I mentioned the developments at FCC last week (on the meeting thread). Go to Jena's website and open the section Fans - Google will give you an adequate translation. If Jena can have a properly constituted Advisory Council surely, if it's a success, the Owner must roll it out across the Network.
I mentioned the developments at FCC last week (on the meeting thread). Go to Jena's website and open the section Fans - Google will give you an adequate translation. If Jena can have a properly constituted Advisory Council surely, if it's a success, the Owner must roll it out across the Network.
I haven't properly examined this yet, and am hoping to establish a personal contact at CZJ ( as you and I have discussed) but I think the success has something to do with German rules on ownership, so their success might be difficult to replicate elsewhere. The most baffling thing remains why he bought it at all.
Yes, indeed - what are the common factors which attracted the Owner to the respective clubs, three of them in an extraordinary blitz at end-2013? Maybe the German model inclines Jena towards the fans, overseen by an enthusiastic or at least benign DFB, maybe FCC's fan-base has withered to a more manageable level, maybe 20% of Jena's population being students minds the Owner to show a bit of caution .... intriguing.
German clubs, bar two exceptions (Bayer Leverkusen & Wolfsburg) have the 50+1 rule. Supporters Direct give a good explanation, but there are a number of rules on top of that ownership requirement that really make for a great model for football.
Someone broke into The Valley (home of Charlton) and did this in the centre circle! #SextraTime who's that woman - not katrien
We loaned the guy from you, but he wasnt fit enough for the english game, poor movement and struggled with the tempo so we're sending him back to Liege
Someone broke into The Valley (home of Charlton) and did this in the centre circle! #SextraTime who's that woman - not katrien
We loaned the guy from you, but he wasnt fit enough for the english game, poor movement and struggled with the tempo so we're sending him back to Liege
he was happy and having a great time @charlton - Now he has pretty Memories
Standard Liege lost 1-0 this evening, but I think they're safely into the play-offs now, because Charleroi also lost and can't catch them, with 1 game to go. (That's the play-offs for the league title and Champions League places.) At the moment, Standard are 5th, 8 pts behind Bruges and would start the 10-game play-offs with a 4 pt deficit to Bruges.
(It was also Riga's first defeat since his return to Standard.)
Standard Liege lost 1-0 this evening, but I think they're safely into the play-offs now, because Charleroi also lost and can't catch them, with 1 game to go. (That's the play-offs for the league title and Champions League places.) At the moment, Standard are 5th, 8 pts behind Bruges and would start the 10-game play-offs with a 4 pt deficit to Bruges.
(It was also Riga's first defeat since his return to Standard.)
The Belgium set up is a bit mental. It does not matter so much about the first part of the season, halving the points doesn't make any sense. It did Liege no favours last season, I guess though, it has helped them this season.
Standard Liege lost 1-0 this evening, but I think they're safely into the play-offs now, because Charleroi also lost and can't catch them, with 1 game to go. (That's the play-offs for the league title and Champions League places.) At the moment, Standard are 5th, 8 pts behind Bruges and would start the 10-game play-offs with a 4 pt deficit to Bruges.
(It was also Riga's first defeat since his return to Standard.)
The Belgium set up is a bit mental. It does not matter so much about the first part of the season, halving the points doesn't make any sense. It did Liege no favours last season, I guess though, it has helped them this season.
It's highly contrived, but clearly designed to give all 6 teams something to play for, while rewarding the top team(s). They obviously don't want to expand from a 16-team top flight. I can see various slightly less contrived alternatives to make up a 40-ish game season, but I suppose they have already been rejected in Belgium. I'm sure you know that some fans, like the Standard Ultras, seem to detest their current play-off system.
No, not aware of that @MountsfieldPark. The whole set up would appear to skew the league. A different strategy probably likely, such as not overusing and resting players in the earlier part of the season.
No, not aware of that @MountsfieldPark. The whole set up would appear to skew the league. A different strategy probably likely, such as not overusing and resting players in the earlier part of the season.
One of the Belgian fans did say on here that the big Belgian clubs rotate their players in a more complex way than our PL clubs do. It's not just play your strongest side in the PL and some of the squad players in the cups. One result is that it probably gives out-of-favour players like Bulot and Buyens more games per season.
I suppose they don't want to go along the same path as Scotland, where they fiddle with the league structure, etc, every couple of years or so and now have mini-leagues of 10 or 12 playing each other 3 or 4 times. I think I recall a time when Scotland just had two big leagues of about 20 teams, Division 1 and 2. That led to a large number of one-sided games, especially when the Old Firm were in town, but nobody seemed to care.
No, not aware of that @MountsfieldPark. The whole set up would appear to skew the league. A different strategy probably likely, such as not overusing and resting players in the earlier part of the season.
One of the Belgian fans did say on here that the big Belgian clubs rotate their players in a more complex way than our PL clubs do. It's not just play your strongest side in the PL and some of the squad players in the cups. One result is that it probably gives out-of-favour players like Bulot and Buyens more games per season.
I suppose they don't want to go along the same path as Scotland, where they fiddle with the league structure, etc, every couple of years or so and now have mini-leagues of 10 or 12 playing each other 3 or 4 times. I think I recall a time when Scotland just had two big leagues of about 20 teams, Division 1 and 2. That led to a large number of one-sided games, especially when the Old Firm were in town, but nobody seemed to care.
At least when Scotland had two big leagues the increased gates from the old firms benefited the smaller clubs. The Scottish league set up always seems a bit uncompetitive. Whatever the format though, the old firm clubs have dominated. Rangers will probably get back to that at some point. Difficult to say how best to change that. Not sure that devaluing the first half of the season points wise is a good way to go.
I can undestand why Duchatelet wanted to combine the Belgium and Dutch leagues as that would make for a strong league. Never going to happen though given the french / flemish antagonisms that exist.
The Belgium league set up points wise explains why Duchatelet would made mass changes at Liege early season. That rhythm IMO has an impact on Charlton as well, giving the network attention and the timing of the player moves.
I think we're quite lucky in this country that we still have a fairly gradual, competitive pyramid all the way from the biggest clubs down to the non-league. It's something we take for granted and there's probably nothing quite like it in any sport anywhere else in the world. Whether they understand it or not and for better or worse, it's one of the things that makes English football attractive to foreign investors.
I imagine a major objection to a combined Dutch-Belgian league is you would expect to lose Champions League/Europa Cup places.
It's a weird challenge Standard face every season. Last year, they were top in the regular season, came second after the play-offs and got a Champions League qualifying place. Then they played a lot of games in late July - August 2014, got off to a terrible start, and their season was in complete disarray by the end of September, out of the CL and with a mountain to climb in the 30-game JPL regular season. That led to Luzon's early removal. I still don't fully understand why the fans blamed him for the disaster, when the squad had been significantly weakened by sales over the previous 18 months. If Defke reads this, I expect he'll explain.
I will try to explain it it all started with coach Rednic, he has our team again made a fighter squad. After his resignation, which no one thought possible, we got Luzon. never heard of it so, why not. then came reports made by luzon manager. are trying to interfere in the administration. Luzon got a decent team with which he could start, the team that has finished steaming by Rednic. To December, it was good, then you began quietly to see the decay. what we blame him is that he put on top of the league above all - EL and cup. the impossible preparation and players, thousands of supporters who were along on displacement in EL disappointed. as a deep descent Must admit, after December was the media and the refs who began to destabilize standard. we always had to be champion. then there followed the transfers and now we could see what he really had in mind, for now he had to build a team. were almost end the end of the colom with little or no football. OK, the promised transfers left out.
So my conclusion.
the big mistakes were made by RD and Luzon. after Luzon was T2 Vuko new coach - he began to succeed in order to get together a team that wanted to play but that is my opinion and perhaps many will be against what I say now.
in the beginning, I believed in it that RD was our savior, after a while the credibility of him began to bother me, and now, like many others, we hate him. he draws the soul out of standard and divisive among the supporters. Standard is a very large family where no racism, where Flemings and Walloons are best friends. that you see nowhere, only at Sclessin. winning or losing does not bother us, we want a team that plays, fights and make their shirts wet .. it does not bother us that we place 1 or 7. it bothers us that there is no soul more
Thanks, Defke. Can I get this clear -are you saying Luzon after Dec 2013 placed too much priority on the JPL position and let the EL and Belgian cup results go bad? We have a strange set of priorities as Charlton fans. We've been so bad at cups for decades now that we tend to expect bitter disappointment in the cups and just hope to make progress in the league. In fact, it's a general English thing now that the club priority is almost always league position first and cups come second.
You are also saying Luzon did not succeed at rebuilding the team last summer, after the players that were sold.
Do you think Luzon has 100% trust from RD, where perhaps Bob Peeters did not?
The treatment of Vuko looks harsh, when you look at JPL results. I wondered if perhaps it was the bad period before Christmas when results weren't so good and you fell out of the EL and Belgian Cup that led to the decision to replace him.
Thanks, Defke. Can I get this clear -are you saying Luzon after Dec 2013 placed too much priority on the JPL position and let the EL and Belgian cup results go bad? We have a strange set of priorities as Charlton fans. We've been so bad at cups for decades now that we tend to expect bitter disappointment in the cups and just hope to make progress in the league. In fact, it's a general English thing now that the club priority is almost always league position first and cups come second.
You are also saying Luzon did not succeed at rebuilding the team last summer, after the players that were sold.
Do you think Luzon has 100% trust from RD, where perhaps Bob Peeters did not?
The treatment of Vuko looks harsh, when you look at JPL results. I wondered if perhaps it was the bad period before Christmas when results weren't so good and you fell out of the EL and Belgian Cup that led to the decision to replace him.
What's the feeling about the play-offs?
luzon can not do wrong in the eyes of RD. other trainers do not get as much credit as he. Rd believes in Luzon that he's one of the best trainers, that's not so, then loses RD and that he does not want. RD, will always have it right
as regards the PO blow up that, just to get more money from supporters and just has no added value in the Belgian football.
a team that only just got into the PO can, so to speak, become champion. is absurd. a team that plays a POII wins and final test match and beat a team that plays in the POI can play european. even more absurd.
all top teams look the cat jumps up to December only then start playing them because they know that everything starts only after January
give me just one calendar and the winner is champion
if Bob had the players who has luzon now. you were much further. I love bob his strategy. Bob has a real fighter mentality. I saw how some teams took bob out of the valley and live again in the squad spent, I only say this, HAT AF
Thanks, Defke. Can I get this clear -are you saying Luzon after Dec 2013 placed too much priority on the JPL position and let the EL and Belgian cup results go bad? We have a strange set of priorities as Charlton fans. We've been so bad at cups for decades now that we tend to expect bitter disappointment in the cups and just hope to make progress in the league. In fact, it's a general English thing now that the club priority is almost always league position first and cups come second.
You are also saying Luzon did not succeed at rebuilding the team last summer, after the players that were sold.
Do you think Luzon has 100% trust from RD, where perhaps Bob Peeters did not?
The treatment of Vuko looks harsh, when you look at JPL results. I wondered if perhaps it was the bad period before Christmas when results weren't so good and you fell out of the EL and Belgian Cup that led to the decision to replace him.
What's the feeling about the play-offs?
luzon can not do wrong in the eyes of RD. other trainers do not get as much credit as he. Rd believes in Luzon that he's one of the best trainers, that's not so, then loses RD and that he does not want. RD, will always have it right
as regards the PO blow up that, just to get more money from supporters and just has no added value in the Belgian football.
a team that only just got into the PO can, so to speak, become champion. is absurd. a team that plays a POII wins and final test match and beat a team that plays in the POI can play european. even more absurd.
all top teams look the cat jumps up to December only then start playing them because they know that everything starts only after January
give me just one calendar and the winner is champion
So what would you have - a 30 game season, or an expanded JPL with maybe 18 or 20 teams, or some other format, perhaps a smaller league, but RSL play everyone else 3 or 4 times?
if Bob had the players who has luzon now. you were much further. I love bob his strategy. Bob has a real fighter mentality. I saw how some teams took bob out of the valley and live again in the squad spent, I only say this, HAT AF
I think the difference is defke, that BP couldn't handle the players we have now. Luzon is not afraid to rest players, important players, and so it requires great man-management. Reports from our training ground and staff at The Valley is that Prefers was a bit of an arsehole. Players like Watt, Johnson, Eagles wouldn't last 5 minutes with him. Luzon it seems allows the players to express themselves during games, he supports them in the media and at the moment our team morale seems like it's the best it's been for a while. Sign of a good head coach.
I've stopped taking to much notice of what fans of other clubs say about players. Most of it turns out to be bollocks. I'm taking the same approach about coaches, managers and possibly owners as well for the time being.
'give me just one calendar and the winner is champion' I shall muse on the meaning of that sentence for the rest of the evening.
sorry for my english - i'll do my best
@defke you are doing fine, don't worry. Your English is a million times better than 99.8 percent of Charlton Life posters Flemish/Dutch/French. The sense of what you say carries through and that is the important thing.
'give me just one calendar and the winner is champion' I shall muse on the meaning of that sentence for the rest of the evening.
sorry for my english - i'll do my best
@defke you are doing fine, don't worry. Your English is a million times better than 99.8 percent of Charlton Life posters Flemish/Dutch/French. The sense of what you say carries through and that is the important thing.
mais je parle aussi francais - c'est comme vous voulez - mais je ne parle pas allemand
Standard (still with Thuram in goal) played their first play-off game on Easter Monday afternoon, losing 2-1 away to Club Brugge, who were seeded the top team. According to Soccerway, Standard had 2 shots on target to Brugge's dismal 1, but Brugge scored 2 penalties to come from behind. The play-off table looks like this so far:
Meanwhile, Sint Truiden have gone into a tailspin. From a position of being 10 pts clear, they have picked up only two points from their last 3 games. In a league where there is only 1 auto promotion place, they are now only 3 pts clear of 2nd placed Lommel Utd, who have won their last 6. There are 3 games to go. It could go down to the last game of the season, which happens to be STVV -v- Lommel Utd. Failure to secure auto promotion would mean a place in the play-offs.
Recently, there was some doubt about whether STVV will be granted a JPL licence this time around, should they get promoted (because of RD's thinly disguised dual control), but the issue appears to be still undecided. Nevertheless, revolution is in the air in Belgian football: insideworldfootball.com/world-football/europe/16602-belgian-plan-to-cut-pro-club-numbers-sparks-fury-from-lower-leagues This news piece doesn't say as much, but I assume STVV would be one of the 24 remaining professional clubs, promoted or not. Would this reform create more pressure on RD to divest himself properly of either Standard or STVV?
--- Play-Off 1 fixtures (Kick-off times in Belgium, 1 hour ahead of BST):
Round 1 (05/04/2015 - 06/04/2015) AA Gent - KV Kortrijk (Sunday 20:00) Club Brugge - Standard (Monday 14:30) Anderlecht - Charleroi (Monday 18:00)
Round 2 (11/04/2015 - 12/04/2015) KV Kortrijk - Club Brugge (Saturday 18:00) Charleroi - AA Gent (Saturday 20:30) Standard - Anderlecht (Sunday 18:00)
Round 3 (17/04/2015 - 19/04/2015) Standard - AA Gent (Friday 20:30) Club Brugge - Anderlecht (Sunday 18:00) KV Kortrijk - Charleroi (Sunday 20:30)
Round 4 (25/04/2015 - 26/04/2015) Charleroi - Standard (Saturday 18:00) Anderlecht - KV Kortrijk (Saturday 20:30) AA Gent - Club Brugge (Sunday 18:00)
Round 5 (28/04/2015 - 30/04/2015) KV Kortrijk - Standard (Tuesday 20:30) Club Brugge - Charleroi (Wednesday 20:30) AA Gent - Anderlecht (Thursday 20:30)
Round 6 (02/05/2015 - 03/05/2015) Standard - Club Brugge (Saturday 18:00) Kortrijk - AA Gent (Sunday 14:30) Charleroi - Anderlecht (Sunday 18:00)
Round 7 (08/05/2015 - 10/05/2015) AA Gent - Charleroi (Friday 20:30) Anderlecht - Club Brugge (Sunday 14:30) Standard - Kortrijk (Sunday 18:00)
Round 8 (17/05/2015) Club Brugge - AA Gent (Sunday 14:30) Anderlecht - Standard (Sunday 18:00) Charleroi - KV Kortrijk (Sunday 20:30)
Round 9 (21/05/2015) Charleroi - Club Brugge (Thursday 20:30) AA Gent - Standard (Thursday 20:30) KV Kortrijk - Anderlecht (Thursday 20:30)
Round 10 (24/05/2015) Club Brugge - KV Kortrijk (Sunday 14:30) Anderlecht - AA Gent (Sunday 14:30) Standard - Charleroi (Sunday 14:30)
Comments
I mentioned the developments at FCC last week (on the meeting thread). Go to Jena's website and open the section Fans - Google will give you an adequate translation. If Jena can have a properly constituted Advisory Council surely, if it's a success, the Owner must roll it out across the Network.
Yes, indeed - what are the common factors which attracted the Owner to the respective clubs, three of them in an extraordinary blitz at end-2013? Maybe the German model inclines Jena towards the fans, overseen by an enthusiastic or at least benign DFB, maybe FCC's fan-base has withered to a more manageable level, maybe 20% of Jena's population being students minds the Owner to show a bit of caution .... intriguing.
http://www.supporters-direct.org/news-article/football-finance-whats-the-big-deal-with-german-football
Someone broke into The Valley (home of Charlton) and did this in the centre circle! #SextraTime
who's that woman - not katrien
(It was also Riga's first defeat since his return to Standard.)
I suppose they don't want to go along the same path as Scotland, where they fiddle with the league structure, etc, every couple of years or so and now have mini-leagues of 10 or 12 playing each other 3 or 4 times. I think I recall a time when Scotland just had two big leagues of about 20 teams, Division 1 and 2. That led to a large number of one-sided games, especially when the Old Firm were in town, but nobody seemed to care.
I can undestand why Duchatelet wanted to combine the Belgium and Dutch leagues as that would make for a strong league. Never going to happen though given the french / flemish antagonisms that exist.
The Belgium league set up points wise explains why Duchatelet would made mass changes at Liege early season. That rhythm IMO has an impact on Charlton as well, giving the network attention and the timing of the player moves.
I imagine a major objection to a combined Dutch-Belgian league is you would expect to lose Champions League/Europa Cup places.
It's a weird challenge Standard face every season. Last year, they were top in the regular season, came second after the play-offs and got a Champions League qualifying place. Then they played a lot of games in late July - August 2014, got off to a terrible start, and their season was in complete disarray by the end of September, out of the CL and with a mountain to climb in the 30-game JPL regular season. That led to Luzon's early removal. I still don't fully understand why the fans blamed him for the disaster, when the squad had been significantly weakened by sales over the previous 18 months. If Defke reads this, I expect he'll explain.
it all started with coach Rednic, he has our team again made a fighter squad. After his resignation, which no one thought possible, we got Luzon.
never heard of it so, why not. then came reports made by luzon manager. are trying to interfere in the administration. Luzon got a decent team with which he could start, the team that has finished steaming by Rednic.
To December, it was good, then you began quietly to see the decay. what we blame him is that he put on top of the league above all - EL and cup. the impossible preparation and players, thousands of supporters who were along on displacement in EL disappointed. as a deep descent
Must admit, after December was the media and the refs who began to destabilize standard. we always had to be champion.
then there followed the transfers and now we could see what he really had in mind, for now he had to build a team. were almost end the end of the colom with little or no football. OK, the promised transfers left out.
So my conclusion.
the big mistakes were made by RD and Luzon.
after Luzon was T2 Vuko new coach - he began to succeed in order to get together a team that wanted to play
but that is my opinion and perhaps many will be against what I say now.
in the beginning, I believed in it that RD was our savior, after a while the credibility of him began to bother me, and now, like many others, we hate him. he draws the soul out of standard and divisive among the supporters.
Standard is a very large family where no racism, where Flemings and Walloons are best friends. that you see nowhere, only at Sclessin.
winning or losing does not bother us, we want a team that plays, fights and make their shirts wet .. it does not bother us that we place 1 or 7. it bothers us that there is no soul more
You are also saying Luzon did not succeed at rebuilding the team last summer, after the players that were sold.
Do you think Luzon has 100% trust from RD, where perhaps Bob Peeters did not?
The treatment of Vuko looks harsh, when you look at JPL results. I wondered if perhaps it was the bad period before Christmas when results weren't so good and you fell out of the EL and Belgian Cup that led to the decision to replace him.
What's the feeling about the play-offs?
as regards the PO
blow up that, just to get more money from supporters and just has no added value in the Belgian football.
a team that only just got into the PO can, so to speak, become champion. is absurd.
a team that plays a POII wins and final test match and beat a team that plays in the POI can play european. even more absurd.
all top teams look the cat jumps up to December only then start playing them because they know that everything starts only after January
give me just one calendar and the winner is champion
I love bob his strategy. Bob has a real fighter mentality.
I saw how some teams took bob out of the valley and live again in the squad spent, I only say this, HAT AF
Luzon it seems allows the players to express themselves during games, he supports them in the media and at the moment our team morale seems like it's the best it's been for a while. Sign of a good head coach.
I do appreciate the effort though Defke.
'give me just one calendar and the winner is champion'
I shall muse on the meaning of that sentence for the rest of the evening.
1 Club Brugge......... 1 +1 34pts
2 Gent.................... 1 +2 32
3 Anderlecht........... 1 +1 32
4 Standard Liege..... 1 -1 27
5 Kortrijk................ 1 -2 26
6 Sporting Charleroi 1 -1 25
Meanwhile, Sint Truiden have gone into a tailspin. From a position of being 10 pts clear, they have picked up only two points from their last 3 games. In a league where there is only 1 auto promotion place, they are now only 3 pts clear of 2nd placed Lommel Utd, who have won their last 6. There are 3 games to go. It could go down to the last game of the season, which happens to be STVV -v- Lommel Utd. Failure to secure auto promotion would mean a place in the play-offs.
Recently, there was some doubt about whether STVV will be granted a JPL licence this time around, should they get promoted (because of RD's thinly disguised dual control), but the issue appears to be still undecided. Nevertheless, revolution is in the air in Belgian football: insideworldfootball.com/world-football/europe/16602-belgian-plan-to-cut-pro-club-numbers-sparks-fury-from-lower-leagues This news piece doesn't say as much, but I assume STVV would be one of the 24 remaining professional clubs, promoted or not. Would this reform create more pressure on RD to divest himself properly of either Standard or STVV?
---
Play-Off 1 fixtures (Kick-off times in Belgium, 1 hour ahead of BST):
Round 1 (05/04/2015 - 06/04/2015)
AA Gent - KV Kortrijk (Sunday 20:00)
Club Brugge - Standard (Monday 14:30)
Anderlecht - Charleroi (Monday 18:00)
Round 2 (11/04/2015 - 12/04/2015)
KV Kortrijk - Club Brugge (Saturday 18:00)
Charleroi - AA Gent (Saturday 20:30)
Standard - Anderlecht (Sunday 18:00)
Round 3 (17/04/2015 - 19/04/2015)
Standard - AA Gent (Friday 20:30)
Club Brugge - Anderlecht (Sunday 18:00)
KV Kortrijk - Charleroi (Sunday 20:30)
Round 4 (25/04/2015 - 26/04/2015)
Charleroi - Standard (Saturday 18:00)
Anderlecht - KV Kortrijk (Saturday 20:30)
AA Gent - Club Brugge (Sunday 18:00)
Round 5 (28/04/2015 - 30/04/2015)
KV Kortrijk - Standard (Tuesday 20:30)
Club Brugge - Charleroi (Wednesday 20:30)
AA Gent - Anderlecht (Thursday 20:30)
Round 6 (02/05/2015 - 03/05/2015)
Standard - Club Brugge (Saturday 18:00)
Kortrijk - AA Gent (Sunday 14:30)
Charleroi - Anderlecht (Sunday 18:00)
Round 7 (08/05/2015 - 10/05/2015)
AA Gent - Charleroi (Friday 20:30)
Anderlecht - Club Brugge (Sunday 14:30)
Standard - Kortrijk (Sunday 18:00)
Round 8 (17/05/2015)
Club Brugge - AA Gent (Sunday 14:30)
Anderlecht - Standard (Sunday 18:00)
Charleroi - KV Kortrijk (Sunday 20:30)
Round 9 (21/05/2015)
Charleroi - Club Brugge (Thursday 20:30)
AA Gent - Standard (Thursday 20:30)
KV Kortrijk - Anderlecht (Thursday 20:30)
Round 10 (24/05/2015)
Club Brugge - KV Kortrijk (Sunday 14:30)
Anderlecht - AA Gent (Sunday 14:30)
Standard - Charleroi (Sunday 14:30)