It's nothing to do with idolising Powell or demonising RD, and it's not a rumour from disgruntled fans. It's people like Cawley and Varney, who both speak to Powell on a regular basis, reporting the facts of the matter. If you choose not to believe it then that's fine.
But why do fans choose to believe ex employees over the current owner? Why does there have to be a conspiracy before after and during every game. The team selection stands up and this is not QPR fly on the wall with one of the four owners instructing on substitutions FFS! Some people pick up gossip from those near players and Powell and publicise it to show they are close to the action. But I prefer to watch the games and see the news of real activities and announcements. If you spend some time doing that or just read the articulate posters on here then you get a sense of the direction of travel. For me it is good but not fast enough - my guess is things will speed up in the summer. Alternatively you can choose to believe the Daily Mail but afraid I never have and never will!
You can bet G21 have been using this non story as the basis of their crusade
Peter varney is the person I owe the majority of my happy times at cafc too
However if we hadn't had TJ and slater we wouldn't have RD
And who bought the other 2 to the table I believe peter was involved in the deal
RD is here allow him the courtesy of proving PV right instead of second guessing and creating noise from the side but still without actually giving fact and just giving opinion
If I was a gambling man I would suggest that maybe PV has an interest in moving in on RDs purchase
You can bet G21 have been using this non story as the basis of their crusade
Peter varney is the person I owe the majority of my happy times at cafc too
However if we hadn't had TJ and slater we wouldn't have RD
And who bought the other 2 to the table I believe peter was involved in the deal
RD is here allow him the courtesy of proving PV right instead of second guessing and creating noise from the side but still without actually giving fact and just giving opinion
If I was a gambling man I would suggest that maybe PV has an interest in moving in on RDs purchase
A bit of support for thenewbie, although he seems to be managing perfectly well on his own. Here are a couple of quotes from Patrick Collins' article on CP's sacking.
At one point he says “this was the owner who allegedly instructed Powell to select the goalkeeper Yohann Thuram”. Note the "allegedly". Later on we get: “The manager … knew that if he didn’t pick Thuram for the Cup tie with Sheffield United, then he was out of a job”. What was "allegedly" before is now stated as a fact with the additional fact now provided that the alleged pressure became a final ultimatum.
Maybe this is just careless journalism and Collins does know something for a fact. However, the contradiction does, I think, require us to avoid rushing to judgement.
They have been voting with their feet over the last 6 years.....admittedly a few more will have done so since the sacking, but if we start playing good football and get results they will be back.
The only facts I know for sure are the last three games where I have seen every minute of played 3, conceded none and gained 5 points. And in the process we have gone from bottom to out of the bottom three. I have seen early tactical substitutions and different shapes which work with basically the same squad. And I have not seen a below par performance from any player as opposed to what I saw at Bramall lane the other week which was rubbish. As per the RD video today he felt he had to make a decision. And this guy is decisive as we saw with the January transfer window. The number of people "creating noise from the side" is a disgrace. If you don't support our club then go away and my definition of support does not include 24/7 sniping at one aspect of the club or another. If that energy was put to a more creative use then perhaps there might be a few more fans at matches and a few less believing this never ending stream of negative publicity.
A bit of support for thenewbie, although he seems to be managing perfectly well on his own. Here are a couple of quotes from Patrick Collins' article on CP's sacking.
At one point he says “this was the owner who allegedly instructed Powell to select the goalkeeper Yohann Thuram”. Note the "allegedly". Later on we get: “The manager … knew that if he didn’t pick Thuram for the Cup tie with Sheffield United, then he was out of a job”. What was "allegedly" before is now stated as a fact with the additional fact now provided that the alleged pressure became a final ultimatum.
Maybe this is just careless journalism and Collins does know something for a fact. However, the contradiction does, I think, require us to avoid rushing to judgement.
And for Riga's three unbeaten games in charge his keeper has been? Puts a lie to Collins' claim for me.
Thank you Large. Reading what Varney had written prompted me to go back and check what RD had actually said in his inaugural address. Speaking of the need to have rapidly bought players that CP had no say in RD said 'He ( CP) has the option to play them or not to play them.' So many sources are now saying this was untrue and when CP put out a team that he had picked and not the players that he had been told to pick, it led directly to CP's sacking. Asked about where he saw Charlton in a few years, RD said 'You have to be aware that a football club is not just a matter of winning. I know it is important but if you look at football today its a huge social club'. He went on to describe the diverse nature of football supporters and added that 'A football club is the centre of a communion'.
I don't like being misled/lied to and I don't like the vision.
Tonights starting 11 Hamer, Wilson, Wiggins, Morrison, Dervite; Green, Cousins, Jackson, Poyet, Harriott; Church Only Nego and Thuram from the loans supposedly forced upon CP.....
Can we now expect Riga to get the sack for not playing the loanees? I think not. Lets deal in facts and not hearsay. I think the team selection negates your arguement for once and for all.
Not a single network player on the pitch tonight for a single minute - fact
A sign perhaps that Riga is not RDs puppet, but also a sign RD has made some bad transfer moves. If he can improve on them and give us some good talent, then I'll be a happy chappy.
Not a single network player on the pitch tonight for a single minute - fact
A sign perhaps that Riga is not RDs puppet, but also a sign RD has made some bad transfer moves. If he can improve on them and give us some good talent, then I'll be a happy chappy.
Bad transfer moves like Obika who came on and played well? AA whose been one of our better players recently and a lot of striking cover when before we only had 3?
He's been in charge for just over a month, were you expecting a new full team in that time?
The only facts I know for sure are the last three games where I have seen every minute of played 3, conceded none and gained 5 points. And in the process we have gone from bottom to out of the bottom three. I have seen early tactical substitutions and different shapes which work with basically the same squad. And I have not seen a below par performance from any player as opposed to what I saw at Bramall lane the other week which was rubbish. As per the RD video today he felt he had to make a decision. And this guy is decisive as we saw with the January transfer window. The number of people "creating noise from the side" is a disgrace. If you don't support our club then go away and my definition of support does not include 24/7 sniping at one aspect of the club or another. If that energy was put to a more creative use then perhaps there might be a few more fans at matches and a few less believing this never ending stream of negative publicity.
Not a single network player on the pitch tonight for a single minute - fact
A sign perhaps that Riga is not RDs puppet, but also a sign RD has made some bad transfer moves. If he can improve on them and give us some good talent, then I'll be a happy chappy.
Bad transfer moves like Obika who came on and played well? AA whose been one of our better players recently and a lot of striking cover when before we only had 3.
Talking about the network players if you read the post above, Obika isn't a network player. AA is good, when fully fit, yes.
Not a single network player on the pitch tonight for a single minute - fact
A sign perhaps that Riga is not RDs puppet, but also a sign RD has made some bad transfer moves. If he can improve on them and give us some good talent, then I'll be a happy chappy.
Bad transfer moves like Obika who came on and played well? AA whose been one of our better players recently and a lot of striking cover when before we only had 3.
Talking about the network players if you read the post above, Obika isn't a network player. AA is good, when fully fit, yes.
RD still signed him on loan? The network loans were just easy transfers to quickly plug gaps in the squad. Without them our squad depth would be awful with all these games still to go.
Thank you Large. Reading what Varney had written prompted me to go back and check what RD had actually said in his inaugural address. Speaking of the need to have rapidly bought players that CP had no say in RD said 'He ( CP) has the option to play them or not to play them.' So many sources are now saying this was untrue and when CP put out a team that he had picked and not the players that he had been told to pick, it led directly to CP's sacking. Asked about where he saw Charlton in a few years, RD said 'You have to be aware that a football club is not just a matter of winning. I know it is important but if you look at football today its a huge social club'. He went on to describe the diverse nature of football supporters and added that 'A football club is the centre of a communion'.
I don't like being misled/lied to and I don't like the vision.
Tonights starting 11 Hamer, Wilson, Wiggins, Morrison, Dervite; Green, Cousins, Jackson, Poyet, Harriott; Church Only Nego and Thuram from the loans supposedly forced upon CP.....
Can we now expect Riga to get the sack for not playing the loanees? I think not. Lets deal in facts and not hearsay. I think the team selection negates your arguement for once and for all.
I am not one of the conspiracy theorists but let's be clear here, the reason there were no 'network' players tonight was because AA and Reza were injured!
From my POV - and this is where I think Powell got it wrong - Reza and AA are two very decent quality players and maybe he was overly stubborn in not making more of them.
The other thing to consider is that results get you leeway, if JR is winning games then he will be left alone to select whom he likes, if games are lost then questions will be asked by the owner - but that's what happens at most clubs anyway.
Thank you Large. Reading what Varney had written prompted me to go back and check what RD had actually said in his inaugural address. Speaking of the need to have rapidly bought players that CP had no say in RD said 'He ( CP) has the option to play them or not to play them.' So many sources are now saying this was untrue and when CP put out a team that he had picked and not the players that he had been told to pick, it led directly to CP's sacking. Asked about where he saw Charlton in a few years, RD said 'You have to be aware that a football club is not just a matter of winning. I know it is important but if you look at football today its a huge social club'. He went on to describe the diverse nature of football supporters and added that 'A football club is the centre of a communion'.
I don't like being misled/lied to and I don't like the vision.
Tonights starting 11 Hamer, Wilson, Wiggins, Morrison, Dervite; Green, Cousins, Jackson, Poyet, Harriott; Church Only Nego and Thuram from the loans supposedly forced upon CP.....
Can we now expect Riga to get the sack for not playing the loanees? I think not. Lets deal in facts and not hearsay. I think the team selection negates your arguement for once and for all.
I am not one of the conspiracy theorists but let's be clear here, the reason there were no 'network' players tonight was because AA and Reza were injured!
From my POV - and this is where I think Powell got it wrong - Reza and AA are two very decent quality players and maybe he was overly stubborn in not making more of them.
The other thing to consider is that results get you leeway, if JR is winning games then he will be left alone to select whom he likes, if games are lost then questions will be asked by the owner - but that's what happens at most clubs anyway.
Not disputing that at all.....but if you were to follow the conspiracy theories then Thuram would have been in goal regardless and Nego would have been right back....wouldn't mind seeing that with Wilson in front of him to help out but add a bit of attacking flair on the right :-)
My interpretation of Varney's comments is as follows for those without the time or inclination to read them:
It was reasonable to sack Parkinson because the performances were poor even though we had no money.
It was unreasonable to sack Powell because the performances were poor even though we had no money.
Except (along with others) you persist in suggesting that CP was sacked “because the performances were poor” despite the evidence to the contrary:
RD: Thursday, February 20
“We are discussing right now to renew his contract for the coming years,
I hope we can reach an agreement soon.
There is certainly a desire to continue to work with Chris.
There is no doubt in my mind that he is an extremely good coach. It’s important for the fans that Powell is a club legend, but for me it’s not the most important matter.
The most important matter is just that he’s a very good coach”.
"We've agreed all the financial side of the contract - that didn't take long - but we have to agree the football side, players and recruitment moving forward.
“We have been working with Chris Powell and his representatives for a couple of weeks to try and agree a contract extension which would have seen us continue to work together.
There was good progress, but we could not reach an agreement over the club’s football strategy going forward
The situation put a strain on the working relationship between Chris and the board. Therefore I think it is best for all parties that we part ways at this stage”.
@Micks1950, what does any of that have to do with poor performances? Are you implying we were playing well in recent weeks?
Anyhow my comments (on this thread) were meant to draw attention to Varney's inconsistent comments where he states that it was ok to sack PP but not CP for poor performances.
Powell clearly has friends in the media and understandably wants to repair his reputation with an eye on future career prospects, but I'm not sure it helps his cause when some of the stuff written is so blatantly incorrect or biased.
I can't let you get away with that NYA . You can't criticize Varney for inconsistency while making a glaring inconsistency of your own. What @micks1950 has demonstrated clearly is that RD did not sack CP because of what you call poor performances. I'm not disagreeing with your other points, nor am I saying that parting ways with CP was fundamentally wrong, but I don't like to see people rewriting history to suit their own personal arguments
The only facts I know for sure are the last three games where I have seen every minute of played 3, conceded none and gained 5 points. And in the process we have gone from bottom to out of the bottom three. I have seen early tactical substitutions and different shapes which work with basically the same squad. And I have not seen a below par performance from any player as opposed to what I saw at Bramall lane the other week which was rubbish. As per the RD video today he felt he had to make a decision. And this guy is decisive as we saw with the January transfer window. The number of people "creating noise from the side" is a disgrace. If you don't support our club then go away and my definition of support does not include 24/7 sniping at one aspect of the club or another. If that energy was put to a more creative use then perhaps there might be a few more fans at matches and a few less believing this never ending stream of negative publicity.
I have to agree with this. I don't want to be seen criticising CP so soon after he left based on his great record as manager at the club. Yet the whole team seems to have gone up a gear in terms of effort, application and positivity with the ball. CP was very, very cautious. I can imagine that the change he might have made when Harriott got injured last night was switch Green to the left and throw Cousins out on the right, or something to that affect. We did start slowly last night, but again, that was a different line up to the 2 previous games, and it will take JR a while to get his method of play embedded in the team.
For me it was his approach to substitutions that gave me the greatest pleasure. Two forwards came on, 3 were on the bench. We didn't see that sort of approach from CP. Maybe it was because he didn't believe in his team? As I have posted elsewhere, RD has saved and is funding our club financially. We can all hypothesise about his motives for the future, but you could have said the same about Ambramovich when he took over at Chelsea.
I don't think that people who have concerns should 'vote with their feet' however. It is everyone's club and any opinion is a valid as the next. People may perceive everything that has gone on as 'negative', because we loved Powell and the media has been good at stirring up the pot. I'm saying, it's too early to judge RD, and I am quite fickle in that the results on the pitch dictate my outlook. I am happier this week, than I was 2 weeks ago. Keep the wins coming.
Oh NYA, that's a definite miaow. I thought you were better than that. I don't care if you supported CP or not, but please don't try to denigrate the qualities of a fundamentally decent man. Even RD had the good sense not to do that.
I can't let you get away with that NYA . You can't criticize Varney for inconsistency while making a glaring inconsistency of your own. What @micks1950 has demonstrated clearly is that RD did not sack CP because of what you call poor performances. I'm not disagreeing with your other points, nor am I saying that parting ways with CP was fundamentally wrong, but I don't like to see people rewriting history to suit their own personal arguments
I agree that CP was sacked because he did not agree with the direction / strategy of the club and not for the performances. Parkinson, I would argue was sacked not for the performances either, albeit the 4-2 home defeat, but because the new regime wanted to make a point and knew that PP was not popular due to he baggage he carried from being Pardews coach and Murrays ill informed "judged by results". Manager of the month November, sacked January.
I can't let you get away with that NYA . You can't criticize Varney for inconsistency while making a glaring inconsistency of your own. What @micks1950 has demonstrated clearly is that RD did not sack CP because of what you call poor performances. I'm not disagreeing with your other points, nor am I saying that parting ways with CP was fundamentally wrong, but I don't like to see people rewriting history to suit their own personal arguments
This, all day long. Happens all the time at the moment. And when someone is proved wrong they seldom have the backbone to come out and say so.
I can't let you get away with that NYA . You can't criticize Varney for inconsistency while making a glaring inconsistency of your own. What @micks1950 has demonstrated clearly is that RD did not sack CP because of what you call poor performances. I'm not disagreeing with your other points, nor am I saying that parting ways with CP was fundamentally wrong, but I don't like to see people rewriting history to suit their own personal arguments
This, all day long. Happens all the time at the moment. And when someone is proved wrong they seldom have the backbone to come out and say so.
just like hat other thread where people has misjudged the popularity of their support and have now retreated behind their print that's due out
I mean god forbid someone upsets RE and the votv
someone is without doubt using the press to try to disrupt RD prague, that's obvious I don't understand how anyone can not see it
for seasons it was said we aint good copy, and yet stories were leaked on here and very detailed info on our situation under TJ and MS and not one journo batted a pen lid in our direction
I do however agree that powelly was removed for a combination of results and playing reasons, I think RD was given a life line by the shit served up at bramel lane
I can't let you get away with that NYA . You can't criticize Varney for inconsistency while making a glaring inconsistency of your own. What @micks1950 has demonstrated clearly is that RD did not sack CP because of what you call poor performances. I'm not disagreeing with your other points, nor am I saying that parting ways with CP was fundamentally wrong, but I don't like to see people rewriting history to suit their own personal arguments
Maybe so but no-one really knows - the Sheffield Utd 'performance' certainly didn't help.
Oh NYA, that's a definite miaow. I thought you were better than that. I don't care if you supported CP or not, but please don't try to denigrate the qualities of a fundamentally decent man. Even RD had the good sense not to do that.
I have never suggested he wasn't a fundamentally decent man. I've just never been convinced he's a fundamentally decent manager.
The press articles this week from Martin Samuel to Patrick Collins were ludicrously fawning to the point of being ridiculous.
Oh NYA, that's a definite miaow. I thought you were better than that. I don't care if you supported CP or not, but please don't try to denigrate the qualities of a fundamentally decent man. Even RD had the good sense not to do that.
I have never suggested he wasn't a fundamentally decent man. I've just never been convinced he's a fundamentally decent manager.
The press articles this week from Martin Samuel to Patrick Collins were ludicrously fawning to the point of being ridiculous.
Comments
The team selection stands up and this is not QPR fly on the wall with one of the four owners instructing on substitutions FFS!
Some people pick up gossip from those near players and Powell and publicise it to show they are close to the action. But I prefer to watch the games and see the news of real activities and announcements.
If you spend some time doing that or just read the articulate posters on here then you get a sense of the direction of travel. For me it is good but not fast enough - my guess is things will speed up in the summer.
Alternatively you can choose to believe the Daily Mail but afraid I never have and never will!
Peter varney is the person I owe the majority of my happy times at cafc too
However if we hadn't had TJ and slater we wouldn't have RD
And who bought the other 2 to the table I believe peter was involved in the deal
RD is here allow him the courtesy of proving PV right instead of second guessing and creating noise from the side but still without actually giving fact and just giving opinion
If I was a gambling man I would suggest that maybe PV has an interest in moving in on RDs purchase
Peter varney is the person I owe the majority of my happy times at cafc too
However if we hadn't had TJ and slater we wouldn't have RD
And who bought the other 2 to the table I believe peter was involved in the deal
RD is here allow him the courtesy of proving PV right instead of second guessing and creating noise from the side but still without actually giving fact and just giving opinion
If I was a gambling man I would suggest that maybe PV has an interest in moving in on RDs purchase
At one point he says “this was the owner who allegedly instructed Powell to select the goalkeeper Yohann Thuram”. Note the "allegedly". Later on we get: “The manager … knew that if he didn’t pick Thuram for the Cup tie with Sheffield United, then he was out of a job”. What was "allegedly" before is now stated as a fact with the additional fact now provided that the alleged pressure became a final ultimatum.
Maybe this is just careless journalism and Collins does know something for a fact. However, the contradiction does, I think, require us to avoid rushing to judgement.
As per the RD video today he felt he had to make a decision. And this guy is decisive as we saw with the January transfer window.
The number of people "creating noise from the side" is a disgrace. If you don't support our club then go away and my definition of support does not include 24/7 sniping at one aspect of the club or another.
If that energy was put to a more creative use then perhaps there might be a few more fans at matches and a few less believing this never ending stream of negative publicity.
It was reasonable to sack Parkinson because the performances were poor even though we had no money.
It was unreasonable to sack Powell because the performances were poor even though we had no money.
Hamer, Wilson, Wiggins, Morrison, Dervite; Green, Cousins, Jackson, Poyet, Harriott; Church
Only Nego and Thuram from the loans supposedly forced upon CP.....
Can we now expect Riga to get the sack for not playing the loanees? I think not. Lets deal in facts and not hearsay. I think the team selection negates your arguement for once and for all.
He's been in charge for just over a month, were you expecting a new full team in that time?
From my POV - and this is where I think Powell got it wrong - Reza and AA are two very decent quality players and maybe he was overly stubborn in not making more of them.
The other thing to consider is that results get you leeway, if JR is winning games then he will be left alone to select whom he likes, if games are lost then questions will be asked by the owner - but that's what happens at most clubs anyway.
RD: Thursday, February 20
“We are discussing right now to renew his contract for the coming years,
I hope we can reach an agreement soon.
There is certainly a desire to continue to work with Chris.
There is no doubt in my mind that he is an extremely good coach. It’s important for the fans that Powell is a club legend, but for me it’s not the most important matter.
The most important matter is just that he’s a very good coach”.
http://www.cafc.co.uk/news/article/20140220-duchatelet-confirms-powell-contract-talks-1372692.aspx#QJThP645dwdc7cyY.99
CP: Thursday, 06 March 2014
"We've agreed all the financial side of the contract - that didn't take long - but we have to agree the football side, players and recruitment moving forward.
That's where we are at."
http://www.slp.co.uk/sport.cfm?id=7685&headline=Exclusive: Finances agreed on Powell contract but football issues remain
RD: Tue 11 Mar 2014
“We have been working with Chris Powell and his representatives for a couple of weeks to try and agree a contract extension which would have seen us continue to work together.
There was good progress, but we could not reach an agreement over the club’s football strategy going forward
The situation put a strain on the working relationship between Chris and the board. Therefore I think it is best for all parties that we part ways at this stage”.
http://www.cafc.co.uk/news/article/20140310-chris-powell-leaves-charlton-1411657.aspx?utm_content=buffer8a4a3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer#sMmg3Ie7PeFoYSzb.99
Anyhow my comments (on this thread) were meant to draw attention to Varney's inconsistent comments where he states that it was ok to sack PP but not CP for poor performances.
Powell clearly has friends in the media and understandably wants to repair his reputation with an eye on future career prospects, but I'm not sure it helps his cause when some of the stuff written is so blatantly incorrect or biased.
For me it was his approach to substitutions that gave me the greatest pleasure. Two forwards came on, 3 were on the bench. We didn't see that sort of approach from CP. Maybe it was because he didn't believe in his team? As I have posted elsewhere, RD has saved and is funding our club financially. We can all hypothesise about his motives for the future, but you could have said the same about Ambramovich when he took over at Chelsea.
I don't think that people who have concerns should 'vote with their feet' however. It is everyone's club and any opinion is a valid as the next. People may perceive everything that has gone on as 'negative', because we loved Powell and the media has been good at stirring up the pot. I'm saying, it's too early to judge RD, and I am quite fickle in that the results on the pitch dictate my outlook. I am happier this week, than I was 2 weeks ago. Keep the wins coming.
just like hat other thread where people has misjudged the popularity of their support and have now retreated behind their print that's due out
I mean god forbid someone upsets RE and the votv
someone is without doubt using the press to try to disrupt RD prague, that's obvious I don't understand how anyone can not see it
for seasons it was said we aint good copy, and yet stories were leaked on here and very detailed info on our situation under TJ and MS and not one journo batted a pen lid in our direction
I do however agree that powelly was removed for a combination of results and playing reasons, I think RD was given a life line by the shit served up at bramel lane
The press articles this week from Martin Samuel to Patrick Collins were ludicrously fawning to the point of being ridiculous.