Don't you think the fact that he is a 'legend' works in our favour too. When he signed all those players he was a very inexperienced manager. So, what made the likes of Wiggins, Hamer, Morrison, Yann, Cort, Stephens etc sign for us? What made them run through brick walls for him? What made them outperform so dramatically last season?
Simple. Chris Powell and the passion he has for this club filtered through all the staff, players and management and got that extra 20% put of relatively average footballers.
What i'm saying with my previous posts and this one is this.
Powell is a good guy, no one doubts that. He is Charlton through and through, again, no one doubts that.
What i'm saying is that if he were not a Charlton legend would he still be here? If he had played half as many games for us would people have the same level of respect for him? Pardew, a man who also played for Charlton and has more managerial experience than Powell, is almost universally reviled by fans now.
The whole club legend as a manager thing skews peoples ability to make a rational decision. Your heart remembers that this is someone who has done great things for the club, while your head remembers the clubs failings on the pitch.
I think this says a lot actually. Taking the Pardew example, he took a premier league squad, spent millions adding to it and still finished lower than we did last year. There is a lot of love for Powell but it's hardly unrelated to his achievements.
The only thing that powell has done wrong is the loyalty he has shown the players that blew league 1 apart. Quite rightly, they deserved a crack at the championship and came within a win and a draw of the play offs. Admitedly this season is a different game altogether and I truly believe that CP has now recognised this and will without doubt turn it around. Im sure that this is my first post on this matter and I will trust CP as long as he is here
So at what point was he offered new, better players. Genuinely, do you believe he had any choice but to back his League 1 players?
What i'm saying with my previous posts and this one is this.
Powell is a good guy, no one doubts that. He is Charlton through and through, again, no one doubts that.
What i'm saying is that if he were not a Charlton legend would he still be here? If he had played half as many games for us would people have the same level of respect for him? Pardew, a man who also played for Charlton and has more managerial experience than Powell, is almost universally reviled by fans now.
The whole club legend as a manager thing skews peoples ability to make a rational decision. Your heart remembers that this is someone who has done great things for the club, while your head remembers the clubs failings on the pitch.
Would a manager who put the heart and soul back into the club, won league one with record points and has finished higher in every consecutive season he's been here, still be here? In my opinion, yes and he would bloody deserve to still be here.
And comparing him to Pardew, Dowie, Reed and Parkinson who achieved nothing and who each contributed to putting Charlton on the road to ruin (until Chris Powell saved us) is downright blasphemy.
Agree that Seed, Curbs and Lawrence all rank above Powell as a manager. CP has a lot more to do to reach that level, namely get us into the top flight.
As for being a legend keeping him in a job I doubt he was a legend to the Chelsea fan or the Man City fan or that he is to the Standard Leige fan.
I doubt the RD will worry about his playing days when decided if and when to offer him a new deal so it is a moot point.
What i'm saying with my previous posts and this one is this.
Powell is a good guy, no one doubts that. He is Charlton through and through, again, no one doubts that.
What i'm saying is that if he were not a Charlton legend would he still be here? If he had played half as many games for us would people have the same level of respect for him? Pardew, a man who also played for Charlton and has more managerial experience than Powell, is almost universally reviled by fans now.
The whole club legend as a manager thing skews peoples ability to make a rational decision. Your heart remembers that this is someone who has done great things for the club, while your head remembers the clubs failings on the pitch.
But according to your original post “Pardew [was] as useless as Dowie” – so possibly not surprising then that (as you say) he “actually had protests calling for him to be sacked” and “is almost universally reviled by fans now”.
And it is Pardew’s case that I think disproves your untouchable ‘Legend’ theory. When Pardew was managing Reading and then West Ham there were many fans hoping he’d come to us – both because he had “played for Charlton” and had reasonably successful “managerial experience”. Then when he left West Ham and came to us it was to almost universal acclaim and optimism. But (even with that goodwill) it was what he said and did as manager that led to calls for him to go and to how he is viewed now.
You also said:
“You can say that the former board are to blame, and to an extent you are right. The fact is though, Chris is the manager. He is in charge of the team. The board may control the money, but Chris controls the team”,
which I would have thought the sale of Kermorgant, Stephens, and particularly Alnwick (thereby forcing Powell to play Thuram) disproves – unless you’re implying that he could and should have done better with what he’s had this season (both before and after the takeover) despite this?
In which case spell out how and when – but fans discussing and disagreeing about that is not because Powell is an untouchable ‘legend’ but because of the on the pitch evidence of what he achieved in his first 2 seasons in charge when he was given the resources to do his job.
Chris has been shafted this week on players going out of the club , and has to put it up with it , he got shafted in the Summer when we should have strengthened , we are where we are because in part we've not strengthened the squad when we should have , we have got to stick together and get behind the team.
Interesting thread title AmericanAddick; it's a shame that you never actually addressed it once at any stage during your spiel. You might have a very good point, after all if you look at the whole footballing world there aren't many players that have had club legend status and then gone on to become successful managers at the same club. Maybe there's something in it, but you've not said anything that even touches on the subject. You've criticised Chris Powell alright, but there's no analysis to link your personal disappointment in his performance with your opening statement. The nearest you get is in saying that, "If the manager had been anyone other than Powell then Charlton fans would have been calling for his head". But this isn't a fact, it's an unsubstantiated hunch. And it's one that I would dispute. When Parkinson was sacked three years ago, there were a fair number of people who felt that was wrong and that hadn't been calling for his head. This was another manager who'd done his best with no support from the board and a substantial proportion of people could see that. Phil Parkinson wasn't a club legend, and yet there were still people that could see the bigger picture. There's no reason to think that things would be different if Powell hadn't been the player that he was.
It's an interesting opening statement too: "Chris Powell the player and Chris Powell the manager are two completely different people". But, are they really? I doubt it, because you've written nothing to support the claim, so unless you are holding back on certain information, it's just another completely unfounded assumption. Whilst I wouldn't deny that we should probably expect there to be some differences between Chris Powell the player and Chris Powell the manager, to describe them as completely different is nothing but sheer folly. They are a continuity of the same person; a little older, hopefully wiser, but still the same honourable man who loves football in general and Charlton in particular. Still the same man who understands that game, who knows that you have to work hard to succeed and, most of all, understands the importance of the people side of things. Two completely different people? Not a bit of it. One person who is a little older and now occupies a different role.
So what do we take from this seemingly promising post? You're a Charlton fan and you're hacked off at the moment - as you have every right to be. Not much more than that, unfortunately.
Not sure about this argument at all I want to take a bit of an issue with the statement regarding Phil Parkinson in so far that he was handed a basket case of a team after Pardew went, had even less backing than CP but managed to get us into the play off's of League 1 at the first attempt. Don't get me wrong the football was pretty dreary but hindsight tells me he did an OK job and like CP is a very decent man.
Onto the question CP has been great but I am certain that the current situation with players leaving and others arriving without any apparent consultation is surely taking it's toll and certainly his body language is that of a man at the end of his tether. I know what that's like years ago I worked for a great company and then it was bought out and everything changed, mostly for the worse and I became very demotivated and in the end couldn't wait to leave and that is where I think CP may be heading.
Will his reputation be tarnished? not in my eyes he did a great job but this could be the time for change no reflection on CP just the natural end to a employee/employer relationship. I for one will be sorry to see him go and if in the unlikely circumstance that any other ex player/legend is in the frame to take over who is capable of turning this debacle around then bring it on. Managers, Players and even ownres come and go in time the only consistent is the supporters and in that sense the club belongs to us so whatever happens we have to get behind whoever takes over and hope that we can pull out of this relegation mire.
I think this is a reasoned post but lets not forget Curbs and Gritty didn't do too badly, although Theo Foley, Eddie Firmani and Mike Bailey had mixed fortunes as Charlton managers.
People want to stick by him because he has been a magnificent manager for the last 2 years. Record points and 9th last year. Probably the third best manager in our 108 year history. Simple really
Seed, Lawrence, Curbs (Gritt) streets in front tbh
When did Jimmy Seed and Lenny Lawrence play for the club! I thought the starting thread was appointing Charlton playing legends being appointed manager? Sorry about my syntax.
Hi AmericanAddick. Quick question: when we pissed League One, why didn't you create a thread titled 'Chris Powell is a perfect example of how appointing a club legend works'? Why is it you've just come out of the woodwork now with your words of wisdom when things aren't going so well?
Honest question please no smart Alec response... How many of you on here (honestly) wanted Curbishley sacked after or during 98/99 season when his team selection errors (playing Ilic for too long after he lost his confidence, putting players feelings before the team) also a few other shows of loyalty that were questionable, which ultimately saw us relegated (against Wednesday of all people)?
The Powell-outers keep making the mistake of assuming others (like me) support Powell because he is a club legend. I support him because I still believe he is the best man for the job. And before you reply 'Five wins all season and going down', stop and think whether you really believe that the league table is nothing more than a league table of managerial ability.
Don't you think the fact that he is a 'legend' works in our favour too. When he signed all those players he was a very inexperienced manager. So, what made the likes of Wiggins, Hamer, Morrison, Yann, Cort, Stephens etc sign for us? What made them run through brick walls for him? What made them outperform s dramatically last season
Simple. Chris Powell and the passion he has for this club filtered through all the staff, players and management and got that extra 20% put of relatively average footballers.
Spot on SJH - Unfortunately, having to follow Charlton from Canada, I am unable to view games other than those I have attended. Too few, but memorably, the April 21, 2012 game at the Valley when Charlton were declared Champions.... I have not commented prior on Chris Powell's game by game management because following matches through BBC txt, ESPN Gamecasts and CAFC Player doesn't provide sufficient info for me to make a proper assessment. I do remember though that when first appointed, Chris Powell was to create a team that would get us out of League One and be competitive in the Championship. This he has done well beyond my expectations. Obviously, to progress, additional investment was needed and up until the take-over, it was not provided. With proper backing, IMHO, I have no doubt that Chris Powell has what it takes to take Charlton to the Premier League...... 100% Support for Chris Powell - IMHO, of course!!!!
Agreed entirely. We should never appoint a manager whos going to unite a club in disarray, single handedly replace an entire squad in 2 months and then win a title in his first season breaking pretty much every club record in the process, and immediately take us to a top 10 finish the following season. Roland if youre reading, please please please dont make that inexplicable mistake again.
Chris is a good manager because he can manage players and get them perform at a level above their abilities. He is intelligent and respected throughout football.
He has better judgement than those asking for him to be sacked in my opinion. Starting one thread after the other is not going to change the views of the vast majority of supporters who want him to stay.
To all those that are behind Chris - let's hear it Saturday.
Chris Powell the player and Chris Powell the manager are two completely different people.
As a player, Powell made almost 250 appearances in his three spells at Charlton. He instantly became a fan favorite due to his good personality, his passion, his drive and his jumps after team wins. No one can take this away from him...except for the fact that he has been appointed as manager of the club.
There's no doubt that Powell coming in was a great boost to the club. We had been left emotionally drained after Dowie, Reed, Pardew and Parkinson all failing miserably. Powell came in to stabilize the ship, and for awhile he did. The club achieved promotion from League One as champions, and had a great first season up in the Championship. Things were going well, until boardroom shenanigans began to cause turmoil both on and off the pitch. The clubs performance went to pot, five wins this season, nine draws and thirteen losses. The club sits in the relegation zone with a goal differential of -13, and the lowest scoring record of all clubs in the Championship.
You can say that the former board are to blame, and to an extent you are right. The fact is though, Chris is the manager. He is in charge of the team. The board may control the money, but Chris controls the team. Unfortunately, that team is not preforming on the pitch. The Wigan result, while always expected to happen, says it all. Charlton are simply being out classed and out played by all their opposition.
If the manager had been anyone other than Powell then Charlton fans would have been calling for his head. Pardew, another former Charlton player, actually had protests calling for him to be sacked.
The fact that we are talking about Powell though has caused people to become conflicted as to whether or not he should be sacked. I think it's become perfectly clear that this club should never appoint someone with as many ties to the club as Powell again. It's divided the fan base and when he is let go, whether it's sooner or later, it will tarnish people remembering Powell the player.
You keep talking about people being 'rational', but you seem to be saying that Powell wasn't the cause of the problem, but the solution is to sack him?
People want to stick by him because he has been a magnificent manager for the last 2 years. Record points and 9th last year. Probably the third best manager in our 108 year history. Simple really
Third-best manager in our history, that's an interesting one!
I am a huge admirer of SCP but I think we need to put his achievements into a broader perspective.
So far his core achievement has been winning League One and getting us back into the second tier - that basically puts him in line with people like Andy Nelson and Mike Bailey in terms of managerial achievements.
Historically speaking our three best managers would be Seed, Curbishley and Lawrence with Powell firmly back in the next group - he would need to get us into the PL to join that top group.
Chris Powell has one major impediment preventing him from being a great manager. NEGATIVITY. I have been following this matter very closely since witnessing the Sheff Wed home debacle last season which 100% confirmed my previously derived conclusion. Since that match it has been quite uncanny that on almost every occasion where he has taken a positive approach (mainly games in second half of last season) the team has gained points. He has now returned to his negative ways and the reverse is happening again. Somebody needs to have a word in his ear and question some of his decisions during a match. I don't think having your best mate as your assistant is such a good thing. He is very capable of getting things right, as he did against Brighton, but he needs to get this negative demon out of his head.
Chris Powell has one major impediment preventing him from being a great manager. NEGATIVITY. I have been following this matter very closely since witnessing the Sheff Wed home debacle last season which 100% confirmed my previously derived conclusion. Since that match it has been quite uncanny that on almost every occasion where he has taken a positive approach (mainly games in second half of last season) the team has gained points. He has now returned to his negative ways and the reverse is happening again. Somebody needs to have a word in his ear and question some of his decisions during a match. I don't think having your best mate as your assistant is such a good thing. He is very capable of getting things right, as he did against Brighton, but he needs to get this negative demon out of his head.
A couple things you said that are spot on. I think Dyer needs to go. It may be great fun having your best friend at work with you every day, but from a professional stand point, I think it is bad business. We need someone who would stand up to Powell and tell him they think he is making a mistake, politely of course. I honestly don't think Dyer has any business being our assistant manager. Mark Kinsella would have been better. There's a reason people say mixing your personal and business lives together is a bad idea.
I never meant to disparage Powell as a person, or his previous achievements in League One. What I am saying is that having someone with such a strong connection to the club as manager is likely skewing peoples views to make rational decisions about Powells management style.
AA, yes it definitely is skewing people's views. But at the end of the day it is the view of only one person that really matters, RD. It has been said the he is a pros v cons man. If that is the case then RD will be having the fact that CP is a legend and unites the club, firmly in the pros column. IMO this is currently saving Chris from the sack. His position cannot be justified on results or the style of football currently being played. But as I stated previously, there is hope for Chris if he could just change his mindset. Two or three wins on the trot and these conversations would soon be forgotten. In relation to Dyer, what an assistant needed to say to CP on Saturday was "we've tried shutting up shop on numerous occasions boss and invariably we get punished for it. Let's try something different for a change" If Dyer said that, all well and good, but I somehow doubt it.
dyer needs to go is the most ridiculous line i read on here regularly, Dyer is doing what powell and him plan every day for the next, he is there as an alternative viewpoint and a shoulder for chris to lean on
its the smae as Merv should go , its a load of bollox that is said when peoples intitial argument is failing, stick to your first thought which is powell should go then dyer will go also,
As soon as people start saying that Dyer needs to be chucked you know their argument has run out of steam. It's the jumping the shark of Charlton scapegoating
A couple things you said that are spot on. I think Dyer needs to go. It may be great fun having your best friend at work with you every day, but from a professional stand point, I think it is bad business. We need someone who would stand up to Powell and tell him they think he is making a mistake, politely of course. I honestly don't think Dyer has any business being our assistant manager. Mark Kinsella would have been better...
So now it's Dyer's fault! I realise you're just trawling for a reaction of course and I've given you what you want but perhaps you could share how you know what sort of working relationship AD and CP have? How do you you know what's said between them in private or what Alex does at Sparrows Lane?
dyer needs to go is the most ridiculous line i read on here regularly, Dyer is doing what powell and him plan every day for the next, he is there as an alternative viewpoint and a shoulder for chris to lean on
So then the question is, who is offering that alternative viewpoint? Because we seem to to keep repeating the same mistake. Is the alternative point of view not being offered, or has CP become too stubborn to listen to any other point of view? As I stated in my post above, if Alex Dyer offered an alternative view, all well and good. Because it is important that someone within the management setup needs to see that we cannot sit back and soak up pressure this season without conceding heart breaking late goals. One thing is for sure, if CP, AD or even Keithie cannot see where they are getting it wrong, RD and his advisers will be very quick to offer an alternative point of view.
We all know that there are deeply divided opinions about CP. I now, despite loving the man that he is, am anxious that we recruit above all a competent coach who understands the way in which the top teams are playing, do not give the ball away, do not waste crosses etc. I realise that people will be queuing up to tell remind me that we lack quality in the squad. At Gillingham on Saturday they looked a far better side with limited finances. The correct appointment could still save us, Roland is obviously an action man who knows what he wants. get ot right Roland.
Comments
Simple. Chris Powell and the passion he has for this club filtered through all the staff, players and management and got that extra 20% put of relatively average footballers.
And comparing him to Pardew, Dowie, Reed and Parkinson who achieved nothing and who each contributed to putting Charlton on the road to ruin (until Chris Powell saved us) is downright blasphemy.
As for being a legend keeping him in a job I doubt he was a legend to the Chelsea fan or the Man City fan or that he is to the Standard Leige fan.
I doubt the RD will worry about his playing days when decided if and when to offer him a new deal so it is a moot point.
Would I have taken a relegation battle in the Championship 3 years ago after. 13th placed League One finish? Absolutely.
Whether we change now or not is a different question, but the appointment certainly worked and improved us as a club.
And it is Pardew’s case that I think disproves your untouchable ‘Legend’ theory. When Pardew was managing Reading and then West Ham there were many fans hoping he’d come to us – both because he had “played for Charlton” and had reasonably successful “managerial experience”. Then when he left West Ham and came to us it was to almost universal acclaim and optimism. But (even with that goodwill) it was what he said and did as manager that led to calls for him to go and to how he is viewed now.
You also said:
“You can say that the former board are to blame, and to an extent you are right. The fact is though, Chris is the manager. He is in charge of the team. The board may control the money, but Chris controls the team”,
which I would have thought the sale of Kermorgant, Stephens, and particularly Alnwick (thereby forcing Powell to play Thuram) disproves – unless you’re implying that he could and should have done better with what he’s had this season (both before and after the takeover) despite this?
In which case spell out how and when – but fans discussing and disagreeing about that is not because Powell is an untouchable ‘legend’ but because of the on the pitch evidence of what he achieved in his first 2 seasons in charge when he was given the resources to do his job.
It's an interesting opening statement too: "Chris Powell the player and Chris Powell the manager are two completely different people". But, are they really? I doubt it, because you've written nothing to support the claim, so unless you are holding back on certain information, it's just another completely unfounded assumption. Whilst I wouldn't deny that we should probably expect there to be some differences between Chris Powell the player and Chris Powell the manager, to describe them as completely different is nothing but sheer folly. They are a continuity of the same person; a little older, hopefully wiser, but still the same honourable man who loves football in general and Charlton in particular. Still the same man who understands that game, who knows that you have to work hard to succeed and, most of all, understands the importance of the people side of things. Two completely different people? Not a bit of it. One person who is a little older and now occupies a different role.
So what do we take from this seemingly promising post? You're a Charlton fan and you're hacked off at the moment - as you have every right to be. Not much more than that, unfortunately.
I have not commented prior on Chris Powell's game by game management because following matches through BBC txt, ESPN Gamecasts and CAFC Player doesn't provide sufficient info for me to make a proper assessment.
I do remember though that when first appointed, Chris Powell was to create a team that would get us out of League One and be competitive in the Championship. This he has done well beyond my expectations. Obviously, to progress, additional investment was needed and up until the take-over, it was not provided.
With proper backing, IMHO, I have no doubt that Chris Powell has what it takes to take Charlton to the Premier League......
100% Support for Chris Powell - IMHO, of course!!!!
give him a month with these new players... He will totally get us out of this ... and man up you bunch of cry babies...
He has better judgement than those asking for him to be sacked in my opinion. Starting one thread after the other is not going to change the views of the vast majority of supporters who want him to stay.
To all those that are behind Chris - let's hear it Saturday.
I am a huge admirer of SCP but I think we need to put his achievements into a broader perspective.
So far his core achievement has been winning League One and getting us back into the second tier - that basically puts him in line with people like Andy Nelson and Mike Bailey in terms of managerial achievements.
Historically speaking our three best managers would be Seed, Curbishley and Lawrence with Powell firmly back in the next group - he would need to get us into the PL to join that top group.
I have been following this matter very closely since witnessing the Sheff Wed home debacle last season which 100% confirmed my previously derived conclusion. Since that match it has been quite uncanny that on almost every occasion where he has taken a positive approach (mainly games in second half of last season) the team has gained points. He has now returned to his negative ways and the reverse is happening again. Somebody needs to have a word in his ear and question some of his decisions during a match. I don't think having your best mate as your assistant is such a good thing. He is very capable of getting things right, as he did against Brighton, but he needs to get this negative demon out of his head.
I never meant to disparage Powell as a person, or his previous achievements in League One. What I am saying is that having someone with such a strong connection to the club as manager is likely skewing peoples views to make rational decisions about Powells management style.
But as I stated previously, there is hope for Chris if he could just change his mindset. Two or three wins on the trot and these conversations would soon be forgotten.
In relation to Dyer, what an assistant needed to say to CP on Saturday was "we've tried shutting up shop on numerous occasions boss and invariably we get punished for it. Let's try something different for a change"
If Dyer said that, all well and good, but I somehow doubt it.
its the smae as Merv should go , its a load of bollox that is said when peoples intitial argument is failing, stick to your first thought which is powell should go then dyer will go also,
As I stated in my post above, if Alex Dyer offered an alternative view, all well and good. Because it is important that someone within the management setup needs to see that we cannot sit back and soak up pressure this season without conceding heart breaking late goals. One thing is for sure, if CP, AD or even Keithie cannot see where they are getting it wrong, RD and his advisers will be very quick to offer an alternative point of view.