This new victim was apparently well versed in Islamic culture and loved the culture.
These extremists are tearing the soul out of Islam. They are tarring it with a very bloody and inaccurate brush.
Please just remember an Islamic extremist is seen by most Muslims as not Islamic at all.
So why aren't other Muslims forming a coalition to destroy them?
Where do you think the intelligence agencies get much of their information from?
Hasn't helped lately it seems.
I must've missed the bombs going off on every street corner in London and the rise of Shariah law being enforced by packs of armed thugs roaming the streets...
Jokes aside, I think our intelligence agencies do a great job. Unfortunately, due to the nature of their work, going under-appreciated is perhaps the most recognition they will ever get for a job well done.
I think the security forces have been working tirelessly to foil plots to attack the UK. You must have also forgotten 7/7 when multiple bombs did explode on our streets, or the barbaric killing of Lee Rigby on the streets of Woolwich.
People seem to be laughing off the risk. I remember growing up as a kid when the IRA was bombing London and multiple other bomb scares, never pleasant knowing your dad is working up town & if he is safe or not (no mobiles back then!).
I was working in town on 7/7, I started a new job a week later on Tavistock Square, the tubes eerily quiet still. I'd never want us to go back to those days like that, where there is a palpable risk daily of some extremist managing to pull off a terrorist act. Everyone from all communities needs to do more to challenge extremism and stop it manifesting itself as violently as we're seeing on our tv's daily.
Or just ban religion.
I think we're agreeing!
My sarcasm was directed at the sentiment that the security services weren't doing a great job; they are. The mere fact we can only point to 7/7 and the horrific murder of Lee Rigby is, strangely, a possible testament as to how very little makes it's way on to our streets.
My point being is that it's wrong to dig out those working to stop acts of terror - because simply put, if they're quite and not often in the news then that's surely an incredibly good sign. After all, we only really learn about what they're doing when something has slipped through net.
I agree very little does make it on to the streets. However, there is a debate to be had about how much this is down to the security services and how much is down to genuine threats. During 1990-1997 there were 20 IRA incidents in London. Since 2005 there have been 4 Islamic terrorist incidents. Now I'm sure very few of us have inside knowledge as to how the security forces operate and how much they actually do but is this current wave really any more of a threat than what was happening 20 years ago? On the face of things it really doesn't appear so , we are constantly being told that it is harder to track terrorists with the technological advances and "smarter" criminals, yet the number of incidents has dropped significantly.
This isn't an attack on the security services, I am thankful for everything they do to protect us from any threat, but personally do I feel less safe in London? Not really. I also feel like the threat level that is talked about is inflated for political gain. Today on the BBC they interviewed Cameron and mentioned a poll in the sun that said support was growing for involvement in Iraq. I'm certain this has been influenced by this increase in the threat level.
It wasn't long ago that an American student was beaten half to death on the streets of east London by muslim vigilantes for drinking a beer. Terrorism isn't just bombs and bullets.
Facinatiing thread. My question here is what does ISIL really want. What are their true intentions. Is it to form an Islamic state on the current territory of Iraq and Syria or somewhere in between and if so what then. Is that where it ends or is that a consolidation period before marching on to other sovereign countries with a view of uniting all Muslim States under one fundamentalist banner ?
Pakistan is the real worry for me. Could the people in that country be turned and persuaded to overthrow the current fragile democracy ? Pakistan is a nuclear power and should ISIL ever reach the point where Pakistan were to be in danger then I fear we would be staring at World War III.
Big decisions need to be made and fairly quickly. Whatever is decided will for some be unacceptable but regardless a united strategy needs to be set out.
I suspect we need military intervention soon or run the risk of serious military action being required some years down the line.
It's going to be a rough ride.
Unfortunately their plans involve more than they have so far; this is supposedly their 5 year plan:
.
They can have most of that but I draw the line at Spain !
"Winning the hearts and minds" is a great sound bite and oft used by politicians who cannot offer a real solution.
ISIL despise our culture and no amount of fluffy speak is going to change their philosophy. The five year plan map kindly posted further up the thread might at present be fanciful but if left unchallenged then it is certain that the lines on the map will get redrawn and the threat will continue to grow until they have the means to offer a significant threat to world peace.
Israel will not allow ISIL or similar to threaten its existence and will pre empt attack if it feels that is what is required.
Make no mistake. This is not a threat to be ignored or trivialised. At some point in the future the clash will happen.
Good leader today in of all places, the Daily Express. Highlights the lack of joined up thinking of the West re Syria and points the finger regarding the rise of Isis squarely at Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, assisted by our arms sales.
It wasn't long ago that an American student was beaten half to death on the streets of east London by muslim vigilantes for drinking a beer. Terrorism isn't just bombs and bullets.
It wasn't long ago that an American student was beaten half to death on the streets of east London by muslim vigilantes for drinking a beer. Terrorism isn't just bombs and bullets.
Well because nowhere in the reports does it say he was attacked for being American or not Muslim or not Asian. Just because some Asian men beat a man in the street does not automatically make it terrorism, nor does it necessarily make it a racist attack. Also calling them Muslim vigilantes is a bit close to the mark as well.
Well because nowhere in the reports does it say he was attacked for being American or not Muslim or not Asian. Just because some Asian men beat a man in the street does not automatically make it terrorism, nor does it necessarily make it a racist attack. Also calling them Muslim vigilantes is a bit close to the mark as well.
Muslim vigilantes was being polite. The area is well known for muslim vigilantes targeting gay people, drinkers and anyone who doesn't conform to sharia law. The boy attacked was terrified.
RIP David Haines and thoughts with not only his family but the family of the second British hostage. How you can murder aid workers and reporters in the name of religion is beyond me.
We've got to step up to the maximum level of resource that we can to find these scumbags and destroy any kind of threat they offer.
Another British man has been shown in the video who is next in line. Unless we do something quick, he is a dead man walking unfortunately.
This is just a repeat of what happened in Yugoslavia, the fall of Tito and the subsequent genocides in the region.
The defeat of Saddam has similarly caused all the various waring parties in Iraq to bring out their old prejudices and start killing each other whilst bringing in the various neighbouring states as was the case with the Balkans.
90% of the issues are down to religion. As in any 'civil war' there will be innocent casualties. Perhaps those that go out there to fight or help should realise that their lives ean nothing to these extremists.
If anyone seriously believes that this 'five year plan' is a true reflection of what they really want, then perhaps you should ask the adjoining nuclear states of India and Israel what they will do to prevent this from happening.
My biggest concern though is the drop off in trade Algarve Addick may have as a result of this plan.
I have a real problem with news agency's plastering the picture all over the internet of David Haines just before he is about to be beheaded. CNN were guilty of it this morning. Why give these cowards the coverage?
I have a real problem with news agency's plastering the picture all over the internet of David Haines just before he is about to be beheaded. CNN were guilty of it this morning. Why give these cowards the coverage?
The US agencies go as close to the mark as they can, without much ethical thought put into it.
Sky News this morning said they won't be naming the hostage shown at the end of the most recent video. About two hours later they were doing a full profile of everything you need to know about him
My first thought upon seeing this morning's papers was that they need to think about what they're doing before plastering video stills all over their front pages. Then, sadly, I realised that thought probably had gone into that decision... I suppose it'll sell their paper though......................
Why not any one of the numerous "family man" pictures that they could've used which showed Mr. Haines for the caring, normal man that he apparently was?
A friend of mine has a 7 year old boy, who stumbled across such pictures whilst his Dad was watching one of the news reports earlier. His son apparently started asking him "why does that man have a knife?", "why is that man covering his face?" etc.
What on earth do you tell your kids when they see that sort of thing on the TV?
I wrote about how disgusted I was in the immediate aftermath of the Malaysian Airliners jet being downed over Ukraine - the media absolutely loved the gory details.
The same with Lee Rigby; we had the same footage and bloody scenes on a loop for days.
The media has yet to find a low it will not sink to; I firmly believe that. Screw the families affected, screw those with young children and screw those who simply don't want coverage that goes that in depth. They have money make.
We've got to step up to the maximum level of resource that we can to find these scumbags and destroy any kind of threat they offer.
Another British man has been shown in the video who is next in line. Unless we do something quick, he is a dead man walking unfortunately.
This is just a repeat of what happened in Yugoslavia, the fall of Tito and the subsequent genocides in the region.
The defeat of Saddam has similarly caused all the various waring parties in Iraq to bring out their old prejudices and start killing each other whilst bringing in the various neighbouring states as was the case with the Balkans.
90% of the issues are down to religion. As in any 'civil war' there will be innocent casualties. Perhaps those that go out there to fight or help should realise that their lives ean nothing to these extremists.
If anyone seriously believes that this 'five year plan' is a true reflection of what they really want, then perhaps you should ask the adjoining nuclear states of India and Israel what they will do to prevent this from happening.
My biggest concern though is the drop off in trade Algarve Addick may have as a result of this plan.
@Addickted, I mentioned that very observation (regarding Tito and the breakup of Yugoslavia) on a previous page - and this is what I really cannot grasp.
"The tragedy of Srebrenica will forever haunt the history of the United Nations. This day commemorates a massacre on a scale unprecedented in Europe since the Second World War -- a massacre of people who had been led to believe that the United Nations would ensure their safety.
We cannot undo this tragedy, but it is vitally important that the right lessons be learnt, and applied in the future. In the report which I submitted to the General Assembly last year, I laid out the facts as openly and clearly as I could, but also recommended measures to Member States to ensure that such failures do not recur."
But these incidents are happening again, right now.
On the 24th of June the United Nations issue a press statement saying more than 2,000 have been killed or injured in the previous two weeks, at least.
24 June 2014 – More than 1,000 people were killed in Iraq, and another 1,000 injured in the two weeks since the group known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL/ISIS) and its allies began to sweep across the country, the United Nations today confirmed, stressing that those figures should be viewed “very much as a minimum.”
In fact, little over a week previously, ISIS claimed to have killed 1,700 - the only statement to be found was "This apparently systematic series of cold-blooded executions, mostly conducted in various locations in the Tikrit area, almost certainly amounts to war crimes.".(courtesy of The Telegraph.)
Well no sh*t; it doesn't take an international lawyer to tell you that there are war crimes being committed does it? The exact same crimes that brought shame and embarrassment to the UN within the last 20 years. The same ones that the world supposedly swore never to allow again.
There's ethnic cleaning, the systematic abuse of women by militiamen and, unlike Yugoslavia, this is threatening to spread to other territories and swallow up further nations.
How you can murder aid workers and reporters in the name of religion is beyond me.
How you can kill anyone in the name of an imaginary person is beyond me. Yet religion which is nothing more than a group of cults continues to kill more than cancer ever has or will.
They have another British hostage who was a black cab driver but gave it up to do aid work in Syria, despite several warnings from people not too. Perhaps these people are a million more times caring than I am but I think you would be mental to go out there.
Think the next terror situation in Britain will be an armed siege on a shopping center or the like.
I sincerely hope not, as I think that would have the potential to be a lot more devastating than a bomb. Sadly though, I share your view.
It's interesting that when the Bluewater plot was discussed in court, other ideas that they had played around with included using football matches and take-away restaurants via spiking drinks and poisoning food. Whilst they were also in possession of equipment to make a huge bomb, it does demonstrate that they're considering alternative avenues of attack; which is utterly scary as you could be a victim in your home tucking in to a curry.
Only a matter of time before troops go in. No political or public will at the moment but as the terror threat rises and more homelands are threatened both public opinion and political stance will change.
But how do you fight these people? They are not a state or nation. They have no assets or land. They are a mixture of many different nationalities. They've got nothing to lose and seem to care for nobody, and I mean nobody. happily blowing themselves up for their beliefs. You crush them in Iraq, they'll pop up in Pakistan or Afghanistan.Dropping bombs on them is what they want. It is a big plus in the recruitment drive. I don't know the answer. And without changing the mindset of these people, I don't think there is one.
All very well with saying that, and I agree to an extent, but the real problem is social media. A lot of the young people in this country who have gone abroad to fight for religious fanatic groups have done so after watching videos and reading articles promoting their propaganda.
Comments
This isn't an attack on the security services, I am thankful for everything they do to protect us from any threat, but personally do I feel less safe in London? Not really. I also feel like the threat level that is talked about is inflated for political gain. Today on the BBC they interviewed Cameron and mentioned a poll in the sun that said support was growing for involvement in Iraq. I'm certain this has been influenced by this increase in the threat level.
Terrorism isn't just bombs and bullets.
ISIL despise our culture and no amount of fluffy speak is going to change their philosophy. The five year plan map kindly posted further up the thread might at present be fanciful but if left unchallenged then it is certain that the lines on the map will get redrawn and the threat will continue to grow until they have the means to offer a significant threat to world peace.
Israel will not allow ISIL or similar to threaten its existence and will pre empt attack if it feels that is what is required.
Make no mistake. This is not a threat to be ignored or trivialised. At some point in the future the clash will happen.
If so then that really isn't terrorism and you should be very careful how you brandish that around.
Why should I be careful?
The area is well known for muslim vigilantes targeting gay people, drinkers and anyone who doesn't conform to sharia law.
The boy attacked was terrified.
Edit :
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/09/04/libya-missing-planes-sept-11/15059169/
Another British man has been shown in the video who is next in line. Unless we do something quick, he is a dead man walking unfortunately.
The defeat of Saddam has similarly caused all the various waring parties in Iraq to bring out their old prejudices and start killing each other whilst bringing in the various neighbouring states as was the case with the Balkans.
90% of the issues are down to religion. As in any 'civil war' there will be innocent casualties. Perhaps those that go out there to fight or help should realise that their lives ean nothing to these extremists.
If anyone seriously believes that this 'five year plan' is a true reflection of what they really want, then perhaps you should ask the adjoining nuclear states of India and Israel what they will do to prevent this from happening.
My biggest concern though is the drop off in trade Algarve Addick may have as a result of this plan.
Sky News this morning said they won't be naming the hostage shown at the end of the most recent video. About two hours later they were doing a full profile of everything you need to know about him
Why not any one of the numerous "family man" pictures that they could've used which showed Mr. Haines for the caring, normal man that he apparently was?
What on earth do you tell your kids when they see that sort of thing on the TV?
I wrote about how disgusted I was in the immediate aftermath of the Malaysian Airliners jet being downed over Ukraine - the media absolutely loved the gory details.
The same with Lee Rigby; we had the same footage and bloody scenes on a loop for days.
The media has yet to find a low it will not sink to; I firmly believe that. Screw the families affected, screw those with young children and screw those who simply don't want coverage that goes that in depth. They have money make. @Addickted, I mentioned that very observation (regarding Tito and the breakup of Yugoslavia) on a previous page - and this is what I really cannot grasp.
This was what the UN Secretary-General, Kofi Annan, had to say on the fifth anniversary of the Srebrenica Massacre: But these incidents are happening again, right now.
On the 24th of June the United Nations issue a press statement saying more than 2,000 have been killed or injured in the previous two weeks, at least. In fact, little over a week previously, ISIS claimed to have killed 1,700 - the only statement to be found was "This apparently systematic series of cold-blooded executions, mostly conducted in various locations in the Tikrit area, almost certainly amounts to war crimes.".(courtesy of The Telegraph.)
Well no sh*t; it doesn't take an international lawyer to tell you that there are war crimes being committed does it? The exact same crimes that brought shame and embarrassment to the UN within the last 20 years. The same ones that the world supposedly swore never to allow again.
There's ethnic cleaning, the systematic abuse of women by militiamen and, unlike Yugoslavia, this is threatening to spread to other territories and swallow up further nations.
What am I missing?
It's interesting that when the Bluewater plot was discussed in court, other ideas that they had played around with included using football matches and take-away restaurants via spiking drinks and poisoning food. Whilst they were also in possession of equipment to make a huge bomb, it does demonstrate that they're considering alternative avenues of attack; which is utterly scary as you could be a victim in your home tucking in to a curry.
Unchecked IS is a real threat to world peace.
They are not a state or nation. They have no assets or land. They are a mixture of many different nationalities. They've got nothing to lose and seem to care for nobody, and I mean nobody. happily blowing themselves up for their beliefs. You crush them in Iraq, they'll pop up in Pakistan or Afghanistan.Dropping bombs on them is what they want. It is a big plus in the recruitment drive.
I don't know the answer. And without changing the mindset of these people, I don't think there is one.