but its fine saying that, but then you are suggesting draconian measures, that in reality are unworkable. 95% of drivers break those speed limits, like the majority of away travellers at other premiership clubs stand for the vast majority of a game.
If Charlton are the only club to take a hard stance on this, out of line with every other prem club, then all we will do is lose yet another generation of travelling youngsters to other clubs.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]but its fine saying that, but then you are suggesting draconian measures, that in reality are unworkable. 95% of drivers break those speed limits, like the majority of away travellers at other premiership clubs stand for the vast majority of a game.
If Charlton are the only club to take a hard stance on this, out of line with every other prem club, then all we will do is lose yet another generation of travelling youngsters to other clubs.
It's not something I want. I stand too BUT if there is a clash of interests the "sitters" must have precedence under the law as it stands and should not be subjected to abuse.
Have to carry this on after our win against Reading (I hope!!) as I've got to set off now!
[cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]What? Do you never accept another argument if it doesn't suit you AFKA?
I don't see how this is a personal interest anyway. I prefer to stand too. I actually try to make my Mum try and understand why people want to stand because I understand this too.
That's what consideration and respect is - you listen to other arguments and make a fair conclusion and decision.
The decision has been to have seating.
If people feel strongly enough otherwise then campaign for safe standing.
As for the motorway thing - you've enforced my point. I don't agree with 30mph in some areas but unless I respect it I sometimes get a fine. As someone said earlier, if you stand at Man U you get chucked out. Good law enforcement.
No, i'm a stubborn sod, and so are you :-)
I have a different view to you, and simply replying with my point. You may not think i have a point, but i'm sure there are others that do, and that's healthy debate, and its good we can get a discussion going from both points of view.
Throughout this whole thread, i've been the only one to offer a short-term solution; that for games that are likely to be close to selling out individuals when booking, and the club when selling, try to skew it that those who may possibly stand for parts of the game ask for tickets near the back, those that want to sit throughout ask for tickets near the front.
As for Man U being good enforcers, it is only easy to force when there is only a handful of people standing, like with Charlton away, than it is with 1000 - 2000 people standing at virtually every other away following in the prem.
[cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]Oh Ok then AFKA, let's stand up and tell those who can't to bugger off!
Very nice.
Then you're clearly not reading my replies. See the one that started ......drunken louts.. for my view on that.
And before you call in the secret police to chop my legs off, my preference is to stand, i always will if others are around me, but equally i would always respect a polite request to sit down from someone behind. And the only people i would be likely to bad mouth would be those who were abusive to other fans.
You can have a different point to me by all means but you're effectively defending the indefensible.
The only sensible thing you've said is the short-term solution. I think if the club can discreetly seperate people then that would be the answer until safe seating make a glorious entrance to our grounds.
What do we do if the short term solution gets found out though?
[cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]What do we do if the short term solution gets found out though?
cross that bridge when we come to it. At least the club would be looking to put its supporters enjoyment first.
I just can't see a few people standing up at a football match as 'indefensible' the same way i don't see someone driving at 74mph on an empty motorway as a force of evil. Not when its being repeated to a far greater extent all around the country.
[quote][cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]To use this anology we're not talking about an empty motorway. We're talking about doing 74mph in heavy traffic when there's a snowy blizzard.[/quote]
To repeat my comments upthread...the fans have to self-police the situation so that the standing contingent automatically move to the back of a block and those who want to sit move to the front. We need to make it an unofficial rule that the back three/four rows are standing seats to remove doubt.
Does the away club ever provide stewards? If so can't they be in charge of unofficially brokering this?
If the numbers sitting/standing cannot be reconciled then those standing have to sit, to continue standing when you are obscuring the views of those who wish to remain seated is pure ignorance.
I think BFR has summed up what the general consensus on the subject is.
So who is an insider in the club and can get the ball rolling on our discreet standing/sitting seat allocation? As long as we don't make it a public thing and the club never actually admits to it then surely the club can't be held to account over it.
It can just be a sort of in club thing.. I go to the ticket office, can i have 3 adult tickets to everton please. I would prefer them near the back.
Old man Melrose.. can i have 3 adult tickets to everton please.. i would prefer them near the front.
As long as the ticket office oblige then this should improve the situation dramatically although i admit it won't iron out all problems.
[cite]Posted By: The Boat[/cite]I think BFR has summed up what the general consensus on the subject is.
So who is an insider in the club and can get the ball rolling on our discreet standing/sitting seat allocation?
As long as we don't make it a public thing and the club never actually admits to it then surely the club can't be held to account over it.
It can just be a sort of in club thing.. I go to the ticket office, can i have 3 adult tickets to everton please. I would prefer them near the back.
Old man Melrose.. can i have 3 adult tickets to everton please.. i would prefer them near the front.
As long as the ticket office oblige then this should improve the situation dramatically although i admit it won't iron out all problems.
[cite]Posted By: The Boat[/cite]I think BFR has summed up what the general consensus on the subject is.
So who is an insider in the club and can get the ball rolling on our discreet standing/sitting seat allocation?
As long as we don't make it a public thing and the club never actually admits to it then surely the club can't be held to account over it.
It can just be a sort of in club thing.. I go to the ticket office, can i have 3 adult tickets to everton please. I would prefer them near the back.
Old man Melrose.. can i have 3 adult tickets to everton please.. i would prefer them near the front.
As long as the ticket office oblige then this should improve the situation dramatically although i admit it won't iron out all problems.
A sensible solution - while i have some sympathy for the siddarn brigade especially those with medical conditions - it would be a shame if our away support further degenerated to an audience of quietly grumbling, flask sipping, sat down spectators. Surely those old enough & with time served as genuine football fans will recognise the age old desire of fans to stand while watching football - i don't expect the newer converts used to following carpet bowls or lawn tennis to appreciate this heritage.
[cite]Posted By: The Boat[/cite]whether the flaskers like it or not
Calling those who want legitimately to sit as "flaskers" is the same sweeping generalisation others calling those who want to stand as "drunks". People who want to sit in seats they have paid for cannot be accused of as being in the wrong by those who stand in contravention of the stadium safety regs and the laws of decency. If people arguing to condone the standing cannot see this then there really is something badly wrong. Let us all get behind safe standing areas so that the legitimate desire of some fans to stand can be accommodated. In the meantime sit down.
In Italy it is common to see a fan with a megaphone co-ordinating chants & visual displays. Can Henry do the same? Just before KO he could call over the megaphone for a show of hands - those that want to stand, those that want to sit. During a break in play - preferably after one of ELK's free kicks whilst the ball boys are fishing the ball out of a nearby river/housing estate/car park - we should be able to reorganise seating arrangements to suit both parties.
[cite]Posted By: The Boat[/cite] are you arguing that those that want to stand should sit down regardless of whether they are obstructing others?
Yes.
There is no other answer until the Authorities relent and allow safe standing areas. All talk of secret ticket allocations and fans doing deals with other fans is just fantasy. Our club is actively seeking to stop/restrict fans of clubs like Manure from standing and are thus never going to acquiesce to this sort of thing.
Personally I think the club should send a message to all travelling fans demanding that they agree to the stadium rules otherwise they will risk not qualifying for tickets. This is the only way to deal with the intimidatory tactics used by fans who defiantly stand regardless of the wishes of the majority. If we don't do this, the Manure type anarchy will prevail. It has to be done now otherwise it will get increasingly out of hand and we'll end up with many decent fans opting out like Mr Melrose Senior.
At Citeh, my son sat immediately behind a senior member of the Addicks back room staff. He was forced to stand in order to see, just as I was. He was clearly embarrassed that my son could not see through him and moved so the my son had a slightly better view. It has come to a ludicrous farce that even club officials have to resort to this. I believe that because of the actions of some fans at Citeh and the poor stewarding approach taken in the ground, this matter will now be taken up at a board level. Watch this space for the announcement of a tightening of the rules for away supporters.
fair point,though just before song went off,he put some decent passes through,just fancied us for a bit,we were getting on top,lisbie comes on the whole game slows.
[cite]Posted By: lucy lou[/cite]its sad that people talk about this after a football game concerning relegation,very fucking sad.
If you'd care to read, you will see that I was responding to reply to a post I made before the game. If you want to talk about the game why don't you stick to the threads about the game? If you did you'd see that I have posted on there as well. Please don't try and hijack a legitimate thread about an important issue about certain fans rudeness and discourtesy by a post which demonstrates your own rudeness and discourtesy.
This thread was bearing fruit until it got rudely interrupted. If I remember rightly, someone was asking for Henry Irving to comment. Henry, where are you?
Comments
If Charlton are the only club to take a hard stance on this, out of line with every other prem club, then all we will do is lose yet another generation of travelling youngsters to other clubs.
Very nice.
I think your idea of 'travelling youngsters' is really blinkered. Many youngsters are those who have their view blocked.
By the way: how do you define 'lout'? I suggest you use a modern English dictionary.
It's not something I want. I stand too BUT if there is a clash of interests the "sitters" must have precedence under the law as it stands and should not be subjected to abuse.
Have to carry this on after our win against Reading (I hope!!) as I've got to set off now!
No, i'm a stubborn sod, and so are you :-)
I have a different view to you, and simply replying with my point. You may not think i have a point, but i'm sure there are others that do, and that's healthy debate, and its good we can get a discussion going from both points of view.
Throughout this whole thread, i've been the only one to offer a short-term solution; that for games that are likely to be close to selling out individuals when booking, and the club when selling, try to skew it that those who may possibly stand for parts of the game ask for tickets near the back, those that want to sit throughout ask for tickets near the front.
As for Man U being good enforcers, it is only easy to force when there is only a handful of people standing, like with Charlton away, than it is with 1000 - 2000 people standing at virtually every other away following in the prem.
Then you're clearly not reading my replies. See the one that started ......drunken louts.. for my view on that.
And before you call in the secret police to chop my legs off, my preference is to stand, i always will if others are around me, but equally i would always respect a polite request to sit down from someone behind. And the only people i would be likely to bad mouth would be those who were abusive to other fans.
The only sensible thing you've said is the short-term solution. I think if the club can discreetly seperate people then that would be the answer until safe seating make a glorious entrance to our grounds.
What do we do if the short term solution gets found out though?
cross that bridge when we come to it. At least the club would be looking to put its supporters enjoyment first.
I just can't see a few people standing up at a football match as 'indefensible' the same way i don't see someone driving at 74mph on an empty motorway as a force of evil. Not when its being repeated to a far greater extent all around the country.
To repeat my comments upthread...the fans have to self-police the situation so that the standing contingent automatically move to the back of a block and those who want to sit move to the front. We need to make it an unofficial rule that the back three/four rows are standing seats to remove doubt.
Does the away club ever provide stewards? If so can't they be in charge of unofficially brokering this?
If the numbers sitting/standing cannot be reconciled then those standing have to sit, to continue standing when you are obscuring the views of those who wish to remain seated is pure ignorance.
So who is an insider in the club and can get the ball rolling on our discreet standing/sitting seat allocation?
As long as we don't make it a public thing and the club never actually admits to it then surely the club can't be held to account over it.
It can just be a sort of in club thing.. I go to the ticket office, can i have 3 adult tickets to everton please. I would prefer them near the back.
Old man Melrose.. can i have 3 adult tickets to everton please.. i would prefer them near the front.
As long as the ticket office oblige then this should improve the situation dramatically although i admit it won't iron out all problems.
Agree 100%
A sensible solution - while i have some sympathy for the siddarn brigade especially those with medical conditions - it would be a shame if our away support further degenerated to an audience of quietly grumbling, flask sipping, sat down spectators. Surely those old enough & with time served as genuine football fans will recognise the age old desire of fans to stand while watching football - i don't expect the newer converts used to following carpet bowls or lawn tennis to appreciate this heritage.
So who is an insider in the club and can get the ball rolling on our discreet standing/sitting seat allocation?
[/quote]
Where's the Fans' Director when you need him?
Calling those who want legitimately to sit as "flaskers" is the same sweeping generalisation others calling those who want to stand as "drunks". People who want to sit in seats they have paid for cannot be accused of as being in the wrong by those who stand in contravention of the stadium safety regs and the laws of decency. If people arguing to condone the standing cannot see this then there really is something badly wrong. Let us all get behind safe standing areas so that the legitimate desire of some fans to stand can be accommodated. In the meantime sit down.
Yes.
There is no other answer until the Authorities relent and allow safe standing areas. All talk of secret ticket allocations and fans doing deals with other fans is just fantasy. Our club is actively seeking to stop/restrict fans of clubs like Manure from standing and are thus never going to acquiesce to this sort of thing.
Personally I think the club should send a message to all travelling fans demanding that they agree to the stadium rules otherwise they will risk not qualifying for tickets. This is the only way to deal with the intimidatory tactics used by fans who defiantly stand regardless of the wishes of the majority. If we don't do this, the Manure type anarchy will prevail. It has to be done now otherwise it will get increasingly out of hand and we'll end up with many decent fans opting out like Mr Melrose Senior.
At Citeh, my son sat immediately behind a senior member of the Addicks back room staff. He was forced to stand in order to see, just as I was. He was clearly embarrassed that my son could not see through him and moved so the my son had a slightly better view. It has come to a ludicrous farce that even club officials have to resort to this. I believe that because of the actions of some fans at Citeh and the poor stewarding approach taken in the ground, this matter will now be taken up at a board level. Watch this space for the announcement of a tightening of the rules for away supporters.
Sad but predictable.
I'd of brought on Romm and pushed Ambrose inside.
If you'd care to read, you will see that I was responding to reply to a post I made before the game. If you want to talk about the game why don't you stick to the threads about the game? If you did you'd see that I have posted on there as well. Please don't try and hijack a legitimate thread about an important issue about certain fans rudeness and discourtesy by a post which demonstrates your own rudeness and discourtesy.