Well I wasn't around in the 80s and being kicked out of the Valley, so Id be interested to see how fans from those times feel our current predicament compares.
Trev I was. It felt like a massive kick in the stomach. My dad, uncles etc. were Charlton born and bred and I felt like I had lost my club which I would never get back. This does not compare to those desperate times;however, I find it hard to get that angry when we lose and that excited when we win,which is worrying for me.
Agree with that totally, saved me posting that cheers pettgra.
You are welcome Hastingsaddick. I am sure my enthusiasm will increase when we get to Wembley!
I was at the Riverside and DW but not the Valley on Saturday and I feel positive about our future.
Since the take over: I saw Lennon and Poyet show us how good is our home grown talent. I saw Astrit and Reza both show that they have a lot to offer. I saw a very unconventional Goalie on who I'm not sure. I have seen the revamp of the match day commentary on the CAFC Player. Noted that there have been meetings between representatives of the fans and the new management. The new management have done all they can at present to keep the pitch playable. I have read the rumour that we bid £1m for a player and that the money gained from the recent transfers out will be reinvested in the team. I have read Seth Plum's bit on his Boardroom experience which shows that our new owners care. Wiggins has been given a new long contract.
All the above is good stuff, OK, from what I have read on here, the actual team that was on there pitch on Saturday will not survive in this league, however we have WIggins, Solly, Hamer and hopefully Cort to return and the loan window has just opened where we can bolster the side. We do not have another Championship game for 12 days and we can use the Cup match to give the available players match time together.
So AFKA look on the bright side this club has been in far worse states than it is now.
We got a game in hand over most teams and 2 games over some. 2 wins back to back will put us back in the mid pack. We are not far adrift beyond hope, but reading some of the comments on here, you would think so.
Playing poorly without confidence Sold our talisman striker No atmo at the Brum gane - even though it was vital Pitch is unplayable and won't suit quality passing / sprinting Reza looks like he is made of paper Keeper didn't seem to get the usual one-to-one coaching (does he speak English? - IDK ?) Serious deficiencies in the team (Jacko/age, Church/abilty, Sordell/attitude, Evina /ability) Way adrift on the points we need / games remaining ratio Still have 3 London derbies to play - and we don't win them under CP
Upside:
Owned by a rich guy Still in FA Cup Still in Youth Cup Have 2 good first team players on long term deals Will be able to cut loose some poorer players soon Have some excellent prospects in the youth team Have won L1 recently with over 100 points
Neutral (ish) factors:
Will lose some fan base if/when we go down again May take longer to get Cat 1 status for the academy Club / fan communication is still not as good as it could be We will know CP contract situation fairly soon Ticket prices will probably remain static
My questions about Saturday are:
Why start Sordell ? Why not start Pete as part of the new era, and sub him if he tires. Bringing him on for 5 minutes at 2 down shows an amazing lack of situation analysis.
Same with Evina, why not use Dervite and shuffle the back 4 to suit ? The guy is getting skinned by ordinary opponents in most games he plays.
Good luck to the folks going to Sheffield on Saturday, but even at 3 up we will still be biting our nails until the final whistle.
It's been much worse. We have not been relegated, we are still in there with more than a chance. We have new owners and money and new players arriving which will take time to bed in. I remember back in the sixties standing on the old huge terrace with about twenty others watching us lose game after game in the old second and third division. But the lowest point of all was the closure of the Valley and having to play at shithurst Park then Upton Park. Get real everyone and keep the belief COYAs
Don't know about others, but starting to feel worse than the other 'lean times' we have had for me.
I don't 'hate' the manager, though its not working.
I don't 'hate' the new people owning / running the club because theyve only been here two minutes, though I'm very sceptical of they're strategy.
I don't 'hate' the players, new or old, because they've effectively been tasked with gelling as a new side instantly.
So its not currently anger, just depressive exasperation as our situation seems to week by week get more and more miserable.
Am I alone feeling like this ?
It's a low time, but for me there are at least three other times that eclipse the current: leaving the Valley, the Fulham game in our relegation season and THAT decision by Graham Poll (I knew exactly what would follow from the free kick and what it would do to the rest of our season), and the inevitability from very early on in our last relegation season.
I think we have more going for us right now. It depends how you want to view things. From FlyingKiwiDK's post:
Staring relegation in the face - or, in the bottom three but more than enough games to improve and get out of it.
Lowest scorers in the league - but a refashioned midfield and new front line with a substantially improved 23 attempts on goal against Brum.
A manager who we all love but seems way out of his depth - or one who's been wrestling with unsettling ownership issues, a poor squad and an appalling pitch, for which we can say all are finally being attended to; hopefully neither too late nor insufficiently.
No Yann - but at least one new exciting striker demanding a different way of playing
A new owner with a habit for collecting football clubs - and perhaps, time will tell, able to leverage his network to our advantage
Racist chanting at our own players - all the more shocking for our enviable record in this area, but swiftly and transparently dealt with
EDIT: And I don't think I'm alone in thinking that Astrid and Reza at least are improvements on what we had before. Comedy keeper notwithstanding...
I'm still optimistic, and even for all those feeling at their lowest - well perhaps the only way is up?
Can I ask smudge, why are sceptical of there strategy, I quite like there strategy.
Because five weeks ago we just probably needed a little bit of tinkering, a whole month of a transfer window to settle the management, settle the squad, and boost it with just a couple of experienced signings. Nothing outrageous, just a boost to the squad with some proven championship level.
Instead, the management uncertainty has allowed to continue and you could see the impact that has had, two of our proven championship level players have been shipped out, and we've brought in a load of unknowns that even if they are up to it, will take a while to integrate and find their way. All this again was done at the last possible minute.
If they didn't want to back their manager, they should have replaced him.
You tell me mate what bits of that you quite like or what I've failed to take on board.
I like the way they seem to put the onus on signing young players and this doesn't just have to be youth from this country it can be from abroad as well.
But is that really what we need at this exact point in time? That's something you do early in the summer to have a good run at getting them up to speed.
We are in a relegation battle with more than half our games to be played on a muddy bobbly cowpit. A few technically skilled foreign kids just don't seem what we need at the mo.
Is give anything for an arsehole like a Karl Henry right now throwing their weight around in the middle and giving us some fighting balls. if Stephens was still next to someone like that, great. I'd have loved to have seen Yann partnering Reza up front, that to me looked a partnership that really could have worked.
What we currently have won't imo.
I came away on Saturday thinking that we were missing a leader in the middle of the park, a Kinsella style box to box midfield general. The loan window may present an opportunity to obtain just that, but - even so - we dominated possession and the chances on Saturday. If we'd finished just one, I'm sure we'd have gone on to win the game. A lot of this is stuff of the margins, not falling our way right now for sure but one game out of nowhere - like the Cardiff one last year - might yet change everything.
And despite all that, I thought Reza and Astrid were our two best players - and most of all both seemed to offer genuine commitment to the cause and clearly cared that we lost. Considerably more than Sordell, that's for sure.
I'm a lot more optimistic than the general consensus here I think. Let me try to explain;
1)We have some new loan players who look handy, more importantly, look attacking. I expect teh quality of footy to increase.
2) We have Powell as our manager, someone who cares about the club. I love Powell, probably too much, and I'd keep him even if we got relegated simply because I think he represents the club - I'd want a Dario Gradi instead of the usual 2 year pass-the-parcel of managers
3) If we get relegated, we get to win more games. I like seeing us win games, and I love the club regardless of division (although it'll suck to go back to 20 second slots on the Football League show). Moreover, the lower the division the more opportunity for our youth players to shine, who are quality
4) Our youth programme is looking faeces-hot
5) We have a player in the World Cup
6) We're still in cups, which is a nice bonus
There are some concerns, like our Defence, goals of our new owners, and Evina (the guy seriously looks more depressed than crap, I'm actually worried for him), but all-in-all I'm still living in the "thank god we're not getting double-relegated whilst still in a Premiership mentality" mind-frame.
I will chip in for what it's worth about some stuff I experienced today when finding myself in the boardroom after the match.
I also had a bit of a chat to Roland's two outriders Didier and Charles/Carlos. They said they work within Roland's network, and were pretty sussed it seemed to me about football, and also about football as a business. They weren't 'suits' by the way.
They were also well versed, and very respectful, regarding all of Roland's stable of clubs, and they clearly acknowledged that Charlton in the premier league would put them above Standard Liege even if Standard were in in the Champions League. Certainly in terms of money.
Didier and Charles also like the idea of a pre season tournament involving Roland's stable of clubs, especially because the managers can get together, share best practice, get to know each others players, the players could also be weighed up for possible best deployment. All in a positive way because the network would not be with rivals but collaborators in football.
I report all this with no certainty of the exact role of Didier and Charles, but they too struck me as good guys and not princes of darkness...not at all. They were not in the least bit negative about Chris Powell either.
I don't suppose Didier and Charles were coaches by any chance ?
I think the long slide down the divisions presided over by Pardew and Parkinson felt worse. Every season finishing lower than the season before, with no sign of it ever ending.
If we do end up getting relegated I am going to find it hard to take (as will a lot of other people, I guess).
We got a game in hand over most teams and 2 games over some. 2 wins back to back will put us back in the mid pack. We are not far adrift beyond hope, but reading some of the comments on here, you would think so.
I know what you are saying but two of those are against Leicester and QPR
I dont feel as down as when Pardew picked about 103 different players and still couldnt get it right, however, I thinks NorthStandSteve hit the nail on the head with his comments regarding CP. I so want him to do well, but I suspect we have already seen his best.
Ok no one has died, it would appear that financially we are in a good place and I will still have my ST even if we are competing in the Conference South (which we won't).
For what it's worth I see we are at the start of an exciting journey which fills me with great optimism!
What depresses me is I know we are good enough to stay up but cp is killing our chances every game by playing too many players out of position. Sometimes forced and can't be helped but on most occasions it can be avoided. The fact that Jackson gets the nod every game despite that meaning getting overrun every game and shuffling other and better players around to accomadate him, which makes them less effective is slowly sending us back to league 1. Don't even feel angry like when Pardew was in charge just annoyed that the same mistakes are happening over and over again.
I will chip in for what it's worth about some stuff I experienced today when finding myself in the boardroom after the match.
I made a point of speaking to Katrien, and on a personal level I found her to be every bit as positive and genuine in person as she is on the 'meet the board' video. One of the easiest to like people you could hope to meet, and also someone on the ball, alert, a great listener and pretty aware. A very impressive person.
Anyway she told me that the new owners are here for the long term, they like and respect Chris Powell, personally, and as the manager, and they want to support him, and they recognise that there are unique challenges due to the present circumstances. Of course I didn't ask anything about contracts, even if I wanted to it would've seemed impolite and inappropriate, but there was no sense of hesitation in her response about wanting to help Chris to get things going.
You can judge for yourself as to how long that may last, but in the wake of the loss today I got no sense of exasperation. You may judge for yourself as to whether the kind of 'support' offered so far is right or wrong, but I got no sense of conspiracy or lack of aspiration to succeed.
Katrien was beguiled in an excited way about her job, working at Charlton, the FA Cup (she will be at Sheffield), and the experiences she is having in this new role. She had the good humour to say that yes she realises we also need Belgium beer, chocolates and waffles, and has enjoyed the way we are coming to terms with the Belgium aspect of things. We talked about other stuff as well, and I for one found I liked her enormously.
I also had a bit of a chat to Roland's two outriders Didier and Charles/Carlos. They said they work within Roland's network, and were pretty sussed it seemed to me about football, and also about football as a business. They weren't 'suits' by the way.
I am grateful to popicon who straight out asked them where Charlton stand in Roland's group of clubs. They said second...to Standard Liege.
However.
They were also well versed, and very respectful, regarding all of Roland's stable of clubs, and they clearly acknowledged that Charlton in the premier league would put them above Standard Liege even if Standard were in in the Champions League. Certainly in terms of money. They seemed to indicate that in Belgium, with less spread of clubs, and only really three decent ones, that things are ultimately weaker there in the business of football, stronger in the English league. They had knowledge, for example the way big clubs can nick good young players at 16 from other clubs, they were well aware of it(perhaps its European wide I don't know), and they felt that it was wrong and ought to change. They were interested in some snippets of the History of Charlton I told them about, particularly the Valley Party times (incidentally Katrien wanted more visual displays regarding Charlton's history all over the place when I was suggesting she got some Magritte's on show!).
Didier and Charles also like the idea of a pre season tournament involving Roland's stable of clubs, especially because the managers can get together, share best practice, get to know each others players, the players could also be weighed up for possible best deployment. All in a positive way because the network would not be with rivals but collaborators in football.
I report all this with no certainty of the exact role of Didier and Charles, but they too struck me as good guys and not princes of darkness...not at all. They were not in the least bit negative about Chris Powell either.
In terms of this thread, and what we make of where we are, well mine is only one viewpoint, and only one bit of reportage. For me I don't believe we are in the hands of some monster. Yes we are in a progressive state, where many on Charlton Life who have weighed up the ins and outs of the new model of football Roland is creating, are probably pretty accurate in their speculation. I believe we are in the hands of people who want to create something, don't want to lose shedloads of money doing it, and believe they are nurturing a vision to succeed.
The more breadth and depth our new people have about everything Charlton past and present the better it will be, and they seemed to be very receptive all round.
It is up to each one of us to decide if we like where we are headed, but compared to the last regime I feel a whole lot more positive and hopeful.
This is only my take on things as best as I can remember, it is 'fact' only in as much as I feel I have reported my experience accurately.
Some of you may be interested as to why I quote my own quote from after the Birmingham City game.
I will explain all.
When I met the two Belgian guys in the boardroom I didn't enquire very deeply into their role. You can see above what I posted at the time. The only things I failed to mention was that they told me they had driven over from Ghent that day, and were driving back that night and expected to be in Ghent about 2am Belgium time. Katrien was in frequent conversation with these guys, and as one of the last group to leave that evening, we left the boardroom with only Katrien and the two Belgian guys there, still conversing. I haven't thought much more about that until this evening when it has dawned on me, and I have dug out his pictures on the internet, that the guy I called Charles/Carlos (there was a tiny confusion with the name, he helped me a bit) is in fact Karel Fraeye. My confusion over his name was because he gave me the English version of his name. Karel Fraye was in the boardroom after the Birmingham City game with the other gentleman who I am confident was called Didier. My impression is as I reported above at the time. seriouslyred was there, as was popicon and others, they may remember meeting and chatting to these guys too. Now if Karel Fraeye is now assisting Jose Riga, and had been over to watch the Birmingham game previously I am not sure what to make of it. Was something happening as long ago as that? What is certain is that Karel Fraeye had prior knowledge about Charlton even if Jose Riga didn't know us from Adam four days ago. Karel Fraeye is now working for Charlton alongside Jose Riga I believe. I am certain that I have reported things accurately and to the best of my knowledge and memory.
Bump - that Charles fella Seth and I met at the Birmingham game a month back would be one Karel Fraeye...I recall having a chat about Evina (who had a mare) and he had noted that. I made a point of taking them to the trophy cabinet and showed them the play off final trophy...explaining how the Valley was half built and completely full off the back of the Premier League. I expect Karel has been analysing CAFC games and players for a while - let's see if he can make a difference now he has the influence.
I can also add that when popicon asked Karel and Didier about precedent in Roland's network it was Karel who said it was Standard Liege. Didier was the quieter of the two, but friendly and very pleasant, Karel was more curious. he asked about the attendance that day for example. He offered his opinion that beyond about three or four clubs in Belgium there was nothing much else. He was quite assertive and respectful about all the network clubs, indeed when seriouslyred was talking about clubs in the network published in the Trust News, Katrien and Karel pointed out to him that St Truden shouldn't have been included.
No, there is so much wrong and so little right at the minute that it is difficult to be positive.
The only way is up - just accept that if CP had won more games and played better football, he'd still be in a job
Totally incorrect.
Why? I'd love to know...I do accept that the new owner would eventually want his own man, though.
He needs to have his manager (or should I say coach) as someone he knows and trusts to accept his decisions regarding transfers in and out, Chris Powell's job as he knew it would not be suited to that. RD deliberately gave Powell a contract that was not suited for Powell to sign, there is NO question Powell would have signed the contract had everything been OK with it. RD was trying to get Powell to walk, he was pushing him out the door with making it look to us like he cares. This was in the pipeline from the off, it was totally off the field, if we were safe in the Championship, the same would have occurred unfortunately
Playing poorly without confidence Sold our talisman striker No atmo at the Brum gane - even though it was vital Pitch is unplayable and won't suit quality passing / sprinting Reza looks like he is made of paper Keeper didn't seem to get the usual one-to-one coaching (does he speak English? - IDK ?) Serious deficiencies in the team (Jacko/age, Church/abilty, Sordell/attitude, Evina /ability) Way adrift on the points we need / games remaining ratio Still have 3 London derbies to play - and we don't win them under CP
Upside:
Owned by a rich guy Still in FA Cup Still in Youth Cup Have 2 good first team players on long term deals Will be able to cut loose some poorer players soon Have some excellent prospects in the youth team Have won L1 recently with over 100 points
Neutral (ish) factors:
Will lose some fan base if/when we go down again May take longer to get Cat 1 status for the academy Club / fan communication is still not as good as it could be We will know CP contract situation fairly soon Ticket prices will probably remain static
My questions about Saturday are:
Why start Sordell ? Why not start Pete as part of the new era, and sub him if he tires. Bringing him on for 5 minutes at 2 down shows an amazing lack of situation analysis.
Same with Evina, why not use Dervite and shuffle the back 4 to suit ? The guy is getting skinned by ordinary opponents in most games he plays.
Good luck to the folks going to Sheffield on Saturday, but even at 3 up we will still be biting our nails until the final whistle.
Owned by a rich guy who is clearly more worried about SL.
Comments
Since the take over:
I saw Lennon and Poyet show us how good is our home grown talent.
I saw Astrit and Reza both show that they have a lot to offer.
I saw a very unconventional Goalie on who I'm not sure.
I have seen the revamp of the match day commentary on the CAFC Player.
Noted that there have been meetings between representatives of the fans and the new management.
The new management have done all they can at present to keep the pitch playable.
I have read the rumour that we bid £1m for a player and that the money gained from the recent transfers out will be reinvested in the team.
I have read Seth Plum's bit on his Boardroom experience which shows that our new owners care.
Wiggins has been given a new long contract.
All the above is good stuff, OK, from what I have read on here, the actual team that was on there pitch on Saturday will not survive in this league, however we have WIggins, Solly, Hamer and hopefully Cort to return and the loan window has just opened where we can bolster the side. We do not have another Championship game for 12 days and we can use the Cup match to give the available players match time together.
So AFKA look on the bright side this club has been in far worse states than it is now.
Playing poorly without confidence
Sold our talisman striker
No atmo at the Brum gane - even though it was vital
Pitch is unplayable and won't suit quality passing / sprinting
Reza looks like he is made of paper
Keeper didn't seem to get the usual one-to-one coaching (does he speak English? - IDK ?)
Serious deficiencies in the team (Jacko/age, Church/abilty, Sordell/attitude, Evina /ability)
Way adrift on the points we need / games remaining ratio
Still have 3 London derbies to play - and we don't win them under CP
Upside:
Owned by a rich guy
Still in FA Cup
Still in Youth Cup
Have 2 good first team players on long term deals
Will be able to cut loose some poorer players soon
Have some excellent prospects in the youth team
Have won L1 recently with over 100 points
Neutral (ish) factors:
Will lose some fan base if/when we go down again
May take longer to get Cat 1 status for the academy
Club / fan communication is still not as good as it could be
We will know CP contract situation fairly soon
Ticket prices will probably remain static
My questions about Saturday are:
Why start Sordell ? Why not start Pete as part of the new era, and sub him if he tires. Bringing him on for 5 minutes at 2 down shows an amazing lack of situation analysis.
Same with Evina, why not use Dervite and shuffle the back 4 to suit ? The guy is getting skinned by ordinary opponents in most games he plays.
Good luck to the folks going to Sheffield on Saturday, but even at 3 up we will still be biting our nails until the final whistle.
We have new owners and money and new players arriving which will take time to bed in.
I remember back in the sixties standing on the old huge terrace with about twenty others watching us lose game after game in the old second and third division.
But the lowest point of all was the closure of the Valley and having to play at shithurst Park then Upton Park.
Get real everyone and keep the belief
COYAs
I think we have more going for us right now. It depends how you want to view things. From FlyingKiwiDK's post:
- Staring relegation in the face - or, in the bottom three but more than enough games to improve and get out of it.
- Lowest scorers in the league - but a refashioned midfield and new front line with a substantially improved 23 attempts on goal against Brum.
- A manager who we all love but seems way out of his depth - or one who's been wrestling with unsettling ownership issues, a poor squad and an appalling pitch, for which we can say all are finally being attended to; hopefully neither too late nor insufficiently.
- No Yann - but at least one new exciting striker demanding a different way of playing
- A new owner with a habit for collecting football clubs - and perhaps, time will tell, able to leverage his network to our advantage
- Racist chanting at our own players - all the more shocking for our enviable record in this area, but swiftly and transparently dealt with
EDIT: And I don't think I'm alone in thinking that Astrid and Reza at least are improvements on what we had before. Comedy keeper notwithstanding...I'm still optimistic, and even for all those feeling at their lowest - well perhaps the only way is up?
And despite all that, I thought Reza and Astrid were our two best players - and most of all both seemed to offer genuine commitment to the cause and clearly cared that we lost. Considerably more than Sordell, that's for sure.
1)We have some new loan players who look handy, more importantly, look attacking. I expect teh quality of footy to increase.
2) We have Powell as our manager, someone who cares about the club. I love Powell, probably too much, and I'd keep him even if we got relegated simply because I think he represents the club - I'd want a Dario Gradi instead of the usual 2 year pass-the-parcel of managers
3) If we get relegated, we get to win more games. I like seeing us win games, and I love the club regardless of division (although it'll suck to go back to 20 second slots on the Football League show). Moreover, the lower the division the more opportunity for our youth players to shine, who are quality
4) Our youth programme is looking faeces-hot
5) We have a player in the World Cup
6) We're still in cups, which is a nice bonus
There are some concerns, like our Defence, goals of our new owners, and Evina (the guy seriously looks more depressed than crap, I'm actually worried for him), but all-in-all I'm still living in the "thank god we're not getting double-relegated whilst still in a Premiership mentality" mind-frame.
If we do end up getting relegated I am going to find it hard to take (as will a lot of other people, I guess).
For what it's worth I see we are at the start of an exciting journey which fills me with great optimism!
We're in the second tier in the greatest football structure in the world and have every chance of staying up
I will explain all.
When I met the two Belgian guys in the boardroom I didn't enquire very deeply into their role. You can see above what I posted at the time. The only things I failed to mention was that they told me they had driven over from Ghent that day, and were driving back that night and expected to be in Ghent about 2am Belgium time. Katrien was in frequent conversation with these guys, and as one of the last group to leave that evening, we left the boardroom with only Katrien and the two Belgian guys there, still conversing.
I haven't thought much more about that until this evening when it has dawned on me, and I have dug out his pictures on the internet, that the guy I called Charles/Carlos (there was a tiny confusion with the name, he helped me a bit) is in fact Karel Fraeye. My confusion over his name was because he gave me the English version of his name. Karel Fraye was in the boardroom after the Birmingham City game with the other gentleman who I am confident was called Didier.
My impression is as I reported above at the time. seriouslyred was there, as was popicon and others, they may remember meeting and chatting to these guys too.
Now if Karel Fraeye is now assisting Jose Riga, and had been over to watch the Birmingham game previously I am not sure what to make of it.
Was something happening as long ago as that?
What is certain is that Karel Fraeye had prior knowledge about Charlton even if Jose Riga didn't know us from Adam four days ago. Karel Fraeye is now working for Charlton alongside Jose Riga I believe.
I am certain that I have reported things accurately and to the best of my knowledge and memory.
I made a point of taking them to the trophy cabinet and showed them the play off final trophy...explaining how the Valley was half built and completely full off the back of the Premier League.
I expect Karel has been analysing CAFC games and players for a while - let's see if he can make a difference now he has the influence.