I would have thought Peacock has an input at the minute. But I'm sure there are others who for 6 months may be able to help. Paul Hart, Curbs, Alex Mcleish, Gary Megson, Paul Jewell, Paul Sturrock. The list goes on. There are a lot of experienced men out there who will come with different costs. Which one would help and which one (if any) we could afford I don't know, but I'm sure they would cost less than relegation.
dan, i dont agree with what you are saying but you at least give a better argument that most of the Powell out brigade, although there is plenty of 'whats if's'.
however, there has yet to be a sensible alternative and some people suggestions that a fresh approach might bring better results is a huge gamble.
we are in a battle and theres no better man to be in trenches with than chris powell. he cares and thats exactly what we need in our current predicament.
I appreciate your point and thanks for respecting mine.
The point that a fresh approach may not work, is a gamble, but one I would take as for me its equally a gamble to continue along the path we are on.
I have to agree with you that in a backs to the wall in the trenches scenario Powell is a great man to stand shoulder to shoulder with. My concern is that I don't feel he has the knowledge or experience for the fight. Kind of like fighting Darth Vader with a spatula.
How about maybe somebody with that experience coming in to aide Powell with the fight. In a 'director of football' role if you will. But somebody who has been in the fight and came out winning. That can help/teach Powell what we need short term whilst possibly benefitting us long term by making him a better manager/coach.
We are all looking at this as CP or A.N.Other. All of CP's coaching staff are fairly inexperienced, a small addition to this team could help.
I can't imagine Powell accepting such support nor the financiers paying for it.
Dan, my view on the 'where is your line' thing is this....
I don't know. It could be in one game, it could be in ten games, it could be never. You can never imo take a pre-conceived stance as there are simply too many variables that come into play game by game, week by week.
All i know is i have not reached it yet where i have come away from a game fuming at the manager and feeling the reason we are not doing as well as we can is due to him. That if we had John Gregory or Andy Hessenthaler in charge we would be 12th.
I like the guy, and appreciative of the service he has put into our club over a long time and think he represents our club fantastically well. But my support up until now has never been driven by any form of sentimentality, just simply that i think he has done a great job when given money, then a good job in difficult conditions, and as things stand at this exact point in time, I can't see a better alternative.
So much is made of the 100% support stuff. Some people try to twist it that collectively we are some form of Powell disciples which you know full well is absolute bollocks. 'We' just go into every game 100% behind the manager and players, I can't believe any supporter would not feel the same.
But that does not mean in anyway that the support is unconditional.
As much as it pains me - I am largely with this.
My line in the sand will not be relegation though, it will be too many more no-balls performances against anyone, let alone the likes of scum and scummer.
I would have thought Peacock has an input at the minute. But I'm sure there are others who for 6 months may be able to help. Paul Hart, Curbs, Alex Mcleish, Gary Megson, Paul Jewell, Paul Sturrock. The list goes on. There are a lot of experienced men out there who will come with different costs. Which one would help and which one (if any) we could afford I don't know, but I'm sure they would cost less than relegation.
Gary Megson? No way.
Dan, you said you thought Powell needed a more experienced coach to help him and I reminded you that he already has one. And he has the phone number for Curbs, Eriksson, Pearson and dozens of others. And Paul Hart's office is about 15 yards from Chris's
Now you are ignoring the fact that Peacock in already fulfilling the support role you said was needed and giving a list of mainly out of work managers.
Would they cost less than relegation? Certainly but as has been said we don't have that money otherwise why not let Powell spend it on the striker and defender he said he wanted to bring in on loan but wasn't allowed to. That would have been cheaper than relegation too.
What is confusing me is that you have said that it is time for Powell to go but now you seem to be saying keep Powell but give him more support. Which is essentially the viewpoint of those who you are arguing against.
Henry im not arguing with anybody. My viewpoint is for CHANGE!!! This isn't as black and white as Powell in or out. Yes I started off with it being CP that needs changing but as the conversation has gone on this idea has arisen and its not a bad one. Maybe Peacock isn't good enough at his role and he needs changing. How many of us see how much influence he or Hart or Dyer or Matthews actually have??? I sure don't. People on here criticise my views and say they lose all credibility as I don't put up an alternative. I suggest a few which 'may' be affordable and am laughed at. If I'd have said SAF is available I'd have been laughed at for suggesting something ridiculous. It seems some on here just want to pick holes in everything. As I have said, I don't have to make the decision as to what to change, I'm not the chairman of a football club and certainly am not privy to all the information needed to make that call. Neither is ANYBODY else on here as far as I'm aware. So how do we know they wont do what I suggested?
I know where you are coming from Dan, you're exploring options. Which you think seem affordable.
And that's the crux of the issue for me. If we could not afford to bring a single player in on loan on supplemented wages, how are we going to add to the coaching wage bill by bringing in another 'experienced' person.
Just a question; IF we were taken over and a few million was made available for CP to spend in Jan, but there was still no improvement, would you think it right to sack the fella then?
No changing a whole squad round in january is a bad idea
But you are now back tracking. For you it was an objective "fact" that Powell had to go but now you are saying you don't have the info to decide what change to make.
If you read back that was my point that something has to change only it was you saying it had to be Powell and me saying it was the board.
Sorry henry, didnt mean you was laughing, but some have.
The objective fact is that what we are currently doing cannot continue! Changing CP was the option I suggested, the board was what you suggested. The idea of support was then thrown into the ring and I was trying to have a discussion about whether or not its possible and if anybody liked the idea. But nobody is willing to discuss anything. Surely thats the point of a forum!
Afka, thanks for seeing my point. I agree we cant afford it as it stands, how about sordells wages paying for somebody? Some of those guys have been out of football a little while and may want to get back in. To sell us to them, what have they got to lose? If they come in and we stay up, their cv is current again, if it dont work, it weren't their fault but they have learnt about the league again in order to apply for other jobs. We are helping them out! Maybe you could get somebody with a lowish wage and bonus for survival?
I dont understand the 'powell finished 9th last season so he must be the man for the job' argument? Steve clarkes west brom finished 8th last year and that hasnt helped him
I dont understand the 'powell finished 9th last season so he must be the man for the job' argument? Steve clarkes west brom finished 8th last year and that hasnt helped him
Erm, Steve Clarke spent £13,500,000 in the summer. Chris Powell wasn't aloud to spend 13 quid.
I would have thought Peacock has an input at the minute. But I'm sure there are others who for 6 months may be able to help. Paul Hart, Curbs, Alex Mcleish, Gary Megson, Paul Jewell, Paul Sturrock. The list goes on. There are a lot of experienced men out there who will come with different costs. Which one would help and which one (if any) we could afford I don't know, but I'm sure they would cost less than relegation.
Erm, Steve Clarke spent £13,500,000 in the summer. Chris Powell wasn't aloud to spend 13 quid.
Not only has CP not spent, in the summer he had to release Fuller and Haines because of wages. The team is weaker. Also I have heard it said that we had the 17th highest wage bill last season, I wouldn't mind betting it is in line with our present league position now.
I dont understand the 'powell finished 9th last season so he must be the man for the job' argument? Steve clarkes west brom finished 8th last year and that hasnt helped him
That is assuming that you think West Brom were right to sack Clarke. Personally I don't think they were.
I have no tipping point when it comes to Powell. However long he stays in charge, he'll get my support. As with Curbs, when he was here. We had some crap seasons and plenty of them, but then we had some absolutely magic ones. Powell has given us one already and i'm sure given another 10+ years there will be more. At our level it's a waiting game. There is no divine right to success. Spurs have spent £100m+ pre-season and today sack their manager.
Get real anyone who thinks we are better than we are. We're officially an ordinary hard-up club with a very small pot to piss in.
i'd love our owners to think feck it, it's only money and throw in another £30m in January, but if it's their own money, i don't blame them if they don't.
Powell is as good as we are going to get. Nobody wants him to go. Everybody wants him to be given money to strengthen the current squad. When he does (however long that takes) i think he'll get us going in the right direction again.
100% for me and lol.
Best post so far.
I do not want a serial failure running our club - which is what most managers are these days - and certainly not in place of CP who I believe will become a very good Prem league manager one day.
I hate clubs who sack their manager at the first whiff of a problem. It is becoming a huge joke. McCarthy not good enough at Wolves and just look where that got them. The most successful club in recent history is Man Utd, who stuck with Sir Alex when things were not going so well and reaped the rewards.
If CP were making a pigs ear of everything then yes, but he clearly gets the best out of his players and is well respected throughout the game.
We may go down, I will still be going and I hope CP will still be the manager as I would rather we were battling with one of our own at the helm and not a journeyman mercenary.
We are what we are - a club with no money. Get over it and enjoy the good bits.
If people are looking for a representative sample of the fanbase perhaps this helps, albeit six months old now: The question was "CAFC have had two great seasons - What do you agree with below to push forwards?" Option 1: Give Chris Powell a contract extension to keep him at CAFC? Disagree strongly: 41 - 1.8% Disagree: 26 - 1.2% Undecided: 159 - 7.1% Agree: 416 - 18.6% Strongly agree:1,598 - 71.3% Total sample 2,240 So 90% in favour and 3% against with random sampling from a whole range of sources
And for those wondering, if we filter for those 763 fans on the survey who use Charlton Life then the percentages are slightly more in favour of SCP.
I have seen many interesting posts on this thread and would like to throw in an additional observation - man for man and pound for pound (the playing budget is down by c. £1.5M) I believe that this squad today is actually stronger BUT this time round no Solly, no Kermorgant after Watford away and NO COVER. This time last year we had Hulse and Fuller plus a couple of loans but now we have Stephens and Cousins together with Stewart and Harriot plus all the squad midfielders. Possibly the best midfield we have seen for a few years? Others have made observations about what the bigger picture may or may not be. I will re-read these contributions and have a think. We are facing a very trying time and need to unite behind the team - every player I have seen at numerous supporter branch evenings has said the same thing - that night vs Cardiff the crowd made a difference!
It's pretty laughable that we're a third of the way through a season on the back of two brilliant seasons and some fans want the manager sacked as a result!
It's pretty laughable that we're a third of the way through a season on the back of two brilliant seasons and some fans want the manager sacked as a result!
What is Sordell costing us. Could zero, could be 3k pw. I was told zero but not from a reliable source.
But if we can send Sordell back woukd you rather spend any money saved on Obika or Megson?
Megson for me certainly isn't the answer, but neither do I feel that the addition of one forward would be. Granted Obika may come in score goals and earn us a few points on his own, but we haven't been creating too many chances for the forwards we have at the minute so there no guarantee that would happen.
I do feel the confidence based problem is a lot deeper. The players seem to lack it, especially if we go behind in a game. Also, recently I feel CP has lost some in his own ability. No longer in his interviews does he talk about how we WILL turn this round, all he says is that we tried hard and were unlucky. I'd say for a month or so now, he has looked like a defeated man.
What is Sordell costing us. Could zero, could be 3k pw. I was told zero but not from a reliable source.
But if we can send Sordell back woukd you rather spend any money saved on Obika or Megson?
Megson for me certainly isn't the answer, but neither do I feel that the addition of one forward would be. Granted Obika may come in score goals and earn us a few points on his own, but we haven't been creating too many chances for the forwards we have at the minute so there no guarantee that would happen.
I do feel the confidence based problem is a lot deeper. The players seem to lack it, especially if we go behind in a game. Also, recently I feel CP has lost some in his own ability. No longer in his interviews does he talk about how we WILL turn this round, all he says is that we tried hard and were unlucky. I'd say for a month or so now, he has looked like a defeated man.
You know, the last 5 games we've had as many shots as the opposition, and only 3 fewer shots on target. It's about margins I think, as the Derby and Reading games in particular proved - we were a finish or two away from getting results in both of those games.
Last season we had Fuller, Haynes and latterly Obika who were able to take chances even when they were at a premium. It becomes all the more important when the rest of the team aren't contributing as much. We're weaker up front, by some distance - those three would have taken several of the chances that Church has fluffed.
And if those chances had been taken, we might be sitting comfortably in mid-table and no-one other than the usual suspects would even be discussing Powell's future. On Saturday the BBC commentator talked about our good approach play but no end product. I think he's hit the nail on the head - a decent team, but no cutting edge.
One thing to point out is that we're not even in the bottom three, let alone cut adrift. The table is very tight and even a win and a draw would likely move us up a few places. Circumstances are clearly more difficult now but CP got us out of more than one rut last season, so I have to believe he can do it again. It might be as simple as the return to fitness of Solly and Wood (and Yann, I would say!) gives us enough to rise above teams like Doncaster and Bournemouth. Their recent game time suggests they are being prepared for returns to the first team.
I have no tipping point when it comes to Powell. However long he stays in charge, he'll get my support. As with Curbs, when he was here. We had some crap seasons and plenty of them, but then we had some absolutely magic ones. Powell has given us one already and i'm sure given another 10+ years there will be more. At our level it's a waiting game. There is no divine right to success. Spurs have spent £100m+ pre-season and today sack their manager.
Get real anyone who thinks we are better than we are. We're officially an ordinary hard-up club with a very small pot to piss in.
i'd love our owners to think feck it, it's only money and throw in another £30m in January, but if it's their own money, i don't blame them if they don't.
Powell is as good as we are going to get. Nobody wants him to go. Everybody wants him to be given money to strengthen the current squad. When he does (however long that takes) i think he'll get us going in the right direction again.
100% for me and lol.
Best post so far.
I do not want a serial failure running our club - which is what most managers are these days - and certainly not in place of CP who I believe will become a very good Prem league manager one day.
I hate clubs who sack their manager at the first whiff of a problem. It is becoming a huge joke. McCarthy not good enough at Wolves and just look where that got them. The most successful club in recent history is Man Utd, who stuck with Sir Alex when things were not going so well and reaped the rewards.
If CP were making a pigs ear of everything then yes, but he clearly gets the best out of his players and is well respected throughout the game.
We may go down, I will still be going and I hope CP will still be the manager as I would rather we were battling with one of our own at the helm and not a journeyman mercenary.
We are what we are - a club with no money. Get over it and enjoy the good bits.
What did all those naysayers of SCP say in the post match thread ........
Of course they're entitled to their opinion and people do understand where they're coming from cos we haven't been at the races on occasions and obviously SCP is not perfect but IMO he's trying to make do with a limited squad , that team against Bolton and Brighton is our best 11 and Solly and Kermo ,our two best players , have not been fit
But the silence is deafening when we win but if we mess up against Wednesday they'll all crawl out of the woodwork again And of course one swallow doesn't make a summer But it appears with some they don't wanna take the smooth with the rough !!!!!
Comments
My line in the sand will not be relegation though, it will be too many more no-balls performances against anyone, let alone the likes of scum and scummer.
Dan, you said you thought Powell needed a more experienced coach to help him and I reminded you that he already has one. And he has the phone number for Curbs, Eriksson, Pearson and dozens of others. And Paul Hart's office is about 15 yards from Chris's
Now you are ignoring the fact that Peacock in already fulfilling the support role you said was needed and giving a list of mainly out of work managers.
Would they cost less than relegation? Certainly but as has been said we don't have that money otherwise why not let Powell spend it on the striker and defender he said he wanted to bring in on loan but wasn't allowed to. That would have been cheaper than relegation too.
What is confusing me is that you have said that it is time for Powell to go but now you seem to be saying keep Powell but give him more support. Which is essentially the viewpoint of those who you are arguing against.
Maybe Peacock isn't good enough at his role and he needs changing. How many of us see how much influence he or Hart or Dyer or Matthews actually have??? I sure don't.
People on here criticise my views and say they lose all credibility as I don't put up an alternative. I suggest a few which 'may' be affordable and am laughed at. If I'd have said SAF is available I'd have been laughed at for suggesting something ridiculous. It seems some on here just want to pick holes in everything.
As I have said, I don't have to make the decision as to what to change, I'm not the chairman of a football club and certainly am not privy to all the information needed to make that call. Neither is ANYBODY else on here as far as I'm aware. So how do we know they wont do what I suggested?
And that's the crux of the issue for me. If we could not afford to bring a single player in on loan on supplemented wages, how are we going to add to the coaching wage bill by bringing in another 'experienced' person.
Experienced people dont do things for nowt.
But you are now back tracking. For you it was an objective "fact" that Powell had to go but now you are saying you don't have the info to decide what change to make.
If you read back that was my point that something has to change only it was you saying it had to be Powell and me saying it was the board.
The objective fact is that what we are currently doing cannot continue! Changing CP was the option I suggested, the board was what you suggested. The idea of support was then thrown into the ring and I was trying to have a discussion about whether or not its possible and if anybody liked the idea. But nobody is willing to discuss anything. Surely thats the point of a forum!
Afka, thanks for seeing my point. I agree we cant afford it as it stands, how about sordells wages paying for somebody? Some of those guys have been out of football a little while and may want to get back in. To sell us to them, what have they got to lose? If they come in and we stay up, their cv is current again, if it dont work, it weren't their fault but they have learnt about the league again in order to apply for other jobs. We are helping them out! Maybe you could get somebody with a lowish wage and bonus for survival?
Erm, Steve Clarke spent £13,500,000 in the summer. Chris Powell wasn't aloud to spend 13 quid.
13.5 mil is equivalent to 13 quid compared to the other teams spending
What is Sordell costing us. Could zero, could be 3k pw. I was told zero but not from a reliable source.
But if we can send Sordell back woukd you rather spend any money saved on Obika or Megson?
I do not want a serial failure running our club - which is what most managers are these days - and certainly not in place of CP who I believe will become a very good Prem league manager one day.
I hate clubs who sack their manager at the first whiff of a problem. It is becoming a huge joke. McCarthy not good enough at Wolves and just look where that got them. The most successful club in recent history is Man Utd, who stuck with Sir Alex when things were not going so well and reaped the rewards.
If CP were making a pigs ear of everything then yes, but he clearly gets the best out of his players and is well respected throughout the game.
We may go down, I will still be going and I hope CP will still be the manager as I would rather we were battling with one of our own at the helm and not a journeyman mercenary.
We are what we are - a club with no money. Get over it and enjoy the good bits.
10 year contract - what a good idea.
The question was "CAFC have had two great seasons - What do you agree with below to push forwards?"
Option 1: Give Chris Powell a contract extension to keep him at CAFC?
Disagree strongly: 41 - 1.8%
Disagree: 26 - 1.2%
Undecided: 159 - 7.1%
Agree: 416 - 18.6%
Strongly agree:1,598 - 71.3%
Total sample 2,240
So 90% in favour and 3% against with random sampling from a whole range of sources
And for those wondering, if we filter for those 763 fans on the survey who use Charlton Life then the percentages are slightly more in favour of SCP.
I have seen many interesting posts on this thread and would like to throw in an additional observation - man for man and pound for pound (the playing budget is down by c. £1.5M) I believe that this squad today is actually stronger BUT this time round no Solly, no Kermorgant after Watford away and NO COVER. This time last year we had Hulse and Fuller plus a couple of loans but now we have Stephens and Cousins together with Stewart and Harriot plus all the squad midfielders. Possibly the best midfield we have seen for a few years?
Others have made observations about what the bigger picture may or may not be. I will re-read these contributions and have a think. We are facing a very trying time and need to unite behind the team - every player I have seen at numerous supporter branch evenings has said the same thing - that night vs Cardiff the crowd made a difference!
Where's the patience?!
If we go down with a random manager we'll stay down with a random manager.
I do feel the confidence based problem is a lot deeper. The players seem to lack it, especially if we go behind in a game. Also, recently I feel CP has lost some in his own ability. No longer in his interviews does he talk about how we WILL turn this round, all he says is that we tried hard and were unlucky. I'd say for a month or so now, he has looked like a defeated man.
Last season we had Fuller, Haynes and latterly Obika who were able to take chances even when they were at a premium. It becomes all the more important when the rest of the team aren't contributing as much. We're weaker up front, by some distance - those three would have taken several of the chances that Church has fluffed.
And if those chances had been taken, we might be sitting comfortably in mid-table and no-one other than the usual suspects would even be discussing Powell's future. On Saturday the BBC commentator talked about our good approach play but no end product. I think he's hit the nail on the head - a decent team, but no cutting edge.
Of course they're entitled to their opinion and people do understand where they're coming from cos we haven't been at the races on occasions
and obviously SCP is not perfect but IMO he's trying to make do with a limited squad , that team against Bolton and Brighton is our best 11 and Solly and Kermo ,our two best players , have not been fit
But the silence is deafening when we win but if we mess up against Wednesday they'll all crawl out of the woodwork again
And of course one swallow doesn't make a summer
But it appears with some they don't wanna take the smooth with the rough !!!!!