Quotes were getting confusing seriously_red, but I do agree somewhere deep down, the club does look to benefit from the network but I just don't believe we are the correct team to be doing so. We're in a very vulnerable position in more ways than one and I think a few incorrect turns and we could go past the recovery point, he has to be very careful.
And it's only right for people to express their views on a forum, bit boring to be laughed at because people disagree with your sentiment, people have to take their red-tints off and view our club from an outside perspective, at the moment it's not too bright long term from most peoples views, maybe that's just us being sceptics. If we do progress as a club and slowly climb up leagues while breaking even for RD (what does he gain from this, though?) then I will doth my cap to him.
“When you own one club your whole focus is on that one club and making sure it is successful. When you own a number of clubs you have disparate objectives and you have to ensure the whole family works and as I understand the Duchatelet model it has to be profitable overall.
“In my view it waters down the passion if you have got half a dozen football clubs to look after and I certainly hope we never become just a feeder club.
"Communication with supporters is vital and if they don't know what the future plan is they can only guess and that breeds discontent and suspicion and worse than that people will vote with their feet.”
.. hard to disagree with even for you blind optimists out there. It won't be long till we all do vote with our feet, I'll give it a year from this point.
Corr do you ever stop moaning , can you not see the good things rd is doing ? You should vote with your feet and not go if your that against him , don't need these negative fans , I know a few people who are very optimistic and since Powell has gone have said they will now get a season ticket next year so it's not all one sided . I'm very happy and optimistic for our future. Up the Addicks !
Rather than following me about telling me how optimistic you are, how about telling me how you think the whole family network benefits our club and doesn't water down the passion involved in running a club (which is a necessity) . But thanks for your input, Roland. And you know Charlton fans that will now go because Powell has gone??? They aren't Charlton fans.
You might just be the most depressing person on this site. For the last week you've non stop moaned, cheer up a tad
“When you own one club your whole focus is on that one club and making sure it is successful. When you own a number of clubs you have disparate objectives and you have to ensure the whole family works and as I understand the Duchatelet model it has to be profitable overall.
“In my view it waters down the passion if you have got half a dozen football clubs to look after and I certainly hope we never become just a feeder club.
"Communication with supporters is vital and if they don't know what the future plan is they can only guess and that breeds discontent and suspicion and worse than that people will vote with their feet.”
.. hard to disagree with even for you blind optimists out there. It won't be long till we all do vote with our feet, I'll give it a year from this point.
Corr do you ever stop moaning , can you not see the good things rd is doing ? You should vote with your feet and not go if your that against him , don't need these negative fans , I know a few people who are very optimistic and since Powell has gone have said they will now get a season ticket next year so it's not all one sided . I'm very happy and optimistic for our future. Up the Addicks !
Rather than following me about telling me how optimistic you are, how about telling me how you think the whole family network benefits our club and doesn't water down the passion involved in running a club (which is a necessity) . But thanks for your input, Roland. And you know Charlton fans that will now go because Powell has gone??? They aren't Charlton fans.
You might just be the most depressing person on this site. For the last week you've non stop moaned, cheer up a tad
Great shout I was thinking just the same!
Because he/she is worried about the direction we are going in
Quotes were getting confusing seriously_red, but I do agree somewhere deep down, the club does look to benefit from the network but I just don't believe we are the correct team to be doing so. We're in a very vulnerable position in more ways than one and I think a few incorrect turns and we could go past the recovery point, he has to be very careful.
And it's only right for people to express their views on a forum, bit boring to be laughed at because people disagree with your sentiment, people have to take their red-tints off and view our club from an outside perspective, at the moment it's not too bright long term from most peoples views, maybe that's just us being sceptics. If we do progress as a club and slowly climb up leagues while breaking even for RD (what does he gain from this, though?) then I will doth my cap to him.
Right again! Any wrong turns a this stage won't just lead to no points for that match. It will also lead to a fairly toxic atmosphere. Two 0-0 draws under Riga has confused things as no wins nor losses but we will know soon enough how it might pan out - perhaps by 5pm Saturday? On a forum the only thing I draw the line at is personal abuse and bad mouthing club back office workers - players and owners are fair game!.
'They were all told we wouldn’t be able to offer similar contracts and they wouldn’t be renewed which resulted in a tailing off in the performances of the team.'
'They were all told we wouldn’t be able to offer similar contracts and they wouldn’t be renewed which resulted in a tailing off in the performances of the team.'
Similar situation now.
Almost...one by one some players have agreed extensions. All the talent under 22 except Poyet have been signed on 3 year deals. It will be interesting to see who out of the older players is renewed and I suggest the ones in or near the first team should be playing for a new deal either at CAFC or elsewhere.
After all Stephens and Kermorgant secured offers from elsewhere by playing well.
Stick to your guns, Atletico - your opinions are perfectly valid...
Obviously not pal, it's sad to see really. I rarely get a response from someone who shoots me down because they have nothing to say from that point onwards.
Everything PV has said in the article is a well articulated point, yet because it's in the negative camp people push it aside and shoot you down. Sad really because if I am proved to be correct in a couple of years regarding the direction in which this club will go, it'll kill me inside to know that people weren't willing to accept it's a possibility, before it's too late.
How can we accept a possibility that the club will be up shit creek in 3 years time. Let us review the facts once again. We were on the brink of administration prior to RD buying us. We were and are probably still running at a loss which he will have to cover. He will mostly likely have to spend money on fixing the pitch in the summer to avoid possible punishment/sanctions from the FA/football league. He has helped us bring in 5 new players plus authorised 2 loan signings. Yes we have sold Kermorgant and Stephens, but with them both coming to the end of their contracts and us having the chance to get money now, it may have made good business sense for the club. He is very aware of FFP and the potential ramifications this may have from next season onwards.
We should consider this. When Curbs left, RM went trigger happy giving Dowie a lot of money to spend on some very average players. Upon relegation to the Championship Pardew was given close to £10m to spend on players and the decline was very much in motion. I have nothing but respect and gratitude for every thing RM has done for this club, but between us getting relegated from the Premiership and Jimenez coming in, the direction the club went in was a 'shambles'. You could argue, that if 3 years on from being relegated from the Premiership we looked back, we all would've stopped RM making the decisions he made. Hindsight is obviously an easy thing to fall back on, but the point I am making is that I am encouraged by the start of RD's tenure.
The talk of him sacking Powell over not playing Thuram and others is not good, but I still believe a lot of people are letting their heart rule their head over CP. With regard to us being a feeder club in a network, I would say you are underestimating our potential within that network. No disrespect to all of the other clubs, but aside from Liege, no Charlton player will be remotely interested in playing for any of them. I would even go so far as to say Liege will have to have sustained CL success to pique the interest of our players in the first place.
RD has taken swift and decisive action that hasn't sat well with a number of our fans for many reasons. I don't buy into the wider world of media insight from Martin Samuels, Patrick Collins etc fretting over the very future of our club. Patrick Collins, although a Charlton fan, hasn't been to a game in years. This type of situation is easy fodder for them. If RD had come in like Vincent Tan & the Venkys, then I may have cause for concern. He hasn't. His approach is one of prudence, and he has outlined (to an extent), what he feels the immediate challenge is regarding financial stability.
There seem to be four types of football club owner:
1 The super-rich hobbyists, eg Chelsea (Abramovitch), Man City (Gulf owners). These are not in it to make a profit, but for the satisfaction of achieving success on such a high-profile stage.
2 The supporters, eg Charlton (Murray), Everton (Kenwright). Also not there for financial reasons; essentially they want what ordinary supporters want.
3 The successful businessmen who want more business success, this time through football. The majority of owners seem to fall into this category.
4 Duchatelet. He’s in it to ??????
Although the motivations of the first three types are different, they are all achieved through success on the field and so are aligned with supporters’ aspirations.
The fourth is a bit of a puzzle. I’ve said elsewhere that I don’t believe RD is motivated by the prospect of financial gain. I could be completely wrong here and I concede that he has exactly the same profile as those in type 3. But as stilladdicted has pointed out, he says things like:
Asked about where he saw Charlton in a few years, RD said 'You have to be aware that a football club is not just a matter of winning. I know it is important but if you look at football today its a huge social club'. He went on to describe the diverse nature of football supporters and added that 'A football club is the centre of a communion'.
He gives every impression of seeing this as a social project, a model that he thinks he may have discovered of how you run a football club on a sustainable financial basis, thereby responding in a lasting way to whatever need football supporters are trying to fulfil by being supporters. I think this could be the answer to Atletico’s question:
If we do progress as a club and slowly climb up leagues while breaking even for RD (what does he gain from this, though?)
His gain is the success of his project in his terms. I think it also explains the concerns that many supporters have about him: his project does not place on-the-field success at the top of his priorities.
I don’t think he is evil. On the contrary his motives could well be more admirable than those of types 1 and 3. However, there could be a degree of disconnect with the priorities of supporters.
All this could be complete misinterpretation on my part. I accept that and so certainly am not rushing to judgement. Perhaps the only thing that is clear to me is that now is too early to take a firm position either way.
Don't disagree with much of what varney says, but he is Ebbsfleet chairman and should stick to discussing them and not the internal affairs of Charlton, the side swipe at Parkinson was unnecessary and debatable in its validity, given that we were 2 points off play off, before the investment that Chris received in 7 players before the end of the season. I accept that PP had to go but it was due to the baggage that he brought with him from being Pardews Assistant and Murrays "Judge him on results" statement, more than the results of a team as under invested in as Chris's team has been this last two seasons.
I completely agree with this regarding the Phil Parkinson swipe. Completely unnecessary and not a level playing field. Give him the same investment Powelly got and I'm sure Phil would have got us to the championship. After all, he went on to do an absolutely magnificent job at Bradford.
But if we fall to League Two, break even every year, and provide him with an English youth system that can help feed the wider network, would that still be a success to him?
Reading between the lines it seems to me like the answer is yes.
Would that be a success for Charlton or us fans? Well I don't really need to answer that do I!
Stick to your guns, Atletico - your opinions are perfectly valid...
Obviously not pal, it's sad to see really. I rarely get a response from someone who shoots me down because they have nothing to say from that point onwards.
Everything PV has said in the article is a well articulated point, yet because it's in the negative camp people push it aside and shoot you down. Sad really because if I am proved to be correct in a couple of years regarding the direction in which this club will go, it'll kill me inside to know that people weren't willing to accept it's a possibility, before it's too late.
How can we accept a possibility that the club will be up shit creek in 3 years time. Let us review the facts once again. We were on the brink of administration prior to RD buying us. We were and are probably still running at a loss which he will have to cover. He will mostly likely have to spend money on fixing the pitch in the summer to avoid possible punishment/sanctions from the FA/football league. He has helped us bring in 5 new players plus authorised 2 loan signings. Yes we have sold Kermorgant and Stephens, but with them both coming to the end of their contracts and us having the chance to get money now, it may have made good business sense for the club. He is very aware of FFP and the potential ramifications this may have from next season onwards.
We should consider this. When Curbs left, RM went trigger happy giving Dowie a lot of money to spend on some very average players. Upon relegation to the Championship Pardew was given close to £10m to spend on players and the decline was very much in motion. I have nothing but respect and gratitude for every thing RM has done for this club, but between us getting relegated from the Premiership and Jimenez coming in, the direction the club went in was a 'shambles'. You could argue, that if 3 years on from being relegated from the Premiership we looked back, we all would've stopped RM making the decisions he made. Hindsight is obviously an easy thing to fall back on, but the point I am making is that I am encouraged by the start of RD's tenure.
The talk of him sacking Powell over not playing Thuram and others is not good, but I still believe a lot of people are letting their heart rule their head over CP. With regard to us being a feeder club in a network, I would say you are underestimating our potential within that network. No disrespect to all of the other clubs, but aside from Liege, no Charlton player will be remotely interested in playing for any of them. I would even go so far as to say Liege will have to have sustained CL success to pique the interest of our players in the first place.
RD has taken swift and decisive action that hasn't sat well with a number of our fans for many reasons. I don't buy into the wider world of media insight from Martin Samuels, Patrick Collins etc fretting over the very future of our club. Patrick Collins, although a Charlton fan, hasn't been to a game in years. This type of situation is easy fodder for them. If RD had come in like Vincent Tan & the Venkys, then I may have cause for concern. He hasn't. His approach is one of prudence, and he has outlined (to an extent), what he feels the immediate challenge is regarding financial stability.
Good post and I see where you are coming from, to be fair. Regarding our position in the network which is quite frankly the important point of the debate, as IF there is a pecking order it's important we know where we sit, he has hugely misjudged the league (given he has no knowledge in football) with the players he has pushed our way. Maybe they are good enough but not as 'emergency type transfers' at this important time in the season, I believe this is an indication of things to come, believe, not a fact. This is a risk to us.
IF we are to stay up, RD has two options, go against his ways and start spending money on adequate acquisitions, or take a punt on players that were out of favour for Liege, as you say, no disrespect to the other clubs but pretty much they aren't on our levels in terms of quality/size of club, so can't see us getting (m)any of their players. Do you think the latter would be good enough to keep us in the Championship? As I don't, personally. If he sticks by his guns, my knowledge of football tells me the players we'll be receiving unless he ups it to in-favour SL players, which is a very unlikely prospect, the produce we'll be receiving will see us drop. It's all big if's and big but's, but they may become a reality. The off-season is an unbelievably huge one in Charlton Athletic Football Clubs future, absolutely huge. If he has one too many play around with the players we may not be able to recover for a very long time given his plans regarding selling the best, what we'll be left with. Feel free to shoot me down as most do because they are in happy clappy land, but I am looking a tad further on, will this plan work for CAFC? My opinion, only if he adjusts his motives.
Cabbie said The talk of him sacking Powell over not playing Thuram and others is not good, but I still believe a lot of people are letting their heart rule their head over CP.' I have little doubt doubt that sacking rather than backing our Chrissy will prove a huge mistake. That is not my current concern though, I can't change the sacking ( based on lies) of CP. My concern is that we will become a feeder club for Standard Liege. Listen to his first interview more closely now that we are two months down the line. It scares me!
But if we fall to League Two, break even every year, and provide him with an English youth system that can help feed the wider network, would that still be a success to him?
Reading between the lines it seems to me like the answer is yes.
Would that be a success for Charlton or us fans? Well I don't really need to answer that do I!
And that is my problem. Too much reading between the lines. I wonder, given RD's POLITICAL background, if KHA was not closer in his statement of it being a 'social project'. Perhaps the strength of CACT, the Valley history and the Trust's ACV attracted him to the fact that this is a club that is very much entrenched in the community and he can build his 'huge social club' experiment; which to me does imply financial prudence but with at least some on-field success :-)
What I DO know is that I wish he would tell us.......
Stick to your guns, Atletico - your opinions are perfectly valid...
Obviously not pal, it's sad to see really. I rarely get a response from someone who shoots me down because they have nothing to say from that point onwards.
Everything PV has said in the article is a well articulated point, yet because it's in the negative camp people push it aside and shoot you down. Sad really because if I am proved to be correct in a couple of years regarding the direction in which this club will go, it'll kill me inside to know that people weren't willing to accept it's a possibility, before it's too late.
How can we accept a possibility that the club will be up shit creek in 3 years time. Let us review the facts once again. We were on the brink of administration prior to RD buying us. We were and are probably still running at a loss which he will have to cover. He will mostly likely have to spend money on fixing the pitch in the summer to avoid possible punishment/sanctions from the FA/football league. He has helped us bring in 5 new players plus authorised 2 loan signings. Yes we have sold Kermorgant and Stephens, but with them both coming to the end of their contracts and us having the chance to get money now, it may have made good business sense for the club. He is very aware of FFP and the potential ramifications this may have from next season onwards.
We should consider this. When Curbs left, RM went trigger happy giving Dowie a lot of money to spend on some very average players. Upon relegation to the Championship Pardew was given close to £10m to spend on players and the decline was very much in motion. I have nothing but respect and gratitude for every thing RM has done for this club, but between us getting relegated from the Premiership and Jimenez coming in, the direction the club went in was a 'shambles'. You could argue, that if 3 years on from being relegated from the Premiership we looked back, we all would've stopped RM making the decisions he made. Hindsight is obviously an easy thing to fall back on, but the point I am making is that I am encouraged by the start of RD's tenure.
The talk of him sacking Powell over not playing Thuram and others is not good, but I still believe a lot of people are letting their heart rule their head over CP. With regard to us being a feeder club in a network, I would say you are underestimating our potential within that network. No disrespect to all of the other clubs, but aside from Liege, no Charlton player will be remotely interested in playing for any of them. I would even go so far as to say Liege will have to have sustained CL success to pique the interest of our players in the first place.
RD has taken swift and decisive action that hasn't sat well with a number of our fans for many reasons. I don't buy into the wider world of media insight from Martin Samuels, Patrick Collins etc fretting over the very future of our club. Patrick Collins, although a Charlton fan, hasn't been to a game in years. This type of situation is easy fodder for them. If RD had come in like Vincent Tan & the Venkys, then I may have cause for concern. He hasn't. His approach is one of prudence, and he has outlined (to an extent), what he feels the immediate challenge is regarding financial stability.
Probably one of the most sensible posts I have read on here !
People are assuming that because it was mostly network/Liege players who came in during January then it will only ever be network players - which is fallacious on current evidence given the signings of Tudgay and Obika, both of whom fit the Powell target profile. We got Liege players in during January because RD had been in charge for weeks at most at that stage and was still adjusting/planning for the situation the previous owners had left it in - other peoples' money is the easiest to spend, anyone seriously expecting him to throw serious money around so early was naive at best. If not for the network I doubt we would have signed anyone at all until the emergency loans opened for business, and understandably so.
People are insistent that we will be no more than a feeder club - but that's simply the media line, and sells much better than 'Man buys club, fires struggling manager. Business as usual' (which it is - Parky was given the tin tack in double time and he had even worse cards to play than Powell ever did.) Reza had a good record at previous clubs, and international level, Thuram was NOT 'conference level' he had had good reviews with reservations in prior seasons- exactly the same as Amish Ben, who only became super-keeper after a period of absence. Nego seemed (still does to my eyes) a reasonable risk given Solly seems pretty much a write off for the foreseeable future and we are playing a right midfielder in defence to try and compensate. Polish Pete (outside the network lest we forget) is rated highly by those who knew anything about him, and was always a longer term prospect than a ready made solution. Ajderevic looks just as much a player as Stephens was, pace notwithstanding.
Perhaps he had misjudged the league, but he was willing to spend considerable money for wages of the likes of Max Gradel, Shaun Wright Phillips and Connor Wickham, he has bought in two proven Championship strikers in Tudgay and Obika - as good as we are likely to get in our league position, for someone who doesn't understand football he seems to have listened to someone who does.
The CP situation sits poorly, and rightly so, but it seems that RD and Powell just could not agree on certain things, and frankly CP was dealing from a position of weakness considering the football has been shit all season under his management - there are mitigating factors but it was five wins in whole season, and being taken to a replay by Oxford in the cup for god's sake. That is awful form, managers have been sacked for better. Anyone who was not so beloved by the fans would have gone long before (cf: Parkinson, Phillip), whatever the background situation may have been. The fact a contract was being discussed is proof that if a compromise could have been reached then Powell would still be here - but it could not be, and there is no more reason why RD should compromise all his principles than CP should have sacrificed his own.
The pitch will cost a lot of money, the work on the training ground and the improvement of the academy likewise, these are not signs RD is intending to let the club become some reserve outfit. The academy players will eventually move on to other clubs - perhaps inside the network, perhaps not - but this was ALWAYS the way. Jenkinson, Shelvey, McGinty, all went to Premiership clubs, Scott Parker was sold when we were higher in the league than we had been for many many years. Charlton have always been a feeder club in that sense - the only practical difference is that the youth products might end up in Belgium instead of making up homegrown rotas and rotting in Premier League reserves instead. RD is going to want players with experience, that have proved their quality instead of merely showing potential, that means we will get maybe 2-3 seasons out of them before they move on... exactly as it was before RD was ever on the horizon.
Finally, the complaints that we are going to be stuck with cast-offs from Liege - Liege are top of their league and consistently successful - even the players that prove surplus to requirements there are unlikely to be any worse than grubbing around taking chances on lower league hotshots, aging has-beens and prospects on loan, as we'd be left with without RD's influence and money.
People are very quick to assume the worst about every single action that RD makes, unfortunately said people include some big name fans and those in the media and it has become a self perpetuating circle, bad rumours go around, are reported, then get spread as fact because they were in a newspaper (bastions of honesty, accuracy and integrity that they are.)
thenewbie, a rousing, well argued defence of RD! I think that saying Thuram is not Conference level is probably not over-stating it, but I'd draw the line at Nego seemed (still does to my eyes) a reasonable risk - based, of course, on just one sighting of him (Wigan).
thenewbie, a rousing, well argued defence of RD! I think that saying Thuram is not Conference level is probably not over-stating it, but I'd draw the line at Nego seemed (still does to my eyes) a reasonable risk - based, of course, on just one sighting of him (Wigan).
Thuram and Nego both have a lot to prove, and I concede were gambles. But one sighting is not enough to condemn a player for me.
I stopped reading after this part: "I told Chris when he started it was going to be a bumpy few months. It was a case of making sure we stayed in the division."
Given we already had 34 points from 22 games, it wasn't exactly an arduous task!
So Newbie, are you ok with RD picking the team/telling the coach that certain players must play ?
This is one of the alleged most important point, that you have not commented on.
I am not commenting on it, as I do not think it is relevant... because to the best of my knowledge, it is not true. Nego came straight in as we did not have a right back... a bad performance, and he was dropped. Thuram came in as he was at the time the only fit keeper - and would have been anyway, as Hamer was injured and Alnwick unavailable. Reza and Ajderevic have come in and frankly they are in and/or out of the team on merit.
RD may have dictated things as to what players actually came in (I don't buy it, to my mind it was the easiest/safest bet as he was reluctant to spend money one week into his ownership.) But as far as we have seen, Powell picked the players he wanted to pick, Riga has picked the players he wants to pick, mostly the same players in fact.
I do not deny that CP clearly did not see eye to eye with RD on some crucial issues - the evidence is unavoidable and indisputable. But as far as I can see, there has been NO proof RD ever dictated exactly what players/formation to play, merely rumours. If anyone can prove me wrong I will concede the point, but that means actual proof, hard evidence not 'I heard it from x.'
So Newbie, are you ok with RD picking the team/telling the coach that certain players must play ?
This is one of the alleged most important point, that you have not commented on.
Have I missed the evidence of this assumption? I'll concede that AD picked the Huddersfield team but Hamer remained between the sticks at Millwall which kind of suggests that JR is making his own mind up as to the whole alleged Thuram situation. I guess we'll find out tonight when the team is announced but if Hamer keeps his place, and there's no reason at all he wouldn't, can we consider putting this conspiracy theory to bed?
Yes an email would do it. An actual email I can read for myself with proof it was written by RD, sent to CP and not faked. Not rumours of an email, not text/words alleged to come from this hypothetical email. An actual email. That is proof.
Yes an email would do it. An actual email I can read for myself with proof it was written by RD, sent to CP and not faked. Not rumours of an email, not text/words alleged to come from this hypothetical email. An actual email. That is proof.
Well that obviously isn't going to happen. But considering the number of sources close to Powell who are reporting it as fact, you can be 100% confident it isn't simply a rumour.
Yes an email would do it. An actual email I can read for myself with proof it was written by RD, sent to CP and not faked. Not rumours of an email, not text/words alleged to come from this hypothetical email. An actual email. That is proof.
Well that obviously isn't going to happen. But considering the number of sources close to Powell who are reporting it as fact, you can be 100% confident it isn't simply a rumour.
“I went to Bramall Lane and it was a poor performance but if you add just Kermorgant and Stephens to the team that day I believe it would all have been very different”
I have to disagree strongly with that view.
“When you look at the wages paid out last season, that team shouldn’t have finished ninth."
Does he mean the team should have finished higher or lower?
We had the fourth lowest wage bill, so he means lower.
Yes an email would do it. An actual email I can read for myself with proof it was written by RD, sent to CP and not faked. Not rumours of an email, not text/words alleged to come from this hypothetical email. An actual email. That is proof.
Well that obviously isn't going to happen. But considering the number of sources close to Powell who are reporting it as fact, you can be 100% confident it isn't simply a rumour.
No, I really can't. Powell is idolised, rightly so, he is popular and charismatic and was the best thing to happen to the club for a very long time. But RD was being totally demonised at the time, hence we STILL have a thread referring to him as douchebag, and another that called him something much worse. IF this email was real, then at the very most I expect it was along the lines of asking why exactly the new players weren't playing given the original bunch were not exactly covering themselves in glory, a question many were asking. Add a bit of gossip, touch of rumour and a sprinkle of hearsay, shake it all up and hey presto suddenly there is an email telling Powell to play x players, or he will be sacked.
It's nothing to do with idolising Powell or demonising RD, and it's not a rumour from disgruntled fans. It's people like Cawley and Varney, who both speak to Powell on a regular basis, reporting the facts of the matter. If you choose not to believe it then that's fine.
It's nothing to do with idolising Powell or demonising RD, and it's not a rumour from disgruntled fans. It's people like Cawley and Varney, who both speak to Powell on a regular basis, reporting the facts of the matter. If you choose not to believe it then that's fine.
Varney merely said that CP was under pressure to choose certain players, which is a different story to being told 'play them or you're fired.' I don't Cawley has ever confirmed the email specifically either, merely reported the rumour there was one. The most specific thing I can find is the quote "The South London Press understands that Powell has clashed with Addicks owner Roland Duchatelet over players that were brought in on loan - the main two being keeper Yohann Thuram-Ulien and Loic Nego."... neither of whom have played under Riga either.
I am not doubting that CP MAY have been leaned on to play certain players, but on current evidence there is nothing to prove it either. Just gossip and rumours, much like the contract that Dick Dastardl- sorry, Roland Duchatelet supposedly returned unsigned having written 'You're fired' on it. Like I say, I have not seen anyone who has even claimed to have read this email themselves, merely heard of it.
He came to the table with alternative buyers during the negotiations where RD bought us put... Or so rumours suggest.
The timing of these interviews is very peculiar though - a lot of accusations and paranoia surrounding Roland; and only some if it truly understandable.
Varney is understandable - he was close to Charlton, had an intimate knowledge of the previous regime and was involved in the appointment of Powell. So he's far from the most peculiar of commentators at the moment though.
He came to the table with alternative buyers during the negotiations where RD bought us put... Or so rumours suggest.
The timing of these interviews is very peculiar though - a lot of accusations and paranoia surrounding Roland; and only some if it truly understandable.
Varney is understandable - he was close to Charlton, had an intimate knowledge of the previous regime and was involved in the appointment of Powell. So he's far from the most peculiar of commentators at the moment though.
I am not for one minute questioning that Varney has interest and affection for Charlton, and we the fans for him - it's only since he left we realised how influential and important he was I think. BUT he is not directly involved in any way with the club and it's internal running any more so I would be very very surprised if any of the things he is saying are in reaction to direct first hand evidence.
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And it's only right for people to express their views on a forum, bit boring to be laughed at because people disagree with your sentiment, people have to take their red-tints off and view our club from an outside perspective, at the moment it's not too bright long term from most peoples views, maybe that's just us being sceptics. If we do progress as a club and slowly climb up leagues while breaking even for RD (what does he gain from this, though?) then I will doth my cap to him.
On a forum the only thing I draw the line at is personal abuse and bad mouthing club back office workers - players and owners are fair game!.
Similar situation now.
After all Stephens and Kermorgant secured offers from elsewhere by playing well.
We should consider this. When Curbs left, RM went trigger happy giving Dowie a lot of money to spend on some very average players. Upon relegation to the Championship Pardew was given close to £10m to spend on players and the decline was very much in motion. I have nothing but respect and gratitude for every thing RM has done for this club, but between us getting relegated from the Premiership and Jimenez coming in, the direction the club went in was a 'shambles'. You could argue, that if 3 years on from being relegated from the Premiership we looked back, we all would've stopped RM making the decisions he made. Hindsight is obviously an easy thing to fall back on, but the point I am making is that I am encouraged by the start of RD's tenure.
The talk of him sacking Powell over not playing Thuram and others is not good, but I still believe a lot of people are letting their heart rule their head over CP. With regard to us being a feeder club in a network, I would say you are underestimating our potential within that network. No disrespect to all of the other clubs, but aside from Liege, no Charlton player will be remotely interested in playing for any of them. I would even go so far as to say Liege will have to have sustained CL success to pique the interest of our players in the first place.
RD has taken swift and decisive action that hasn't sat well with a number of our fans for many reasons. I don't buy into the wider world of media insight from Martin Samuels, Patrick Collins etc fretting over the very future of our club. Patrick Collins, although a Charlton fan, hasn't been to a game in years. This type of situation is easy fodder for them. If RD had come in like Vincent Tan & the Venkys, then I may have cause for concern. He hasn't. His approach is one of prudence, and he has outlined (to an extent), what he feels the immediate challenge is regarding financial stability.
1 The super-rich hobbyists, eg Chelsea (Abramovitch), Man City (Gulf owners). These are not in it to make a profit, but for the satisfaction of achieving success on such a high-profile stage.
2 The supporters, eg Charlton (Murray), Everton (Kenwright). Also not there for financial reasons; essentially they want what ordinary supporters want.
3 The successful businessmen who want more business success, this time through football. The majority of owners seem to fall into this category.
4 Duchatelet. He’s in it to ??????
Although the motivations of the first three types are different, they are all achieved through success on the field and so are aligned with supporters’ aspirations.
The fourth is a bit of a puzzle. I’ve said elsewhere that I don’t believe RD is motivated by the prospect of financial gain. I could be completely wrong here and I concede that he has exactly the same profile as those in type 3. But as stilladdicted has pointed out, he says things like:
Asked about where he saw Charlton in a few years, RD said 'You have to be aware that a football club is not just a matter of winning. I know it is important but if you look at football today its a huge social club'. He went on to describe the diverse nature of football supporters and added that 'A football club is the centre of a communion'.
He gives every impression of seeing this as a social project, a model that he thinks he may have discovered of how you run a football club on a sustainable financial basis, thereby responding in a lasting way to whatever need football supporters are trying to fulfil by being supporters. I think this could be the answer to Atletico’s question:
If we do progress as a club and slowly climb up leagues while breaking even for RD (what does he gain from this, though?)
His gain is the success of his project in his terms. I think it also explains the concerns that many supporters have about him: his project does not place on-the-field success at the top of his priorities.
I don’t think he is evil. On the contrary his motives could well be more admirable than those of types 1 and 3. However, there could be a degree of disconnect with the priorities of supporters.
All this could be complete misinterpretation on my part. I accept that and so certainly am not rushing to judgement. Perhaps the only thing that is clear to me is that now is too early to take a firm position either way.
Reading between the lines it seems to me like the answer is yes.
Would that be a success for Charlton or us fans? Well I don't really need to answer that do I!
IF we are to stay up, RD has two options, go against his ways and start spending money on adequate acquisitions, or take a punt on players that were out of favour for Liege, as you say, no disrespect to the other clubs but pretty much they aren't on our levels in terms of quality/size of club, so can't see us getting (m)any of their players. Do you think the latter would be good enough to keep us in the Championship? As I don't, personally. If he sticks by his guns, my knowledge of football tells me the players we'll be receiving unless he ups it to in-favour SL players, which is a very unlikely prospect, the produce we'll be receiving will see us drop. It's all big if's and big but's, but they may become a reality. The off-season is an unbelievably huge one in Charlton Athletic Football Clubs future, absolutely huge. If he has one too many play around with the players we may not be able to recover for a very long time given his plans regarding selling the best, what we'll be left with. Feel free to shoot me down as most do because they are in happy clappy land, but I am looking a tad further on, will this plan work for CAFC? My opinion, only if he adjusts his motives.
What I DO know is that I wish he would tell us.......
People are insistent that we will be no more than a feeder club - but that's simply the media line, and sells much better than 'Man buys club, fires struggling manager. Business as usual' (which it is - Parky was given the tin tack in double time and he had even worse cards to play than Powell ever did.) Reza had a good record at previous clubs, and international level, Thuram was NOT 'conference level' he had had good reviews with reservations in prior seasons- exactly the same as Amish Ben, who only became super-keeper after a period of absence. Nego seemed (still does to my eyes) a reasonable risk given Solly seems pretty much a write off for the foreseeable future and we are playing a right midfielder in defence to try and compensate. Polish Pete (outside the network lest we forget) is rated highly by those who knew anything about him, and was always a longer term prospect than a ready made solution. Ajderevic looks just as much a player as Stephens was, pace notwithstanding.
Perhaps he had misjudged the league, but he was willing to spend considerable money for wages of the likes of Max Gradel, Shaun Wright Phillips and Connor Wickham, he has bought in two proven Championship strikers in Tudgay and Obika - as good as we are likely to get in our league position, for someone who doesn't understand football he seems to have listened to someone who does.
The CP situation sits poorly, and rightly so, but it seems that RD and Powell just could not agree on certain things, and frankly CP was dealing from a position of weakness considering the football has been shit all season under his management - there are mitigating factors but it was five wins in whole season, and being taken to a replay by Oxford in the cup for god's sake. That is awful form, managers have been sacked for better. Anyone who was not so beloved by the fans would have gone long before (cf: Parkinson, Phillip), whatever the background situation may have been. The fact a contract was being discussed is proof that if a compromise could have been reached then Powell would still be here - but it could not be, and there is no more reason why RD should compromise all his principles than CP should have sacrificed his own.
The pitch will cost a lot of money, the work on the training ground and the improvement of the academy likewise, these are not signs RD is intending to let the club become some reserve outfit. The academy players will eventually move on to other clubs - perhaps inside the network, perhaps not - but this was ALWAYS the way. Jenkinson, Shelvey, McGinty, all went to Premiership clubs, Scott Parker was sold when we were higher in the league than we had been for many many years. Charlton have always been a feeder club in that sense - the only practical difference is that the youth products might end up in Belgium instead of making up homegrown rotas and rotting in Premier League reserves instead. RD is going to want players with experience, that have proved their quality instead of merely showing potential, that means we will get maybe 2-3 seasons out of them before they move on... exactly as it was before RD was ever on the horizon.
Finally, the complaints that we are going to be stuck with cast-offs from Liege - Liege are top of their league and consistently successful - even the players that prove surplus to requirements there are unlikely to be any worse than grubbing around taking chances on lower league hotshots, aging has-beens and prospects on loan, as we'd be left with without RD's influence and money.
People are very quick to assume the worst about every single action that RD makes, unfortunately said people include some big name fans and those in the media and it has become a self perpetuating circle, bad rumours go around, are reported, then get spread as fact because they were in a newspaper (bastions of honesty, accuracy and integrity that they are.)
This is one of the alleged most important point, that you have not commented on.
Given we already had 34 points from 22 games, it wasn't exactly an arduous task!
RD may have dictated things as to what players actually came in (I don't buy it, to my mind it was the easiest/safest bet as he was reluctant to spend money one week into his ownership.) But as far as we have seen, Powell picked the players he wanted to pick, Riga has picked the players he wants to pick, mostly the same players in fact.
I do not deny that CP clearly did not see eye to eye with RD on some crucial issues - the evidence is unavoidable and indisputable. But as far as I can see, there has been NO proof RD ever dictated exactly what players/formation to play, merely rumours. If anyone can prove me wrong I will concede the point, but that means actual proof, hard evidence not 'I heard it from x.'
I am not doubting that CP MAY have been leaned on to play certain players, but on current evidence there is nothing to prove it either. Just gossip and rumours, much like the contract that Dick Dastardl- sorry, Roland Duchatelet supposedly returned unsigned having written 'You're fired' on it. Like I say, I have not seen anyone who has even claimed to have read this email themselves, merely heard of it.
The timing of these interviews is very peculiar though - a lot of accusations and paranoia surrounding Roland; and only some if it truly understandable.
Varney is understandable - he was close to Charlton, had an intimate knowledge of the previous regime and was involved in the appointment of Powell. So he's far from the most peculiar of commentators at the moment though.