VFF, I think you are being a bit unfair with Mr Red.
Yes his comments may be a tad long but do you not find what he says valid?
A tad long, there's an understatement. Perhaps you can ask me which bit of the comment / stream of consciousness is valid. I know Seriously Red is passionate about the club, which is great, but article length contributions that make too many points are not helpful to debate. I have mentioned this previously. Its like going on an excessively long time. Its a football forum not a debate in the House of Commons.
That's why a summary would help EA, can you help with that ?
If the spine of Charlton is Henderson Ben Haim, Bikey, Buyens and Vetokele then Buyens was noticeable by his absence yesterday. yes he was playing but not half as well as when he first played several matches ago. It is the midfield where we are falling short and the Back Four (bless 'em) are what is getting these draws (instead of losses). My fear is for injuries to any of the current defence. Vetokele is the only one who gives a threat and while the rest are easing their way into playing with confidence (I thought Moussa did very well when he came on) a small squad is a risky thing ( I hope gudmundson recovers quickly) That being said Middlesbrough are a good side and in a way it is 1 point gained and not too lost. The last 20 minutes gave everyone the excitement at home they turn up for.
VFF, I think you are being a bit unfair with Mr Red.
Yes his comments may be a tad long but do you not find what he says valid?
A tad long, there's an understatement. Perhaps you can ask me which bit of the comment / stream of consciousness is valid. I know Seriously Red is passionate about the club, which is great, but article length contributions that make too many points are not helpful to debate. I have mentioned this previously. Its like going on an excessively long time. Its a football forum not a debate in the House of Commons.
That's why a summary would help EA, can you help with that ?
**Perhaps you can ask me which bit of the comment / stream of consciousness is valid.**
I take it you do not agree with much he has to say either then?
I'm sure this is hot air to a lot on here. Misery loves misery it seems.
Apart from a couple of posters, I personally find he overall tone of most posts on this thread as positive. Even the doom mongers are entitled to their opinion of course.
I thought that the 1st 60 minutes was dull and that it's daft to have a back-up strike force of GG and Church in the Championship. Having said that this season has been much, much better than the last few and I am pleased with the owner's overall approach.
Apologies if you find this sort of view, less than 100% positive and therefore miserable. Of course you may not have me in mind but of course it's hard to tell when vague generalisations are made.
VFF, I think you are being a bit unfair with Mr Red.
Yes his comments may be a tad long but do you not find what he says valid?
A tad long, there's an understatement. Perhaps you can ask me which bit of the comment / stream of consciousness is valid. I know Seriously Red is passionate about the club, which is great, but article length contributions that make too many points are not helpful to debate. I have mentioned this previously. Its like going on an excessively long time. Its a football forum not a debate in the House of Commons.
That's why a summary would help EA, can you help with that ?
**Perhaps you can ask me which bit of the comment / stream of consciousness is valid.**
I take it you do not agree with much he has to say either then?
'That's why a summary would help EA, can you help with that'
I am sure you are not deliberately being dense @ElfsborgAddick, I take it you just can't be arsed to read Seriously Red overlong post either.
VFF, I think you are being a bit unfair with Mr Red.
Yes his comments may be a tad long but do you not find what he says valid?
I thank you sir! @Rob above sums it up - all I'm doing is adding some details and perceptions about the way that CAFC is being run today and the options for the next nine months... The next two windows. In summary anyone asking for three more loan players in time for Norwich away is being a tad impatient or perhaps failing to understand the new operating model. And I'm being extremely tactful here!
Everyone has their own perspective on our journey but some commentators are definitely behind the curve simply because they backed the wrong horse... No matter... We all learn...
The messaging coming out of the club and on the pitch is crystal clear to me. I don't have the football vocabulary to describe the precise difference between the squad this season and last but I have essentially split into back 5 - which now looks really solid - and front six which is clearly a work in progress - scoring goals but not always firing on all cylinders.
Just three paragraphs need highlighting from that which I posted earlier- I won't edit as the message is precise:
1) We know there is a pan European scouting network which clearly has traction (real delivery not bullshitting like before!) with leading clubs and players in several countries - If CAFC is going to get another player (or three!) then he is likely to come from Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium and is likely to have a potential resale value (far) higher than the fees paid out. When they invest in players they mean invest and not throw money at players and agents which simply builds up the clubs debts. We might get them on a free next summer or we might have to pay €3m but I am certain that we will see new arrivals in the next two windows.
2) That means our front six options will improve over time - as the current players improve with age and experience plus strategic (not tactical) additions are made. ... This might be paid for with departures, increased losses and/or increased gates?
3) Whether CAFC loses £2M or £4M this season (and next) makes no real difference to CAFC, M.Duchatelet nor FFP compliance - our losses are going in the right direction and other clubs will fail FFP
Binning any of the nine current "front six" players before January is not really part of the new value system is it? That was Pardew's approach! These guys are either on loan for a year or they are signed on two/three year deals so why sign players and then replace them with a loan 3-6 months later!
For those wishing to criticise Church, Wilson, Tucudean or Jackson, always remember that the board and management watch the same games as the rest of us. They have the benefit of extensive pro-zone analysis afterwards and they also have the money and authority to change things. Not overnight, not next week but certainly every window as we move towards becoming a real challenger.
Fundamentally it is up to Peeters to find the combination that works... and for me, the test is whether we can beat the bottom half teams at home on a consistent basis. Bread and butter wins that will tell the fans and the rest of the football world that we are back in business.... Martin Samuels, Rod Liddle and any other fecker writing us off a few months back can have a fecking rethink before they trash our club! I might sound passionate about that but any fecker who convinces 1,10 or 100 fans not to come to the Valley needs to be challenged. Simples.
Bottom line: we are ten places higher in the league today than where we finished four months ago. That is not an accident! As @Mundell Fleming puts it so eloquently, there's clearly a plan. I don't need to know the details and it would take time and energy away from the club efforts at the coal face for the club to explain above and beyond the standard press conferences.
So I take on board the criticism about being concise and time to shut up now...I'm going to just sit back and enjoy.
Well it looks like in in a minority of one (no, two as my mate who I sit with agrees with me) but I thought that was dire. Inept first half. Better second but without really creating anything until the last ten minutes. I was bored. We are clearly better than last year, but watching us defend!play backwards for 80 minutes is beginning to wear thin.
Immense defensively across the board including Wiggins who had his best game for a while. Midfield pretty useless. Buyens had his second successive stinker and Jacko would have been as well sitting with me. Not sure yet about Bulot. Thought Moussa was very good and changed the shape of the team. Cousins looked better when he moved into the middle. Despite George's eccentricities I suspect he adds something to our shape that we miss when he's not there.
I'd say "dire" is a bit strong, more "turgid" and "ordinary", but overall I agree with this concise and erudite assessment.
A poor and flat first half, during which Boro played around and through us. Fortunately, Adomah and Friend missed very presentable chances, failing to even work Henderson. With the exception of Gudmundsson, we were second best in midfield, with Yoni Buyens having another off day, Jacko off the pace and Adomah and others picking up all the second balls.
A very different story in the second half. The minimal impact of Boro's much vaunted strikers, Kike (for whom they paid €3.5 million) and Bamford (a young man who pays far too much attention to his bouffant) was testament to the quality of our centre backs. We started to spread the play intelligently, Solly began to get forward to good effect and Moussa was a real threat on the left, as well as finding pockets of space infield. Cousins drove us on once he moved into central midfield and there was only one winner in the last 20 minutes. Whilst it's true that Boro were probably feeling the effects of their exertions at Anfield, we couldn't have gone much closer to winning the game at the death and our players showed great heart and desire to turn the game in our favour.
Overall, a very good second half and a respectable result against another team who are likely to be up there challenging next May.
Suffice it to say that Saturday was a major improvement on the two toothless and dispiriting performances against these opponents last season and substantial progress has been made. That view was endorsed by my Boro supporting mate, who thinks we'll finish in the top ten. Yes, we are short in a couple of areas - as the management and board well know (hence the unsuccessful attempts to strengthen the squad just before the deadline) - but the club is working to a plan. As that unfolds, some patience and perspective is going to be required.
A poor and flat first half, during which Boro played around and through us. Fortunately, Adomah and Friend missed very presentable chances, failing to even work Henderson. With the exception of Gudmundsson, we were second best in midfield, with Yoni Buyens having another off day, Jacko off the pace and Adomah and others picking up all the second balls.
A very different story in the second half. The minimal impact of Boro's much vaunted strikers, Kike (for whom they paid €3.5 million) and Bamford (a young man who pays far too much attention to his bouffant) was testament to the quality of our centre backs. We started to spread the play intelligently, Solly began to get forward to good effect and Moussa was a real threat on the left, as well as finding pockets of space infield. Cousins drove us on once he moved into central midfield and there was only one winner in the last 20 minutes. Whilst it's true that Boro were probably feeling the effects of their exertions at Anfield, we couldn't have gone much closer to winning the game at the death and our players showed great heart and desire to turn the game in our favour.
Overall, a very good second half and a respectable result against another team who are likely to be up there challenging next May.
Suffice it to say that Saturday was a major improvement on the two toothless and dispiriting performances against these opponents last season and substantial progress has been made. That view was endorsed by my Boro supporting mate, who thinks we'll finish in the top ten. Yes, we are short in a couple of areas - as the management and board well know (hence the unsuccessful attempts to strengthen the squad just before the deadline) - but the club is working to a plan. As that unfolds, some patience and perspective is going to be required.
Hello Airman, yes there will always of course be differing opinions, no worries there. Notice that I have not come back to pursue an argument, our opinions after this game are incredibly different.I was smiling as I came out despite losing two points, because I recognise what the new management are aiming for, and I had been entertained. takes all sorts eh ?
I think Bulot is going to be a very interesting player for us. I see Henderson in the press today says they should be going for the win more. I'm liking being unbeaten, but the odd win would be nice. Although if we lose Tuesday i'm bound to say i would take a draw ;-)
Decided to get the Football League paper as long as we don't lose. so far this season every sunday.
Players marks, highest were Solly and Wiggins with 8's (both had good games) Players lowest, Gud and Igor with 5's !!! Johann only played 1 half but always looks class on the ball. Igor seemed to be marked by two players, yet still battled away.
how you mark 22 players when you watch the game live and don't know who's who's is a mystery.
The above was from Sunday.
The reporter was George Jones(local paper man) who writes in the valley review, so he wil know our players !
Giving 5's to johann and Igor still seems strange, when not one of our players marks on CL recorded such a low mark for either player.
It will always be a game of opinions. (even thou i'm always amazed when people don't see it the same as me !)
Reference Igors mark, it was so obvious that he was a well marked man and desparately needed a busy partner up front with him. It wasperhaps significant that young Ahearne Grant was on the bench.
It's quite hilarious, Tucudean coming on as our super-sub, and doing the bicycle-kick in fresh air.
Don't you think we should be better than that?
Why do you go to football?
First half we were utter pelt, no movement from the midfield when Henderson was trying to play it out, so only had Bikey and TBH as options, so he hoofed it forward and back it came, Boro should have been 3 up at half time. Jacko looks a busted flush, players should be picked on form and what they bring to the team, jacko looked too far off the pace. I think a bit of bench warming would do him good and make him fight for his place. I also think he would be better coming of the bench for the last 20 mins.
When Moussa came on in the second half and ran at them it gave the midfield breathing space and as soon as JJ came of and JC moved into his best position, George played well and although he doesnt look pretty, but he gave their defense something to think about and this gave Igor some more time, we started playing the ball in their half, we should have had 2 or 3 by the end of the game so overall a draw was fair. I just hope BP as the nuts to drop Jacko for the Naarch game, I do hope so...
Hello Airman, yes there will always of course be differing opinions, no worries there. Notice that I have not come back to pursue an argument, our opinions after this game are incredibly different.I was smiling as I came out despite losing two points, because I recognise what the new management are aiming for, and I had been entertained. takes all sorts eh ?
Indeed. Won't stop me travelling to Norwich tomorrow though!
posting very late here. In the end we could/should have won the game and from that perspective I was satisfied. I don't think the team or the football is much better than last year but one thing is for certain we are better organised and securer defensively.
Whist I absolutely admire JJ as he is Charlton through and through he was missing on Saturday and was also off the pace meaning Igor was very isolated as we lost the midfield ground it's time for a change, get the energy of Cousins in the right place i.e. centre midfield and that will create more room to play.
Still unbeaten and 15 points so not so bad I think we can get better.
I don't think the team or the football is much better than last year
Really?!
I think I understand what he's getting at but think some of us, myself included, should probably watch some of last season's matches again online to realise just how far we've come in such a short space of time.
Comments
That's why a summary would help EA, can you help with that ?
Twice it's happened this season and twice I've seen the opposition in absolute blind panic, not knowing what to do.
And his finish against Wolves was superb.
Simples.
Morro in at centre back with Igor & The Beast up front. Beef up the strike force.
What will Delia's boys make of that on Tues night ?
I take it you do not agree with much he has to say either then?
I thought that the 1st 60 minutes was dull and that it's daft to have a back-up strike force of GG and Church in the Championship. Having said that this season has been much, much better than the last few and I am pleased with the owner's overall approach.
Apologies if you find this sort of view, less than 100% positive and therefore miserable. Of course you may not have me in mind but of course it's hard to tell when vague generalisations are made.
I am sure you are not deliberately being dense @ElfsborgAddick, I take it you just can't be arsed to read Seriously Red overlong post either.
@Rob above sums it up - all I'm doing is adding some details and perceptions about the way that CAFC is being run today and the options for the next nine months... The next two windows.
In summary anyone asking for three more loan players in time for Norwich away is being a tad impatient or perhaps failing to understand the new operating model. And I'm being extremely tactful here!
Everyone has their own perspective on our journey but some commentators are definitely behind the curve simply because they backed the wrong horse... No matter... We all learn...
The messaging coming out of the club and on the pitch is crystal clear to me. I don't have the football vocabulary to describe the precise difference between the squad this season and last but I have essentially split into back 5 - which now looks really solid - and front six which is clearly a work in progress - scoring goals but not always firing on all cylinders.
Just three paragraphs need highlighting from that which I posted earlier- I won't edit as the message is precise:
1) We know there is a pan European scouting network which clearly has traction (real delivery not bullshitting like before!) with leading clubs and players in several countries - If CAFC is going to get another player (or three!) then he is likely to come from Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium and is likely to have a potential resale value (far) higher than the fees paid out. When they invest in players they mean invest and not throw money at players and agents which simply builds up the clubs debts. We might get them on a free next summer or we might have to pay €3m but I am certain that we will see new arrivals in the next two windows.
2) That means our front six options will improve over time - as the current players improve with age and experience plus strategic (not tactical) additions are made. ... This might be paid for with departures, increased losses and/or increased gates?
3) Whether CAFC loses £2M or £4M this season (and next) makes no real difference to CAFC, M.Duchatelet nor FFP compliance - our losses are going in the right direction and other clubs will fail FFP
Binning any of the nine current "front six" players before January is not really part of the new value system is it? That was Pardew's approach! These guys are either on loan for a year or they are signed on two/three year deals so why sign players and then replace them with a loan 3-6 months later!
For those wishing to criticise Church, Wilson, Tucudean or Jackson, always remember that the board and management watch the same games as the rest of us. They have the benefit of extensive pro-zone analysis afterwards and they also have the money and authority to change things. Not overnight, not next week but certainly every window as we move towards becoming a real challenger.
Fundamentally it is up to Peeters to find the combination that works... and for me, the test is whether we can beat the bottom half teams at home on a consistent basis. Bread and butter wins that will tell the fans and the rest of the football world that we are back in business.... Martin Samuels, Rod Liddle and any other fecker writing us off a few months back can have a fecking rethink before they trash our club! I might sound passionate about that but any fecker who convinces 1,10 or 100 fans not to come to the Valley needs to be challenged. Simples.
Bottom line: we are ten places higher in the league today than where we finished four months ago. That is not an accident! As @Mundell Fleming puts it so eloquently, there's clearly a plan. I don't need to know the details and it would take time and energy away from the club efforts at the coal face for the club to explain above and beyond the standard press conferences.
So I take on board the criticism about being concise and time to shut up now...I'm going to just sit back and enjoy.
A very different story in the second half. The minimal impact of Boro's much vaunted strikers, Kike (for whom they paid €3.5 million) and Bamford (a young man who pays far too much attention to his bouffant) was testament to the quality of our centre backs. We started to spread the play intelligently, Solly began to get forward to good effect and Moussa was a real threat on the left, as well as finding pockets of space infield. Cousins drove us on once he moved into central midfield and there was only one winner in the last 20 minutes. Whilst it's true that Boro were probably feeling the effects of their exertions at Anfield, we couldn't have gone much closer to winning the game at the death and our players showed great heart and desire to turn the game in our favour.
Overall, a very good second half and a respectable result against another team who are likely to be up there challenging next May.
Suffice it to say that Saturday was a major improvement on the two toothless and dispiriting performances against these opponents last season and substantial progress has been made. That view was endorsed by my Boro supporting mate, who thinks we'll finish in the top ten. Yes, we are short in a couple of areas - as the management and board well know (hence the unsuccessful attempts to strengthen the squad just before the deadline) - but the club is working to a plan. As that unfolds, some patience and perspective is going to be required.
Players marks, highest were Solly and Wiggins with 8's (both had good games)
Players lowest, Gud and Igor with 5's !!! Johann only played 1 half but always looks class on the ball.
Igor seemed to be marked by two players, yet still battled away.
how you mark 22 players when you watch the game live and don't know who's who's is a mystery.
The above was from Sunday.
The reporter was George Jones(local paper man) who writes in the valley review, so he wil know our players !
Giving 5's to johann and Igor still seems strange, when not one of our players marks on CL recorded such a low mark for either player.
It will always be a game of opinions. (even thou i'm always amazed when people don't see it the same as me !)
First half we were utter pelt, no movement from the midfield when Henderson was trying to play it out, so only had Bikey and TBH as options, so he hoofed it forward and back it came, Boro should have been 3 up at half time.
Jacko looks a busted flush, players should be picked on form and what they bring to the team, jacko looked too far off the pace. I think a bit of bench warming would do him good and make him fight for his place. I also think he would be better coming of the bench for the last 20 mins.
When Moussa came on in the second half and ran at them it gave the midfield breathing space and as soon as JJ came of and JC moved into his best position, George played well and although he doesnt look pretty, but he gave their defense something to think about and this gave Igor some more time, we started playing the ball in their half, we should have had 2 or 3 by the end of the game so overall a draw was fair.
I just hope BP as the nuts to drop Jacko for the Naarch game, I do hope so...
Whist I absolutely admire JJ as he is Charlton through and through he was missing on Saturday and was also off the pace meaning Igor was very isolated as we lost the midfield ground it's time for a change, get the energy of Cousins in the right place i.e. centre midfield and that will create more room to play.
Still unbeaten and 15 points so not so bad I think we can get better.
@CAFCofficial need to move on.
Secondly, @seriously_red very detailed posts, agree 100%.
Finally, I thought we were unlucky Saturday. They are a very good team, and we gave as good as we got. Onto tonight. Coyr!