All these chairmen chasing PL riches yet they won't sign all the Asian David Beckham's struggling to get contracts!
Oldham and Sheff Utd tried to sign a convicted rapist. If you are seen as being a decent footballer I don't think anything would get in the way of getting a contract.
As for managers, there will almost certainly be racist chairmen out there as they will reflect Society. I would personally doubt there are a lot and I would be 100% sure they are not the reason why Barnes did not get a third chance.
I agree that John Barnes isn't employed because he's consistently failed in managerial positions - even at Celtic, where you really have to be special to cock it up.
It's a lazy argument. There are only a handful of black managers, therefore football must be racist. The big problem for this argument is that the number of clubs who have employed black managers is considerably higher than the number of black managers currently employed. If they're prepared to employ black managers, one might reasonably conclude skin colour is no barrier at those clubs. And in fact the proportion of clubs who have had a black manager is slightly larger than the proportion of black players in the English game.
And can we even qualify and quantify this through understanding the proportion of black applicants for such positions? (I acknowledge that perception might be a barrier to application, but again how is that quantified?).
Even following his Damascene conversion to the ills of uncontrolled political correctness, Trevor Phillips fell into the same old trap in his recent documentary. Because Les Ferdinand - whose major qualification apparently is that he was a decent player - hasn't had people ringing him up to offer him a head coach position, the reason must be racism. Or could it be that most people don't get jobs that way - they get their qualifications, apply for jobs and see if they're the best candidate. All conveniently forgetting, of course, that actually Ferdinand is in a senior role at Tottenham.
Frankly when people like Sol Campbell and John Barnes - both, one would reasonably argue, unemployable in managerial positions for various reasons - complain they can't get the jobs they want because of racism it undermines a really important issue. In particular it trivialises the real problems faced by someone like Mark McCammon, for whom a tribunal found he was discriminated against by Gillingham purely because of his race.
And John Barnes should know better, frankly.
Mark McCammon is an odd case! I feel Gills were dealt with very harshly by the tribunal! At the time I was living in medway and was fairly regular at Gills and used to sit with some hardcore Gills fans who someine from inside the dressing room would come and speak to before and after most games! So we did have an inside line on a lot of things! We would know the lineup early and would be told who did the team talk and what was said! Doesn't mean everything i heard about mark is gospel truth but it's gonna be as reliable as anything out there!
What I was told was that after mark had put in some truly terrible performances which not even he could disagree with, he fell out of favour! More strikers were brought in and he fell down the pecking order! Apparently he still had a very inflated opinion of himself and instead of getring his head dpwn and working to regain his place he went around stirring things against coaches saying he was better than so and so and should be starting! this along with the fact there were four or five strikers ahead of him and youngsters that the manager wanted to try out! He was offered loans but refused them! So was eventually asked to train with the reserves! Coincidentally another player who was also black was asked to do the same thing at the same time!
With regards to the snow day accusations! There was snow yes but it wasn't blizzard like or anything like that! All players were asked to come in if it was at all possible! Mark lived walking distance from the training ground and owned a four by four so you'd think there was no excuse for him not to get in! well most players made the effort some travelling considerable distances some walking for an hour with kit to get there! Only two other players didn't make it! They were both on loan and had a couple hours journey on a normal day! But Mark couldn't make a ten min walk down the road to get in! This coupled with his bad attitude suggested he was being lazy or whatever and led to a fine!
I can't comment on the allegations he was refused treatment for an injury! other than to say it seems very unlikely!
And so when he was released and struggled to get a contract elsewhere because he was rubbish he cited racism and somehow won the case!
I agree that John Barnes isn't employed because he's consistently failed in managerial positions - even at Celtic, where you really have to be special to cock it up.
It's a lazy argument. There are only a handful of black managers, therefore football must be racist. The big problem for this argument is that the number of clubs who have employed black managers is considerably higher than the number of black managers currently employed. If they're prepared to employ black managers, one might reasonably conclude skin colour is no barrier at those clubs. And in fact the proportion of clubs who have had a black manager is slightly larger than the proportion of black players in the English game.
And can we even qualify and quantify this through understanding the proportion of black applicants for such positions? (I acknowledge that perception might be a barrier to application, but again how is that quantified?).
Even following his Damascene conversion to the ills of uncontrolled political correctness, Trevor Phillips fell into the same old trap in his recent documentary. Because Les Ferdinand - whose major qualification apparently is that he was a decent player - hasn't had people ringing him up to offer him a head coach position, the reason must be racism. Or could it be that most people don't get jobs that way - they get their qualifications, apply for jobs and see if they're the best candidate. All conveniently forgetting, of course, that actually Ferdinand is in a senior role at Tottenham.
Frankly when people like Sol Campbell and John Barnes - both, one would reasonably argue, unemployable in managerial positions for various reasons - complain they can't get the jobs they want because of racism it undermines a really important issue. In particular it trivialises the real problems faced by someone like Mark McCammon, for whom a tribunal found he was discriminated against by Gillingham purely because of his race.
And John Barnes should know better, frankly.
Mark McCammon is an odd case! I feel Gills were dealt with very harshly by the tribunal! At the time I was living in medway and was fairly regular at Gills and used to sit with some hardcore Gills fans who someine from inside the dressing room would come and speak to before and after most games! So we did have an inside line on a lot of things! We would know the lineup early and would be told who did the team talk and what was said! Doesn't mean everything i heard about mark is gospel truth but it's gonna be as reliable as anything out there!
What I was told was that after mark had put in some truly terrible performances which not even he could disagree with, he fell out of favour! More strikers were brought in and he fell down the pecking order! Apparently he still had a very inflated opinion of himself and instead of getring his head dpwn and working to regain his place he went around stirring things against coaches saying he was better than so and so and should be starting! this along with the fact there were four or five strikers ahead of him and youngsters that the manager wanted to try out! He was offered loans but refused them! So was eventually asked to train with the reserves! Coincidentally another player who was also black was asked to do the same thing at the same time!
With regards to the snow day accusations! There was snow yes but it wasn't blizzard like or anything like that! All players were asked to come in if it was at all possible! Mark lived walking distance from the training ground and owned a four by four so you'd think there was no excuse for him not to get in! well most players made the effort some travelling considerable distances some walking for an hour with kit to get there! Only two other players didn't make it! They were both on loan and had a couple hours journey on a normal day! But Mark couldn't make a ten min walk down the road to get in! This coupled with his bad attitude suggested he was being lazy or whatever and led to a fine!
I can't comment on the allegations he was refused treatment for an injury! other than to say it seems very unlikely!
And so when he was released and struggled to get a contract elsewhere because he was rubbish he cited racism and somehow won the case!
Well, 'club sources' would say that wouldn't they.
The snow day accusations aren't quite as you state them. McCammon lived 2 miles away from the ground and was injured. He and two other injured players hadn't made it in but in fact they did come in later when Scally threatened them with big fines and instructed them to take photos of their cars and the snow around them. All three were black, but they weren't the only ones to fail to arrive. Scally didn't insist on photos taken of the white players, including one who lived 2 minutes from McCammon. They went ahead and fined him anyway.
McCammon was sacked for the physical confrontation with Hessenthaler on that day, but not only that. His gross misconduct included 'making very serious accusations of racism' against staff members, which is in itself an act protected by law and one Scally should have investigated. Instead he sacked McCammon for it. It's an open and shut case in terms of unfair dismissal through race victimisation.
Tribunals rarely bring the best out of people, but this one found Gillingham had failed to follow their own (and regulatory) disciplinary procedures, had wrongly deducted wages over a period of time up until his sacking, and significantly had colluded on their statements and evidence to the tribunal. As McCammon's solicitor pointed out at the time, they went a long way to both dismiss him and to cloud the truth at the hearing.
John Barnes: Sports Life Stories ITV4 22.10-23.10 tonight (Tuesday).
His chance to clear up the disgraceful way he's been treated with regard to managerial opportunities after his excellent record. This will be a real eye opener
Good programme shame he spoiled it at the end by saying he won't be given a managers job because his black. How about its because your a shit manager John.
I have always liked John Barnes, and am surprised at his position on this, as he has always been one of the black players that refused to jump on the 'race-card' bandwagon. The interesting thing about John Barnes, is that when he was subjected to genuine racism and frankly disgusting behaviour during the 1980's, I don't recall him ever saying much about it, or even acting as a talisman for the anti-racism cause. Now that he is unemployed, due to his abysmal managerial record he is playing the race-card, when there is no cause to - all very odd.
I honestly think Barnes let his ego ruin his potential as a coach/manager.
He finished his career at Charlton, under a God-like manager, who's reputation as getting the best out of "average" players, (according to some pundits) and making Charlton competitive in "the best league in the world".
So good was AC, that eventually England came calling. (With the help of his big brother!) England, however, chose someone else. (Probably to the detriment of English football ever since.)
If, when Celtic came calling, Barnes had said "no thanks, I still have a lot to learn, and I'm in the right place to learn it", he would have learnt from a master in how to coach a team, to make it better than the sum of its parts.
But, no. He thought he knew everything he needed to know to be a top coach, because he had played 79 times for England. The rest, as they say, is history.
In fact, if he had stayed at Charlton, we may have not suffered years of pain, as he may have become the logical replacement for Curbs when he left us.
In fact, and here is a thought for you all to digest, how many top managers have been top players too? Answers on a postcard...
In terms of former English Players there arent really that many... i.e. take Rodgers for example he cant really be ever classed as player due to his horrible injuries.
You seem to see it more on the Continent with Antonio Conte and Pep Guardiola as two examples
Can't see how these multimillionaire football club owners can get as far as they have in this day and age by being racist. If the person sitting in front of them at an interview is deemed to be the one who's gonna help their club be better and by doing so make the club more profitable, I reckon they'd be hired whatever colour they are.
Can't see how these multimillionaire football club owners can get as far as they have in this day and age by being racist. If the person sitting in front of them at an interview is deemed to be the one who's gonna help their club be better and by doing so make the club more profitable, I reckon they'd be hired whatever colour they are.
I love to quote my old international businessman friend, who said "There's no racism in business and furthermore, there was no apartheid in business in South Africa back in the day". If JB was good enough he'd be employed.
Can't see how these multimillionaire football club owners can get as far as they have in this day and age by being racist. If the person sitting in front of them at an interview is deemed to be the one who's gonna help their club be better and by doing so make the club more profitable, I reckon they'd be hired whatever colour they are.
I love to quote my old international businessman friend, who said "There's no racism in business and furthermore, there was no apartheid in business in South Africa back in the day". If JB was good enough he'd be employed.
"There was no apartheid in business in South Africa back in the day."
Can't see how these multimillionaire football club owners can get as far as they have in this day and age by being racist. If the person sitting in front of them at an interview is deemed to be the one who's gonna help their club be better and by doing so make the club more profitable, I reckon they'd be hired whatever colour they are.
I love to quote my old international businessman friend, who said "There's no racism in business and furthermore, there was no apartheid in business in South Africa back in the day". If JB was good enough he'd be employed.
"There was no apartheid in business in South Africa back in the day."
Can't see how these multimillionaire football club owners can get as far as they have in this day and age by being racist. If the person sitting in front of them at an interview is deemed to be the one who's gonna help their club be better and by doing so make the club more profitable, I reckon they'd be hired whatever colour they are.
I love to quote my old international businessman friend, who said "There's no racism in business and furthermore, there was no apartheid in business in South Africa back in the day". If JB was good enough he'd be employed.
"There was no apartheid in business in South Africa back in the day."
Is he on a wind-up?
It's a bit hard to believe, I grant you, but he claims that to be the case. Not sure how many black businessmen there were at the time but there would have been no segregation (he says).
Comments
Oldham and Sheff Utd tried to sign a convicted rapist. If you are seen as being a decent footballer I don't think anything would get in the way of getting a contract.
As for managers, there will almost certainly be racist chairmen out there as they will reflect Society. I would personally doubt there are a lot and I would be 100% sure they are not the reason why Barnes did not get a third chance.
What I was told was that after mark had put in some truly terrible performances which not even he could disagree with, he fell out of favour! More strikers were brought in and he fell down the pecking order! Apparently he still had a very inflated opinion of himself and instead of getring his head dpwn and working to regain his place he went around stirring things against coaches saying he was better than so and so and should be starting! this along with the fact there were four or five strikers ahead of him and youngsters that the manager wanted to try out! He was offered loans but refused them! So was eventually asked to train with the reserves! Coincidentally another player who was also black was asked to do the same thing at the same time!
With regards to the snow day accusations! There was snow yes but it wasn't blizzard like or anything like that! All players were asked to come in if it was at all possible! Mark lived walking distance from the training ground and owned a four by four so you'd think there was no excuse for him not to get in! well most players made the effort some travelling considerable distances some walking for an hour with kit to get there! Only two other players didn't make it! They were both on loan and had a couple hours journey on a normal day! But Mark couldn't make a ten min walk down the road to get in! This coupled with his bad attitude suggested he was being lazy or whatever and led to a fine!
I can't comment on the allegations he was refused treatment for an injury! other than to say it seems very unlikely!
And so when he was released and struggled to get a contract elsewhere because he was rubbish he cited racism and somehow won the case!
The snow day accusations aren't quite as you state them. McCammon lived 2 miles away from the ground and was injured. He and two other injured players hadn't made it in but in fact they did come in later when Scally threatened them with big fines and instructed them to take photos of their cars and the snow around them. All three were black, but they weren't the only ones to fail to arrive. Scally didn't insist on photos taken of the white players, including one who lived 2 minutes from McCammon. They went ahead and fined him anyway.
McCammon was sacked for the physical confrontation with Hessenthaler on that day, but not only that. His gross misconduct included 'making very serious accusations of racism' against staff members, which is in itself an act protected by law and one Scally should have investigated. Instead he sacked McCammon for it. It's an open and shut case in terms of unfair dismissal through race victimisation.
Tribunals rarely bring the best out of people, but this one found Gillingham had failed to follow their own (and regulatory) disciplinary procedures, had wrongly deducted wages over a period of time up until his sacking, and significantly had colluded on their statements and evidence to the tribunal. As McCammon's solicitor pointed out at the time, they went a long way to both dismiss him and to cloud the truth at the hearing.
How about its because your a shit manager John.
He finished his career at Charlton, under a God-like manager, who's reputation as getting the best out of "average" players, (according to some pundits) and making Charlton competitive in "the best league in the world".
So good was AC, that eventually England came calling. (With the help of his big brother!) England, however, chose someone else. (Probably to the detriment of English football ever since.)
If, when Celtic came calling, Barnes had said "no thanks, I still have a lot to learn, and I'm in the right place to learn it", he would have learnt from a master in how to coach a team, to make it better than the sum of its parts.
But, no. He thought he knew everything he needed to know to be a top coach, because he had played 79 times for England. The rest, as they say, is history.
In fact, if he had stayed at Charlton, we may have not suffered years of pain, as he may have become the logical replacement for Curbs when he left us.
In fact, and here is a thought for you all to digest, how many top managers have been top players too? Answers on a postcard...
You seem to see it more on the Continent with Antonio Conte and Pep Guardiola as two examples
Can't see how these multimillionaire football club owners can get as far as they have in this day and age by being racist. If the person sitting in front of them at an interview is deemed to be the one who's gonna help their club be better and by doing so make the club more profitable, I reckon they'd be hired whatever colour they are.
Is he on a wind-up?