At the moment UK and US are itching for an excuse to pile troops back into the Middle East. They know the public won't back them, but if an attack happens..........
The US that I live in isn't itching for any such thing.
Two election ploys, the enemy within and the enemy without. But there's no Malvinas / Falklands this time, so thank you Isis and assorted Mooslims, we can raise the terror levels, nothing happens, ergo Cameron knows what he's doing so we'll vote for him. Islam is tearing itself to shreds and Cameron is playing the race card in its widest sense. If I were an Etonite mess seeking re-election, I'd do the same.
A wise man once told me not to worry too much about potential bad stuff the media and government warn you about. It only gets into the media because it does not happen often and does not affect many people.
Bad shit with happen by either act of nature or planned by nutters and evil people but in all likelihood the only impact it will have on you is giving you something to talk about online and to your friends/family.
There is plenty of boring everyday stuff to worry about without freaking out over this sort of thing.
At the moment UK and US are itching for an excuse to pile troops back into the Middle East. They know the public won't back them, but if an attack happens..........
Absolute tripe.
Some really do need to open their eyes. This isn't about political one-upping or image. In the past few months alone there are hundreds upon hundreds of people from around the world who are going to Syria with the intention of doing damage to the West. They have made it very clear that they will go to whatever extreme to reach their objective.
The threat is very real. That is why the level has been raised.
Worth reading what Paddy Ashdown had to say about it yesterday.
Too much scaring the public going on
really? I'd rather be scared than dead. It makes people more vigilant which is only a good thing and could save lives.
Two things really. For the general public "Being vigilant" without really knowing what you are looking for or how to spot it just creates an atmosphere of fear without necessarily protecting yourself. The condition of of being vigilant in these circumstances is more likely to create an environment where hostility and resentment (justified or otherwise) creates the likelihood of violence.
Obviously this is presumably less true for the professional security services. Hope so anyway.
Two election ploys, the enemy within and the enemy without. But there's no Malvinas / Falklands this time, so thank you Isis and assorted Mooslims, we can raise the terror levels, nothing happens, ergo Cameron knows what he's doing so we'll vote for him. Islam is tearing itself to shreds and Cameron is playing the race card in its widest sense. If I were an Etonite mess seeking re-election, I'd do the same.
I don't wish to be contentious, but the last big war we got ourselves involved in was largely down to Blair and in the face of very widespread public opposition he went ahead. Just in the name of fairness I think it is worth a mention, along with MT and DC.
Is this ISIS mob the same lot that we were considering helping in Syria as freedom fighters? Was it a case of 'better the devil we know' when we decided not to bomb Assad's forces?
I work in a big West End shop and saw two armed police officers walking through store about an hour ago. A lot more police than usual up in central today.
Just a way to frighten us all into thinking Dave is keeping us safe, and hence not to vote his mob out at the next election.
This^
Governments have been doing this kinda crap since, well, the forming of governments. They want us to think we're always in some sort of danger so we become compliant and docile to any clamp downs/law changes. It's all about controlling the masses and getting them to believe what you want them to believe. It's also a great excuse to keep up a healthy defense budget....
I'm amazed by the glib remarks on here regarding what appears to be a real threat. I don't imagine that the Christians living in Iraq who are being slaughtered by these maniacs have much doubt as to their intention of taking their Caliphate (look it up) as far as they can. The whole civilized world declared upon discovery of the concentration camps at the end of World War II, "We must never let this happen again." If the Western world doesn't stop ISIS, won't we be letting this happen again?
I'm amazed by the glib remarks on here regarding what appears to be a real threat. I don't imagine that the Christians living in Iraq who are being slaughtered by these maniacs have much doubt as to their intention of taking their Caliphate (look it up) as far as they can. The whole civilized world declared upon discovery of the concentration camps at the end of World War II, "We must never let this happen again." If the Western world doesn't stop ISIS, won't we be letting this happen again?
Except there isn't a real threat. The government has said upping the threat level isn't based on actual intelligence on a specific threat but is based on rising tensions in the Middle East.
What ISIS are doing in Iraq is no worse than what Israel were doing to Gaza... so why do we get involved in one but not the other? In fact the Warsaw Ghetto and the tactics of the Jewish "freedom fighters" are almost identical to the Gaza blockades and the Hamas "freedom fighters" "terrorists" so don't bring WW2 up as this has nothing to do with that.
The main countries that fund extremism are the ones that we have the biggest arms deals with which is why the whole thing is a hypocritical farce.
Also, what does raising the threat level *actually* mean, other than to sneak in amendments to laws under the cover of protecting society? Will extending these powers seriously prevent another 7/7 bombing, or will they be twisted and misappropriated in the future like they are now - with the farce of the police saying that anyone sharing on Twitter the beheading video of James Foley is committing a terrorist offence (as disgusting as that may be), or detaining Glenn Greenwald's partner at Heathrow under similar arguments?
The Adam Curtis BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares" is a good watch about all of this...
It's easier to control a population by fear than it is by force. Sadly the majority of the country seem happy to trust politicians of all leanings in what they say rather than digging a little deeper.
On the bright side, I don't remember a terrorist attacking ever happening during an elevated threat level period.
I believe it was raised at the time of the Glasgow Airport bomb attempt as well as the other attempt to blow up the 6 planes flying between UK and US back in 2006.
Don't forget that Gordon Brown tried to use this tactic to increase the time in which suspects could be held without charge to 6 WEEKS !
If we had allowed this to pass into law, we might as well have gone back to burning people at the stake in the High Street or throwing suspects into the Thames.
We should stay out of foreign issues , let the Yanks sort it out - everybody already hates them, and never lose sight of the fact that we have a Food Bank in Lewisham because our own population cannot afford to survive.
"The people don't want war, but they can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." Hermann Göring
Maybe this ISIS threat is being reported differently in The U.K. than it is in The U.S. Apparently hundreds if not thousands of males are being slaughtered by ISIS, and the women distributed as wives. Christians are threatened "convert or die" and are fleeing their homes in fear. A Caliphate is nothing but a declaration of war on any state where there are Moslems, is it not? The comparison of Hamas and the Jewish freedom fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto is laughable.
Only problems I had this morning were an absolute beast attempting to push in front of me on 2 separate occasions (unsuccessful) and some prick stealing my leaning spot after I kindly got off the tube to let someone else through.
Not really 'severe terror threats' but I felt I needed to share.
On the bright side, I don't remember a terrorist attacking ever happening during an elevated threat level period.
I believe it was raised at the time of the Glasgow Airport bomb attempt as well as the other attempt to blow up the 6 planes flying between UK and US back in 2006.
I've looked it up on the MI5 web site. It was raised after the Glasgow Airport incident but from "Severe" to "Critical". That is, one stage above where it now is. But it only stayed there for a very short time.
Threat levels, again, to quote MI5: "do not require specific responses from the public. They are a tool for security practitioners working across different sectors."
In this regard, it's interesting to note that the "Response Level" "Heightened" is the same for both "Substantial" and "Severe" threat levels. The definition of "heightened" reads "Additional and sustainable protective security measures reflecting the broad nature of the threat combined with specific business and geographical vulnerabilities and judgements on acceptable risk."
Maybe this ISIS threat is being reported differently in The U.K. than it is in The U.S. Apparently hundreds if not thousands of males are being slaughtered by ISIS, and the women distributed as wives. Christians are threatened "convert or die" and are fleeing their homes in fear. A Caliphate is nothing but a declaration of war on any state where there are Moslems, is it not? The comparison of Hamas and the Jewish freedom fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto is laughable.
Not going to derail this thread (if we're going to debate this it should probably be on one of the other Israel threads) but the main point I was making is that it's a weak argument to suggest the world agreed after WW2 to stand strong in the face of atrocities from then on when the Western government have had such a transparently business- and politically-motivated inconsistent approach to those they intervene with and those they stand by and watch (while hand wringing and condemning with hollow words... if even that).
Maybe this ISIS threat is being reported differently in The U.K. than it is in The U.S. Apparently hundreds if not thousands of males are being slaughtered by ISIS, and the women distributed as wives. Christians are threatened "convert or die" and are fleeing their homes in fear. A Caliphate is nothing but a declaration of war on any state where there are Moslems, is it not?
Generally this is what we're being told. That, along with hundreds of Brits going out there to fight for 'the cause' of fundamentalism.
Those returning from the region still with the smell of blood for the infidel is the reason for the heightened security threat level announced by the Government.
Maybe this ISIS threat is being reported differently in The U.K. than it is in The U.S. Apparently hundreds if not thousands of males are being slaughtered by ISIS, and the women distributed as wives. Christians are threatened "convert or die" and are fleeing their homes in fear. A Caliphate is nothing but a declaration of war on any state where there are Moslems, is it not? The comparison of Hamas and the Jewish freedom fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto is laughable.
Not going to derail this thread (if we're going to debate this it should probably be on one of the other Israel threads) but the main point I was making is that it's a weak argument to suggest the world agreed after WW2 to stand strong in the face of atrocities from then on when the Western government have had such a transparently business- and politically-motivated inconsistent approach to those they intervene with and those they stand by and watch (while hand wringing and condemning with hollow words... if even that).
Fair enough. The adherence to this credo has certainly been selective. Be assured though, that even if the need is clear, the current President will be a weak member of any coalition.
Comments
Bad shit with happen by either act of nature or planned by nutters and evil people but in all likelihood the only impact it will have on you is giving you something to talk about online and to your friends/family.
There is plenty of boring everyday stuff to worry about without freaking out over this sort of thing.
Some really do need to open their eyes. This isn't about political one-upping or image. In the past few months alone there are hundreds upon hundreds of people from around the world who are going to Syria with the intention of doing damage to the West. They have made it very clear that they will go to whatever extreme to reach their objective.
The threat is very real. That is why the level has been raised.
Obviously this is presumably less true for the professional security services. Hope so anyway.
UKIP surprise everyone (including the PM) by announcing a defection from the Tories.
It is the main breaking news topic on all media.
24 hours later - the PM announces an increased terror threat and that an attack on British soil is "almost certain",
It is the replacement main breaking news topic on all media.
Just a way to frighten us all into thinking Dave is keeping us safe, and hence not to vote his mob out at the next election.
Governments have been doing this kinda crap since, well, the forming of governments. They want us to think we're always in some sort of danger so we become compliant and docile to any clamp downs/law changes. It's all about controlling the masses and getting them to believe what you want them to believe. It's also a great excuse to keep up a healthy defense budget....
He annouced the "severe" threat like it was persuading the public that we are in danger...not just telling it like it is.
If it was true it would probably carry more discretion as they would not want mass panic.
What ISIS are doing in Iraq is no worse than what Israel were doing to Gaza... so why do we get involved in one but not the other? In fact the Warsaw Ghetto and the tactics of the Jewish "freedom fighters" are almost identical to the Gaza blockades and the Hamas
"freedom fighters""terrorists" so don't bring WW2 up as this has nothing to do with that.The main countries that fund extremism are the ones that we have the biggest arms deals with which is why the whole thing is a hypocritical farce.
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/who-bankrolls-islamic-terrorism-david-cameron-knows-but-his-lips-are-sealed#.VAR1WGSwKsk
Also, what does raising the threat level *actually* mean, other than to sneak in amendments to laws under the cover of protecting society? Will extending these powers seriously prevent another 7/7 bombing, or will they be twisted and misappropriated in the future like they are now - with the farce of the police saying that anyone sharing on Twitter the beheading video of James Foley is committing a terrorist offence (as disgusting as that may be), or detaining Glenn Greenwald's partner at Heathrow under similar arguments?
The Adam Curtis BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares" is a good watch about all of this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
It's easier to control a population by fear than it is by force. Sadly the majority of the country seem happy to trust politicians of all leanings in what they say rather than digging a little deeper.
Don't forget that Gordon Brown tried to use this tactic to increase the time in which suspects could be held without charge to 6 WEEKS !
If we had allowed this to pass into law, we might as well have gone back to burning people at the stake in the High Street or throwing suspects into the Thames.
We should stay out of foreign issues , let the Yanks sort it out - everybody already hates them, and never lose sight of the fact that we have a Food Bank in Lewisham because our own population cannot afford to survive.
Hermann Göring
The comparison of Hamas and the Jewish freedom fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto is laughable.
Not really 'severe terror threats' but I felt I needed to share.
Threat levels, again, to quote MI5: "do not require specific responses from the public. They are a tool for security practitioners working across different sectors."
In this regard, it's interesting to note that the "Response Level" "Heightened" is the same for both "Substantial" and "Severe" threat levels. The definition of "heightened" reads "Additional and sustainable protective security measures reflecting the broad nature of the threat combined with specific business and geographical vulnerabilities and judgements on acceptable risk."
Those returning from the region still with the smell of blood for the infidel is the reason for the heightened security threat level announced by the Government.