MP after he was elected as a Tory .. supposedly this led to him garnering a lot of good will amongst his constituents. I wonder what the result would have been had UKIP parachuted in an outsider. In other words, did many of the Clacton electorate vote for 'the man' as much as for 'the party' ?
It`s not voting just to get back at them though is it? It`s voting for something new, something different. A large percentage of people who are now voting UKIP have never voted before or have not voted for a very long time. They now feel like they have something to believe in.
I was being flippant, and quite frankly if ukip get people energised, voting and clued up on politics and how they want to be governed that's a great thing. The main parties seemed to be stuck in the middle and stagnating and give the impression of being stuck in Westminster with no idea of what people actually want. That or they have the arrogance to believe that they are an elite rather than just the representatives we decide we want to stand on our behalf.
That said I think that farage is an utter fraud and although he knows what people want he has no interest or ability to offer any form of solution. He's stirring it up and loving it, but can't be trusted
Even taking into consideration the general dissolutionment with politics that currently grips the country and the feeling that the three main parties need a good kicking. What astonishes and slightly frightens me is that so many people seem prepared to nail their colours to the mast of a party that really doesn't have any cohesive policies or more than a handful of candidates that are even remotely likely to be of the quality to sit it the Commons.
It might well be that UKIP wreak havoc next May and perhaps that is a good thing and is what is needed to shake up the creaking left and right parties but the thought of anything more is a terrifying prospect.
Even taking into consideration the general dissolutionment with politics that currently grips the country and the feeling that the three main parties need a good kicking. What astonishes and slightly frightens me is that so many people seem prepared to nail their colours to the mast of a party that really doesn't have any cohesive policies or more than a handful of candidates that are even remotely likely to be of the quality to sit it the Commons.
It might well be that UKIP wreak havoc next May and perhaps that is a good thing and is what is needed to shake up the creaking left and right parties but the thought of anything more is a terrifying prospect.
As I have said on here before the UKIP emergence put the Tory press in a very awkward position.
Normally they would spend the next 8 months hammering the shit out of Red Ed and Nick-Nice-but-Dim - although they are quite capable of fucking it themselves - but with UKIP rising then they now have to bash them up too.
The Tory press may attack Labour policies but they will have a massive attack on UKIP prospective MPs, you can bet your bollocks that CCHQ will be rummaging round the personal histories of every UKIP candidate.
They will, in fact, already be sitting on a huge trove of research on the UKIP people - but won't release it until at least April next year.
It would not surprise me if a smart guy like Lynton Crosby had even planted a couple of Manchurian candidates amongst the UKIP bunch and have them primed to explode next April.
Even taking into consideration the general dissolutionment with politics that currently grips the country and the feeling that the three main parties need a good kicking. What astonishes and slightly frightens me is that so many people seem prepared to nail their colours to the mast of a party that really doesn't have any cohesive policies or more than a handful of candidates that are even remotely likely to be of the quality to sit it the Commons.
It might well be that UKIP wreak havoc next May and perhaps that is a good thing and is what is needed to shake up the creaking left and right parties but the thought of anything more is a terrifying prospect.
As I have said on here before the UKIP emergence put the Tory press in a very awkward position.
Normally they would spend the next 8 months hammering the shit out of Red Ed and Nick-Nice-but-Dim - although they are quite capable of fucking it themselves - but with UKIP rising then they now have to bash them up too.
The Tory press may attack Labour policies but they will have a massive attack on UKIP prospective MPs, you can bet your bollocks that CCHQ will be rummaging round the personal histories of every UKIP candidate.
They will, in fact, already be sitting on a huge trove of research on the UKIP people - but won't release it until at least April next year.
It would not surprise me if a smart guy like Lynton Crosby had even planted a couple of Manchurian candidates amongst the UKIP bunch and have them primed to explode next April.
What has the fact that candidates come from Manchester got to do with it? ;-)
I've just looked at UKIP's website and their policies are quite clear and for me there is hardly anything to dislike.
It is no good looking at a site such as the New Statesman for UKIP policies, have a look at UKIP's own website.
This This This.
So many people quote UKIP 'policies' which have no truth to them at all
I have had a look, there isn't much substance there though. Other than close the borders, get out of the EU it does not offer much other than flippant sound bites.
It's quite right that people (both here and across the country) should not patronise or insult those who support or sympathise with UKIP. Cuts both ways though. Look at what was written earlier above:
Its all fine when you're sitting there in front of the fire reading your Guardian and laughing at the latest Charlie Brooker critique of right wingers with a gin and tonic in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other, and don't get me wrong, for a 23 year old I am perfectly well off, and I don't have issues with what UKIP voters have issues with, but if you stop and listen you will see that what they complain about are genuinely held grievances and UKIP are the first party in ages to actually represent the white working class in the UK.
Not picking on the poster who wrote that, because I've seen that sort of stuff on here before. Just to say, if anyone thinks Elibank Road, Eltham, where I was raised and where I return to 5-6 time a year to see my Mum, is "middle class", well...and as for the Guardian I read it because its got higher standards than other papers and is capable of seeing and printing the other side of the argument. I don't think of myself as left wing, I'm in a political position that doesn't seem to exist here but does all over Northern Europe - the centre. And yes I do take an interest in politics, because I think it's my duty , my father fought in the war so that I have the right to choose and participate. There's nothing clever about saying "I don't vote" or "I'm not interested". Not if you come on here to discuss politics, anyway. I think Russell Brand is a self-serving knob.
So yes, let's have less of the patronising and stereotyping. From both sides.
The coalition is partly responsible for the rise of Ukip. Those who voted conservative in the last general election feel the pre election promises have not been fulfilled (Douglas Carswell). Much of the conservative right wing agenda has been thwarted by the Lib. Dems whose electorate are usually to the left of centre see their party in government with the Conservative’s. A recipe for mass disillusionment with the ruling politicians. History is repeating for the Liberals who joined a coalition with the Conservative’s in the late 1920’s and suffered a huge defeat at the next general election only recovering in recent times. Weather Ukip’s support will wane at the next general election is debatable but Carswell appears to be a far more able and sensible politician than Farage and could attract more disillusioned voters to Ukip.
It's quite right that people (both here and across the country) should not patronise or insult those who support or sympathise with UKIP. Cuts both ways though. Look at what was written earlier above:
Its all fine when you're sitting there in front of the fire reading your Guardian and laughing at the latest Charlie Brooker critique of right wingers with a gin and tonic in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other, and don't get me wrong, for a 23 year old I am perfectly well off, and I don't have issues with what UKIP voters have issues with, but if you stop and listen you will see that what they complain about are genuinely held grievances and UKIP are the first party in ages to actually represent the white working class in the UK.
Not picking on the poster who wrote that, because I've seen that sort of stuff on here before. Just to say, if anyone thinks Elibank Road, Eltham, where I was raised and where I return to 5-6 time a year to see my Mum, is "middle class", well...and as for the Guardian I read it because its got higher standards than other papers and is capable of seeing and printing the other side of the argument. I don't think of myself as left wing, I'm in a political position that doesn't seem to exist here but does all over Northern Europe - the centre. And yes I do take an interest in politics, because I think it's my duty , my father fought in the war so that I have the right to choose and participate. There's nothing clever about saying "I don't vote" or "I'm not interested". Not if you come on here to discuss politics, anyway. I think Russell Brand is a self-serving knob.
So yes, let's have less of the patronising and stereotyping. From both sides.
I was more interested in how we are actually holding on to The Guardian in that scenario... :-o
Sorry for my rant above. Now that I've got that off my chest, I would like to return to a proper debate.
I would like to ask all UKIP-inclined people on here, a question I've asked here before.(And didn't get any straight answer).
I understand that many people think politicians are out of touch with the problems of their daily lives. So they are inclined to vote UKIP, whose big promise is, get out of the EU. OK so here's my question to them:
What are the top three things in your daily life which most piss you off, which you think politicians should resolve? Other than "too many immigrants". And how do you believe leaving the EU will make those things better?
Carswell was (reportedly) a popular and hard working MP after he was elected as a Tory .. supposedly this led to him garnering a lot of good will amongst his constituents. I wonder what the result would have been had UKIP parachuted in an outsider. In other words, did many of the Clacton electorate vote for 'the man' as much as for 'the party' ?
I'm not a UKIP supporter but I thought Carswell came across well on Andrew Marr.
Sorry for my rant above. Now that I've got that off my chest, I would like to return to a proper debate.
I would like to ask all UKIP-inclined people on here, a question I've asked here before.(And didn't get any straight answer).
I understand that many people think politicians are out of touch with the problems of their daily lives. So they are inclined to vote UKIP, whose big promise is, get out of the EU. OK so here's my question to them:
What are the top three things in your daily life which most piss you off, which you think politicians should resolve? Other than "too many immigrants". And how do you believe leaving the EU will make those things better?
Without going into too much depth (although I could)
Import tariffs, keeps Africa poor, as well as flooding African markets with cheap grain when we have too much of a surplus, selling it artificially cheap which affects the domestic market. Flood the market with grain, drive the domestic farmers out of business, then next year when there are less farmers, they are screwed.
We can not buy from the most efficient producer necessarily (ie using sugar beet instead of sugar cane due to high import tariffs). Tariffs are bad in a globalised economy, there is next to no excuse for them in my opinion.
This then goes further when it comes to looking at emerging economies and affects how we can trade with them, Brail, India, China, Malaysia, a lot of developing economies which we could trade with, it becomes more difficult. Effectively protectionism at a national level has turned into protectionism at a continental level, I do not agree with that.
I believe with decent free trade, we could help lift Africa, and actually import a lot more from them, as well as opening ourselves to exporting to them to.
If we could reform the EU, to reduce political integration, and increase free trade with THE WORLD and not just Europe, I would be entirely in favour of it. As it is I am Euro sceptic, but not wanting to be out of the EU by any stretch. I know people say we can not pick and choose what we want out of the EU, but I think we will see in years to come the dynamic of the EU shifting away from a political union and more towards a large trading bloc, which will hopefully expand.
The EU needs to change, and rapidly, but we are better off in it than out.
Sorry for my rant above. Now that I've got that off my chest, I would like to return to a proper debate.
I would like to ask all UKIP-inclined people on here, a question I've asked here before.(And didn't get any straight answer).
I understand that many people think politicians are out of touch with the problems of their daily lives. So they are inclined to vote UKIP, whose big promise is, get out of the EU. OK so here's my question to them:
What are the top three things in your daily life which most piss you off, which you think politicians should resolve? Other than "too many immigrants". And how do you believe leaving the EU will make those things better?
I won't be voting UKIP come next May - however, you are asking a closed question Prague.
To a lot of people "Too many immigrants" is the most important matter.
It effects their everyday lives, from the perceived benefit and NHS tourists, to the lack of school spaces, lack of jobs, lack of wage rises, congested roads and lack of adequate and affordable housing.
What astounds me is that so many anti UKIP people don't seem to appreciate this and come out with the same old 'racist' rant.
The main parties need to show a credible and realistic answer to ensure these cross party defectors come back to the fold.
Sorry for my rant above. Now that I've got that off my chest, I would like to return to a proper debate.
I would like to ask all UKIP-inclined people on here, a question I've asked here before.(And didn't get any straight answer).
I understand that many people think politicians are out of touch with the problems of their daily lives. So they are inclined to vote UKIP, whose big promise is, get out of the EU. OK so here's my question to them:
What are the top three things in your daily life which most piss you off, which you think politicians should resolve? Other than "too many immigrants". And how do you believe leaving the EU will make those things better?
Without going into too much depth (although I could)
Import tariffs, keeps Africa poor, as well as flooding African markets with cheap grain when we have too much of a surplus, selling it artificially cheap which affects the domestic market. Flood the market with grain, drive the domestic farmers out of business, then next year when there are less farmers, they are screwed.
We can not buy from the most efficient producer necessarily (ie using sugar beet instead of sugar cane due to high import tariffs). Tariffs are bad in a globalised economy, there is next to no excuse for them in my opinion.
This then goes further when it comes to looking at emerging economies and affects how we can trade with them, Brail, India, China, Malaysia, a lot of developing economies which we could trade with, it becomes more difficult. Effectively protectionism at a national level has turned into protectionism at a continental level, I do not agree with that.
I believe with decent free trade, we could help lift Africa, and actually import a lot more from them, as well as opening ourselves to exporting to them to.
If we could reform the EU, to reduce political integration, and increase free trade with THE WORLD and not just Europe, I would be entirely in favour of it. As it is I am Euro sceptic, but not wanting to be out of the EU by any stretch. I know people say we can not pick and choose what we want out of the EU, but I think we will see in years to come the dynamic of the EU shifting away from a political union and more towards a large trading bloc, which will hopefully expand.
The EU needs to change, and rapidly, but we are better off in it than out.
One of the problems of leaving the E.U. is according to a recent report by – I think it was the institute of Directors or the CBI was that separate trade agreements would have to be negotiated with 28 nations all with vested interests. I think Norway has a trading agreement with the EU but they have to pay for the concession and have no input into EU policy.
Sorry for my rant above. Now that I've got that off my chest, I would like to return to a proper debate.
I would like to ask all UKIP-inclined people on here, a question I've asked here before.(And didn't get any straight answer).
I understand that many people think politicians are out of touch with the problems of their daily lives. So they are inclined to vote UKIP, whose big promise is, get out of the EU. OK so here's my question to them:
What are the top three things in your daily life which most piss you off, which you think politicians should resolve? Other than "too many immigrants". And how do you believe leaving the EU will make those things better?
I won't be voting UKIP come next May - however, you are asking a closed question Prague.
To a lot of people "Too many immigrants" is the most important matter.
It effects their everyday lives, from the perceived benefit and NHS tourists, to the lack of school spaces, lack of jobs, lack of wage rises, congested roads and lack of adequate and affordable housing.
What astounds me is that so many anti UKIP people don't seem to appreciate this and come out with the same old 'racist' rant.
The main parties need to show a credible and realistic answer to ensure these cross party defectors come back to the fold.
I understand exactly what Prague is asking. How many people are directly affected by "NHS tourists, [to] the lack of school spaces, lack of jobs, lack of wage rises, congested roads and lack of adequate and affordable housing", and how many are reading about them in the paper and getting into a froth about it, even though it has no direct effect on their lives and in many cases actually has nothing to do with immigration other than said paper telling them it has? In some cases it may be a factor, but it is by no means the sole cause that some would have us believe...
Farage has repeatedly stated he is emulating the lib dems strategy (not policies) with local and euro election success followed by Westminster. Front page headline on the Sunday Times suggests that they will win 25 seats or 4% of the MPs. That's it! It is the politics after May 2015 and the election after next where there might be shifts but nothing happening too soon... I find that reassuring. And also wonder why any party (except the tories) would shift position or give them any attentuon. Essentially this is a conservative split by another name and labour and lib dems are right to ignore - certainly at this stage. I welcome the debate and feel the lib dems are talking sense but will be wounded for their part in the coalition. As above, the most important and interesting part for me is the next coalition government not UKIP.
I can tell you getting a visa for a spouse or a child to the UK is a nightmare for a lot of people. I have friends with wives and children in Asia that have been refused a number of times.
Sorry for my rant above. Now that I've got that off my chest, I would like to return to a proper debate.
I would like to ask all UKIP-inclined people on here, a question I've asked here before.(And didn't get any straight answer).
I understand that many people think politicians are out of touch with the problems of their daily lives. So they are inclined to vote UKIP, whose big promise is, get out of the EU. OK so here's my question to them:
What are the top three things in your daily life which most piss you off, which you think politicians should resolve? Other than "too many immigrants". And how do you believe leaving the EU will make those things better?
Have you worked ovef hefe in the last few years Prague? Have you been made redundant over here in the last few years? Have you tried looking for a job and all there really is for the working class is Agency work with no real future or jobs that offer 0 contract hours. In my road alone 3 houses have at least 8 eastern europeans living in them who share rent etc CAN afford to take on Agency work and jobs which offer 0 contract hours. Hope someone who agrees with me can put it across much better than me .
From an article by B. Meaden....'For the people who hold the real power, i.e. the people who own all the money and property, UKIP is an absolute gift. It holds the electorate’s attention by obsessing about immigration and Europe, whilst never proposing anything that would cause a billionaire to lose a night’s sleep. Indeed, if we look past immigration and Europe we find that UKIP’s policies, like a flat rate tax, privatisation, fracking, massive deregulation and a reduced welfare state are just what a billionaire would order.
The British, or more particularly English, establishment has a long history of smothering and subsuming opposition, often using fear tactics to deter support for anything that looks like radical change. Now, the modern establishment can use the media to promote their preferred alternative, and freeze out the undesirables. There are parties and movements around that present a genuine alternative and proposal for radical change. Greens and Plaid Cymru, for example, have four MPs between them and propose banking reform, public ownership of energy and railways, a Citizen’s Income, etc. In comparison to UKIP, with one MP (and not even a new one), they get very little media coverage, and that suits those who support the status quo.
Yet again the establishment has shown its skill at defusing public anger or diverting it into a relatively harmless channel. They have in an act of genius given us a party of protest funded by millionaires and led by a Thatcherite former City broker who’s been an MEP for fifteen years. Panic over, the revolution has been cancelled. Again.'
Comments
Let`s face it, the other 3 are in a state of panic, their cosy little clique is being torn apart and they don`t like it one little bit. They haven`t got a clue how to react. Ahhh poor little souls. All they have left are lies, they have nothing to say of any substance hence the" Vote UKIP get Miliband" crap that just spews from the mouths of the tories almost on autopilot.
They just don`t understand the basic connection between their lies, deceipt, smears,etc towards UKIP and the growing support of UKIP. With their pathetic, selfish, immature behaviour they are driving huge swathes of people to UKIP.
The biggest recruiting tool for UKIP is..............Con/Lib/Lab! Hahaha keep up the good work!
Very few die hard unionists will vote conservative, so sure up your support by reminding everyone of how labour is in the pockets of the unions, the same way you can sure up labour support by pointing out the social desolation that the conservatives create.
I was saying that UKIP support the white working class better than any other party, not the whole white working class. Labour and Conservatives offer things around the fringes, UKIP offer a lot more.
As for the patronising 23 year old comment, I wont rise to it. I'll let the 25% polling UKIP have this morning be the evidence for my views rather than patronising you.
I feel I should state again, I am not a UKIP supporter, I never have been and these days I don't really get excited about any of the parties... Its just worth understanding peoples points of views that are not your own rather than writing them off as racists and idiots (not that I've seen you do that, just people in general)
All I was offering was my opinion for their appeal.
Muhammad Ali once said something like "A man who thinks the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years".
Oh - and I am wondering who has flagged two of my posts for stating facts? Come out come out whoever you are...
In other words, did many of the Clacton electorate vote for 'the man' as much as for 'the party' ?
That said I think that farage is an utter fraud and although he knows what people want he has no interest or ability to offer any form of solution. He's stirring it up and loving it, but can't be trusted
It might well be that UKIP wreak havoc next May and perhaps that is a good thing and is what is needed to shake up the creaking left and right parties but the thought of anything more is a terrifying prospect.
Normally they would spend the next 8 months hammering the shit out of Red Ed and Nick-Nice-but-Dim - although they are quite capable of fucking it themselves - but with UKIP rising then they now have to bash them up too.
The Tory press may attack Labour policies but they will have a massive attack on UKIP prospective MPs, you can bet your bollocks that CCHQ will be rummaging round the personal histories of every UKIP candidate.
They will, in fact, already be sitting on a huge trove of research on the UKIP people - but won't release it until at least April next year.
It would not surprise me if a smart guy like Lynton Crosby had even planted a couple of Manchurian candidates amongst the UKIP bunch and have them primed to explode next April.
Its all fine when you're sitting there in front of the fire reading your Guardian and laughing at the latest Charlie Brooker critique of right wingers with a gin and tonic in one hand and a glass of champagne in the other, and don't get me wrong, for a 23 year old I am perfectly well off, and I don't have issues with what UKIP voters have issues with, but if you stop and listen you will see that what they complain about are genuinely held grievances and UKIP are the first party in ages to actually represent the white working class in the UK.
Not picking on the poster who wrote that, because I've seen that sort of stuff on here before. Just to say, if anyone thinks Elibank Road, Eltham, where I was raised and where I return to 5-6 time a year to see my Mum, is "middle class", well...and as for the Guardian I read it because its got higher standards than other papers and is capable of seeing and printing the other side of the argument. I don't think of myself as left wing, I'm in a political position that doesn't seem to exist here but does all over Northern Europe - the centre. And yes I do take an interest in politics, because I think it's my duty , my father fought in the war so that I have the right to choose and participate. There's nothing clever about saying "I don't vote" or "I'm not interested". Not if you come on here to discuss politics, anyway. I think Russell Brand is a self-serving knob.
So yes, let's have less of the patronising and stereotyping. From both sides.
I reckon a fair few would vote for that..
I would like to ask all UKIP-inclined people on here, a question I've asked here before.(And didn't get any straight answer).
I understand that many people think politicians are out of touch with the problems of their daily lives. So they are inclined to vote UKIP, whose big promise is, get out of the EU. OK so here's my question to them:
What are the top three things in your daily life which most piss you off, which you think politicians should resolve? Other than "too many immigrants". And how do you believe leaving the EU will make those things better?
Import tariffs, keeps Africa poor, as well as flooding African markets with cheap grain when we have too much of a surplus, selling it artificially cheap which affects the domestic market. Flood the market with grain, drive the domestic farmers out of business, then next year when there are less farmers, they are screwed.
We can not buy from the most efficient producer necessarily (ie using sugar beet instead of sugar cane due to high import tariffs). Tariffs are bad in a globalised economy, there is next to no excuse for them in my opinion.
This then goes further when it comes to looking at emerging economies and affects how we can trade with them, Brail, India, China, Malaysia, a lot of developing economies which we could trade with, it becomes more difficult. Effectively protectionism at a national level has turned into protectionism at a continental level, I do not agree with that.
I believe with decent free trade, we could help lift Africa, and actually import a lot more from them, as well as opening ourselves to exporting to them to.
If we could reform the EU, to reduce political integration, and increase free trade with THE WORLD and not just Europe, I would be entirely in favour of it. As it is I am Euro sceptic, but not wanting to be out of the EU by any stretch. I know people say we can not pick and choose what we want out of the EU, but I think we will see in years to come the dynamic of the EU shifting away from a political union and more towards a large trading bloc, which will hopefully expand.
The EU needs to change, and rapidly, but we are better off in it than out.
To a lot of people "Too many immigrants" is the most important matter.
It effects their everyday lives, from the perceived benefit and NHS tourists, to the lack of school spaces, lack of jobs, lack of wage rises, congested roads and lack of adequate and affordable housing.
What astounds me is that so many anti UKIP people don't seem to appreciate this and come out with the same old 'racist' rant.
The main parties need to show a credible and realistic answer to ensure these cross party defectors come back to the fold.
Essentially this is a conservative split by another name and labour and lib dems are right to ignore - certainly at this stage.
I welcome the debate and feel the lib dems are talking sense but will be wounded for their part in the coalition. As above, the most important and interesting part for me is the next coalition government not UKIP.
In my road alone 3 houses have at least 8 eastern europeans living in them who share rent etc CAN afford to take on Agency work and jobs which offer 0 contract hours.
Hope someone who agrees with me can put it across much better than me .
The British, or more particularly English, establishment has a long history of smothering and subsuming opposition, often using fear tactics to deter support for anything that looks like radical change. Now, the modern establishment can use the media to promote their preferred alternative, and freeze out the undesirables. There are parties and movements around that present a genuine alternative and proposal for radical change. Greens and Plaid Cymru, for example, have four MPs between them and propose banking reform, public ownership of energy and railways, a Citizen’s Income, etc. In comparison to UKIP, with one MP (and not even a new one), they get very little media coverage, and that suits those who support the status quo.
Yet again the establishment has shown its skill at defusing public anger or diverting it into a relatively harmless channel. They have in an act of genius given us a party of protest funded by millionaires and led by a Thatcherite former City broker who’s been an MEP for fifteen years. Panic over, the revolution has been cancelled. Again.'