"Charlton did a number on us Hughton style. Was inevitable from minute one. For all our possession we were lacking someone who could create a chance for themselves. This is a worry as redmonds crossing is inconsistent (but better last night with 3-4 good ones out of 10) so we can't rely on the odd few that are good crosses. Grabban is not going to be good enough for full season as starting striker and I hope hooper pulls his finger out soon as he will create chances himself
Jerome was bossed by bikey, a real battle for him. Wishes he'd not kept feigning injury from flailing arms. 3 times in one game is embarrassing.
Charlton are a very good defensive unit and many teams will be done by them in the same way.
Turner looked great all match
Subs were too late and tettey should have stayed on.
All in all great possession football and we played pretty well, but it's what you do with it that counts. Forget that one and move on to Saturday.
How on earth we didn't get a pen?! Bloody ridiculous reffing."
"Have calmed down a bit now after one if the most frustrating games in living memory. Charlton are a horrible, cynical little team who came and made no attempt whatsoever to win so to let them sneak off with 3 points is galling. The Championship should be embarrassed that they remain unbeaten 10 games in.
Ref was terrible although at the time my reaction was that their keeper must have been fouled the way he went down. He missed a couple of blatant elbows by their centre backs though and a couple of good handball penalty shouts.
All in all hard to be too downbeat in the cold light of day given we are still top and played well enough to have won the game comfortably. We have to stop throwing away points against crap teams at home though. We should be 5 or 6 points clear of this league really but instead we have the likes of Watford and Derby clinging to our coat takes due to our last three poor home results."
Did that person support Sheffield Wednesday last season I wonder? That level of bitterness sounds mighty familiar...
Two things with that... 1) It's clearly not deliberate handball, Bikey's arm is out for balance before the ball is struck and the ball is hit too hard and from too close to Bikey to give him any chance to get out of the way. No Pen.
2) Henderson had it covered.
So what if the game was 99% attack vs defence, the defence won and for the other 1% the less tested defence didn't do its job. That's football. The best team won. Tough titties carrot munchers.
Deliberate or not, and not being able to get your arm out of the way is irrelevant. If the arm is not by your side or in front of your body then it's handball. His is outstretched therefore a pen all day long and we got away with it. That's football as you say.
Let's face it, we've had plenty of luck this season with penalties against...
Two things with that... 1) It's clearly not deliberate handball, Bikey's arm is out for balance before the ball is struck and the ball is hit too hard and from too close to Bikey to give him any chance to get out of the way. No Pen.
2) Henderson had it covered.
So what if the game was 99% attack vs defence, the defence won and for the other 1% the less tested defence didn't do its job. That's football. The best team won. Tough titties carrot munchers.
Deliberate or not, and not being able to get your arm out of the way is irrelevant. If the arm is not by your side or in front of your body then it's handball. His is outstretched therefore a pen all day long and we got away with it. That's football as you say.
According to the laws of the game, if you move your hand towards the ball (deliberately or instinctively), it's termed "hand to ball" - handball.
If your hand does not move and the ball strikes your hand, it's referred to as "ball to hand" - no offence committed.
Clearly the ball struck the arm of Bikey from very close. The referees interpretation no doubt was "ball to hand" - no offence committed, no penalty.
The sorest of all sore losers that man is. 'No attempt to win the game' - not sure any team in the history of football has made no attempt to win the game. Sooner they look at their own failures rather than blaming the loss on the ref and our 'cynical tactics' the better.
"Charlton did a number on us Hughton style. Was inevitable from minute one. For all our possession we were lacking someone who could create a chance for themselves. This is a worry as redmonds crossing is inconsistent (but better last night with 3-4 good ones out of 10) so we can't rely on the odd few that are good crosses. Grabban is not going to be good enough for full season as starting striker and I hope hooper pulls his finger out soon as he will create chances himself
Jerome was bossed by bikey, a real battle for him. Wishes he'd not kept feigning injury from flailing arms. 3 times in one game is embarrassing.
Charlton are a very good defensive unit and many teams will be done by them in the same way.
Turner looked great all match
Subs were too late and tettey should have stayed on.
All in all great possession football and we played pretty well, but it's what you do with it that counts. Forget that one and move on to Saturday.
How on earth we didn't get a pen?! Bloody ridiculous reffing."
"Have calmed down a bit now after one if the most frustrating games in living memory. Charlton are a horrible, cynical little team who came and made no attempt whatsoever to win so to let them sneak off with 3 points is galling. The Championship should be embarrassed that they remain unbeaten 10 games in.
Ref was terrible although at the time my reaction was that their keeper must have been fouled the way he went down. He missed a couple of blatant elbows by their centre backs though and a couple of good handball penalty shouts.
All in all hard to be too downbeat in the cold light of day given we are still top and played well enough to have won the game comfortably. We have to stop throwing away points against crap teams at home though. We should be 5 or 6 points clear of this league really but instead we have the likes of Watford and Derby clinging to our coat takes due to our last three poor home results."
I must own up and thought we would lose last night, but when I saw Bikey easily take the ball off of Jerome in the area early on, I thought maybe, just maybe!
Massive defensive performance from us although I hope we attck Brum a bit more on Saturday.
Great goal from the skipper, but I thought he had a better chance just before that when we countered attacked and a shooting opportunity opened up for him but he chose to pass it wide to Cousins.
Unbeaten, 18 points in the bag, who'd of thought it!
Two things with that... 1) It's clearly not deliberate handball, Bikey's arm is out for balance before the ball is struck and the ball is hit too hard and from too close to Bikey to give him any chance to get out of the way. No Pen.
2) Henderson had it covered.
So what if the game was 99% attack vs defence, the defence won and for the other 1% the less tested defence didn't do its job. That's football. The best team won. Tough titties carrot munchers.
Deliberate or not, and not being able to get your arm out of the way is irrelevant. If the arm is not by your side or in front of your body then it's handball. His is outstretched therefore a pen all day long and we got away with it. That's football as you say.
According to the laws of the game, if you move your hand towards the ball (deliberately or instinctively), it's termed "hand to ball" - handball.
If your hand does not move and the ball strikes your hand, it's referred to as "ball to hand" - no offence committed.
Clearly the ball struck the arm of Bikey from very close. The referees interpretation no doubt was "ball to hand" - no offence committed, no penalty.
The handball laws aren't that simple anymore. Guidlines state that 'Ball to hand' can still be regarded as deliberate. It comes down to the Refs interpretation and discretion. As I alluded too, you now also consider the position of the arm when it was struck. Whether the position is "natural or unnatural" and how the arm came to be in that position. Bikeys arm was spread out to the side, not by his side, many would argue that's an unnatural position and a penalty the correct decision.
"A smaller club that was recently competing in League 1" is just how I would describe Norwich.
On average Norwich get 10k more fans at home than charlton and was very recently competing in the premier league so most would agree Charlton are a smaller club than Norwich.
Apart from your lousy grammar, MillwallFan, may I point out that your manager couldn't quite cope with being in the Premier League with Palace and tumbled headfirst in to the Toolbox. And your crowds are...? And your league position is...?
My original comment wasn't about Millwall, it was in response to people on here questioning the Norwich fans quote that he thinks Charlton are a smaller club than Norwich, which they are. We know what sized club we are.
"A smaller club that was recently competing in League 1" is just how I would describe Norwich.
On average Norwich get 10k more fans at home than charlton and was very recently competing in the premier league so most would agree Charlton are a smaller club than Norwich.
If that's that case then what are you lot to us? Microscopic?
Difference is we don't pretend to be a big club, and we don't care if people think we are or not. As the old saying goes, Millwall FC, biggest small club out there. Yeah, we get 10k at home, but people are a lot more interested in little old Millwall than they ever will be in Charlton.
Apart from your lousy grammar, MillwallFan, I wonder who these people interested in "little old Millwall" may be. The pond-life in Rotherhithe? Neanderthals in Bermondsey? Criminals in the Old Kent Road? Good books have been written about them all, yet I do wonder if you have actually learned to read, look or learn.
Ask fans from the likes of Leeds, Cardiff, Forest, plus the promoted teams, what the first fixture is that they look for when the fixtures come out. After their local derbies I'll bet Millwall away is the next one for a fair few. Now where do you reckon Charlton come in in that level of interest? Well down the pecking order. For whatever reason, Millwall is a more interesting day out than charlton. That's just a fact.
Anyway, don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into another Millwall one. Enjoy your moment, 10 games unbeaten is pretty impressive, although strange that the run hasn't even got you in a play off spot. There'll be plenty of twists and turns in this season yet, it's still early days. Can only see us struggling though to be honest, but hey ho, win or lose and all that.
Five games in and you lot were looking good...then you had to play someone outside of Blackpool, Fulham and Leeds with their Non league manager. Looking forward to taking 4/6 points off you lot this season - we are class and we are still a work in progress with many of the first team only played 10 games for CAFC...come January they will have 25 games under their belt and we should have another couple of players... Perhaps not too long before our gates climb again
If you dot beat us this season you never will. It's as simple as that. We are about as average and flat as we've ever been at the moment.
its a post-match Norwich - Charlton thread, please take other stuff to other threads. Any further Spanner related comments will be deleted from this one, ta
its a post-match Norwich - Charlton thread, please take other stuff to other threads. Any further Spanner related comments will be deleted from this one, ta
As has been alluded to several times in this thread 'what goes around comes around'. As well as specific instances already quoted, I recall a last minute equaliser at Norwich against us a couple of years back which was a clear foul on our keeper that was not given.
Last night it all went our way, so let's enjoy our moment and not have sour grapes (or carrots) like these poor sods when the boot is on the other foot.
Don't know about anyone else, but I'm not too precious about this big club/ small club thing. I honestly couldn't care less!
MillwallFan said, "Millwall is a more interesting day out than Charlton"
Well, I suppose that depends on how you interpret the word "interesting"
I think most away supporters will enjoy a Saturday afternoon at an hospitable Valley more than the warm welcome that your lot usually extends to visiting fans.
Fair to say that the natives are restless up here after last night. Quiet mutterings against Adams management, lack of a cutting edge, they're doomed they'll tell you. Nothing like some knee jerk reactions ffs. Was unfortunate enough to be in the narwich end last night.....they're a special lot. Their attitude was about as classless as that displayed by their team on the pitch. Cries of anti football aimed at the victors, bit of infighting, and surprise at the charlton fans celebrating at the final whistle 'look at them celebrating like they won the league' - just some polite applause next time please chaps.
Anyway, to the game. What a way to win three points. Back five were imperious, much man love to bikey and tbh. Igor puts in a hell of a shift though gets little service. The midfield done what was needed without excelling, though what do I know, I said shortly before jj scored that he should be hauled off as he looked fucked.
Penalty, after viewing it, would be peeved if not given to us but think it was the right decision. Not getting it was that little bit of luck we needed, plus the goal line clearance had me believing we might be on to something.
Locals at the end giving cries of anti-football, infighting, plus comments of the addicks celebrating 'like they've won the league' at the end - polite applause next time chaps.
And lastly, the young lad that came on at the end, he will be a handful coming on against tiring defences.
Seriously think we are just two players shy of something good this season. COYA
There is a pattern as to how others see us so far this season. As well as negative, and mean, and poor, we have also had average, will slip down the table, lucky to survive the game, refs in our favour...more or less a bit of everything negative. We remain unbeaten, I wish I could remember which perceptive Charlton Life poster described it as 'rope a dope' football, but there may be a lot more in that than meets the eye. I noticed with Riga, and now with Peeters their concern regarding the sheer weight of football matches we have to face. There has been talk of efficiency, talk of not running around like mad things and preserving energy for when it is needed. Perhaps the continental viewpoint regarding the astonishing physical demands has a lot of merit. Yes in the English game players are high energy, but maybe the argument goes that using up all that energy takes something away from those moments when the body has to execute a brilliant bit of control, a good turn, spotting the optimum pass, sprinting that 10 yards that makes the difference, hitting the target. It maybe that we mistake our seeming lack of fitness compared to others with an intelligent approach. Conceding possession can actually work for us in games providing it doesn't result in us going all headless chicken. If the opposition all want to write us off as basically crap let them, there are now ten teams in this league who won't do the double over us however much 'bigger' than us they may feel they are. Perhaps opponents need to look at their own play before criticising us, because that is what we're doing.
It was interesting that a minute before Jacko scored Norwich made two substitutions - both attacking players. So they would have weakened themselves somewhere at the back. I thought at the time that could be a mistake and so it proved.
On arrival at Norwich station went into the Complete Angler and had a couple of pints of Peroni Nastro.
So after having this Italian Lager, i then went and watched an Italian Master class in Defending from CAFC.
This beer was so expensive that i couldn't afford any food, so spent 90 mins biting my nails instead.
It is a fact that's if the canaries had scored in the 1st half, the outcome would have been different, but yet again a team who have more of the play, can't punish us.
Fanny F, said we have no Billy big Bolloxxx in our team, but we are the DOGS Bolloxxx when it's come to team work and Spirit.
The only down side was, could not hang around as had to leg it back to the station for 10 o'clock London train. so missed the players and Bob saluting our fans,
Guys,enjoy the ride and don't expect too much, remember it's the HOPE that kills you.
Two things with that... 1) It's clearly not deliberate handball, Bikey's arm is out for balance before the ball is struck and the ball is hit too hard and from too close to Bikey to give him any chance to get out of the way. No Pen.
2) Henderson had it covered.
So what if the game was 99% attack vs defence, the defence won and for the other 1% the less tested defence didn't do its job. That's football. The best team won. Tough titties carrot munchers.
Deliberate or not, and not being able to get your arm out of the way is irrelevant. If the arm is not by your side or in front of your body then it's handball. His is outstretched therefore a pen all day long and we got away with it. That's football as you say.
According to the laws of the game, if you move your hand towards the ball (deliberately or instinctively), it's termed "hand to ball" - handball.
If your hand does not move and the ball strikes your hand, it's referred to as "ball to hand" - no offence committed.
Clearly the ball struck the arm of Bikey from very close. The referees interpretation no doubt was "ball to hand" - no offence committed, no penalty.
The handball laws aren't that simple anymore. Guidlines state that 'Ball to hand' can still be regarded as deliberate. It comes down to the Refs interpretation and discretion. As I alluded too, you now also consider the position of the arm when it was struck. Whether the position is "natural or unnatural" and how the arm came to be in that position. Bikeys arm was spread out to the side, not by his side, many would argue that's an unnatural position and a penalty the correct decision.
I believe that the 'ball to hand' scenario can or will incur a penalty if it prevents a goal scoring opportunity. In the case of Bikey here, a lot of refs would have given the pen. As a manager of the team denied the penalty, I would have been furious and in need of anger management therapy. As a Charlton fan, I am f**king delighted that we weren't penalised!
Two things with that... 1) It's clearly not deliberate handball, Bikey's arm is out for balance before the ball is struck and the ball is hit too hard and from too close to Bikey to give him any chance to get out of the way. No Pen.
2) Henderson had it covered.
So what if the game was 99% attack vs defence, the defence won and for the other 1% the less tested defence didn't do its job. That's football. The best team won. Tough titties carrot munchers.
Deliberate or not, and not being able to get your arm out of the way is irrelevant. If the arm is not by your side or in front of your body then it's handball. His is outstretched therefore a pen all day long and we got away with it. That's football as you say.
According to the laws of the game, if you move your hand towards the ball (deliberately or instinctively), it's termed "hand to ball" - handball.
If your hand does not move and the ball strikes your hand, it's referred to as "ball to hand" - no offence committed.
Clearly the ball struck the arm of Bikey from very close. The referees interpretation no doubt was "ball to hand" - no offence committed, no penalty.
The handball laws aren't that simple anymore. Guidlines state that 'Ball to hand' can still be regarded as deliberate. It comes down to the Refs interpretation and discretion. As I alluded too, you now also consider the position of the arm when it was struck. Whether the position is "natural or unnatural" and how the arm came to be in that position. Bikeys arm was spread out to the side, not by his side, many would argue that's an unnatural position and a penalty the correct decision.
I believe that the 'ball to hand' scenario can or will incur a penalty if it prevents a goal scoring opportunity. In the case of Bikey here, a lot of refs would have given the pen. As a manager of the team denied the penalty, I would have been furious and in need of anger management therapy. As a Charlton fan, I am f**king delighted that we weren't penalised!
Doesn't it have to be a deliberate handball that significantly changes the direction of the ball?
"Charlton did a number on us Hughton style. Was inevitable from minute one. For all our possession we were lacking someone who could create a chance for themselves. This is a worry as redmonds crossing is inconsistent (but better last night with 3-4 good ones out of 10) so we can't rely on the odd few that are good crosses. Grabban is not going to be good enough for full season as starting striker and I hope hooper pulls his finger out soon as he will create chances himself
Jerome was bossed by bikey, a real battle for him. Wishes he'd not kept feigning injury from flailing arms. 3 times in one game is embarrassing.
Charlton are a very good defensive unit and many teams will be done by them in the same way.
Turner looked great all match
Subs were too late and tettey should have stayed on.
All in all great possession football and we played pretty well, but it's what you do with it that counts. Forget that one and move on to Saturday.
How on earth we didn't get a pen?! Bloody ridiculous reffing."
"Have calmed down a bit now after one if the most frustrating games in living memory. Charlton are a horrible, cynical little team who came and made no attempt whatsoever to win so to let them sneak off with 3 points is galling. The Championship should be embarrassed that they remain unbeaten 10 games in.
Ref was terrible although at the time my reaction was that their keeper must have been fouled the way he went down. He missed a couple of blatant elbows by their centre backs though and a couple of good handball penalty shouts.
All in all hard to be too downbeat in the cold light of day given we are still top and played well enough to have won the game comfortably. We have to stop throwing away points against crap teams at home though. We should be 5 or 6 points clear of this league really but instead we have the likes of Watford and Derby clinging to our coat takes due to our last three poor home results."
What a knob. 'The likes of' very short memories for some of them Norwich fans. It's like they've already forgot how shite they were last season and how they have stole points on many occasions themselves. Sore losers.
Good view point from the other guy though. Too many people get Nevgasms over keeping possession and passing around without actually looking dangerous. Our defending was top class and they need to just accept that. Our off the ball movement is so good, it's all I paid attention to last night really. I saw Gomez and Wilson drift a few times but overall everyone stayed in position, moved as a unit and closed down well. Henderson was also brilliant, really clever keeper and read the game very well.
No you're wrong there mate. They deserved to win every game last season too and if they didn't it was either because of the ref, or some big conspiracy. Or because Chris Houghton is black. Don't be fooled by there nice club image their fans are actually some of the worse going.
Two things with that... 1) It's clearly not deliberate handball, Bikey's arm is out for balance before the ball is struck and the ball is hit too hard and from too close to Bikey to give him any chance to get out of the way. No Pen.
2) Henderson had it covered.
So what if the game was 99% attack vs defence, the defence won and for the other 1% the less tested defence didn't do its job. That's football. The best team won. Tough titties carrot munchers.
Deliberate or not, and not being able to get your arm out of the way is irrelevant. If the arm is not by your side or in front of your body then it's handball. His is outstretched therefore a pen all day long and we got away with it. That's football as you say.
According to the laws of the game, if you move your hand towards the ball (deliberately or instinctively), it's termed "hand to ball" - handball.
If your hand does not move and the ball strikes your hand, it's referred to as "ball to hand" - no offence committed.
Clearly the ball struck the arm of Bikey from very close. The referees interpretation no doubt was "ball to hand" - no offence committed, no penalty.
The handball laws aren't that simple anymore. Guidlines state that 'Ball to hand' can still be regarded as deliberate. It comes down to the Refs interpretation and discretion. As I alluded too, you now also consider the position of the arm when it was struck. Whether the position is "natural or unnatural" and how the arm came to be in that position. Bikeys arm was spread out to the side, not by his side, many would argue that's an unnatural position and a penalty the correct decision.
I believe that the 'ball to hand' scenario can or will incur a penalty if it prevents a goal scoring opportunity. In the case of Bikey here, a lot of refs would have given the pen. As a manager of the team denied the penalty, I would have been furious and in need of anger management therapy. As a Charlton fan, I am f**king delighted that we weren't penalised!
Doesn't it have to be a deliberate handball that significantly changes the direction of the ball?
Technically, yes, possibly so but the fact that ball was goal bound would definitely have affected some ref's perception of the event - have seen those given many, may times
Comments
If your hand does not move and the ball strikes your hand, it's referred to as "ball to hand" - no offence committed.
Clearly the ball struck the arm of Bikey from very close.
The referees interpretation no doubt was "ball to hand" - no offence committed, no penalty.
Massive defensive performance from us although I hope we attck Brum a bit more on Saturday.
Great goal from the skipper, but I thought he had a better chance just before that when we countered attacked and a shooting opportunity opened up for him but he chose to pass it wide to Cousins.
Unbeaten, 18 points in the bag, who'd of thought it!
The handball laws aren't that simple anymore. Guidlines state that 'Ball to hand' can still be regarded as deliberate. It comes down to the Refs interpretation and discretion. As I alluded too, you now also consider the position of the arm when it was struck. Whether the position is "natural or unnatural" and how the arm came to be in that position. Bikeys arm was spread out to the side, not by his side, many would argue that's an unnatural position and a penalty the correct decision.
We know what sized club we are.
Last night it all went our way, so let's enjoy our moment and not have sour grapes (or carrots) like these poor sods when the boot is on the other foot.
Don't know about anyone else, but I'm not too precious about this big club/ small club thing. I honestly couldn't care less!
Well, I suppose that depends on how you interpret the word "interesting"
I think most away supporters will enjoy a Saturday afternoon at an hospitable Valley more than the warm welcome that your lot usually extends to visiting fans.
Can't we just discuss our win at Norwich?
Anyway, to the game. What a way to win three points. Back five were imperious, much man love to bikey and tbh. Igor puts in a hell of a shift though gets little service. The midfield done what was needed without excelling, though what do I know, I said shortly before jj scored that he should be hauled off as he looked fucked.
Penalty, after viewing it, would be peeved if not given to us but think it was the right decision. Not getting it was that little bit of luck we needed, plus the goal line clearance had me believing we might be on to something.
Locals at the end giving cries of anti-football, infighting, plus comments of the addicks celebrating 'like they've won the league' at the end - polite applause next time chaps.
And lastly, the young lad that came on at the end, he will be a handful coming on against tiring defences.
Seriously think we are just two players shy of something good this season. COYA
We remain unbeaten, I wish I could remember which perceptive Charlton Life poster described it as 'rope a dope' football, but there may be a lot more in that than meets the eye.
I noticed with Riga, and now with Peeters their concern regarding the sheer weight of football matches we have to face. There has been talk of efficiency, talk of not running around like mad things and preserving energy for when it is needed. Perhaps the continental viewpoint regarding the astonishing physical demands has a lot of merit. Yes in the English game players are high energy, but maybe the argument goes that using up all that energy takes something away from those moments when the body has to execute a brilliant bit of control, a good turn, spotting the optimum pass, sprinting that 10 yards that makes the difference, hitting the target. It maybe that we mistake our seeming lack of fitness compared to others with an intelligent approach. Conceding possession can actually work for us in games providing it doesn't result in us going all headless chicken.
If the opposition all want to write us off as basically crap let them, there are now ten teams in this league who won't do the double over us however much 'bigger' than us they may feel they are.
Perhaps opponents need to look at their own play before criticising us, because that is what we're doing.
On arrival at Norwich station went into the Complete Angler and had a couple of pints of Peroni Nastro.
So after having this Italian Lager, i then went and watched an Italian Master class in Defending from CAFC.
This beer was so expensive that i couldn't afford any food, so spent 90 mins biting my nails instead.
It is a fact that's if the canaries had scored in the 1st half, the outcome would have been different, but yet again a team who have more of the play, can't punish us.
Fanny F, said we have no Billy big Bolloxxx in our team, but we are the DOGS Bolloxxx when
it's come to team work and Spirit.
The only down side was, could not hang around as had to leg it back to the station for 10 o'clock London train.
so missed the players and Bob saluting our fans,
Guys,enjoy the ride and don't expect too much, remember it's the HOPE that kills you.
COYR.
As a manager of the team denied the penalty, I would have been furious and in need of anger management therapy.
As a Charlton fan, I am f**king delighted that we weren't penalised!
The pocket dynamo that is young Jack Munns !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29442725
That was the problem for the yellows, they kept trying to ed balls, where our centre backs won the aerial battles all night.
never mind Norwich lads, keep your ed upsons
Who is this guy? Must not watch a lot of football.