i would sit down if asked,having took orders for 5 yrs in the 90s i have no problems showing a little respect when need be,but its a redundant thread nothing gonna change,all diffrent types at football.
JUST TO LET YOU KNOW. I AM TAKING MY TWO BOYS TO BLACKBURN AND WILL KICK UP ONE HELL OF A FUSS IF EITHER OF THEM CANNOT SEE THE GAME. I DO NOT CARE IF PEOPLE WANT TO STAND, I'D RATHER, but, AND THIS IS A BIG BUT, MY KIDS COME BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. JUST HOPE YOU ARE NOT IN FRONT OF ME IF YOU WANT TO STAND AND THEY CANNOT SEE.
WE WERE AT WATFORD AND SAW ALL THE CRAP THERE BUT IT DIDN'T AFFECT US SO I WASN'T BOTHERED.
[cite]Posted By: DJ Davey Dave[/cite]WE WERE AT WATFORD AND SAW ALL THE CRAP THERE BUT IT DIDN'T AFFECT US SO I WASN'T BOTHERED.
That's ok then DJDD, as long as you weren't affected.....:-)
At the Citeh game with my lad, I really wanted to kick up a fuss but it's very difficult if you are sitting twenty rows back and the guy in front is only standing because he can't see. You can complain to the Stewards but, in fairness, they were trying as hard as possible to get people to sit. What do you do? Start punching those around you - not a great example to your kid. Start mouthing off to all and sundry? Also not a great example. This is why this has to be stopped now. It cannot be self-policed. The only way to stop it is for the travelling club to make it clear to its fans that they risk being blacklisted for tickets if they stand and for the home club to enforce the safety rules in all areas of the ground,
Let us all then get behind the safe standing campaign. I'm sure that pressure can be brought to change the rules as frankly there is no logical argument why such areas cannot, in the modern post Hillsborough age, be provided.
Bing,
I have read your comments on this over the past few months and agree with EVERYTHING you say. However in a dog eat dog world you have to look after No.1. It really pisses me off that this is the case but it is.
I do not come across all the complete wankers at the Valley that I do away because I hope most of them are banned from our ground. I saw such complete prats at Watford and Arsenal this year and in previous seasons.
I will take NO SHIT from any pissed up baseball cap wearing idiot at Ewood or any old druken git either.
I encountered some of Charlton's "finest" at Spurs away when I took my wife and daughter earlier in the season.
Fortunately perhaps for everybody concerned they displayed their immense commitment to CAFC by leaving after an hour or so once it became evident that we were going to lose.
My daughter and I drove up for the Middlesbrough Cup Tie and, apart from the result, enjoyed the experience. She expressed an interest in going to some away games on the strength of that. The people we encountered at the Spurs game diluted her enthusiasm to travel away though.
I'm not sure though that I'm going to gamble on travelling to Blackburn with her just in case we get stuck behind the obnoxious element again.
Football is meant to be an enjoyable hobby not a place where you run the risk of getting into a scrap.
It seems to me that anybody who shows any sort of consideration to other fans and isn't abusive is dismissed as a "flask."
So be it I'm a flask and from reading much of this thread and similar threads in the "other place" people like me are not welcome on away trips.
what do you mean 'reclaim the away games'.. do you want the away games to return to us being the laughing stock of the premiership with the worst and quietest fans in the league?
...and in what way do they belong to you more than any other person who has bought a ticket. if someone stands are they outamatically a thug/chav/drunk, NO. just like if someone sits they are not necesessarily a 'flasker'. If you want to get rid of anyone that stands at an away game you can kiss goodbye to any form of atmosphere. it is a fact that standing areas make more noise than sitting. In fact if we take a look at the valley? you can narrow down the majority of the noise making to two blocks, funnily enough they stand.
In my eyes you are just as bad as those dishing out abuse to those who sit. we are all charlton fans and the only logical thing is to try and move forward with a workable solution.
these are not fair accusations. I just watched around 98% of Pompey's 2000 travelling support stand for the entire 90 minutes, despite them getting stuffed. It was a lunchtime KO, so they wouldn't of been 'drunk' and wouldn't all of been 'louts'.
Those that reply to requests to sit down and reply with foul mouthed abuse are bang out of order, but equally so are those that request to sit down in a foul mouthed way, and especially those that don't request but simply grab someone by the shoulder.
We have less 'drunken louts' and 'drunken thugs' than near enough every other team in the top flight, and we shouldn't forget that.'
Sorry Afka but I disagree. The guy who consistantly stood in front of my parents wasn't drunk but was just a abusive, ignorant individual. However, a group to my right were the most obnioxious group of football 'fans' I have come across. Drunk as skunks they spent the whole time abusing the Mancs to our right and if we'd scored I doubt they'd have noticed. On top of this this then called those sitting 'scum' and 'letting them down'. What a larf. I can hardly be described as a wrinkly at 43 and I listen to dance music on my ipod and occasionally get drunk myself but when I do I don't go around abusing others and spoiling their enjoyment of a game they've paid £27 to watch. Unfortunately we seem to be attracting a most unwelcome element at the moment and I don't think they do anything to enhance the atmosphere as they don't sing to support the team but to antagonise the opposition fans. If they sat they could sing equally well.
I agree that we need to encourage the Club to try and get all those that want to sing loudly (a euphanism for want to stand) together and all it would take is the Box Office staff to allocate anyone who wants to 'sing' seats at the back and those that want to 'see' seats from the front. Then anyone who stands when seated at the front will just have to put up with it.
I'll be highly pissed off if we take 7,500 to Blackburn, and most of them weren't standing and making noise.
With that amount of tickets, the club should look to sell them in a way that keeps flasks away from the people there who want a different experience from there football games.
and if Rome and Seville showed anything, it was that seats don't mean good behaviour, and it's how you police a game which is more important
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]I'll be highly pissed off if we take 7,500 to Blackburn, and most of them weren't standing and making noise.
With that amount of tickets, the club should look to sell them in a way that keeps flasks away from the people there who want a different experience from there football games.
and if Rome and Seville showed anything, it was that seats don't mean good behaviour, and it's how you police a game which is more important
I agree and we need to find a solution to this problem. I am in favour of safe standing at grounds but the fact is at the moment the law says you have to sit and so if you are asked politely by another fan to sit then you should comply even if you'd rather not. IF we could get all those who want to stand together then there isn't a problem. At the moment though there is. My Dad is 75, and can't physically stand for 90 minutes, and at 5ft 6'' is at a disadvantage anyway. He sings more than most of the 'singing' brigade and has never, ever taken a flask or blanket to football. He won't have a problem at Blackburn though. He's been driven away and isn't going. Charlton's loss I'm afraid.
I wanna stand at away games but unfortunately if you are blocking someone who wants to sit behind you gotta sit. I'll be asking for tickets for this game at the back of the stand to avoid this problem.
Think a few people are making sweeping generalisations of fans on both sides, not all people who want to sit are Flasks, but neither are all those that want to stand drunken savages. Apparently according to a few of you I fall into the latter category which I assure you I do not.
I agree with AFKA - the situation can't be solved really at all barring the ticket office using a bit as savvy when it comes to away allocations. Whether they'd be bother to sort out the tickets even vaguely is another matter!!
PS There's plenty of 'ignorant b***ards who 'siddarn' as well as stand. Without getting behind the team. The boat summed it up well - where does most of the noise start at The Valley? The blocks half of which are standing!!
The princely total of 590 people throughout the country have bothered to sign the Number 10 Petition requesting safe standing. I linked this petition here ages ago now!
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/StandUpSitDown/
One is tempted to conclude from this statistic that an aggressive, vociferous minority is seeking to impose its views on the majority of fans who are perfectly happy sitting.
For the sake of clarification I have no problem with standing provided that "sitters" are properly given precedence and not aggressively abused.
[cite]Posted By: The Boat[/cite]it is a fact that standing areas make more noise than sitting. In fact if we take a look at the valley? you can narrow down the majority of the noise making to two blocks, funnily enough they stand.
Is it a "fact"? Where's the science that allows that conclusion?
Is it only "two blocks" that make the majority of noise?
What is a fact is that being amongst fans who are making loud noise drowns out any noise from any other source. I've been to so many away games over the years where I have been convinced that the only noise was coming from our fans. When I talk to mates supporting the opposition, they say the same about their fans. An exact case in point was the recent Hamsters game when a number who sit in the North Stand came on here claiming not to have heard the Hamsters fans much, if at all. Yet those of us who sit in the East Stand relatively close to the Hammers fans could hear the loud support they were making throughout the game.
The relative silence demonstrated by our fans in recent years is largely as a result of the "mid table mediocrity" which was served up rather than whether people stand or sit.
It's true that Pompey have a following of "loud" fans. Some of that comes from their history with the Pompey chimes, and a lot comes from the kind of tough macho-bonehead following that they get of the sort we all hate in those who follow the Spanners. If the price of stopping us becoming another Pompey is strict enforcement of the seating regs then bring it on I say?
Is it a "fact"? Where's the science that allows that conclusion?
Yes it is a fact, you can produce more noise standing that you can sitting.
As I stated before I stand, I have no problem sitting if my stnading was affecting someone else. However this generalisation that just because I stand I must be some drunken granny killing thug is actually quite offensive.
Standing doesnt make me the spawn of satan, it just means I'm someone who enjoys watching football a different way from you, a little compromise from both sides would go along way to having this problem resolved.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]He's been driven away and isn't going. Charlton's loss I'm afraid.
Large and Jimmy, this is a very unhappy situation which I sincerely hope can be remedied for your Dad and countless others. I really think that Ben as supporter director shouldn't be silent about this blatant outrageous treatment of a loyal fan. Come on Ben/ Henry, if you cannot talk about specifics, can you reassure us that the club will take steps to root out these morons? It would not be difficult to work out who was allocated the seats so that the people causing this problem can be identified ? If you can't post on here because it's too public, then PM me here or e mail my private e mail address which you have and let me know what the club intends to do.
Is it a "fact"? Where's the science that allows that conclusion?
Yes it is a fact, you can produce more noise standing that you can sitting.
As I stated before I stand, I have no problem sitting if my stnading was affecting someone else. However this generalisation that just because I stand I must be some drunken granny killing thug is actually quite offensive.
Standing doesnt make me the spawn of satan, it just means I'm someone who enjoys watching football a different way from you, a little compromise from both sides would go along way to having this problem resolved.
Stu, I for one am NOT branding all those who stand as granny bashing thugs, far from it. Neither should we brand all those that wish to sit as flask carrying, blanket wearers. However, on Friday I was called 'scum' and told I was 'letting them down' by some who stood behind me and our only crime was asking (politely) someone in front of us to sit so that we could see. Compromise is the way forward but there was no compromise with those idiots I encountered of Friday and I accept they are a minority.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]He's been driven away and isn't going. Charlton's loss I'm afraid.
Large and Jimmy, this is a very unhappy situation which I sincerely hope can be remedied for your Dad and countless others. I really think that Ben as supporter director shouldn't be silent about this blatant outrageous treatment of a loyal fan. Come on Ben/ Henry, if you cannot talk about specifics, can you reassure us that the club will take steps to root out these morons? It would not be difficult to work out who was allocated the seats so that the people causing this problem can be identified ? If you can't post on here because it's too public, then PM me here or e mail my private e mail address which you have and let me know what the club intends to do.
Bing, I don't want this to become a 'my Dad' issue because it is an issue which severely affects many, many others especailly those like DJDD who take their kids. It needs resolving to the satisfaction of all concerned. I am surprised that Ben hasn't interjected yet but I'm sure we'll hear from him soon as this is surely an issue with which he needs to become involved.
Bing, blanket referring to those that stand and sing as morons isn't going to help any argument.
Recently you posted considerably about the 'old days' when you travelled when you was a younger lad, and most of the stories involved fights, coshes and knives. Not saying in anyway you were involved in that, but the point i'm trying to get accross is that there has always been an element to 'football travelling' that is a bit of a lads day out.
Fortunately the trouble element has been considerably pushed out the game, but you will always have an element of largely younger lads that will have a day out, have a few pints and want to stand together and sing. As said, abusing others around you is completely wrong, but if we attempt to drive this element out of travelling, then following Charlton away will be little different to going to the cinema or the theatre.
The only workable compromise is to try and seperate the two as much as slyly possible.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]Bing, blanket referring to those that stand and sing as morons isn't going to help any argument.
The only workable compromise is to try and seperate the two as much as slyly possible.
Of course all those who stand are not morons, far from it. However, I was next to a group of 'fans' whom I'm quite happy to describe as imbeciles. To seperate these groups 'slyly' will involve assistance from the Club and I'm not sure they'll want to get involved on any level as they can't be seen to condone, let alone encourage, law breaking.
In the meantime wouldn't it just be easier if someone asks you politely to sit then out of respect you sit. Simple.
Well let's appoint some people at Blackburn to sort it out. If I am allocated seats near the back, I will quite happily swap for ones nearer the front.
If we are sensible about this we can sort it out and everyone will be happy.
[cite]Posted By: DJ Davey Dave[/cite]Well let's appoint some people at Blackburn to sort it out. If I am allocated seats near the back, I will quite happily swap for ones nearer the front.
If we are sensible about this we can sort it out and everyone will be happy.
surely it'll easier if when you ring/go to the Commercial Centre you request tickets at the back or at the front. If the Club keep say 1,000 aside for those who say they want tickets at the back then that should alleviate the problem.
[cite]Posted By: Stu of SE7[/cite]Yes it is a fact, you can produce more noise standing that you can sitting.
And this "fact " is based on........? Has there been a study with some authority on this or is this just assertion masquerading as fact for the purpose of helping a case?
[cite]Posted By: Stu of SE7[/cite]just means I'm someone who enjoys watching football a different way from you, a little compromise from both sides would go along way to having this problem resolved.
Why should people who have absolute right by law and design of stadia, compromise with those who don't have any rights in this regard? I used to smoke, if I still did, I would not like the rule that prohibits smoking in the seated areas of the ground. I would have a choice, not to smoke there or not to go. There is no compromise position. The no smoking law is applied and "policed" pretty well. Our club and others chose to ensure they enforce that rule.
It's the muddled approach that Citeh deployed of trying to stop only away fans from standing that undermines the rules which should be enforced. It's also the way that our club "bottled it", when dealing with Manure, that undermines the position. They should have gone through with their threat and banned them all in my view. Why should anarchy be allowed to prevail just because a bunch of non prawn sandwich eating pr*cks wish to impose their view of the world on "our" patch which they would be instantly banned from ever doing at their own ground? Some of our fans are in danger of going down the same road.
Personally I will always tend to chose seats over standing but I recognise that others wish to have the option to stand. I have signed both the safe-standing petitions. Why doesn't everyone of those on this thread who wish to stand do likewise? Perhaps like Wimbledon fans have done recently, go onto other clubs fan sites encouraging them to do likewise. That is the best way forward.
Comments
WE WERE AT WATFORD AND SAW ALL THE CRAP THERE BUT IT DIDN'T AFFECT US SO I WASN'T BOTHERED.
That's ok then DJDD, as long as you weren't affected.....:-)
At the Citeh game with my lad, I really wanted to kick up a fuss but it's very difficult if you are sitting twenty rows back and the guy in front is only standing because he can't see. You can complain to the Stewards but, in fairness, they were trying as hard as possible to get people to sit. What do you do? Start punching those around you - not a great example to your kid. Start mouthing off to all and sundry? Also not a great example. This is why this has to be stopped now. It cannot be self-policed. The only way to stop it is for the travelling club to make it clear to its fans that they risk being blacklisted for tickets if they stand and for the home club to enforce the safety rules in all areas of the ground,
Let us all then get behind the safe standing campaign. I'm sure that pressure can be brought to change the rules as frankly there is no logical argument why such areas cannot, in the modern post Hillsborough age, be provided.
I have read your comments on this over the past few months and agree with EVERYTHING you say. However in a dog eat dog world you have to look after No.1. It really pisses me off that this is the case but it is.
I do not come across all the complete wankers at the Valley that I do away because I hope most of them are banned from our ground. I saw such complete prats at Watford and Arsenal this year and in previous seasons.
I will take NO SHIT from any pissed up baseball cap wearing idiot at Ewood or any old druken git either.
Fortunately perhaps for everybody concerned they displayed their immense commitment to CAFC by leaving after an hour or so once it became evident that we were going to lose.
My daughter and I drove up for the Middlesbrough Cup Tie and, apart from the result, enjoyed the experience. She expressed an interest in going to some away games on the strength of that. The people we encountered at the Spurs game diluted her enthusiasm to travel away though.
I'm not sure though that I'm going to gamble on travelling to Blackburn with her just in case we get stuck behind the obnoxious element again.
Football is meant to be an enjoyable hobby not a place where you run the risk of getting into a scrap.
It seems to me that anybody who shows any sort of consideration to other fans and isn't abusive is dismissed as a "flask."
So be it I'm a flask and from reading much of this thread and similar threads in the "other place" people like me are not welcome on away trips.
It's time we reclaimed the AWAY games from the THUGS/CHAVS/DRUNKS.
I will NOT tolorate it any further and will involve Stewards and Old Bill - Or move my kids down the front like I used to do!
...and in what way do they belong to you more than any other person who has bought a ticket. if someone stands are they outamatically a thug/chav/drunk, NO. just like if someone sits they are not necesessarily a 'flasker'. If you want to get rid of anyone that stands at an away game you can kiss goodbye to any form of atmosphere. it is a fact that standing areas make more noise than sitting. In fact if we take a look at the valley? you can narrow down the majority of the noise making to two blocks, funnily enough they stand.
In my eyes you are just as bad as those dishing out abuse to those who sit. we are all charlton fans and the only logical thing is to try and move forward with a workable solution.
I was just trying to show how selfish people can be.
'...drunken louts....drunken thugs...etc
these are not fair accusations. I just watched around 98% of Pompey's 2000 travelling support stand for the entire 90 minutes, despite them getting stuffed. It was a lunchtime KO, so they wouldn't of been 'drunk' and wouldn't all of been 'louts'.
Those that reply to requests to sit down and reply with foul mouthed abuse are bang out of order, but equally so are those that request to sit down in a foul mouthed way, and especially those that don't request but simply grab someone by the shoulder.
We have less 'drunken louts' and 'drunken thugs' than near enough every other team in the top flight, and we shouldn't forget that.'
Sorry Afka but I disagree. The guy who consistantly stood in front of my parents wasn't drunk but was just a abusive, ignorant individual. However, a group to my right were the most obnioxious group of football 'fans' I have come across. Drunk as skunks they spent the whole time abusing the Mancs to our right and if we'd scored I doubt they'd have noticed. On top of this this then called those sitting 'scum' and 'letting them down'. What a larf. I can hardly be described as a wrinkly at 43 and I listen to dance music on my ipod and occasionally get drunk myself but when I do I don't go around abusing others and spoiling their enjoyment of a game they've paid £27 to watch. Unfortunately we seem to be attracting a most unwelcome element at the moment and I don't think they do anything to enhance the atmosphere as they don't sing to support the team but to antagonise the opposition fans. If they sat they could sing equally well.
I agree that we need to encourage the Club to try and get all those that want to sing loudly (a euphanism for want to stand) together and all it would take is the Box Office staff to allocate anyone who wants to 'sing' seats at the back and those that want to 'see' seats from the front. Then anyone who stands when seated at the front will just have to put up with it.
With that amount of tickets, the club should look to sell them in a way that keeps flasks away from the people there who want a different experience from there football games.
and if Rome and Seville showed anything, it was that seats don't mean good behaviour, and it's how you police a game which is more important
I agree and we need to find a solution to this problem. I am in favour of safe standing at grounds but the fact is at the moment the law says you have to sit and so if you are asked politely by another fan to sit then you should comply even if you'd rather not. IF we could get all those who want to stand together then there isn't a problem. At the moment though there is. My Dad is 75, and can't physically stand for 90 minutes, and at 5ft 6'' is at a disadvantage anyway. He sings more than most of the 'singing' brigade and has never, ever taken a flask or blanket to football. He won't have a problem at Blackburn though. He's been driven away and isn't going. Charlton's loss I'm afraid.
Think a few people are making sweeping generalisations of fans on both sides, not all people who want to sit are Flasks, but neither are all those that want to stand drunken savages. Apparently according to a few of you I fall into the latter category which I assure you I do not.
PS There's plenty of 'ignorant b***ards who 'siddarn' as well as stand. Without getting behind the team. The boat summed it up well - where does most of the noise start at The Valley? The blocks half of which are standing!!
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/StandUpSitDown/
One is tempted to conclude from this statistic that an aggressive, vociferous minority is seeking to impose its views on the majority of fans who are perfectly happy sitting.
For the sake of clarification I have no problem with standing provided that "sitters" are properly given precedence and not aggressively abused.
Is it a "fact"? Where's the science that allows that conclusion?
Is it only "two blocks" that make the majority of noise?
What is a fact is that being amongst fans who are making loud noise drowns out any noise from any other source. I've been to so many away games over the years where I have been convinced that the only noise was coming from our fans. When I talk to mates supporting the opposition, they say the same about their fans. An exact case in point was the recent Hamsters game when a number who sit in the North Stand came on here claiming not to have heard the Hamsters fans much, if at all. Yet those of us who sit in the East Stand relatively close to the Hammers fans could hear the loud support they were making throughout the game.
The relative silence demonstrated by our fans in recent years is largely as a result of the "mid table mediocrity" which was served up rather than whether people stand or sit.
It's true that Pompey have a following of "loud" fans. Some of that comes from their history with the Pompey chimes, and a lot comes from the kind of tough macho-bonehead following that they get of the sort we all hate in those who follow the Spanners. If the price of stopping us becoming another Pompey is strict enforcement of the seating regs then bring it on I say?
Yes it is a fact, you can produce more noise standing that you can sitting.
As I stated before I stand, I have no problem sitting if my stnading was affecting someone else. However this generalisation that just because I stand I must be some drunken granny killing thug is actually quite offensive.
Standing doesnt make me the spawn of satan, it just means I'm someone who enjoys watching football a different way from you, a little compromise from both sides would go along way to having this problem resolved.
Large and Jimmy, this is a very unhappy situation which I sincerely hope can be remedied for your Dad and countless others. I really think that Ben as supporter director shouldn't be silent about this blatant outrageous treatment of a loyal fan. Come on Ben/ Henry, if you cannot talk about specifics, can you reassure us that the club will take steps to root out these morons? It would not be difficult to work out who was allocated the seats so that the people causing this problem can be identified ? If you can't post on here because it's too public, then PM me here or e mail my private e mail address which you have and let me know what the club intends to do.
Stu, I for one am NOT branding all those who stand as granny bashing thugs, far from it. Neither should we brand all those that wish to sit as flask carrying, blanket wearers. However, on Friday I was called 'scum' and told I was 'letting them down' by some who stood behind me and our only crime was asking (politely) someone in front of us to sit so that we could see. Compromise is the way forward but there was no compromise with those idiots I encountered of Friday and I accept they are a minority.
Bing, I don't want this to become a 'my Dad' issue because it is an issue which severely affects many, many others especailly those like DJDD who take their kids. It needs resolving to the satisfaction of all concerned. I am surprised that Ben hasn't interjected yet but I'm sure we'll hear from him soon as this is surely an issue with which he needs to become involved.
Not that I'm any less guilty than anyone else I must add
Recently you posted considerably about the 'old days' when you travelled when you was a younger lad, and most of the stories involved fights, coshes and knives. Not saying in anyway you were involved in that, but the point i'm trying to get accross is that there has always been an element to 'football travelling' that is a bit of a lads day out.
Fortunately the trouble element has been considerably pushed out the game, but you will always have an element of largely younger lads that will have a day out, have a few pints and want to stand together and sing. As said, abusing others around you is completely wrong, but if we attempt to drive this element out of travelling, then following Charlton away will be little different to going to the cinema or the theatre.
The only workable compromise is to try and seperate the two as much as slyly possible.
The proper petition signed by over 10,000?
Of course all those who stand are not morons, far from it. However, I was next to a group of 'fans' whom I'm quite happy to describe as imbeciles. To seperate these groups 'slyly' will involve assistance from the Club and I'm not sure they'll want to get involved on any level as they can't be seen to condone, let alone encourage, law breaking.
In the meantime wouldn't it just be easier if someone asks you politely to sit then out of respect you sit. Simple.
If we are sensible about this we can sort it out and everyone will be happy.
surely it'll easier if when you ring/go to the Commercial Centre you request tickets at the back or at the front. If the Club keep say 1,000 aside for those who say they want tickets at the back then that should alleviate the problem.
And this "fact " is based on........? Has there been a study with some authority on this or is this just assertion masquerading as fact for the purpose of helping a case?
Why should people who have absolute right by law and design of stadia, compromise with those who don't have any rights in this regard? I used to smoke, if I still did, I would not like the rule that prohibits smoking in the seated areas of the ground. I would have a choice, not to smoke there or not to go. There is no compromise position. The no smoking law is applied and "policed" pretty well. Our club and others chose to ensure they enforce that rule.
It's the muddled approach that Citeh deployed of trying to stop only away fans from standing that undermines the rules which should be enforced. It's also the way that our club "bottled it", when dealing with Manure, that undermines the position. They should have gone through with their threat and banned them all in my view. Why should anarchy be allowed to prevail just because a bunch of non prawn sandwich eating pr*cks wish to impose their view of the world on "our" patch which they would be instantly banned from ever doing at their own ground? Some of our fans are in danger of going down the same road.
Personally I will always tend to chose seats over standing but I recognise that others wish to have the option to stand. I have signed both the safe-standing petitions. Why doesn't everyone of those on this thread who wish to stand do likewise? Perhaps like Wimbledon fans have done recently, go onto other clubs fan sites encouraging them to do likewise. That is the best way forward.