[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]we've been back at the valley nearly 15 years and reasonably successful for the last ten , yet home support has trebled and away support hasn't moved
yeah,but they are there just to see premier football though.
Serious question. What can YOU do to change the situation? What action can YOU personally take to increase the regular away support and what could the club realistically do to support you in achieving that.
Clearly the more away support the better for the morale of the team.
1. we have to build the sense of bonding/camaraderie that you get on an away day
We have had no success in cup competitions in since god was a boy. Clubs like West Ham have. They got to the cup final last year, no doubt, there was a qualifying arrangement where you got a ticket if you have been to certain away games. They have built up this base over the years by fairly regular success in cup competitions. The bonding experience is there and fans buy into that.
In recent seasons, apart from early last year, our away form has been fairly poor, that is no great incentive to go
You cannot legislate for those on pitch failures. What I would do is:
a) give discounts off your next years season ticket for away games attended in the previous year. Say 1% for each game with a maximum of 10%. I would run this scheme for a maximum of three years, reviewing away attendances each season.
b) you could be even more radical and make your season ticket entitle you to say five away game tickets free of charge (on a first come first served basis).
c) You could also have special "meet the players " session for qualifying away fans.
d) You could have an "away fan of the year" award to reward the fans who travel the furthest.
2. travelling arrangements
I realise the club is really going the extra mile with regard to transport for recent matches. In quieter times fans can either get the clubs coaches or make their own way.
Some kind of car share info swapping facility might help. I know it happens on an ad hoc basis, but co-ordination by the club/supporters club might help.
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]i almost brought it up last time but thought it best not to, but after the man city game there was the stand up sit down debate, and i'd just like to point out that there was no mention of valley golders.
take cover! ;-)
you can belt up.
me and les were discussing last night, for someone that hardly spoke on sunday you an'arf say a lot on this board ya cheeky begger!
If we are on about away games then yes i do see a lack of lads in there twenty's . too many premier hangers on at home games leads to crap away support.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]we've been back at the valley nearly 15 years and reasonably successful for the last ten , yet home support has trebled and away support hasn't moved
yeah,but they are there just to see premier football though.
do we not play premiership football away ???
probably not looking at our record!
Its not always a good thing to have a good away following.
I try and do as many aways as I can, but saving for a wedding & buying my first flat has meant I can only do london aways this year (plus man u last game season). This means I've not built up too many priority points this season. I've got 13 points (1 point per away game attended this season & last) & wanted to do arsenal away but missed out as i needed 18 points to get a ticket.
As for the bigger than chelsea debate, I personally think we have a better away following then them. I don't think they would sell 8k tickets for wigan away in the championship like we did. But they do pay extortionate prices week in week out. Every away game for them will be classed as a catagory A game by the home side, so they will always pay top whack.
We left the Valley 22 years ago and returned 15 years ago. A 14yr old in 92 is now 27.
When you look around the Valley, do you see a massive void of 27-35year olds ? Because i don't.
This is true to some extent in that there clearly are people in the 27-35 age group and i'm one of them. But i'd place a lot of money on the fact that we have less fans in that age bracket than other clubs. When we went back the valley a 14 year old was probably well into football by then and supporting someone else as for the previous few years we'd been playing miles away.
Prior to that we were in steady decline as well, its just a shame we werent able to capitalise on those years we were in the top flight while at smelhurst.
but young groups are getting into it at a lot lesser extent than when say i was. At 14, someone at school would say about 'Charlton tomorrow' and about ten of us would troup over to Selhurst, pay about £3 and all get to stand together.
You can't do that nowadays, certainly not in a near full Valley all the time. It takes planning in advance to do that, and youngsters are no good at planning. So if they get into it a bit later, they go from nothing to having to pay £30+ for an away ticket. They simply aren't going to do it, not when they haven't had a build up of going and sitting with their mates, rather than their dad.
I struggle to afford my home season tickets even though I fully appreciate that they are very reasonably priced relative to other Premiership clubs.
As a family man I have other responsibilities and thus have to draw the line somewhere. A home game represents a 70 mile round trip for me and for evening games I am looking at a 150 mile round trip as I have to travel homefrom work to collect my daughter.
My wife accepts all home matches as read unless something is arranged. I missed Fulham and Newcastle this season because things were arranged around the ORIGINAL fixture list.
We presently have a close relative seriously ill in hospital. Given the uncertain circumstances I cannot commit to Blackburn away. I hope we will make the Sheffield United game but even that coulld be in doubt. Who knows?
I'm not complaining or moaning just pointing out the dilemmas that face those of us with family responsibilities.
I don't think I'm any less of a "good supporter" because I also consider my family.
You get attracted to the club you support well before your 14, say about 7 or 8, and those kids who would have been 14 in 1992 would have chosen Millwall and West Ham before us, the kids who were 7 or 8 in 1998 are now 16, and they're the ones who in a few years will have the deposiable income to afford away games
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]I'm not complaining or moaning just pointing out the dilemmas that face those of us with family responsibilities.
I don't think I'm any less of a "good supporter" because I also consider my family.
Exactly Len.
And if we heavily advertise ourselves as a family club to fill our stadium, like we have in the last ten years, then we can't be suprised if the 'family' don't want to travel to the arse ends of the country every fortnight. The fortnightly trip to the Valley gives them their football without the extra committment.
Not saying what we have done is wrong, its just given us a heavily skewed demographic of support.
there's one simple reason as to why our away support isn't good these days and that's purely because we've got out of the habit of going...there's a hundred and one reasons why we've got out of the habit but for the most part is because we hit a comfort zone in recent seasons and the home games were crap and as numbers started to go down it became a self fulfilling spiral tipping the edge as to whether to go to an away game or not...what can we and the club do about it to reverse this problem ?...well, believe it or not, i think its already turned around only we haven't noticed it just yet...why do i think its turned around ?...because blackburn will be my 5th away game of the season (fulham, chelsea, reading, watford, blackburn) as opposed to probably just one for the last few seasons (fulham)...why have i signed up for more away games this season ?...because the home games have been, for the most part, entertaining and instead of trudging down to the valley in automatic mode i'm now looking forward to the matches...and, reading the posts this season, i'm not alone on this...and if you're enjoying the home match experience and cant wait for the next home game the first thing you do is look to see if the trip to see the next away game is doable...and as the numbers going away starts to creep up, the effect will snowball...perhaps games on good friday in manchester or everton on a sunday afternoon may still deter a lot of fans from travelling but i suspect saturday afternoon and possibly midweek evening games might see a big upturn in travelling support next season...
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]You get attracted to the club you support well before your 14, say about 7 or 8,
Strongly disagree.
Ask any 18-35yr old Charlton supporter who they supported when they were eight, and the only one's who would say Charlton are through the family route.
Everyone else would be saying Liverpool, Man U, Tottenham or Arsenal.
The team everyone ends up with i think normally occurs when kids start secondary school, meet new other kids and then generally fit in with what's acceptable / the trend. Those with strong family ties and go regular are more likely to stay with their team, everyone else is pretty much up for grabs, and likely to chop teams until they are 14/15 IMO.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]the most important thing is to fill OUR stadium and we do that very well but IF we're relegated it'll be interesting to see our attendances next year
We'll be at the home games regardless of what division we're in.
Disagree mate, most people I know tend to make there minds up early, I did, first to the Valley, and that was me suckered in over the more attractive family options of Arsenal and Spurs, and anyway, isn't most club support down family lines?
7 to 9 is the age that people get attracted to a club, usally via someone who family has the traditions.
If we go down our away support will probably go up.
New grounds, less money etc.
Also you have to say that in the prem its either a local game (London, Reading) or a bloody great trek to the North West or North East.
In the fizzy pop there are your Leicesters, Wolves, Coventrys, Norwich's which although are a distance, still means you can have a good day out and not get back on the Sunday.
I am reading with disbelief some of the posts on here....Liverpool...Arsenal......then Charlton...tut tut boys. What with MCS & his spanner connections, next you'll be outing some of our current crop of fans as ex nigels ...step forward Charltondan :-)
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]I am reading with disbelief some of the posts on here....Liverpool...Arsenal......then Charlton...tut tut boys. What with MCS & his spanner connections, next you'll be outing some of our current crop of fans as ex nigels ...step forward Charltondan :-)
Don't be harsh Ketman. Not all of us were as lucky as you and I that is to win the lottery of life and be born Charlton fans.
my brother was leeds (first subbuteo team) then liverpool, and i was man u till 14/15 till we both got persuaded by dad, uncle and g'dad to care about charlton's results rather than just go along for a day out with him when we were younger.
i don't get the lost generation thing either. its not like a whole generation were wiped out. logistics made it harder for people to get to the games that weren't round the corner, but there were still plenty of people able, and willing to go, and most of those who were around at that time are back now anyway because of premiership football. where are the 70k that used to fill the terraces? priced out of the whole thing thats where!!!!
if football was cheaper it would be sold out or more appealing to kids, because like afka says, kids could make a decision on a saturday morning when having a kick about to go down to the ground to pay on the turnstyle and go see the match.nothing to do with family ties, if kids in the local area could afford to see charlton, then perhaps they would. instead of hanging around the kebab shops on their bikes that are 5 sizes to small for them and their caps that are placed ridiculously on their head making their heads look like meacons (sp?)
In the next few years i believe our away support will go up. There is a lot of of younger fans aged around 10-15 who in the future will travel away, my brothers being 2 of them.
think of the lost generation like a tribe, if you're tribe is hit by famine you don't produce as many offspring and people die, therefore on aggregate your tribe decreases, you then need to take steps to fill the gaps but that can take a generation to do - hence lost generation. You next Henners!
Comments
Bilmey, honoured!
yeah,but they are there just to see premier football though.
Clearly the more away support the better for the morale of the team.
1. we have to build the sense of bonding/camaraderie that you get on an away day
We have had no success in cup competitions in since god was a boy. Clubs like West Ham have. They got to the cup final last year, no doubt, there was a qualifying arrangement where you got a ticket if you have been to certain away games. They have built up this base over the years by fairly regular success in cup competitions. The bonding experience is there and fans buy into that.
In recent seasons, apart from early last year, our away form has been fairly poor, that is no great incentive to go
You cannot legislate for those on pitch failures. What I would do is:
a) give discounts off your next years season ticket for away games attended in the previous year. Say 1% for each game with a maximum of 10%. I would run this scheme for a maximum of three years, reviewing away attendances each season.
b) you could be even more radical and make your season ticket entitle you to say five away game tickets free of charge (on a first come first served basis).
c) You could also have special "meet the players " session for qualifying away fans.
d) You could have an "away fan of the year" award to reward the fans who travel the furthest.
2. travelling arrangements
I realise the club is really going the extra mile with regard to transport for recent matches. In quieter times fans can either get the clubs coaches or make their own way.
Some kind of car share info swapping facility might help. I know it happens on an ad hoc basis, but co-ordination by the club/supporters club might help.
That'll do for starters.
probably not looking at our record!
I try and do as many aways as I can, but saving for a wedding & buying my first flat has meant I can only do london aways this year (plus man u last game season).
This means I've not built up too many priority points this season. I've got 13 points (1 point per away game attended this season & last) & wanted to do arsenal away but missed out as i needed 18 points to get a ticket.
As for the bigger than chelsea debate, I personally think we have a better away following then them.
I don't think they would sell 8k tickets for wigan away in the championship like we did.
But they do pay extortionate prices week in week out. Every away game for them will be classed as a catagory A game by the home side, so they will always pay top whack.
But are we a bigger club? Of course we're not.
This is true to some extent in that there clearly are people in the 27-35 age group and i'm one of them. But i'd place a lot of money on the fact that we have less fans in that age bracket than other clubs. When we went back the valley a 14 year old was probably well into football by then and supporting someone else as for the previous few years we'd been playing miles away.
Prior to that we were in steady decline as well, its just a shame we werent able to capitalise on those years we were in the top flight while at smelhurst.
You can't do that nowadays, certainly not in a near full Valley all the time. It takes planning in advance to do that, and youngsters are no good at planning. So if they get into it a bit later, they go from nothing to having to pay £30+ for an away ticket. They simply aren't going to do it, not when they haven't had a build up of going and sitting with their mates, rather than their dad.
As a family man I have other responsibilities and thus have to draw the line somewhere. A home game represents a 70 mile round trip for me and for evening games I am looking at a 150 mile round trip as I have to travel homefrom work to collect my daughter.
My wife accepts all home matches as read unless something is arranged. I missed Fulham and Newcastle this season because things were arranged around the ORIGINAL fixture list.
We presently have a close relative seriously ill in hospital. Given the uncertain circumstances I cannot commit to Blackburn away. I hope we will make the Sheffield United game but even that coulld be in doubt. Who knows?
I'm not complaining or moaning just pointing out the dilemmas that face those of us with family responsibilities.
I don't think I'm any less of a "good supporter" because I also consider my family.
) You could have an "away fan of the year" award to reward the fans who travel the furthest.
i know that the club has given a certain distant relative a free season ticket for next season for the work she does on charlton away days
Exactly Len.
And if we heavily advertise ourselves as a family club to fill our stadium, like we have in the last ten years, then we can't be suprised if the 'family' don't want to travel to the arse ends of the country every fortnight. The fortnightly trip to the Valley gives them their football without the extra committment.
Not saying what we have done is wrong, its just given us a heavily skewed demographic of support.
Strongly disagree.
Ask any 18-35yr old Charlton supporter who they supported when they were eight, and the only one's who would say Charlton are through the family route.
Everyone else would be saying Liverpool, Man U, Tottenham or Arsenal.
The team everyone ends up with i think normally occurs when kids start secondary school, meet new other kids and then generally fit in with what's acceptable / the trend. Those with strong family ties and go regular are more likely to stay with their team, everyone else is pretty much up for grabs, and likely to chop teams until they are 14/15 IMO.
We'll be at the home games regardless of what division we're in.
7 to 9 is the age that people get attracted to a club, usally via someone who family has the traditions.
New grounds, less money etc.
Also you have to say that in the prem its either a local game (London, Reading) or a bloody great trek to the North West or North East.
In the fizzy pop there are your Leicesters, Wolves, Coventrys, Norwich's which although are a distance, still means you can have a good day out and not get back on the Sunday.
:)
Don't be harsh Ketman. Not all of us were as lucky as you and I that is to win the lottery of life and be born Charlton fans.
i don't get the lost generation thing either. its not like a whole generation were wiped out. logistics made it harder for people to get to the games that weren't round the corner, but there were still plenty of people able, and willing to go, and most of those who were around at that time are back now anyway because of premiership football. where are the 70k that used to fill the terraces? priced out of the whole thing thats where!!!!
if football was cheaper it would be sold out or more appealing to kids, because like afka says, kids could make a decision on a saturday morning when having a kick about to go down to the ground to pay on the turnstyle and go see the match.nothing to do with family ties, if kids in the local area could afford to see charlton, then perhaps they would. instead of hanging around the kebab shops on their bikes that are 5 sizes to small for them and their caps that are placed ridiculously on their head making their heads look like meacons (sp?)
:D