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£150 season tickets

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  • Why all this jealousy. The offer was there and I took it. Getting a cheaper seat next to dearer ones happens everywhere. I don't pay for my prescriptions, is that wrong. I'm looking forward to having a good old sing song next year with a different set of fans.
  • edited March 2014
    Addickted said:

    I wouldn't be surprised (if we stay in this league) to see the ST numbers increase next year by about 10%, though the income from sales drop by £1m - the various offers are just too good in some parts of the ground.

    It's not really possible to drop £1m in season-ticket revenue because the revenue this season is likely to have been of the order of £2.25m (net of VAT) and it would have been lower next season at the same prices, because of the current season, IMO.

    The average revenue per ticket is pulled down by the fact about 45 per cent of season tickets are sold as concessions and within that U18/U12 tickets remain very cheap. On the positive side selling more adult season tickets will drag in more junior concessions, the price of which are largely unchanged.

    I think sales may well increase by volume over this season, but it would be surprising if revenue does, especially given the loss of match ticket sales implicit in pricing back in people who would otherwise have been casual purchasers and the big price reductions for a significant minority of people retaining their existing seats.



  • Get off your high horse chaps


    The club have opened themselves up to this by having the most ridiculous pricing system possible

    Why someone 25 yards away from me should pay a third of what I do to watch the same rubbish is plain daft and they risk alienating those people in the process

    They could quite simply have reduced all areas of the ground by £25 and made a really cheap area in the North Lower which is surely where we want the most noise to come from, having 30 or so lads in A block getting laughed at by 3000 Gillingham fans next season isn't the answer to the atmosphere problem if the club think there is one



    why should i pay twice as much for my holidays 'cos i won't take kids at schooltime. It's a cruel world.
  • edited March 2014

    Get off your high horse chaps

    The club have opened themselves up to this by having the most ridiculous pricing system possible

    Why someone 25 yards away from me should pay a third of what I do to watch the same rubbish is plain daft and they risk alienating those people in the process

    They could quite simply have reduced all areas of the ground by £25 and made a really cheap area in the North Lower which is surely where we want the most noise to come from, having 30 or so lads in A block getting laughed at by 3000 Gillingham fans next season isn't the answer to the atmosphere problem if the club think there is one

    Cheers mate I take that as a compliment :-)
  • edited March 2014
    At least it will be 30 or so lads with some balls to sit near the away end and not hide in the top of the north stand where nobody can hear or see you.....
  • Why all this jealousy. The offer was there and I took it. Getting a cheaper seat next to dearer ones happens everywhere. I don't pay for my prescriptions, is that wrong. I'm looking forward to having a good old sing song next year with a different set of fans.

    Not got a problem with that at all. The problem is fans buying a Seat in Block A for £150 and then sitting in another more expensive seat in another block. That is bang out of order and the Club have made a ricket.

  • But the above could happen at any ground in the world.
  • How many does Block A hold?
  • edited March 2014
    MSE7 said:

    But the above could happen at any ground in the world.

    I doubt if there is any other club offering a £300 incentive to cheat in a stand with so many empty seats, quite simply because it's a daft thing to do. However, most people are honest and if they aren't will have exaggerated concerns of being caught out - the bigger issue for me is that the club is inviting people to pay less than they otherwise would, in some cases simply by staying put and all cases by moving seats.

    You could argue that the latter has always been true in that people could move to the north or the quadrants from the east and west, but that was within a clearly defined hierarchy of facilities, which is no longer the case.
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  • Why all this jealousy. The offer was there and I took it. Getting a cheaper seat next to dearer ones happens everywhere. I don't pay for my prescriptions, is that wrong. I'm looking forward to having a good old sing song next year with a different set of fans.

    Why don't you pay for prescriptions?

  • Well, I've done it. Hopefully I won't regret it ;)
  • edited March 2014

    MSE7 said:

    But the above could happen at any ground in the world.

    I doubt if there is any other club offering a £300 incentive to cheat in a stand with so many empty seats, quite simply because it's a daft thing to do. However, most people are honest and if they aren't will have exaggerated concerns of being caught out - the bigger issue for me is that the club is inviting people to pay less than they otherwise would, in some cases simply by staying put and all cases by moving seats.

    You could argue that the latter has always been true in that people could move to the north or the quadrants from the east and west, but that was within a clearly defined hierarchy of facilities, which is no longer the case.
    Boiling that all down you are saying your biggest concern is that fans will pay less than last season "in some cases by staying put"
    Please allow me to introduce a different angle... The club under a new owner have introduced across the board price reductions in the less populated areas of the ground. So the north upper and central sections of the East and west are reduced due to inflation and the rest of the ground is £1-300 cheaper!
    More sales, more fans what's not to like?!
    My family will be buying an additional adult ticket for next season.
    It is unfortunate but your concern about FFP is not dissimilar to Slater! The club is so far below the limits that this will make no difference... Slater used FFP as an excuse for not renewing Fuller. And perhaps (conjecture) not signing Kermorgant.
    Put another way there is plenty of headroom in the summer for the club to improve the squad and associated costs, reduce prices and still be well under the limits. AND BE COMPETITIVE!
    This new pricing package might well reverse years of decline in season ticket sales as long as we stay up. The new owner is worth €500M so I am not unduly worried about his pocket and the odd 500K in reduced income.
    Time to think bigger picture perhaps?

  • edited March 2014

    MSE7 said:

    But the above could happen at any ground in the world.

    I doubt if there is any other club offering a £300 incentive to cheat in a stand with so many empty seats, quite simply because it's a daft thing to do. However, most people are honest and if they aren't will have exaggerated concerns of being caught out - the bigger issue for me is that the club is inviting people to pay less than they otherwise would, in some cases simply by staying put and all cases by moving seats.

    You could argue that the latter has always been true in that people could move to the north or the quadrants from the east and west, but that was within a clearly defined hierarchy of facilities, which is no longer the case.
    Boiling that all down you are saying your biggest concern is that fans will pay less than last season "in some cases by staying put"
    Please allow me to introduce a different angle... The club under a new owner have introduced across the board price reductions in the less populated areas of the ground. So the north upper and central sections of the East and west are reduced due to inflation and the rest of the ground is £1-300 cheaper!
    More sales, more fans what's not to like?!
    My family will be buying an additional adult ticket for next season.
    It is unfortunate but your concern about FFP is not dissimilar to Slater! The club is so far below the limits that this will make no difference... Slater used FFP as an excuse for not renewing Fuller. And perhaps (conjecture) not signing Kermorgant.
    Put another way there is plenty of headroom in the summer for the club to improve the squad and associated costs, reduce prices and still be well under the limits. AND BE COMPETITIVE!
    This new pricing package might well reverse years of decline in season ticket sales as long as we stay up. The new owner is worth €500M so I am not unduly worried about his pocket and the odd 500K in reduced income.
    Time to think bigger picture perhaps?

    Yet this is at completely at odds with your own previous narrative about the need to reduce the operating loss, which I'm afraid seems to me to be because you follow whatever line is being fed to you at the time from within the club.

    You have been the one arguing about FFP, others including me pointed out that the club was well under the limit for losses as long as money went in as equity and both Slater and the club, in its published explanation, were pretending that the equity element did not exist.

    A basic fact for you, which you contradict above - season ticket sales increased between 2010/11 and 2011/12 (marginally) and again between 2011/12 and 2012/13 (substantially). So the current "years of decline" actually amounts to one year - the present season.

    Unlike in all previous cases, however, this was triggered by a price increase and revenue will not have declined, it will have gone up.

    What's not to like? Less income for the club, a less manageable (i.e. more expensive to manage) stadium, and a lower income base to come from in the future.

    East blocks C, F, G, and west B, have plenty of season-ticket holders who will see price cuts ranging from £65-£90. They are not "less populated" than the lower north blocks by any stretch of the imagination. Others will move into these blocks and cheaper ones - as anecdotally we already know they are.

    Every existing adult season ticket holder buying in East block A is reducing their spend by at least 50 per cent. So even if half the purchasers there are entirely new fans who would never have bought a match ticket if they hadn't bought a season ticket, that is a net loss of income.

    And back in the real world, few people go from zero attendance to season ticket. So the revenue from new purchasers has to be set against the match ticket income that will be forfeited.

    In my experience, you can price people into buying a season ticket but whether they actually attend more matches is another matter entirely. Our gates are frequently 2,500-4,000 under the announced figure and much of that is season-ticket holders not attending, which doesn't suggest they are worried about the current price.

    Elsewhere you are still cheerleading the Crossbars offer, claiming it will eventually double the number of people currently in there. We'll see, because it depends on establishing more demand for lounge capacity than there was in the PL. When the board decided to charge for Floyd's - as it then was - the club sold FOUR tickets.

    I do agree that in the end the lost revenue is unlikely to exceed £500k, (in fact it is likely to be much less). But you can't argue both for making the club more self-sustaining and that widening the losses doesn't matter. Even when the wind changes.
  • edited March 2014
    Thanks for the response... I'm glad we agree that lost revenue is the owners prerogative / calculation. I will go further when time allows to give a view on what we are currently witnessing but there are so many changes and variables I hope you will allow time to clarify some thoughts.
    I have always stated that the club needs to be sustainable but that is not synonymous with breakeven ... More later...
    Fully understand your point about seats not taken up but I could suggest that the first way to create scarcity and build gates is to get as many seats as possible "reserved". And then, on a different tack, improve performance and results on the pitch.
    To be very clear the only narrative I am pursuing is an upwards trend at CAFC to get us back challenging in the top six. If the club does not it will surely whither and die?!
    On FFP I have been consistent - clubs cheating should be penalised which in turn should reduce agent/players demands AND that there is headroom for CAFC to expand losses in pursuit of longer term growth (and survival). Six months ago the Trust made an attempt to forecast CAFC finances with very little commentary - simple explanation of the numbers leaving commentators such as yourself to add your take, I.e. Not lead debate nor dictate to the fans. The irony is that CAFC finances have since improved with player sales, a cup run and a far wealthier owner.

    I am no football expert but having a crack at the play offs as and when the owner and club (academy) are ready should be possible within the loss limits - especially if Forest Ipswich and others at the top face sanctions next Christmas.
    And finally there will be a lot more changes over the next 12 months - especially the summer - a lot to be evaluated, interpreted... Some things to be challenged I'm sure but others to be welcomed as a sign of a progressive strategy perhaps?
  • Curb_It said:

    Why all this jealousy. The offer was there and I took it. Getting a cheaper seat next to dearer ones happens everywhere. I don't pay for my prescriptions, is that wrong. I'm looking forward to having a good old sing song next year with a different set of fans.

    Why don't you pay for prescriptions?

    neither do I pay for prescriptions but I don't think that is any concern of yours.

  • Whatever happens, it could be fun and games in the East next season, and sounds like the average age might come down a bit

    And all the time Saint Large Addick will be sitting there with his halo and his £90 cheaper season ticket... :)

  • Whatever happens, it could be fun and games in the East next season, and sounds like the average age might come down a bit

    And all the time Saint Large Addick will be sitting there with his halo and his £90 cheaper season ticket... :)

    And his prescriptions.
  • I don't pay for my prescriptions for the same reason that 1 of my 3 A Block season tickets is £110. I'm of an age dear! I think the average age of A Block just went up again!
  • edited March 2014
    To put some context to these numbers, here are some back of an envelope calculations.

    If we assume that 20 per cent of season-ticket holders sit in blocks with significant reductions, a quarter of these are junior concessions at no change and the average reduction for the rest is £75 net of VAT, that is a reduction in income of £112,500.

    The only significant increase is in two blocks of the lower west, so let's say that's 500 x £50 = £25k.

    Then assume that 750 adults/seniors move seats to target a bigger reduction averaging £100 net = £75k.

    That's a net loss of £162,500, which has to be replaced by additional purchases.

    New season tickets are likely to be bought at a very low average price (including concessions) if they are largely being attracted by the price offer - say £150 net (the average this season is probably around £225-£240). This revenue will be substantially if not wholly offset by lost matchday revenue, ie. tickets that would have been sold anyway.

    What's difficult to evaluate is the contribution of current holders who decide to retain a season ticket because of the price drop, whether they move or not.

    It's also impossible for the club to anticipate the number of movers or how many might be priced in by £250 season tickets, the £150 offer being finite within the likely demand.

    However, underneath all this is the problem that the football - whether defined as performances or results - has been poor and this isn't going to change before April 9th, plus the risk of League One football. It's not all about price.

    While SR predicts higher numbers than this season if we stay up, that can't be known at the deadline and price isn't going to be significant in driving later sales if the lowest adult price point is then £300 - a rate already available this time last year - and north stand seats become dearer than that.

    Other factors may help drive sales, but that's not an argument about the price structure. Indeed, if there is a better "offer" that's an argument against selling cheaper tickets before the "offer" is made clear.

    Edit: Just to add, there is always more movement within the season-ticket numbers than people generally assume. You'd typically get up to 1,000 new season-ticket holders in any year, regardless of price changes, and you'd lose a similar number. It's the net figure that is significant.
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  • I was a season ticket holder until this season but because of work commitments I can only get to 7/8 games per season. I will now be buying a £150 as it makes sense rather than buying on the day
  • edited March 2014

    Curb_It said:

    Why all this jealousy. The offer was there and I took it. Getting a cheaper seat next to dearer ones happens everywhere. I don't pay for my prescriptions, is that wrong. I'm looking forward to having a good old sing song next year with a different set of fans.

    Why don't you pay for prescriptions?

    neither do I pay for prescriptions but I don't think that is any concern of yours.

    Its not any concern of mine and or anyone elses so wondered why he would say it.

    Kind of understand why he did now.





  • Curb_It said:

    Curb_It said:

    Why all this jealousy. The offer was there and I took it. Getting a cheaper seat next to dearer ones happens everywhere. I don't pay for my prescriptions, is that wrong. I'm looking forward to having a good old sing song next year with a different set of fans.

    Why don't you pay for prescriptions?

    neither do I pay for prescriptions but I don't think that is any concern of yours.

    Its not any concern of mine and or anyone elses so wondered why he would say it.

    Kind of understand why he did now.





    I am still unsure of why he said it because it's not a comparable analogy.

    Btw, sorry if you thought my reply rude as it wasn't intended as such.
  • edited March 2014
    I agree that it is both the quality of the football and quite simply winning games that gets people coming back year after year, game after game. If Duchatelet does not find the players to strengthen the squad over the summer then marketing the season tickets then is going to be fun!
    Right now it is about diehard fans being offered discounts on this season and, to put it bluntly, supporting our club. If fans do not buy in increased numbers then this is simply not good. I think the number of fans (including myself) paying the premium price of £400 or above is going to drop radically from perhaps 3,500 to less than 2,000 - because of people moving seats and people (like myself) getting a cheaper deal.
    Conversely the fans paying £250 (or the lucky 500 paying £150) is going to shoot up from perhaps a couple of thousand. Again some of us are receiving discounts to stay put, some will move and most importantly some fans will return after not buying for a year or two. I understand 1,300 dropped out last summer and I expect many of these were because of the price rises. I wonder how many will return?

    The irony is that it's all down to the football now - can we go on a run to secure our Championship status - I think yes. Can we let most of the out of contract players go - a simple yes. Can the club fix the pitch - again yes. And can CAFC managment retain the best 4/5 of the out of contract players AND secure quality replacements to increase the quality of football and the number of wins? And who exactly is in charge of player retention / recruitment. If CAFC cannot work out how to recruit better players then there is a serious problem which no fans can fix.

    It was the sales brochure leaked last summer which was explicit on this: "Many of the players and indeed the manager are out of contract in summer 2014". I believe it was this line which attracted buyers to pay for the club rather than wait for administration. For this states very clearly that CAFC has c. 15 u23 players signed up on long term deals. And the rest can stay or go. Breakeven may have been mentioned really but the only sane strategy, having dropped prices and seen what the current squad can do is to improve it quickly. This in turn might encourage certain players to stay and it will add to the value of our club as we climb the league.

    To me it really is that simple! Better players and cheaper prices will add to the gate. Standing still will be a slow death. So I predict the former but with several bumps as we go - it's the Charlton way!
  • If the A block is a noisy singing block then why would people want to sit elsewhere? Its such good value anyway. I would sit behind a post for a £150 season ticket mate I tell ya that. Plus I get all the benefits of every other season ticket holder!!!

    What a bargain. £150 is. We are the A block we are the A block..........
  • I think most our fans are honest and sit where they are meant to. We have decent fans in that respect.. When you buy a season ticket you want to sit where you have bought the season ticket. You get to know the fans around you. A block is almost sold out BTW
  • Wait and see it A is a noisy block.

    Could be lots of families have thought "what a bargain, we haven't got a team we support but Charlton is nearby and we can go straight to the Valley after the children's ballet lessons in the morning".

    And if the block is sold out then the singers won't be able to congregate together. Could be a lot of Siddaaaan.

    And isn't there a disabled section at the back of block A (or it is B?). mIght not be able to stand in front of them.

    unforeseen consequences, don't you just love them : - )
  • You'll probably get a handful that are buying a cheap ticket only to move along to get a better view, but i think the majority will stay there, sing and try to get a bit of atmosphere going. I don't think we're going to see 400 people trying to move along a couple of blocks.
  • You'll probably get a handful that are buying a cheap ticket only to move along to get a better view, but i think the majority will stay there, sing and try to get a bit of atmosphere going. I don't think we're going to see 400 people trying to move along a couple of blocks.

    image

  • You'll probably get a handful that are buying a cheap ticket only to move along to get a better view, but i think the majority will stay there, sing and try to get a bit of atmosphere going. I don't think we're going to see 400 people trying to move along a couple of blocks.

    Agree that few will plan to move but as above let's wait and see how many want to sing.

    But if some do want to stand and sing and others don't then could the non-singers/standers might think "lot's of empty seats in the other block, I'll shift over there".

    Who knows? We shall see how it works out.

    Personally I think it will be good to have more noise in the East. Might even tempt my 15 year old to go over and join in. Might even have to dig out the big flag for him ; - )
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