Bet rednap and the rest of the qpr cronnies are wriggling n squirming In their seats thinking of ways to wrangle,fix,cheat,con,bend the rules to buy their way out of it?
I understand there are now 2 distinct groups of clubs looking at challenging the Championship FFP rules:
1 the spendthrifts (Leicester, QPR, etc), who are saying the fines would be far too much, drive some of them out of business, etc, and 2 some of the clubs who tried to follow the rules as closely as possible, who are aggrieved that the FL has abandoned the idea of distributing the fines among them as originally voted for, and decided to give the fines to charity instead, a change that was not consulted on. The Daily Mail story that CAFC may challenge the FL would presumably mean it is thinking of doing so as one of this group of clubs. Could RD have been planning for this ever since the takeover?
Yes I support Charlton Athletic, but in order to support them there has to be other teams to play, so there is no point in destroying the other teams and drive them out of existence. Personally I can't wait for a European Super League, I would love Manchester United, and Chelsea and some others to bygger off and play forever in Europe. I would be delighted that Arsenal fans can follow their team every other Saturday to St Petersburg, or Naples, or Istanbul. Arsenal fans need not see them play Tottenham or Newcastle, what better than a Boxing Day fixture in Lisbon? What is even better is that they can take their ball with them. They can if needed be kicked out of the English system altogether. They can have a new governing body, they can have their own referee panels, they can have nursery clubs, different rules, franchises, and their big money can tramp all over the place. I would like to get rid of Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal altogether. The remaining league would be strong and competitive. there would still be fixtures like Newcastle v Sunderland, West Brom v Villa and West Ham fans can have a boxing day game against Tottenham, and Norwich fans can travel to the likes of Everton every other Saturday. Domestic football would not die.
If overarching bodies like the FA try to stop things, well Abramovich et al are rich enough to set up a new governing body. We could have as many footballing governing bodies as Boxing does, even have two world cups if you like.
However a breakaway Euro league would eventually die, or be played in empty stadiums with CGI providing crowd effects for television.
I am sure that Manchester United fans would love that scenario wouldn't they? One day they may even play in Blue as Manchester Matadors and have a lovely new stadium in Ibiza!
Might even be good for FC United of Manchester too.
Even better Manchester United could play Real Madrid every week for ever.
So Leicester announce losses of £34m, Notts Forest £17m. According to the analysis, punishment kicks in next season if they fail to bring it under £8m. Unless Leicester or Forest get promoted, I can't see them getting it under £8m. There must be so many more clubs in this position, plus the likes of Cardiff & WBA if they get relegated, coming down with the wage bills they are likely to have. Even Liverpool said their losses were around £50m. The only way they can bring this back into line is by drastically reducing player wages, as that is where all the money goes. We will we ever see this happen though?
I'm not clued up on legal stuff and I'm sure someone will put me right, but is it possible that this is a delaying tactic? That is, these teams know they'll get penalised under the FFP regulations, so they're putting a challenge in hoping to drag the case out and get the date when FFP comes into play moved back a year? Just a thought.
QUite possible. And by the time it comes in they hope to be away in the Prem.
Leicester might be promoted so the challenge comes down to whether they pay a penalty. QPR are exempt from a player registration freeze next January as they are just relegated but if they are not promoted and refuse to drop the challenge then I don't see how the league can accept them into next seasons competition! The daily fail cites 10 clubs but that has to be rubbish - only five or six clubs are at risk of non compliance and Brighton and Boro have cut their cloth. Forest and Blackburn are screwed and will have to sell high value (high cost) players before 30th June to have any chance of bringing losses below the limits. FAPL discussion interesting but probably worthy of a separate thread? They have negotiated one of the biggest sports tv rights in the world next to NFL and grand prix because the product is attract and the league is competitive at all levels...league title, champions league and relegation. If they wanted FAPL 2 they would have put it in place by now - who knows what Greg Dyke and Clive Efford have in mind
The Football League says considerable progress has been made on proposed changes to the Championship's Financial Fair Play regulations.
Representatives from all of the 24 Championship clubs met in London on Wednesday to consider changes to FFP following an increase to Premier League parachute payments.
Some Championship clubs are concerned they cannot compete financially with clubs who are relegated from the Premier League and receive parachute payments of up to £59m over four years.
Watford chief executive Scott Duxbury recently said that while he agrees with the ethos of FFP, the current plans need adapting, while Brighton have said they would be "very disappointed" if the rules were changed.
A Football League spokesman said: "Considerable progress was achieved on potential improvements to the current regulations following a constructive debate between clubs.
"In particular, there was a focus on maintaining fair competition between clubs, in light of the substantial increase in Premier League parachute payments brought in since the introduction of FFP.
"Clubs also considered the introduction of a 'real time' approach to financial reporting instead of the current retrospective analysis of club accounts.
"The League and Championship clubs will continue developing this work in order to achieve consensus, as any changes to the current regulations will require support from 75 per cent of clubs in order to be approved.
I can't see how they can change the rules for this season just as it is finishing - Brighton have sold players in order to comply. There must be more than five other clubs like Charlton who would block a change as it is not in their interests to let clubs buy their way to promotion and inflate player wagees in the second tier. The most rational move would be to increase the solidarity payment of £2M made to all clubs not in receipt of parachute payments - there are less of them this season (16 as opposed to 17 last season) and this number may well come down to 14 next season. An extra £2M would help clubs compete or move closer to breakeven whichever they choose and an extra £20M spent here is buttons compared to the overall FAPL deal. (17 x £2M = £34M and 14 x 4 = £56M)
The FL are a pointless body, they can't even stop a convicted fraud steer taking over one of their member clubs, I have absolutely no faith that FFP will ever be imposed successfully.
I would love to see the FL demand that the parachute money be shared equally between all the clubs or we wouldn't accept the teams that are relegated into the Championship.
Well somebody has to take the blame if this doesn't happen. If the rules are changed and Brighton just miss out - they can say they did this because they were trying to comply with them - how can this be fair?
This is an opportunity to make the game sustainable, and if it is missed, it makes the prospect of losing some clubs far more likely.
I can't see how they can change the rules for this season just as it is finishing - Brighton have sold players in order to comply. There must be more than five other clubs like Charlton who would block a change as it is not in their interests to let clubs buy their way to promotion and inflate player wagees in the second tier. The most rational move would be to increase the solidarity payment of £2M made to all clubs not in receipt of parachute payments - there are less of them this season (16 as opposed to 17 last season) and this number may well come down to 14 next season. An extra £2M would help clubs compete or move closer to breakeven whichever they choose and an extra £20M spent here is buttons compared to the overall FAPL deal. (17 x £2M = £34M and 14 x 4 = £56M)
Agree its ludicrous to change mid season.
However I think the 2m suggestion is bit short sighted just throwing (more!) money into the picture. whilst it helps narrow the gap between relegated clubs & the rest, ultimately it'll just end up being spent on wages etc in most cases rather than used sensibly.
That said I don't think there is a happy solution. Global demand for PL vs national demand for the FL has created an insurmountable gap in revenue streams that I don't think can be solved - with the possible exception of the, I think, sadly inevitable breakaway European super league. A while off yet but a matter of when not if for me.
Championship clubs will vote this week on proposals to change the Football League’s Financial Fair Play rules.
A number of ammendments have been put forward by both the Football League and clubs in an attempt to improve the regulations.
The proposals need a two-thirds majority of the 24 Championship clubs to be approved. Results of the vote are expected to be announced later this week.
Any changes to the regulations would relate to the accounts for the 2014‑2015 season.
Clubs who have lost more than £8million this season will be subject to the punishments which have already been agreed — a transfer embargo starting in January 2015. However, if a club promoted to the Premier League this season have broken the limits they will be fined.
Queens Park Rangers, who face Derby in the Championship Play-off Final on Saturday, lost £65million in the 2012-13 season — their last in the Premier League. Although their figures for this season will not be known until later in the year, it would take a mammoth effort to get under the £8m limit.
Football League clubs will submit their latest financial accounts in December.
FFP rules were introduced in 2012 to try and stop clubs gambling unsustainably on getting into the Premier League.
I'd say that this is good news from our perspective. It suggests that the rules will hold for the season just ending and this ought to be a positive for Clubs that have complied.
Am I reading it wrong? It seems to say that under the current arrangements, clubs will be allowed to lose £6m and what was voted down were proposals to increase the amount that they can lose? In which case, the decision would definitely favour RD's plans for a club that does not lose millions upon millions of pounds each year?
As far as i can see RD's plan for sustainable spending as well as remaining competitive relies heavily on FFP, therefore it can not be over stated how bad this news may be for Charlton.
Weren't the proposals all meant to increase the amount a club could lose whilst still 'complying' with FFP? In which case, surely it's good news for RD and Charlton?
FFP is obviously not working when a club with sub 10,000 attendances can go out and spend this sort of money fairly regularly and I'd imagine his wages would be minimum £10k per week.
Very frustrating when we're trying to do it the right way and also makes me grind my teeth when the press goes on about how brilliant it is that Bournemouth are top of the league.
Do we know if Bournemouth are racking up debts or is their owner just overly generous donating to the club
Thing is with promotion to the Premier Keague and the bumper £60m in tv revenues a £15m loss becomes a £45m profit (before increased costs).
In truth if they can get promoted this season and only make another loss of £15m they would recoup all of that loss in one season in the Premier League and with parachute oaymebts can probably break even for a couple of seasons if they come down.
Ironically it is an achievement to get promoted for £30m these days. It is something that many clubs have failed to do. I don't especially like Bournemouth and I suspect their quick rise is, in part, due to other clubs trying to keep within FFP but either way it looks like they might get themselves promoted for less than the first year TV bonus which is, actually, good financial business.
That last paragraph is, probably, the most depressing!
Comments
The UEFA regs are for clubs in the European Cup and Uefa cup (still use the proper names).
What it does show is that Platini's rules aren't anti-english clubs as apply to all clubs. The 76 can't all be English : - )
In their seats thinking of ways to wrangle,fix,cheat,con,bend the rules to buy their way out of it?
1 the spendthrifts (Leicester, QPR, etc), who are saying the fines would be far too much, drive some of them out of business, etc, and
2 some of the clubs who tried to follow the rules as closely as possible, who are aggrieved that the FL has abandoned the idea of distributing the fines among them as originally voted for, and decided to give the fines to charity instead, a change that was not consulted on. The Daily Mail story that CAFC may challenge the FL would presumably mean it is thinking of doing so as one of this group of clubs. Could RD have been planning for this ever since the takeover?
Personally I can't wait for a European Super League, I would love Manchester United, and Chelsea and some others to bygger off and play forever in Europe. I would be delighted that Arsenal fans can follow their team every other Saturday to St Petersburg, or Naples, or Istanbul. Arsenal fans need not see them play Tottenham or Newcastle, what better than a Boxing Day fixture in Lisbon?
What is even better is that they can take their ball with them. They can if needed be kicked out of the English system altogether. They can have a new governing body, they can have their own referee panels, they can have nursery clubs, different rules, franchises, and their big money can tramp all over the place.
I would like to get rid of Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal altogether.
The remaining league would be strong and competitive. there would still be fixtures like Newcastle v Sunderland, West Brom v Villa and West Ham fans can have a boxing day game against Tottenham, and Norwich fans can travel to the likes of Everton every other Saturday. Domestic football would not die.
If overarching bodies like the FA try to stop things, well Abramovich et al are rich enough to set up a new governing body. We could have as many footballing governing bodies as Boxing does, even have two world cups if you like.
However a breakaway Euro league would eventually die, or be played in empty stadiums with CGI providing crowd effects for television.
I am sure that Manchester United fans would love that scenario wouldn't they? One day they may even play in Blue as Manchester Matadors and have a lovely new stadium in Ibiza!
Might even be good for FC United of Manchester too.
Even better Manchester United could play Real Madrid every week for ever.
Oh well.
Astounding!
The daily fail cites 10 clubs but that has to be rubbish - only five or six clubs are at risk of non compliance and Brighton and Boro have cut their cloth.
Forest and Blackburn are screwed and will have to sell high value (high cost) players before 30th June to have any chance of bringing losses below the limits.
FAPL discussion interesting but probably worthy of a separate thread? They have negotiated one of the biggest sports tv rights in the world next to NFL and grand prix because the product is attract and the league is competitive at all levels...league title, champions league and relegation. If they wanted FAPL 2 they would have put it in place by now - who knows what Greg Dyke and Clive Efford have in mind
Representatives from all of the 24 Championship clubs met in London on Wednesday to consider changes to FFP following an increase to Premier League parachute payments.
Some Championship clubs are concerned they cannot compete financially with clubs who are relegated from the Premier League and receive parachute payments of up to £59m over four years.
Watford chief executive Scott Duxbury recently said that while he agrees with the ethos of FFP, the current plans need adapting, while Brighton have said they would be "very disappointed" if the rules were changed.
A Football League spokesman said: "Considerable progress was achieved on potential improvements to the current regulations following a constructive debate between clubs.
"In particular, there was a focus on maintaining fair competition between clubs, in light of the substantial increase in Premier League parachute payments brought in since the introduction of FFP.
"Clubs also considered the introduction of a 'real time' approach to financial reporting instead of the current retrospective analysis of club accounts.
"The League and Championship clubs will continue developing this work in order to achieve consensus, as any changes to the current regulations will require support from 75 per cent of clubs in order to be approved.
The most rational move would be to increase the solidarity payment of £2M made to all clubs not in receipt of parachute payments - there are less of them this season (16 as opposed to 17 last season) and this number may well come down to 14 next season. An extra £2M would help clubs compete or move closer to breakeven whichever they choose and an extra £20M spent here is buttons compared to the overall FAPL deal. (17 x £2M = £34M and 14 x 4 = £56M)
That would make it interesting.
Or is that the BBC...
Anyway lets blame it on the football league.
This is an opportunity to make the game sustainable, and if it is missed, it makes the prospect of losing some clubs far more likely.
However I think the 2m suggestion is bit short sighted just throwing (more!) money into the picture. whilst it helps narrow the gap between relegated clubs & the rest, ultimately it'll just end up being spent on wages etc in most cases rather than used sensibly.
That said I don't think there is a happy solution. Global demand for PL vs national demand for the FL has created an insurmountable gap in revenue streams that I don't think can be solved - with the possible exception of the, I think, sadly inevitable breakaway European super league. A while off yet but a matter of when not if for me.
League Clubs to vote on changes to FFP
Championship clubs will vote this week on proposals to change the Football League’s Financial Fair Play rules.
A number of ammendments have been put forward by both the Football League and clubs in an attempt to improve the regulations.
The proposals need a two-thirds majority of the 24 Championship clubs to be approved. Results of the vote are expected to be announced later this week.
Any changes to the regulations would relate to the accounts for the 2014‑2015 season.
Clubs who have lost more than £8million this season will be subject to the punishments which have already been agreed — a transfer embargo starting in January 2015. However, if a club promoted to the Premier League this season have broken the limits they will be fined.
Queens Park Rangers, who face Derby in the Championship Play-off Final on Saturday, lost £65million in the 2012-13 season — their last in the Premier League. Although their figures for this season will not be known until later in the year, it would take a mammoth effort to get under the £8m limit.
Football League clubs will submit their latest financial accounts in December.
FFP rules were introduced in 2012 to try and stop clubs gambling unsustainably on getting into the Premier League.
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I'd say that this is good news from our perspective. It suggests that the rules will hold for the season just ending and this ought to be a positive for Clubs that have complied.
Also rumoured to be after McManaman from Wigan who is rated at £5m.
http://t.co/knoqpdL44S
FFP is obviously not working when a club with sub 10,000 attendances can go out and spend this sort of money fairly regularly and I'd imagine his wages would be minimum £10k per week.
Very frustrating when we're trying to do it the right way and also makes me grind my teeth when the press goes on about how brilliant it is that Bournemouth are top of the league.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/27224806
In truth if they can get promoted this season and only make another loss of £15m they would recoup all of that loss in one season in the Premier League and with parachute oaymebts can probably break even for a couple of seasons if they come down.
Ironically it is an achievement to get promoted for £30m these days. It is something that many clubs have failed to do. I don't especially like Bournemouth and I suspect their quick rise is, in part, due to other clubs trying to keep within FFP but either way it looks like they might get themselves promoted for less than the first year TV bonus which is, actually, good financial business.
That last paragraph is, probably, the most depressing!