Of course he is not the 'complete player' at 19. as Afka stated.. Technically excellent as a midfield sweeper / possession ticker over. Still has aspects to his game he needs to improve, particularly offensively, but the bottom line is that out of 20 first team appearances, he got 10 MoM on here, and featured as a top 3 player 17 times. To me I thought he made an immense contribution to the team last season..... not the only one, but certainly appeared to play his heart out, and I never saw him bottle out of a challenge, or 'coast it'. Yes he made some mistakes, but then his vision and cool head was far in excess of a player so young in my opinion. BUT he has gone, so good luck mate, hope you make it.... but I still think there is a long way to go even at West ham. In all honesty a good move if you are patient...... Not always a virtue that players seem to exercise much these days.
We're all disappointed that he's gone. We're gonna be disappointed with the amount of compo that we get. C'est la vie
And that's the problem. Too may people just shrug their shoulders and give up.
My philosophy in life ... Why worry about things that are out of my control. I can't influence DP's decision. He's gone so I move on. That's life
I get it, I really do. Can't change what's happened, but we can influence things so that the compo is just in the future by pressurising the FA, FL etc with fan groups and supporters trusts and so on... :-)
We're all disappointed that he's gone. We're gonna be disappointed with the amount of compo that we get. C'est la vie
And that's the problem. Too may people just shrug their shoulders and give up.
Accepting reality is not "giving up". Accepting reality doesn't mean liking it either.
Or is the alternative to slag off a 19/20 as a "greedy lying ****" on social media. Yeah, sure that will bring the walls of Jericho down.
Poyet is a product of a system. Through luck but also hard work and talent the system has worked out for him. He gets a "dream" job (the dream is playing in the premier league not playing for West Ham before people jump on that).
Nearly all the 100s of kids who came up through the ranks with him have now been "let go". Bad luck, not enough talent but maybe just as much if not more hard work than Poyet put it but still they were "let go". If they stand outside Sparrows Lane asking for loyalty, for a payback of all those years of hard graft, giving up education and a social life, eating what they are told to, etc etc people would just laugh and say "bye, deadwood". You read that horrible word on here every summer and yet those very same people (I know not you Perry) scream for loyalty when the boot is on the other foot.
It's not fair and it's not right but life ain't fair sometimes.
My wife is a Senior Sister. She runs operating theatres. Literally life and death stuff. Does she get paid as much as even the lowest paid Charlton Pro? No, she don't. There's also a lot of bankers and city boys on here who earn more. Is that right? No, it ain't but that is reality of the world we live it.
If any of you want to send my wife some cash to make up for that inequality then feel free.
But no doubt some will say "it was her choice, should and could move to another profession, earn more in Dubai" They would be right but they would be missing the point and they won't see any contradiction in asking a nurse to move if she wants more money but slagging off a pro footballer for doing the same.
To all the fans saying Poyet is in the wrong. A few questions :-
1. How many of you, when you were 19, would have jeapordised the opportunity of your DREAM job, by signing a new work contract, at somewhere you no longer wanted to be ?
2. How many of you at 19, would have signed a new contract at Charlton, knowing full well, it would almost certainly, either put your possible once in a lifetime opportunity at risk, or give you a reduced wage, or reduced signing on fee ?
3. How many of you at 19 years old, living with your mum, would jeapordise your possible once in a lifetime opportunity, where you can remain living at home, surrounded by your friends and family, rather than having to move and not seeing any of them ?
Just put your name here, if you would have. I know I wouldn't have, as a 19 year old.
Is playing for West Ham really "once in a lifetime" ?
We're all disappointed that he's gone. We're gonna be disappointed with the amount of compo that we get. C'est la vie
And that's the problem. Too may people just shrug their shoulders and give up.
Accepting reality is not "giving up". Accepting reality doesn't mean liking it either.
Or is the alternative to slag off a 19/20 as a "greedy lying ****" on social media. Yeah, sure that will bring the walls of Jericho down.
Poyet is a product of a system. Through luck but also hard work and talent the system has worked out for him. He gets a "dream" job (the dream is playing in the premier league not playing for West Ham before people jump on that).
Nearly all the 100s of kids who came up through the ranks with him have now been "let go". Bad luck, not enough talent but maybe just as much if not more hard work than Poyet put it but still they were "let go". If they stand outside Sparrows Lane asking for loyalty, for a payback of all those years of hard graft, giving up education and a social life, eating what they are told to, etc etc people would just laugh and say "bye, deadwood". You read that horrible word on here every summer and yet those very same people (I know not you Perry) scream for loyalty when the boot is on the other foot.
It's not fair and it's not right but life ain't fair sometimes.
My wife is a Senior Sister. She runs operating theatres. Literally life and death stuff. Does she get paid as much as even the lowest paid Charlton Pro? No, she don't. There's also a lot of bankers and city boys on here who earn more. Is that right? No, it ain't but that is reality of the world we live it.
If any of you want to send my wife some cash to make up for that inequality then feel free.
But no doubt some will say "it was her choice, should and could move to another profession, earn more in Dubai" They would be right but they would be missing the point and they won't see any contradiction in asking a nurse to move if she wants more money but slagging off a pro footballer for doing the same.
Here endeth the lecture.
All good points Henners, the only thing I would say is whose "reality" are we accepting? The maximum wage was the reality once upon a time...
To all the fans saying Poyet is in the wrong. A few questions :-
1. How many of you, when you were 19, would have jeapordised the opportunity of your DREAM job, by signing a new work contract, at somewhere you no longer wanted to be ?
2. How many of you at 19, would have signed a new contract at Charlton, knowing full well, it would almost certainly, either put your possible once in a lifetime opportunity at risk, or give you a reduced wage, or reduced signing on fee ?
3. How many of you at 19 years old, living with your mum, would jeapordise your possible once in a lifetime opportunity, where you can remain living at home, surrounded by your friends and family, rather than having to move and not seeing any of them ?
Just put your name here, if you would have. I know I wouldn't have, as a 19 year old.
Is playing for West Ham really "once in a lifetime" ?
Playing in the prem which some of us describe as the best in the world might be.
To all the fans saying Poyet is in the wrong. A few questions :-
1. How many of you, when you were 19, would have jeapordised the opportunity of your DREAM job, by signing a new work contract, at somewhere you no longer wanted to be ?
2. How many of you at 19, would have signed a new contract at Charlton, knowing full well, it would almost certainly, either put your possible once in a lifetime opportunity at risk, or give you a reduced wage, or reduced signing on fee ?
3. How many of you at 19 years old, living with your mum, would jeapordise your possible once in a lifetime opportunity, where you can remain living at home, surrounded by your friends and family, rather than having to move and not seeing any of them ?
Just put your name here, if you would have. I know I wouldn't have, as a 19 year old.
Is playing for West Ham really "once in a lifetime" ?
To all the fans saying Poyet is in the wrong. A few questions :-
1. How many of you, when you were 19, would have jeapordised the opportunity of your DREAM job, by signing a new work contract, at somewhere you no longer wanted to be ?
2. How many of you at 19, would have signed a new contract at Charlton, knowing full well, it would almost certainly, either put your possible once in a lifetime opportunity at risk, or give you a reduced wage, or reduced signing on fee ?
3. How many of you at 19 years old, living with your mum, would jeapordise your possible once in a lifetime opportunity, where you can remain living at home, surrounded by your friends and family, rather than having to move and not seeing any of them ?
Just put your name here, if you would have. I know I wouldn't have, as a 19 year old.
Is playing for West Ham really "once in a lifetime" ?
I said possible, once in a lifetime and it is possible, because he could have stayed at Charlton, got a very serious injury and never made it to The Prem.
We're all disappointed that he's gone. We're gonna be disappointed with the amount of compo that we get. C'est la vie
And that's the problem. Too may people just shrug their shoulders and give up.
Accepting reality is not "giving up". Accepting reality doesn't mean liking it either.
Or is the alternative to slag off a 19/20 as a "greedy lying ****" on social media. Yeah, sure that will bring the walls of Jericho down.
Poyet is a product of a system. Through luck but also hard work and talent the system has worked out for him. He gets a "dream" job (the dream is playing in the premier league not playing for West Ham before people jump on that).
Nearly all the 100s of kids who came up through the ranks with him have now been "let go". Bad luck, not enough talent but maybe just as much if not more hard work than Poyet put it but still they were "let go". If they stand outside Sparrows Lane asking for loyalty, for a payback of all those years of hard graft, giving up education and a social life, eating what they are told to, etc etc people would just laugh and say "bye, deadwood". You read that horrible word on here every summer and yet those very same people (I know not you Perry) scream for loyalty when the boot is on the other foot.
It's not fair and it's not right but life ain't fair sometimes.
My wife is a Senior Sister. She runs operating theatres. Literally life and death stuff. Does she get paid as much as even the lowest paid Charlton Pro? No, she don't. There's also a lot of bankers and city boys on here who earn more. Is that right? No, it ain't but that is reality of the world we live it.
If any of you want to send my wife some cash to make up for that inequality then feel free.
But no doubt some will say "it was her choice, should and could move to another profession, earn more in Dubai" They would be right but they would be missing the point and they won't see any contradiction in asking a nurse to move if she wants more money but slagging off a pro footballer for doing the same.
Here endeth the lecture.
All good points Henners, the only thing I would say is whose "reality" are we accepting? The maximum wage was the reality once upon a time...
There is only one reality. Now. You are referring to the past but the past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
The maximum wage was abolished in 1961/2? Literally a life time ago for some of us : - )
Poyet is definitely a player who will fit in well with the West Ham ethos (even if it isn't the Big Sam ethos) as the fans do appreciate players who try to play good football. As for loyalty, yes it's very disappointing, but since he got in the 1st team he's seen Powell sacked and Riga not kept on, so the club have hardly set a good example on that front...
I am sure the Hampsters know how much they can get him for,i am sure they are in the driving seat,lets hope we get the best deal we can,then lets move on
I don't despair at anyone Algarve, and i have not said that. I'm just taking a step back and not purely looking upon it from a historical 'supporter' point of view.
Supporter point of view is now in complete constrast to the view of anyone actually in the game, its not the gentlemanly utopia people wished it was. Players (in general, there are always an odd exception), don't really give a damn about their clubs, supporters, even their fellow team mates. Their number one priority is themselves, and what is best for themselves.
Clubs now will sweat everything they possibly can out of a supporter that they think they can get away with to maximise their revenue. Clubs will use players as harshly as possible for the benefit of the club not the individual. Poyet was trained up because Charlton hoped to benefit from it. If he wasn't good enough they would have elbowed him at 18, 20, without a moments thought or help in securing an outside job. Where is the loyalty to a youngster like Grant Basey who pretty much was never the same player after getting injured playing for Charlton. Where is the loyalty to long-term staff who in various forms have been treated like sh*t in the last few years?
As I said the other day, there are no morals in the game (unless a club was already looking to out / benefit from someone who has mis-demeaned), and there is no certainly loyalty.
I'm gutted Poyet is going because he is technically the best youngster i have seen break through at Charlton. I'd have given anything to see him for another two years. But this is how the game is now and one of the reasons i don't love it so much. Poyet was allowed to get himself into a position where he holds the cards. Risky approach on the players point of view, but after the superb 2nd half of the season, everything fell to his benefit because he was now a player that was going to be in demand. Had Charlton continued to not play him for the remainder of the season (or he didn't perform as well as he did), the offers from others might not have been there, and almost definitely the offer Charlton would have put to him would probably have been as misely as possible. That's how it goes.
Clubs at our level need to breed a narrow range of players like Solly and Harrott that are good, but not that good, because anyone better (or potentially better) will have offers to trade-up and it is currently massively weighted in the players favour to take what on the table is the best offer for them individually. That's why players like Poyet, Jenkinson, Casey Palmer, Sean McGinty etc barely scratch the surface with their developing club in recent times. That's sadly how the game is now.
I strongly recommend if you want a decent, first-hand insight into how the game operates nowadays, get a copy of 'I am the Secret Footballer'
As for the anology used by @Jdredsox 'I do feel that Poyet himself should cover the clubs costs for training him up to professional level', firstly adopting real-world examples to football just simply isn't worth starting with because the game holds so little real-world principles and rules. And that is what the compensation / tribunal scenario is for, and why it needs to be (on a governance level) a lot more robust than it currently is.
But playing along with that, it is not completely out of the unknown for a firm to grant study leave, sponsor an employee through some kind of Degree, Masters, Accountancy exams only for that employee when passing to shortly after get a trade-up job with a rival. or a pub to take on an employee as a barman, train him up show him the ropes, then that bloke to get a job as assistant manager for the bar down the road. Those things happen all the time.
I appreciate your integrity, AFKA - and that you are sanguine when self-interest and the offer of wealth appear to crush the best of human values. One of the qualities I admired about Chris Powell was his concern for his fellow men; his good work for the PFA is testament to this. Yet I was the first to want him replaced when we played all those games without looking like scoring.
This interest - obsession, even - with money expressed by many fans about the financial value of Poyet misses an important point. AlgarveAddick is right to suggest that Poyet may have rejected a new contract because it came with an entrapping transfer tag, just as Henry Irving is right to remind us that we will be compensated by negotiation or the tribunal (however 'unfair'), and that we as fans should be more gracious about the prospects of a very young footballer's future career.
However, as a punter of fifty years' standing, I remind you that Poyet appeared in a mere 23 games for us - mostly passing sideways. It wasn't he who saved us from relegation, and neither would he be crucial in a tilt at the play-offs next season. For a start, we need an aggressive midfielder who is able to seize possession, bustle forward, and thread the killer pass.
It keeps being repeated that Jenkinson signed a contract (in 2011). I don't think he did. My understanding is that he refused to sign one and that the reason we got a good deal is that our then chief executive acquired evidence about Arsenal's conduct that was effective leverage, but if others know better fair enough.
What about the academy players we kicked out at the end of the season? Where was our loyalty to them?
We tried to make them good enough but they weren't.
I wish people would stop protecting Poyet and slating the board
Not slating the board at all and not protecting Poyet either.
I had a contract in a previous job with a bank. At end of that contract they offered me an extension but I turned it down as had another better offer. At the end of that contract that company let me go as contract ended. It happens. I wasnt disloyal, and neither was the bank that let me go.
It keeps being repeated that Jenkinson signed a contract (in 2011). I don't think he did. My understanding is that he refused to sign one and that the reason we got a good deal is that our then chief executive acquired evidence about Arsenal's conduct that was effective leverage, but if others know better fair enough.
It keeps being repeated that Jenkinson signed a contract (in 2011). I don't think he did. My understanding is that he refused to sign one and that the reason we got a good deal is that our then chief executive acquired evidence about Arsenal's conduct that was effective leverage, but if others know better fair enough.
Perhaps history repeats itself? Pure speculation on my part but I wouldn't put it beyond West Ham to induce Poyet not to accept any CAFC contract offer over the last 12 months. For a CAFC contract doesn't just increase the fee but it gives CAFC control over timing and end destination of any transfer. One has to admit that it is strange that CAFC have managed to secure the services of every youth talent coming out of the academy these last couple of years.
The outcome of negotiations or tribunal will be interesting.
It keeps being repeated that Jenkinson signed a contract (in 2011). I don't think he did. My understanding is that he refused to sign one and that the reason we got a good deal is that our then chief executive acquired evidence about Arsenal's conduct that was effective leverage, but if others know better fair enough.
Perhaps history repeats itself? Pure speculation on my part but I wouldn't put it beyond West Ham to induce Poyet not to accept any CAFC contract offer over the last 12 months. For a CAFC contract doesn't just increase the fee but it gives CAFC control over timing and end destination of any transfer. One has to admit that it is strange that CAFC have managed to secure the services of every youth talent coming out of the academy these last couple of years.
The outcome of negotiations or tribunal will be interesting.
With due respect to the players involved, that is obviously in part a function of how they are perceived by other clubs. It's relatively unusual not to secure academy players on their first pro contract - Defoe being the most prominent exception - if the club wants them.
It's also much easier to sign young players while they have some time to go on their existing contract, as you are offering them an immediate pay rise, often from a very low base. Unless there is competition, it's hardly a triumph to agree to pay an existing employee more, which isn't to say that it's not worth doing.
We have in fact lost a number of youngsters to other clubs in recent years, as documented in the accounts and elsewhere. Time will tell how they compare with the current crop. One example is Kasey Palmer.
Large, I spat at hi in the dinner queue (Yes I was totally out of order and I deplore it even though I was a young kid back then), went to another school and quite a few people supported Liverpool, I enjoyed watching players like Dalgleigh, Rush etc. I used to take the piss out of Chartlon until Charlton nearly went ouf of business and "felt sorry" for the but changed my allegience to Charlton when they started to play at Selhurst etc and saw how much it meant to a mate and started to go to few a games. Bless her cotton socks before then my late Nan gave me a football signed by Charlton players such as Derek Hale, etc and I thoguht "ohh geez Nan, thanks I am a Liverpool fan and I got a Charlton signed football. Last I saw the football was when I lived in Delafield Road and I had kicked it over the railway line (not intentional I hasten to add).
no good keep going on about it he gone he did not want to play for charlton lets hope he does ok being in a shit team i hope he knows how to kick the ball high
Dunno what to think about all this; whether Poyet is a greedy so & so who jumped ship at the first chance he got or he's just a professional who is looking after his long term financial interests and taking advantage of our own poor planning on not getting him signed up to a contract before now. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle as usual. The bigger question is where do I claim my prize...
So, not withstanding the abuse I'll get. How good is this lad?
Technically excellent as a midfield sweeper / possession ticker over. Still has aspects to his game he needs to improve, particularly offensively, but the bottom line is that out of 20 first team appearances, he got 10 MoM on here, and featured as a top 3 player 17 times.
Precisely, AFKA - it just goes to show how low are some people's expectations. We still lost at home to Barnsley - who were quickly relegated, don't forget - even with the saintly Diego Poyet playing facile ten-yard sideways balls left or right.
I demand better than that. This time last season - when Poyet was unknown - we kicked off against our inferiors at Bournemouth with an experienced midfield of old Gower, Hughes - and the people's hero Bradley Pritchard, who went crashing in without a flicker of thought and was banned for three games - and we lost, 2-1. Lost at home to Boro on the following Saturday, too, and never recovered.
A single year ago our midfield was utterly vacuous - and it still is. Diego Poyet blended in to the vague anonymity. Did he ever make an incisive pass, or, with the ball at his feet, beat a Huddersfield defender, double-shuffle, advance and set our strikers free? No.
Bolton, Birmingham, Brentford - in August they will glance at our squad of Jack Munns and Joe Pigott, smile, and zip down the wing to send lethal crosses swinging in to the box and back over again. Bob Peeters is aged only 40 - just seven years older than his vastly more experienced captain Johnnie Jackson - yet he has been appointed with all the knowledge of the Belgian Conference. He cannot believe his luck at landing this job.
Isn't it about bloody time we raised our horizons and stamped our authority?
Comments
Technically excellent as a midfield sweeper / possession ticker over. Still has aspects to his game he needs to improve, particularly offensively, but the bottom line is that out of 20 first team appearances, he got 10 MoM on here, and featured as a top 3 player 17 times.
To me I thought he made an immense contribution to the team last season..... not the only one, but certainly appeared to play his heart out, and I never saw him bottle out of a challenge, or 'coast it'.
Yes he made some mistakes, but then his vision and cool head was far in excess of a player so young in my opinion. BUT he has gone, so good luck mate, hope you make it.... but I still think there is a long way to go even at West ham. In all honesty a good move if you are patient...... Not always a virtue that players seem to exercise much these days.
Or is the alternative to slag off a 19/20 as a "greedy lying ****" on social media. Yeah, sure that will bring the walls of Jericho down.
Poyet is a product of a system. Through luck but also hard work and talent the system has worked out for him. He gets a "dream" job (the dream is playing in the premier league not playing for West Ham before people jump on that).
Nearly all the 100s of kids who came up through the ranks with him have now been "let go". Bad luck, not enough talent but maybe just as much if not more hard work than Poyet put it but still they were "let go". If they stand outside Sparrows Lane asking for loyalty, for a payback of all those years of hard graft, giving up education and a social life, eating what they are told to, etc etc people would just laugh and say "bye, deadwood". You read that horrible word on here every summer and yet those very same people (I know not you Perry) scream for loyalty when the boot is on the other foot.
It's not fair and it's not right but life ain't fair sometimes.
My wife is a Senior Sister. She runs operating theatres. Literally life and death stuff. Does she get paid as much as even the lowest paid Charlton Pro? No, she don't. There's also a lot of bankers and city boys on here who earn more. Is that right? No, it ain't but that is reality of the world we live it.
If any of you want to send my wife some cash to make up for that inequality then feel free.
But no doubt some will say "it was her choice, should and could move to another profession, earn more in Dubai" They would be right but they would be missing the point and they won't see any contradiction in asking a nurse to move if she wants more money but slagging off a pro footballer for doing the same.
Here endeth the lecture.
The maximum wage was abolished in 1961/2? Literally a life time ago for some of us : - )
As for loyalty, yes it's very disappointing, but since he got in the 1st team he's seen Powell sacked and Riga not kept on, so the club have hardly set a good example on that front...
This interest - obsession, even - with money expressed by many fans about the financial value of Poyet misses an important point. AlgarveAddick is right to suggest that Poyet may have rejected a new contract because it came with an entrapping transfer tag, just as Henry Irving is right to remind us that we will be compensated by negotiation or the tribunal (however 'unfair'), and that we as fans should be more gracious about the prospects of a very young footballer's future career.
However, as a punter of fifty years' standing, I remind you that Poyet appeared in a mere 23 games for us - mostly passing sideways. It wasn't he who saved us from relegation, and neither would he be crucial in a tilt at the play-offs next season. For a start, we need an aggressive midfielder who is able to seize possession, bustle forward, and thread the killer pass.
And then, our strikers might score.
He will leave you for spurs at the drop of a hat even if you offer better terms than he was contracted to.
One has to admit that it is strange that CAFC have managed to secure the services of every youth talent coming out of the academy these last couple of years.
The outcome of negotiations or tribunal will be interesting.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WEST HAM?! HAHAHAHAHAHA UNDER BIG SAM?!
Have fun laughing your way to the bank Diego, carrying your complimentary dildo and sunglasses for watching the ball hoofed over your head all day.
Two words, Ravel Morrison.
You've destroyed your career mate! Seeya sometime this season when you're loaned to Fulham to get some game time.
It's also much easier to sign young players while they have some time to go on their existing contract, as you are offering them an immediate pay rise, often from a very low base. Unless there is competition, it's hardly a triumph to agree to pay an existing employee more, which isn't to say that it's not worth doing.
We have in fact lost a number of youngsters to other clubs in recent years, as documented in the accounts and elsewhere. Time will tell how they compare with the current crop. One example is Kasey Palmer.
I've had a skinful?
Nothing on BBC or the W Ham websites, but Sky Sports are reporting that "according to their sources" he is having a medical with W Ham.
So - I think all this conjecture is a bit premature. Remember what Henry says............
I demand better than that. This time last season - when Poyet was unknown - we kicked off against our inferiors at Bournemouth with an experienced midfield of old Gower, Hughes - and the people's hero Bradley Pritchard, who went crashing in without a flicker of thought and was banned for three games - and we lost, 2-1. Lost at home to Boro on the following Saturday, too, and never recovered.
A single year ago our midfield was utterly vacuous - and it still is. Diego Poyet blended in to the vague anonymity. Did he ever make an incisive pass, or, with the ball at his feet, beat a Huddersfield defender, double-shuffle, advance and set our strikers free? No.
Bolton, Birmingham, Brentford - in August they will glance at our squad of Jack Munns and Joe Pigott, smile, and zip down the wing to send lethal crosses swinging in to the box and back over again. Bob Peeters is aged only 40 - just seven years older than his vastly more experienced captain Johnnie Jackson - yet he has been appointed with all the knowledge of the Belgian Conference. He cannot believe his luck at landing this job.
Isn't it about bloody time we raised our horizons and stamped our authority?
I