The Chris Powell out stuff is nonsense in my eyes. Answer me this, where do yo think we'd be sitting in the league right now if Alex Ferguson was incharge? I'd say 22nd, because without a pot to piss from August it's where anyone would end up.
But if I was an opposing manager and go a goal down - I would always try to throw teh kitchen sink at us- even if I managed a pub team! And I think there is an issue that this approach is too likely to succeed, because we sit back too much in these situations.
On another day we would have lost 3..4-0. We always drop back and defend when we have a lead.
That's the Charlton way. Years back in the Prem we were 1-0 up away at Liverpool and ended up losing 2-1, we sat back that day and we got everything thrown at us.
Some people say 'oh it's not Powell's fault, he's lost his best players'. Does anyone actually think we'd have played any different in the second half if Stephens and Yann had been out there.
Powell's only tactic appears to be to nick a goal and hang on for dear life. At Huddersfield it worked, today it didn't.
The problem with the 'seige mentality' that we adopt when hanging on, is that it needs an outlet - or the ball comes straight back, as opponents press again.
That's what pushes us back deeper and deeper until holding the defensive line on the 18 yard line.
It's plain to see that during the 2nd half at Wigan we had very little outlet - and so the pressure comes again and again until we buckle.
Both Stephens and Yann were very good outlet players. And in this context, I feel they were a big loss.
Some people say 'oh it's not Powell's fault, he's lost his best players'. Does anyone actually think we'd have played any different in the second half if Stephens and Yann had been out there.
Powell's only tactic appears to be to nick a goal and hang on for dear life. At Huddersfield it worked, today it didn't.
The problem with the 'seige mentality' that we adopt when hanging on, is that it needs an outlet - or the ball comes straight back, as opponents press again.
That's what pushes us back deeper and deeper until holding the defensive line on the 18 yard line.
It's plain to see that during the 2nd half at Wigan we had very little outlet - and so the pressure comes again and again until we buckle.
Both Stephens and Yann were very good outlet players. And in this context, I feel they were a big loss.
I'm not sure Yann and Stephens would have made any difference. What you need playing that way is pace up front and energy. Bringing on Pritchard for his energy not a bad call but taking a striker off does allow opponents to be a bit more desperate. When a team decides to play high up the pitch - it is your opportunity to punish them. We never view this in those terms and let them do this in relative safety. I think we can look at matches were we have held on, but it will always lose us more points than it wins us playing this way. This season is a perfect example.
And we have done this in matches where we are on top and have allowed desperate opponents back at us so it has to be mor ethan a lack of quality and more about mentality. Some managers will say that it isn't their intention and it is the players, but the subs you make can send a signal!
"tango flash" Some would probably say genius if we'd managed to hold on. That's the fine line...............
Wellwickman Don't recall too many complaining about the abject 2nd half at Senegal Fields last Aprl. Think we managed one corner on the restart. Wigan badly needed us to spread the play so they could counter-attack. We were undone by two substitutions. Rossler knows the game. Plied his stuff down the road.
If SCP was to go, who would you have in his place, that is available?
That's not our call to make though. Look at what RD did at Liege, he sacked the manager and brought in a complete unknown in the summer who has them 10 points clear at the top.
Look at the outrage from Southampton fans when Adkins went and a then pretty much unknown guy was hired who couldn't even speak English. Now look at them.
If Powell is sacked, it doesn't necessarily mean RD will hire someone that we've all heard of. In fact i'd bet he'd do the exact opposite and hire someone who has us all asking, who the f*ck is he?
Of course, forum commentators are known for there tactical nous. Suppose we could have all done a better job! Yes we are all andy gray when you look at a match in hindsight, but do you all spend 4 hours a day 5 days a week on the training ground with these players? Do you all sit in on the reflective review meetings? Do you all sit in on the tactical drills that the management team discuss and execute in training all week long? The fact is you don't. And do you know how much of a drain it is to constantly look at all the negative posts bashing "tactics" and people jumping at the opportunity to enlighten us as to why they are so incorrect, and awful and wrong. At the end of the day Chris Powell is a football manager, an ex pro and someone who has lived and breathed the game for the best part of 30 years. Il trust in the tactics he, dyer and peacock go with, because despite what you think.... None of you know better, because if you did you would be in management and we would be discussing why not to appoint lifers as a manager when it all goes slightly awry for you.
Some people say 'oh it's not Powell's fault, he's lost his best players'. Does anyone actually think we'd have played any different in the second half if Stephens and Yann had been out there.
Powell's only tactic appears to be to nick a goal and hang on for dear life. At Huddersfield it worked, today it didn't.
The problem with the 'seige mentality' that we adopt when hanging on, is that it needs an outlet - or the ball comes straight back, as opponents press again.
That's what pushes us back deeper and deeper until holding the defensive line on the 18 yard line.
It's plain to see that during the 2nd half at Wigan we had very little outlet - and so the pressure comes again and again until we buckle.
Both Stephens and Yann were very good outlet players. And in this context, I feel they were a big loss.
I'm not sure Yann and Stephens would have made any difference. What you need playing that way is pace up front and energy.
In a typical scenario when we're under the cosh, our lines are cleared with a hoof or on occasion our player will bring the ball out of defence,
But then what are our options?
We need somebody to drop off to receive the ball and hold it, before bringing team mates into play.
It's that lack of hold up play which means we create nothing and opponents straightaway regain possession - and we're under pressure again.
Of course, forum commentators are known for there tactical nous. Suppose we could have all done a better job! Yes we are all andy gray when you look at a match in hindsight, but do you all spend 4 hours a day 5 days a week on the training ground with these players? Do you all sit in on the reflective review meetings? Do you all sit in on the tactical drills that the management team discuss and execute in training all week long? The fact is you don't. And do you know how much of a drain it is to constantly look at all the negative posts bashing "tactics" and people jumping at the opportunity to enlighten us as to why they are so incorrect, and awful and wrong. At the end of the day Chris Powell is a football manager, an ex pro and someone who has lived and breathed the game for the best part of 30 years. Il trust in the tactics he, dyer and peacock go with, because despite what you think.... None of you know better, because if you did you would be in management and we would be discussing why not to appoint lifers as a manager when it all goes slightly awry for you.
That is the post of the week for me outstanding points made and couldn't agree more
Of course, forum commentators are known for there tactical nous. Suppose we could have all done a better job! Yes we are all andy gray when you look at a match in hindsight, but do you all spend 4 hours a day 5 days a week on the training ground with these players? Do you all sit in on the reflective review meetings? Do you all sit in on the tactical drills that the management team discuss and execute in training all week long? The fact is you don't. And do you know how much of a drain it is to constantly look at all the negative posts bashing "tactics" and people jumping at the opportunity to enlighten us as to why they are so incorrect, and awful and wrong. At the end of the day Chris Powell is a football manager, an ex pro and someone who has lived and breathed the game for the best part of 30 years. Il trust in the tactics he, dyer and peacock go with, because despite what you think.... None of you know better, because if you did you would be in management and we would be discussing why not to appoint lifers as a manager when it all goes slightly awry for you.
That is the post of the week for me outstanding points made and couldn't agree more
Couldn't agree more. If I see one more hindsight 'expert' mention tactical naivety I'll scream
The above post is all whats wrong with CP supporters its blind faith, if the above were true there would not be bad or good managers you plum. Because your an ex-footballer and a manager does not mean you are a good manager otherwise no one would ever loose their job and CP should manage Real Madrid. The fact is his tatics are wrong, he picks Pritchard, have you not been watching any games its awful, boot it up the field rubbish. Your all letting your love for CP blind you from the truth, we need a change.
I thought his tactics were minutes away from getting an away win against one of the best teams in the division, having lost 3 first team players and his two first choice full backs and replaced them with players that have no championship experience, two of whom only arrived at the end of last week...nah, you're right, he brought on Pritchard, ignoring the wealth of other options so he must be clueless.
The above post is all whats wrong with CP supporters its blind faith, if the above were true there would not be bad or good managers you plum. Because your an ex-footballer and a manager does not mean you are a good manager otherwise no one would ever loose their job and CP should manage Real Madrid. The fact is his tatics are wrong, he picks Pritchard, have you not been watching any games its awful, boot it up the field rubbish. Your all letting your love for CP blind you from the truth, we need a change.
Paragraphs, punctuation, grammar, spelling, capitalisation and coherent arguments are your friend.
Of course, forum commentators are known for there tactical nous. Suppose we could have all done a better job! Yes we are all andy gray when you look at a match in hindsight, but do you all spend 4 hours a day 5 days a week on the training ground with these players? Do you all sit in on the reflective review meetings? Do you all sit in on the tactical drills that the management team discuss and execute in training all week long? The fact is you don't. And do you know how much of a drain it is to constantly look at all the negative posts bashing "tactics" and people jumping at the opportunity to enlighten us as to why they are so incorrect, and awful and wrong. At the end of the day Chris Powell is a football manager, an ex pro and someone who has lived and breathed the game for the best part of 30 years. Il trust in the tactics he, dyer and peacock go with, because despite what you think.... None of you know better, because if you did you would be in management and we would be discussing why not to appoint lifers as a manager when it all goes slightly awry for you.
Agree 100% - posted similar myself the other day.
Fine to DISAGREE with his tactics, no problem with that at all, but to label a guy with 25 years in the pro game as "tactically naive" is just embarrassing and insulting.
I said the same thing about Parkinson when terrace "experts" put the "tactically naive" bullshit on him.
I agree that we can all disagree with the tactics chosen, and there are bad managers, of course there are, but it can often be down to alot more than getting the tactics wrong sometimes, (i.e buying awful players for huge sums, getting players lost on a run before a game, letting low morale get the better of the players, making no effort to build a relationship with the owner or board) Powell may turn out to be a bad manager indeed but at the moment? After 1 poor half a season out of the 3 he has been in charge? I'm not yet willing to throw the cards in yet.
Tactical genius that I am, this is what I'd do to alleviate constant unmitigating pressure. I'd get the defense to push up the pitch. I'd bring on a player who could dictate the pace and slow the game down (We only really have Hughes atm that can do this) I'd bring on a forward who could chase through balls into the channels (Church) and instruct him to head for the corner flags and draw as many fouls, throw ins and corners as possible. Then I'd use plenty of gamesmanship to frustrate the hell out of them, pass backs to keeper, time wasting etc. The one thing I wouldn't do is bring on another centre half, not only does it upset the rhythm of the defence, it attracts even more pressure to the now disrupted defense. I'd try that, and guess what, if it didn't work I'd try something different. My problem with Powell and his coaching team is that he has tried the same thing on a few occasions now this season and it has failed miserably. "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it"!
The above post is all whats wrong with CP supporters its blind faith, if the above were true there would not be bad or good managers you plum. Because your an ex-footballer and a manager does not mean you are a good manager otherwise no one would ever loose their job and CP should manage Real Madrid. The fact is his tatics are wrong, he picks Pritchard, have you not been watching any games its awful, boot it up the field rubbish. Your all letting your love for CP blind you from the truth, we need a change.
Paragraphs, punctuation, grammar, spelling, capitalisation and coherent arguments are your friend.
Excellent response typical trainspotter cannot handle the truth so pick on my punctuation. Stick to sitting on your hands in the west stand and looking for your seat number in the away stand when there is 1000 empty seats.
Of course, forum commentators are known for there tactical nous. Suppose we could have all done a better job! Yes we are all andy gray when you look at a match in hindsight, but do you all spend 4 hours a day 5 days a week on the training ground with these players? Do you all sit in on the reflective review meetings? Do you all sit in on the tactical drills that the management team discuss and execute in training all week long? The fact is you don't. And do you know how much of a drain it is to constantly look at all the negative posts bashing "tactics" and people jumping at the opportunity to enlighten us as to why they are so incorrect, and awful and wrong. At the end of the day Chris Powell is a football manager, an ex pro and someone who has lived and breathed the game for the best part of 30 years. Il trust in the tactics he, dyer and peacock go with, because despite what you think.... None of you know better, because if you did you would be in management and we would be discussing why not to appoint lifers as a manager when it all goes slightly awry for you.
Excellent post. Is there a post of the season award?
Ok - lets move this discussion back to basics. You are the manager and your opponent's manager Jimmy Kamikasi likes to play 5 up front and go all out for a goal or three. What do you do? Well, firstly I would imagine you smile knowing this is not a wise tactic. Then you set up to exploit the weakness of this tactic- a tactic that nobody employs from the start of a game because of its flaws. What you don't do is flood your defence and go totally backs to the wall with no outlet! You don't do that as it is the only scenario that gives this tactic the advantage!
But what if you are winning a game and you have forced a manager to go desperate. Some managers like Nigel Pearson try to leave the desperation until 20 minutes to go because of the risks of all out attack. Some like Ian Holloway will do it relatively early. Should you not have a ploy and drills for this eventuality and prepare for it in the same way as you would if you knew the manager would be adopting this risky position from the start? I think you should and there will be occasions when it goes against you. But because of the inherent weaknesses in playing five up front against a system that is designed to counter it means that you will get the best of your opponent more often than not. Of course it would be better if the opponent's manager didn't go too attacking when behind as you can continue playing in the same way that has got you the lead. But that is why he does it - to ask you new questions as you are answering the old ones - and there is nothing to lose by taking the risk. You can't ignore this, even if it is a nuisance- you have to react to it.
You don't have to be a master coach and tactician to work that out and it is something Chrissy has to work out a new approach for. I have not been calling for him to be sacked - apart from his in game changes which can sometimes be wrong or too late or too negative - I think he is a great manager. But if we are not deemed qualified to observe what is as obvious as the noses on our faces, that is a sorry state of affairs on a football forum. And none of us could do as good a job overall as Powell, of course not, but we can spot a weakness when it is obvious - just as we can spot other failings - watching football for many years does give you some insight!
Muttley, unless you have certificates to say that you have attended coaching courses, have played the professional game, or work with our players every day of the week, your point of view has absolutely no merit. That is, until such time that CP adopts it and we start winning some games! It's a game of opinions, until such time that you dare to articulate a differing one to that of our beloved boss (no sarcasm intended).
The Chris Powell out stuff is nonsense in my eyes. Answer me this, where do yo think we'd be sitting in the league right now if Alex Ferguson was incharge? I'd say 22nd, because without a pot to piss from August it's where anyone would end up.
That's not true - would we be a better team with Powell managing the team or with me as manager ? Of course we would be better under CP.
By the same notion we would be better off under Mourinho than Powell.
So, CP is such a poor manager that players wanted to leave if he signed a new contract?
Well he must be crap.
Now if they wanted to stay it....
May I also thank all those who have kindly given me their insights on how to defend a lead. I am sure your sons under 11 sides are top of their leagues with the help of your guidance from the touchline. Just why CP has never even considered this and with such an array of talent with pace and skill to hold up the ball sitting on the bench is a mystery. I am sure he would appreciate it if you dropped him a line explaining where he went wrong.
I also find it so refreshing that there is a new confidence that Roland has that natural flair and experience in football, and the championship in particular, to be able to hand pick a replacement that will within a short period of time have CAFC 10 points clear at the top of the Premier.
I actually thought that CP got the tacticts spot on against Wigan. Two young and inexperienced backs and he chose two experienced players who could tackle to come on.
I know Queensland- and I don't want him to go - It is just it is quite an obvious point that we clearly have to address.
Neither do I. I just want him to become an even better manager by addressing his weaknesses. But it seems that if you dare to critisise him, you're automatically put into the "Powell out" camp.
So, CP is such a poor manager that players wanted to leave if he signed a new contract?
Well he must be crap.
Now if they wanted to stay it....
May I also thank all those who have kindly given me their insights on how to defend a lead. I am sure your sons under 11 sides are top of their leagues with the help of your guidance from the touchline. Just why CP has never even considered this and with such an array of talent with pace and skill to hold up the ball sitting on the bench is a mystery. I am sure he would appreciate it if you dropped him a line explaining where he went wrong.
I also find it so refreshing that there is a new confidence that Roland has that natural flair and experience in football, and the championship in particular, to be able to hand pick a replacement that will within a short period of time have CAFC 10 points clear at the top of the Premier.
I actually thought that CP got the tacticts spot on against Wigan. Two young and inexperienced backs and he chose two experienced players who could tackle to come on.
Hmmm, one can also say that players, acutely aware of their own shortcomings, might prefer a manager who keeps on picking them over an unknown who will evaluate them in the cold light of the day?
I love Powell but sometimes he frustrates me by continuing to select Pritchard and Jackson, it's evident that the former is a lightweight and the latter's legs gone and would be best deployed to come on from 50-60 minute onwards as he's got an instinct for goals without a doubt.
Comments
Answer me this, where do yo think we'd be sitting in the league right now if Alex Ferguson was incharge? I'd say 22nd, because without a pot to piss from August it's where anyone would end up.
That's the Charlton way. Years back in the Prem we were 1-0 up away at Liverpool and ended up losing 2-1, we sat back that day and we got everything thrown at us.
Some days it works, some days it does not
We dust down and go again, 19 games, 57 points!
That's what pushes us back deeper and deeper until holding the defensive line on the 18 yard line.
It's plain to see that during the 2nd half at Wigan we had very little outlet - and so the pressure comes again and again until we buckle.
Both Stephens and Yann were very good outlet players.
And in this context, I feel they were a big loss.
And we have done this in matches where we are on top and have allowed desperate opponents back at us so it has to be mor ethan a lack of quality and more about mentality. Some managers will say that it isn't their intention and it is the players, but the subs you make can send a signal!
Some would probably say genius if we'd managed to hold on. That's the fine line...............
Wellwickman
Don't recall too many complaining about the abject 2nd half at Senegal Fields last Aprl. Think we managed one corner on the restart. Wigan badly needed us to spread the play so they could counter-attack. We were undone by two substitutions.
Rossler knows the game. Plied his stuff down the road.
That's not our call to make though. Look at what RD did at Liege, he sacked the manager and brought in a complete unknown in the summer who has them 10 points clear at the top.
Look at the outrage from Southampton fans when Adkins went and a then pretty much unknown guy was hired who couldn't even speak English. Now look at them.
If Powell is sacked, it doesn't necessarily mean RD will hire someone that we've all heard of. In fact i'd bet he'd do the exact opposite and hire someone who has us all asking, who the f*ck is he?
In a typical scenario when we're under the cosh, our lines are cleared with a hoof or on occasion our player will bring the ball out of defence,
But then what are our options?
We need somebody to drop off to receive the ball and hold it, before bringing team mates into play.
It's that lack of hold up play which means we create nothing and opponents straightaway regain possession - and we're under pressure again.
Fine to DISAGREE with his tactics, no problem with that at all, but to label a guy with 25 years in the pro game as "tactically naive" is just embarrassing and insulting.
I said the same thing about Parkinson when terrace "experts" put the "tactically naive" bullshit on him.
Not in my book!
It was just a matter of time before Wigan scored, it was amazing that it took as long as it did to be honest!
Powell may turn out to be a bad manager indeed but at the moment? After 1 poor half a season out of the 3 he has been in charge? I'm not yet willing to throw the cards in yet.
I'd try that, and guess what, if it didn't work I'd try something different. My problem with Powell and his coaching team is that he has tried the same thing on a few occasions now this season and it has failed miserably. "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it"!
But what if you are winning a game and you have forced a manager to go desperate. Some managers like Nigel Pearson try to leave the desperation until 20 minutes to go because of the risks of all out attack. Some like Ian Holloway will do it relatively early. Should you not have a ploy and drills for this eventuality and prepare for it in the same way as you would if you knew the manager would be adopting this risky position from the start? I think you should and there will be occasions when it goes against you. But because of the inherent weaknesses in playing five up front against a system that is designed to counter it means that you will get the best of your opponent more often than not. Of course it would be better if the opponent's manager didn't go too attacking when behind as you can continue playing in the same way that has got you the lead. But that is why he does it - to ask you new questions as you are answering the old ones - and there is nothing to lose by taking the risk. You can't ignore this, even if it is a nuisance- you have to react to it.
You don't have to be a master coach and tactician to work that out and it is something Chrissy has to work out a new approach for. I have not been calling for him to be sacked - apart from his in game changes which can sometimes be wrong or too late or too negative - I think he is a great manager. But if we are not deemed qualified to observe what is as obvious as the noses on our faces, that is a sorry state of affairs on a football forum. And none of us could do as good a job overall as Powell, of course not, but we can spot a weakness when it is obvious - just as we can spot other failings - watching football for many years does give you some insight!
By the same notion we would be better off under Mourinho than Powell.
Well he must be crap.
Now if they wanted to stay it....
May I also thank all those who have kindly given me their insights on how to defend a lead. I am sure your sons under 11 sides are top of their leagues with the help of your guidance from the touchline. Just why CP has never even considered this and with such an array of talent with pace and skill to hold up the ball sitting on the bench is a mystery. I am sure he would appreciate it if you dropped him a line explaining where he went wrong.
I also find it so refreshing that there is a new confidence that Roland has that natural flair and experience in football, and the championship in particular, to be able to hand pick a replacement that will within a short period of time have CAFC 10 points clear at the top of the Premier.
I actually thought that CP got the tacticts spot on against Wigan. Two young and inexperienced backs and he chose two experienced players who could tackle to come on.
I love Powell but sometimes he frustrates me by continuing to select Pritchard and Jackson, it's evident that the former is a lightweight and the latter's legs gone and would be best deployed to come on from 50-60 minute onwards as he's got an instinct for goals without a doubt.
Now back to the FA2014... ;-)