This thread is an example of the views of the modern football supporter encapsulated nicely. We have a manager who is doing the very best he can, albeit he's not perfect and makes mistakes, like we all do in our jobs. Yet some feel that there must be an (unspecified) better option out there based on nothing but emotion it seems.
He's had zero support from his employers in the transfer market for what three(?) transfer windows and despite his best efforts the limitations of our squad is finally showing on the pitch and in our league position.
Anyone who expected anything other than a struggle this year back on 31st August was being completely unrealistic and so it is proving. It would be an interesting exercise to go back and compare the various threads predicting our finishing positions with those now calling for a change of manager. I suspect that for the vast majority we are where we expected to be and few, if any, were calling for CP to be replaced in August.
So what's changed? Nothing in my view, we were up against in before the season started and we were always up against it. The one and only thing Powelly had going for him back then was a hard working, honest bunch of players giving their best for him and from what I can see that's still the same.
Let's us, the fans, not now lose our bottle and get on his back at the very time he needs our the most.
Modern football supporter? The game has always been a results business and managers, and players, have always got the pump.
Very true but my perception is that fans now are far less willing to accept that managers may need time and space to do their job.
Our club has thrived where we have provided the manager with that time and space to build their team in Seed, Lennie and Curbs. The same cannot be said where we've been quick on the trigger and we should learn that lesson. We have the right man for the job IMO, now let's not jettison him at the first sign of choppy waters.
I am a big supporter's of CP and am willing him to succeed. He obviously hasn't been allowed to strengthen the squad as he had wished. However I do believe the the current group of players should be doing a lot better than they are and that they are not is down to CP and his coaching staff. I thought he got the starting line up wrong today. Kermy drops too deep to play the up top role and I don't think the answer to not scoring goals is to play one striker. We need to stick to 4-4-2 and stop tinkering. And although changes were needed, and too late in my opinion, I thought subbing Green was unwise and not needed. If our owners had any money I'm sure CP would have gone by now. He's clinging on because they can't afford to dispense with his services.
But if the owners had any money we'd still have Fuller, Haynes and Obika rather than Church and Sordell. Think how many points difference some finishing would have made.
Yesterday summer it up for me. We played the team with the third best form in Europe, and more than matched them. They got a lucky break, we threw everything we had at them but what we had - what Powell has - isn't enough.
The one time he's spent anything like a transfer budget we smashed 13 records on the way to the title. That's why we want to keep hold of him - the potential in a chairman backing him is immense.
But thats because we bought the title, Man City of League 1
Untrue. Huddersfield had a significantly bigger player budget than us, and scraped in through the play offs. Source: director.
I'm confused (nothing new there) in that many on here blame the Board and want to get rid. However, they have been incredibly loyal to the manager they first appointed and supported him since day one. I further understand that CAFC will only just about stay within the current FFP debt requirements this season thus narrowly avoiding a FFP fine.
So I will be most grateful to learn how the manager has not been supported by the board.
If no reasonable explanation is forthcoming I can only deduce that the responsibility for the current under performance must lie with the player management and not the Board???
That is a seriously misleading comment.
Don't take my word for it people, read Mundell Fleming's excellent summary of FFP on the Trust website.
There you will learn that Charlton are actually one of minority in the division currently on target to actually comply with FFP. Then we should a factor in the advantages of clubs which have various levels of parachute money, with whom we have to compete each week. Finally, owners may choose to spend more by increasing their equity investment in the club. This lot choose not to do so. However this is important for the CP debate. If you propose to for example replace CP with Steve Clarke, well Clarke will want to know what the owners' plans for investment are. When he hears 'nothing' and then looks at the current squad, I think he will quietly say, thanks but no thanks. Steve Maclaren, on the other hand, inherited an excellent squad that was underperforming. Derby were one of the teams I saw at the Valley last year and the quality was there for all to see. But they couldn't finish us off, unlike yesterday.
How do 'we' know that Powell has not 'lost the dressing room'? .. lately the players appear: a) not to know what they are supposed to be doing , especially at home and: b) he seems to be picking his favourites, (e.g.) Morrison, Pritchard, Kermorgant, Dervite, irrespective of their form. If Irving and AFKA have proof that the players are all 100% behind Powell, perhaps they will share this with us all
How do 'we' know that Powell has not 'lost the dressing room'? .. lately the players appear: a) not to know what they are supposed to be doing , especially at home and: b) he seems to be picking his favourites, (e.g.) Morrison, Pritchard, Kermorgant, Dervite, irrespective of their form. If Irving and AFKA have proof that the players are all 100% behind Powell, perhaps they will share this with us all
He hardly has any players to chose from.
Pritchard has been dropped recently and not even on the bench so that doesn't point to picking favourites.
Wood could come in but as we only have 3 fit CHs one of MM or DD would have to play.
And I didn't say the players were 100% behind CP. I said he hasn't lost the dressing room. That is based on seeing the effort the players are making for him. Results aren't coming but not due to the vast majority of players not putting in effort for the team or boss.
^^^ hardly 'proof', more opinion .. and as usual, we will have to differ with our opinions .. incidentally, I am not in favour of Powell being sacked or leaving .. however, the adulation shown him by many on here is not IN MY OPINION justified, some of his recent team selections and tactics have been woeful .. he needs to buck his ideas up. Last word, his brief appearance on TV yesterday portrayed (to my eyes) a man who is careworn and depressed. If this is so, it cannot be good for the 'dressing room' if this rather hangdog attitude is carried over in there. Come on Powell, most of us are behind you, but we need to see improvement and we need to see it soon. We have had a good run in the autumn .. why has this form and player attitude collapsed ?
^^^ hardly 'proof', more opinion .. and as usual, we will have to differ with our opinions .. incidentally, I am not in favour of Powell being sacked or leaving .. however, the adulation shown him by many on here is not IN MY OPINION justified, some of his recent team selections and tactics have been woeful .. he needs to buck his ideas up. Last word, his brief appearance on TV yesterday portrayed (to my eyes) a man who is careworn and depressed. If this is so, it cannot be good for the 'dressing room' if this rather hangdog attitude is carried over in there. Come on Powell, most of us are behind you, but we need to see improvement and we need to see it soon. We have had a good run in the autumn .. why has this form and player attitude collapsed ?
Do you think the board are asking him the same questions?
Yeah Barnsley changed their manager, the bloke did brilliantly and kept them up, new impetus and all that. He is now manager of Bury two weeks after Barnsley sacked him. The underlying problems at Barnsley is the real issue surely. We beat them 6-0 under Flitcroft, which ought to have given their board a bit of a clue, but no, they are doing it all again, may well survive, but what then? Another new manager next Autumn?
^^^ hardly 'proof', more opinion .. and as usual, we will have to differ with our opinions .. incidentally, I am not in favour of Powell being sacked or leaving .. however, the adulation shown him by many on here is not IN MY OPINION justified, some of his recent team selections and tactics have been woeful .. he needs to buck his ideas up. Last word, his brief appearance on TV yesterday portrayed (to my eyes) a man who is careworn and depressed. If this is so, it cannot be good for the 'dressing room' if this rather hangdog attitude is carried over in there. Come on Powell, most of us are behind you, but we need to see improvement and we need to see it soon. We have had a good run in the autumn .. why has this form and player attitude collapsed ?
Do you think the board are asking him the same questions?
I would hope so .. but again the circular question .. who is in a directorial/playing affairs supervisory role at the club ?
I don't think you can really offer an opinion on whether the man has lost the dressing room. He either has or he hasn't, and unless someone's managed to bug the dressing room (well done by the way if you have) then it's a bit of a pointless claim to make
I don't think you can really offer an opinion on whether the man has lost the dressing room. He either has or he hasn't, and unless someone's managed to bug the dressing room (well done by the way if you have) then it's a bit of a pointless claim to make
Agreed, and Surely until there's proof to the contrary you assume that he hasn't lost the dressing room ?
^^^ hardly 'proof', more opinion .. and as usual, we will have to differ with our opinions .. incidentally, I am not in favour of Powell being sacked or leaving .. however, the adulation shown him by many on here is not IN MY OPINION justified, some of his recent team selections and tactics have been woeful .. he needs to buck his ideas up. Last word, his brief appearance on TV yesterday portrayed (to my eyes) a man who is careworn and depressed. If this is so, it cannot be good for the 'dressing room' if this rather hangdog attitude is carried over in there. Come on Powell, most of us are behind you, but we need to see improvement and we need to see it soon. We have had a good run in the autumn .. why has this form and player attitude collapsed ?
Do you think the board are asking him the same questions?
A few have commented that Powell made a mistake signing Gower.
That is only a mistake, if indeed it proves to be, with hindsight. Cousins has done better than anyone could have imagined and Stephens seems to have shaken off the lethargy that frequently afflicted him. Gower would almost certainly have had a role to play if neither of those things had happened. As for signing Hughes he was instrumental in our good run at the end of last season and most people on this forum wanted him to be offered another year.
Can someone from the Powell love-in camp PLEASE explain his tactics today. Pritchard playing as the lone striker......??? what was that all about. Yes CP has done brilliantly over the last 3 years - got us promoted out of League 1and kept us up last season without spending hardly any money. However, its times like these that cream rises to the top, and today shows that CP has lost the plot.
Powell Out - Like.
Derby play 4-1-4-1, with three central midfielders. Pritchard was the third central midfielder up against John Eustace who sits in front of the B4, with the remit to support Kermorgant the lone CF. When Derby had the ball, we had to stop them playing out of the defensive third, which was a key to their 5-1 against Blackpool, which we did for half-hour using 5 across midfield, until the deflected goal. At the time of the goal, they had resorted to playing long balls up to Chris Martin, who was falling over to try and win free kicks, with no short passing combination play through midfield whatsoever. Goals change matches.
IMO, the main issue was the team selection. Pritchard isn't good enough to play that role. Kermorgant isn't good enough to play as lone CF at Championship level and Green hasn't the pace to play right midfield at this level. Church would have caused more problems running in behind, with Stephens in behind to provide the service. (see preview thread).
IMO he got the initial tactics right, but was too slow to change the personnel. ( whats wrong with half- time ?).
When you choose your tactics, you have to take into account how the opposition are set up, you can't go in with 2 v 3 in Cent Mid unless you have 2 top class players.
I can see the benefits of a change of manager, but he will need proper backing to change the personnel, unless he has a magic wand,. Otherwise there is no point. I'm more concerned that Cousins may be sold during the window, to allow the owners to recoup some dough.
We need new ideas soon - the players are not responding to him .
Even as a supporter of him, I understand some of the frustrations and criticism, but this I just don't get Andy. Ive admittedly not seen every game, but I've yet to come away from a game in the last weeks feeling the players weren't putting it in, going through the motions, that there was a clear disharmony. Breaking this lack of goals issue is clearly a major problem, but the effort and unity is clearly there In my opinion.
Agree, AFKA.
So, Andy, bring in a new manager ( costing the owners money) , but still fail to give him funds to invest in the squad as there isn't any ?
Do you seriously think that "SCP's players" ( who it's well known have huge respect for him) would immediately respond to the newbie, whilst still being no clearer as to their future after June ?
Wouldn't it be more sensible to spend said money on allowing him to bring in at least a couple of new players to strengthen the squad and/or agree new contracts with the likes of Wiggins & Stephens ?
Answers on a pc , please !
I never said change the manager... I said the players weren't responding. You need to stop loving the boss, the club is more important. I don't think he has enough experience for this situation, but I have never said sack him. I might soon!!!
I'll love who I like, Andy !
You're allowed! You can still love him when he's not the manager as well, though.
Can someone from the Powell love-in camp PLEASE explain his tactics today. Pritchard playing as the lone striker......??? what was that all about. Yes CP has done brilliantly over the last 3 years - got us promoted out of League 1and kept us up last season without spending hardly any money. However, its times like these that cream rises to the top, and today shows that CP has lost the plot.
Powell Out - Like.
Pritchard playing as the lone striker? Wtf?? What game were you at? We played a 4411 with Pritchard playing in the advanced midfield role behind Kermorgant. We won the midfield, which we needed to.
Man alive, I hope you're on a wind up because if you seriously think Pritchard was playing as a lone striker it doesn't fill me with confidence your judgement of Powell's abilities is worth much.
Not gonna copy and paste AFKA's post but you only need to look at Palace to see the difference a new manager can make with the same bunch of players. New training ideas, better tactics, better motivation etc etc can make a big difference. Even Chamakh has three in four games now. As for who would take it on? There are plenty out there who would give it a go, people out of work, wanting to earn a wage, wanting to either get back in management or start out in management. I'm not advocating a change but CP needs to buck up his ideas in my opinion.
Let's see where they are at the end of the season shall we. You'd expect things to pick up in the first couple of games, and let's face it they've played two fellow relegation candidates at home. They didn't win yesterday and I'd be amazed if they got much out of Newcastle at home or Villa and City away in their next three.
Notwithstanding, this is an exceptionally experienced manager now at their helm who's costing them a fortune. He may have them playing better as a team - let's face it, Holloway really had lost his dressing room - but he won't improve the individuals overnight. Parrish has already stated he knows he'll have to bring even more players in to survive.
Unlike us, Palace have brought in loads of players since their promotion. I'd like to see Powell given the money to strengthen too - Palace may have lost Zaha and Murray, but they didn't limit Holloway to living with it. Powell's been asked to shop only from the bargain bin on the way out of the supermarket - if he had a freer hand I have no doubt he'd significantly improve on our position. Why? Because he's done it before. Even last season with limited backing to bring in Fuller and Obika he got us to 9th.
At our core we're the same squad we were in League One with a couple of poor quality Championship plasters over the top. If we stay up he will have overachieved in my view.
Can someone from the Powell love-in camp PLEASE explain his tactics today. Pritchard playing as the lone striker......??? what was that all about. Yes CP has done brilliantly over the last 3 years - got us promoted out of League 1and kept us up last season without spending hardly any money. However, its times like these that cream rises to the top, and today shows that CP has lost the plot.
Powell Out - Like.
Derby play 4-1-4-1, with three central midfielders. Pritchard was the third central midfielder up against John Eustace who sits in front of the B4, with the remit to support Kermorgant the lone CF. When Derby had the ball, we had to stop them playing out of the defensive third, which was a key to their 5-1 against Blackpool, which we did for half-hour using 5 across midfield, until the deflected goal. At the time of the goal, they had resorted to playing long balls up to Chris Martin, who was falling over to try and win free kicks, with no short passing combination play through midfield whatsoever. Goals change matches.
IMO, the main issue was the team selection. Pritchard isn't good enough to play that role. Kermorgant isn't good enough to play as lone CF at Championship level and Green hasn't the pace to play right midfield at this level. Church would have caused more problems running in behind, with Stephens in behind to provide the service. (see preview thread).
IMO he got the initial tactics right, but was too slow to change the personnel. ( whats wrong with half- time ?).
When you choose your tactics, you have to take into account how the opposition are set up, you can't go in with 2 v 3 in Cent Mid unless you have 2 top class players.
I can see the benefits of a change of manager, but he will need proper backing to change the personnel, unless he has a magic wand,. Otherwise there is no point. I'm more concerned that Cousins may be sold during the window, to allow the owners to recoup some dough.
If there is money to support any change in personnel in the window then why not use it to support Powell and strengthen the options up front. Looks a far safer bet to put on a band aid or two now rather than go for a multiple organ transplant?!
I have maintained for six months that the cost of an early fix is buttons compared to trying to put the wheels back on.
We need 100% support and some indication from the board about what is going on. Otherwise decisions are made out of the blue, ticket sales decline and we are back into a nasty downwards spiral.
Comments
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Our club has thrived where we have provided the manager with that time and space to build their team in Seed, Lennie and Curbs. The same cannot be said where we've been quick on the trigger and we should learn that lesson. We have the right man for the job IMO, now let's not jettison him at the first sign of choppy waters.
Untrue. Huddersfield had a significantly bigger player budget than us, and scraped in through the play offs. Source: director.
Don't take my word for it people, read Mundell Fleming's excellent summary of FFP on the Trust website.
There you will learn that Charlton are actually one of minority in the division currently on target to actually comply with FFP. Then we should a factor in the advantages of clubs which have various levels of parachute money, with whom we have to compete each week. Finally, owners may choose to spend more by increasing their equity investment in the club. This lot choose not to do so. However this is important for the CP debate. If you propose to for example replace CP with Steve Clarke, well Clarke will want to know what the owners' plans for investment are. When he hears 'nothing' and then looks at the current squad, I think he will quietly say, thanks but no thanks. Steve Maclaren, on the other hand, inherited an excellent squad that was underperforming. Derby were one of the teams I saw at the Valley last year and the quality was there for all to see. But they couldn't finish us off, unlike yesterday.
If Irving and AFKA have proof that the players are all 100% behind Powell, perhaps they will share this with us all
Pritchard has been dropped recently and not even on the bench so that doesn't point to picking favourites.
Wood could come in but as we only have 3 fit CHs one of MM or DD would have to play.
And I didn't say the players were 100% behind CP. I said he hasn't lost the dressing room. That is based on seeing the effort the players are making for him. Results aren't coming but not due to the vast majority of players not putting in effort for the team or boss.
Last word, his brief appearance on TV yesterday portrayed (to my eyes) a man who is careworn and depressed. If this is so, it cannot be good for the 'dressing room' if this rather hangdog attitude is carried over in there.
Come on Powell, most of us are behind you, but we need to see improvement and we need to see it soon. We have had a good run in the autumn .. why has this form and player attitude collapsed ?
He is now manager of Bury two weeks after Barnsley sacked him. The underlying problems at Barnsley is the real issue surely. We beat them 6-0 under Flitcroft, which ought to have given their board a bit of a clue, but no, they are doing it all again, may well survive, but what then? Another new manager next Autumn?
That is only a mistake, if indeed it proves to be, with hindsight. Cousins has done better than anyone could have imagined and Stephens seems to have shaken off the lethargy that frequently afflicted him. Gower would almost certainly have had a role to play if neither of those things had happened. As for signing Hughes he was instrumental in our good run at the end of last season and most people on this forum wanted him to be offered another year.
All too easy to rewrite history.
When Derby had the ball, we had to stop them playing out of the defensive third, which was a key to their 5-1 against Blackpool, which we did for half-hour using 5 across midfield, until the deflected goal. At the time of the goal, they had resorted to playing long balls up to Chris Martin, who was falling over to try and win free kicks, with no short passing combination play through midfield whatsoever. Goals change matches.
IMO, the main issue was the team selection. Pritchard isn't good enough to play that role. Kermorgant isn't good enough to play as lone CF at Championship level and Green hasn't the pace to play right midfield at this level. Church would have caused more problems running in behind, with Stephens in behind to provide the service. (see preview thread).
IMO he got the initial tactics right, but was too slow to change the personnel. ( whats wrong with half- time ?).
When you choose your tactics, you have to take into account how the opposition are set up, you can't go in with 2 v 3 in Cent Mid unless you have 2 top class players.
I can see the benefits of a change of manager, but he will need proper backing to change the personnel, unless he has a magic wand,. Otherwise there is no point. I'm more concerned that Cousins may be sold during the window, to allow the owners to recoup some dough.
Man alive, I hope you're on a wind up because if you seriously think Pritchard was playing as a lone striker it doesn't fill me with confidence your judgement of Powell's abilities is worth much.
Notwithstanding, this is an exceptionally experienced manager now at their helm who's costing them a fortune. He may have them playing better as a team - let's face it, Holloway really had lost his dressing room - but he won't improve the individuals overnight. Parrish has already stated he knows he'll have to bring even more players in to survive.
Unlike us, Palace have brought in loads of players since their promotion. I'd like to see Powell given the money to strengthen too - Palace may have lost Zaha and Murray, but they didn't limit Holloway to living with it. Powell's been asked to shop only from the bargain bin on the way out of the supermarket - if he had a freer hand I have no doubt he'd significantly improve on our position. Why? Because he's done it before. Even last season with limited backing to bring in Fuller and Obika he got us to 9th.
At our core we're the same squad we were in League One with a couple of poor quality Championship plasters over the top. If we stay up he will have overachieved in my view.
I have maintained for six months that the cost of an early fix is buttons compared to trying to put the wheels back on.
We need 100% support and some indication from the board about what is going on. Otherwise decisions are made out of the blue, ticket sales decline and we are back into a nasty downwards spiral.