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Big spending clubs to mount legal challenge to financial fair play.

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  • None unless we win the FA Cup : - )

    The UEFA regs are for clubs in the European Cup and Uefa cup (still use the proper names).

    What it does show is that Platini's rules aren't anti-english clubs as apply to all clubs. The 76 can't all be English : - )
  • Bet rednap and the rest of the qpr cronnies are wriggling n squirming
    In their seats thinking of ways to wrangle,fix,cheat,con,bend the rules to buy their way out of it?
  • I understand there are now 2 distinct groups of clubs looking at challenging the Championship FFP rules:

    1 the spendthrifts (Leicester, QPR, etc), who are saying the fines would be far too much, drive some of them out of business, etc, and
    2 some of the clubs who tried to follow the rules as closely as possible, who are aggrieved that the FL has abandoned the idea of distributing the fines among them as originally voted for, and decided to give the fines to charity instead, a change that was not consulted on. The Daily Mail story that CAFC may challenge the FL would presumably mean it is thinking of doing so as one of this group of clubs. Could RD have been planning for this ever since the takeover?
  • Been down the pub Seth?
  • Yeah. Reading that back it is a bit of a rant.
    Oh well.
  • seth plum said:

    Yeah. Reading that back it is a bit of a rant.
    Oh well.

    Perhaps, but I couldn't agree more.

  • QPR results out today, lost £65m last season, and had a bigger wage bill then Borussia Dortmund who made the Champions League final
  • This is an embaressment to football. I think anybody who questions FFP should be quoted QPR.
  • Rothko said:

    QPR results out today, lost £65m last season, and had a bigger wage bill then Borussia Dortmund who made the Champions League final

    Was that their Premier League season?

    Astounding!
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  • So Leicester announce losses of £34m, Notts Forest £17m. According to the analysis, punishment kicks in next season if they fail to bring it under £8m. Unless Leicester or Forest get promoted, I can't see them getting it under £8m. There must be so many more clubs in this position, plus the likes of Cardiff & WBA if they get relegated, coming down with the wage bills they are likely to have. Even Liverpool said their losses were around £50m. The only way they can bring this back into line is by drastically reducing player wages, as that is where all the money goes. We will we ever see this happen though?
  • Rothko said:

    QPR results out today, lost £65m last season, and had a bigger wage bill then Borussia Dortmund who made the Champions League final

    Hilarious that Arry is still lauded by the press. unbelieveable jeff.
  • QPR's debt has doubled to £177 million, yes that is £0.177 Billion.
  • I'm not clued up on legal stuff and I'm sure someone will put me right, but is it possible that this is a delaying tactic?
    That is, these teams know they'll get penalised under the FFP regulations, so they're putting a challenge in hoping to drag the case out and get the date when FFP comes into play moved back a year?
    Just a thought.

    QUite possible. And by the time it comes in they hope to be away in the Prem.

    Leicester might be promoted so the challenge comes down to whether they pay a penalty. QPR are exempt from a player registration freeze next January as they are just relegated but if they are not promoted and refuse to drop the challenge then I don't see how the league can accept them into next seasons competition!
    The daily fail cites 10 clubs but that has to be rubbish - only five or six clubs are at risk of non compliance and Brighton and Boro have cut their cloth.
    Forest and Blackburn are screwed and will have to sell high value (high cost) players before 30th June to have any chance of bringing losses below the limits.
    FAPL discussion interesting but probably worthy of a separate thread? They have negotiated one of the biggest sports tv rights in the world next to NFL and grand prix because the product is attract and the league is competitive at all levels...league title, champions league and relegation. If they wanted FAPL 2 they would have put it in place by now - who knows what Greg Dyke and Clive Efford have in mind
  • The Football League says considerable progress has been made on proposed changes to the Championship's Financial Fair Play regulations.

    Representatives from all of the 24 Championship clubs met in London on Wednesday to consider changes to FFP following an increase to Premier League parachute payments.

    Some Championship clubs are concerned they cannot compete financially with clubs who are relegated from the Premier League and receive parachute payments of up to £59m over four years.

    Watford chief executive Scott Duxbury recently said that while he agrees with the ethos of FFP, the current plans need adapting, while Brighton have said they would be "very disappointed" if the rules were changed.

    A Football League spokesman said: "Considerable progress was achieved on potential improvements to the current regulations following a constructive debate between clubs.

    "In particular, there was a focus on maintaining fair competition between clubs, in light of the substantial increase in Premier League parachute payments brought in since the introduction of FFP.

    "Clubs also considered the introduction of a 'real time' approach to financial reporting instead of the current retrospective analysis of club accounts.

    "The League and Championship clubs will continue developing this work in order to achieve consensus, as any changes to the current regulations will require support from 75 per cent of clubs in order to be approved.
  • I can't see how they can change the rules for this season just as it is finishing - Brighton have sold players in order to comply. There must be more than five other clubs like Charlton who would block a change as it is not in their interests to let clubs buy their way to promotion and inflate player wagees in the second tier.
    The most rational move would be to increase the solidarity payment of £2M made to all clubs not in receipt of parachute payments - there are less of them this season (16 as opposed to 17 last season) and this number may well come down to 14 next season. An extra £2M would help clubs compete or move closer to breakeven whichever they choose and an extra £20M spent here is buttons compared to the overall FAPL deal. (17 x £2M = £34M and 14 x 4 = £56M)
  • The FL are a pointless body, they can't even stop a convicted fraud steer taking over one of their member clubs, I have absolutely no faith that FFP will ever be imposed successfully.
  • I would love to see the FL demand that the parachute money be shared equally between all the clubs or we wouldn't accept the teams that are relegated into the Championship.

    That would make it interesting.
  • The football league can't even organise a decent TV show.

    Or is that the BBC...

    Anyway lets blame it on the football league.
  • Well somebody has to take the blame if this doesn't happen. If the rules are changed and Brighton just miss out - they can say they did this because they were trying to comply with them - how can this be fair?

    This is an opportunity to make the game sustainable, and if it is missed, it makes the prospect of losing some clubs far more likely.
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  • edited April 2014

    I can't see how they can change the rules for this season just as it is finishing - Brighton have sold players in order to comply. There must be more than five other clubs like Charlton who would block a change as it is not in their interests to let clubs buy their way to promotion and inflate player wagees in the second tier.
    The most rational move would be to increase the solidarity payment of £2M made to all clubs not in receipt of parachute payments - there are less of them this season (16 as opposed to 17 last season) and this number may well come down to 14 next season. An extra £2M would help clubs compete or move closer to breakeven whichever they choose and an extra £20M spent here is buttons compared to the overall FAPL deal. (17 x £2M = £34M and 14 x 4 = £56M)

    Agree its ludicrous to change mid season.

    However I think the 2m suggestion is bit short sighted just throwing (more!) money into the picture. whilst it helps narrow the gap between relegated clubs & the rest, ultimately it'll just end up being spent on wages etc in most cases rather than used sensibly.

    That said I don't think there is a happy solution. Global demand for PL vs national demand for the FL has created an insurmountable gap in revenue streams that I don't think can be solved - with the possible exception of the, I think, sadly inevitable breakaway European super league. A while off yet but a matter of when not if for me.
  • In tonight's Evening Standard

    League Clubs to vote on changes to FFP

    Championship clubs will vote this week on proposals to change the Football League’s Financial Fair Play rules.

    A number of ammendments have been put forward by both the Football League and clubs in an attempt to improve the regulations.

    The proposals need a two-thirds majority of the 24 Championship clubs to be approved. Results of the vote are expected to be announced later this week.

    Any changes to the regulations would relate to the accounts for the 2014‑2015 season.

    Clubs who have lost more than £8million this season will be subject to the punishments which have already been agreed — a transfer embargo starting in January 2015. However, if a club promoted to the Premier League this season have broken the limits they will be fined.

    Queens Park Rangers, who face Derby in the Championship Play-off Final on Saturday, lost £65million in the 2012-13 season — their last in the Premier League. Although their figures for this season will not be known until later in the year, it would take a mammoth effort to get under the £8m limit.

    Football League clubs will submit their latest financial accounts in December.

    FFP rules were introduced in 2012 to try and stop clubs gambling unsustainably on getting into the Premier League.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'd say that this is good news from our perspective. It suggests that the rules will hold for the season just ending and this ought to be a positive for Clubs that have complied.
  • edited May 2014
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  • Am I reading it wrong? It seems to say that under the current arrangements, clubs will be allowed to lose £6m and what was voted down were proposals to increase the amount that they can lose? In which case, the decision would definitely favour RD's plans for a club that does not lose millions upon millions of pounds each year?
  • edited May 2014
    i really ought to read more than the headlines.
  • http://www.itv.com/sport/football/article/2014-05-21/championship-clubs-defeat-proposed-ffp-changes/

    As far as i can see RD's plan for sustainable spending as well as remaining competitive relies heavily on FFP, therefore it can not be over stated how bad this news may be for Charlton.

    Weren't the proposals all meant to increase the amount a club could lose whilst still 'complying' with FFP? In which case, surely it's good news for RD and Charlton?

  • Do we know if Bournemouth are racking up debts or is their owner just overly generous donating to the club
  • Do we know if Bournemouth are racking up debts or is their owner just overly generous donating to the club

    Thing is with promotion to the Premier Keague and the bumper £60m in tv revenues a £15m loss becomes a £45m profit (before increased costs).

    In truth if they can get promoted this season and only make another loss of £15m they would recoup all of that loss in one season in the Premier League and with parachute oaymebts can probably break even for a couple of seasons if they come down.

    Ironically it is an achievement to get promoted for £30m these days. It is something that many clubs have failed to do. I don't especially like Bournemouth and I suspect their quick rise is, in part, due to other clubs trying to keep within FFP but either way it looks like they might get themselves promoted for less than the first year TV bonus which is, actually, good financial business.

    That last paragraph is, probably, the most depressing!
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