Who is going to play the part of Alex Salmond when they make the film ? I vote, bring back Oliver Hardy, with Stan Laurel playing the part of George Osborne. Quote, this is a another fine mess you've got me into to Stanley !
I expect Alex Salmond would be recommending Mel Gibson reprising his "Braveheart" role. Here's one The Sun made earlier
In the end it's their country I suppose. Going up in October for a week, my kid brother is shredders over it. Just out of the Navy after 25 years and working for Babcocks up there. He reckons if Independence is a reality, he will be out of work in 3-4 years. Told him to join the Scottish Navy.
Think a large percentage of the yes vote is just anti English bile.
I've got a few business contacts up there and none of the ones owning their own business are for independence. They know it will ruin them.
I'm getting fed up with all the concessions the main parties are offering them to stay in the Union.
It's like begging your girlfriend to stay with you... "ok, love, stay with me and then you can go out with your friends every weekend", "dont worry, i'll pay all the bills so you can go out and party", "ok, we can have an open relationship and you can see other people, just please dont leave me.....".
We don't need them. They do need us though, but that's their problem.
I hope they leave, for me a small majority for the No vote will mean giving Scotland even more separate powers which I find unacceptable if England is not allowed the same.
The other upside of a yes Vote though will hopefully be the resignation of the conservative, labour and lib dem leaders and a delAy in the general election for 18mths
All of the policies in the Salmond "YES" manifesto can already by implemented by the existing Scottish Parliament. They have plenty of power to govern themselves already, e.g. free prescriptions, no university fees and so on.
This is just about money. They want the revenue from the oil and the tax from the whisky - but they don't want to pay for the infrastructure that has already been created by the UK to make these industries happen.
It's all very well Scotland puffing itself up about stuff from the past - but the next 50 years in Europe are going to be eventful. There is an influx of population, so food/water/land is going to be in short supply. Add to this, Russia redefining its borders every 10 minutes and the UK talking about leaving the EU, then you can see the goalposts moving in many different ways.
As an example, good old Gibraltar (who lost 7-0 to Poland yesterday) would never dream of leaving the "protection" of the UK umbrella for short term financial gain.
Scotland believes that London regularly delivers a raw deal to the Scots, so for the sake of a few quid for the next 30 years, Salmond will risk 300+ years of stability in a gamble.
He will be long gone and forgotten when the oil runs out, the whisky gets too expensive, and the population has moved across the border for a better deal.
Better together as a nation, and having our own identities within.
Most organisations look for a 2/3 vote in favour of constitutional change for just this reason! It needs a large consensus to follow through on the detail - someone has screwed up...bye bye Cameron for I can't see the Queen keeping faith in a first minister who dismantles the kingdom... Yeah I know the Queen doesn't really select the government but Camerons position looks very bad.
I see that quite a few people are sharpening the knives for Cameron in the event of a Yes vote but to be honest he can hardly be blamed for an independence movement that largely gained momentum in 1995 with the release of Mel Gibson's epic 'Braveheart' and has only continued to grow because of the myopic view held by Scots that the feckless lizards known as politicians only reside in the reptile house of Westminster and aren't in fact universally shit across the United Kingdom and much of Europe. Lets face it, the SNP only grew to the size it did in order to gain control of Holyrood and therefore force a referendum because of Labour's cack-handed administration north of the border.
Part of me feels like this is being approached like nothing more than a deciding question in a quiz show.
This has enourmous consequences, and I'm not sure a lot of people are getting that, particularly the Scots.
From some of what I have been reading the Yes people are actually using the reverse argument, they are arguing that this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for independence and that if people don't take this chance now then their children and grandchildren will never get the same opportunity again.
Certainly seems the momentum is with the Yes people - and, quite frankly, if the No people could not find anyone more inspiring than Alistair 'Horlicks' Darling to argue their case then they will only have themselves to blame if they lose.
Part of me feels like this is being approached like nothing more than a deciding question in a quiz show.
This has enourmous consequences, and I'm not sure a lot of people are getting that, particularly the Scots.
From some of what I have been reading the Yes people are actually using the reverse argument, they are arguing that this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for independence and that if people don't take this chance now then their children and grandchildren will never get the same opportunity again.
The fact that Westminster has pulled this exact same trick with the EU (i.e. now we're in by a referendum, we have had several referendum promises since broken despite the EU no longer resembling the original entity the country voted for) is probably good enough evidence that Westminster is horrible at giving generations down the line a say in matters that their grandparents sold them.
If they vote yes, I trust that they'll pay back some of the £46b that was pumped in the economy because of short-sighted business decisions made by Scotsman Fred the Shred when he purchased that Dutch bank for £47b
I hope they leave, for me a small majority for the No vote will mean giving Scotland even more separate powers which I find unacceptable if England is not allowed the same.
The other upside of a yes Vote though will hopefully be the resignation of the conservative, labour and lib dem leaders and a delAy in the general election for 18mths
Why should Scotland not get the powers it deserves just because the English can't organise themselves to get the powers they want/need ?
For me the best outcome is a small "no" majority which sees Scotland stay a part of the Union but with home rule. Federalisation of the UK is the way forward with each of the four countries having equal power over their own domestic affairs but acting jointly on foreign issues.
Can't wait for 5yrs time when the scots are bankrupt, mortgage rates are at 30% and English pound will allow us to pick up property for a fraction of the price
I hope they leave, for me a small majority for the No vote will mean giving Scotland even more separate powers which I find unacceptable if England is not allowed the same.
The other upside of a yes Vote though will hopefully be the resignation of the conservative, labour and lib dem leaders and a delAy in the general election for 18mths
Why should Scotland not get the powers it deserves just because the English can't organise themselves to get the powers they want/need ?
For me the best outcome is a small "no" majority which sees Scotland stay a part of the Union but with home rule. Federalisation of the UK is the way forward with each of the four countries having equal power over their own domestic affairs but acting jointly on foreign issues.
The worst result is a small No win in my opinion. With that we'll be having the debate again within a few years. At least a Yes or an overwhelming No will be a definitive answer.
Can't wait for 5yrs time when the scots are bankrupt, mortgage rates are at 30% and English pound will allow us to pick up property for a fraction of the price
Can't wait for 5yrs time when the scots are bankrupt, mortgage rates are at 30% and English pound will allow us to pick up property for a fraction of the price
Think it will be a disaster for them to go alone .....the rich only will survive and immigration will smother them as there borders will be open to all ...more so
Think it will be a disaster for them to go alone .....the rich only will survive and immigration will smother them as there borders will be open to all ...more so
What logic is this assumption based on ? Surely if hordes of immigrants were coming it would be because Scotland was perceived as being a better place to live than it is now, meaning independence would have worked ?
Think it will be a disaster for them to go alone .....the rich only will survive and immigration will smother them as there borders will be open to all ...more so
What logic is this assumption based on ? Surely if hordes of immigrants were coming it would be because Scotland was perceived as being a better place to live than it is now, meaning independence would have worked ?
I have a large group of Scottish friends of 30 + years standing from when we shared a house back in the day. I will see most of them Friday evening. Because they live here they don't actually have a vote, but I know some of them will be in the Yes camp. Like the one who admits he was physically sick as a kid when Scotland lost to England, and that he still supports anyone who plays against England - then he will always look at me apologetically with the message, nothing personal, you are my friend, and I always look out for Charlton...
There is no reasoning with him. I'll try on Friday, to mention that really they cannot just expect to stay in the EU. What would the Czechs and Poles who went through 10 years of accession say? Or the Croats? Or Turkey? And how about them keeping the pound, meaning that the Bank of England, a foreign country, is its central bank.? Why on earth should we agree to that with , as mentioned above, the memory of Fred the Shred still in our memory? This is the trouble with too many Scots, their self-absorption makes them deaf and blind to what the rest of the world, and their own business people, are telling them
But those of you who just say, sod em if they want to leave, are making a big mistake too. Nothing good will come of this for our country,whether you think of it as the UK or England. Of course the trouble is that even those of us who do care can do nothing, because we are not allowed a vote either in the future of the UK.
When I was at school (a long time a ago) one of the questions in my O level geography exam, was 'Explain the diffence between the British Isles, Great Britian and the United Kingdom'.
The Brtish Isles is mainly made up Island of Great Britian (England, Scotland and Wales) the Island of Ireland (Eire and Northern Ireland) and including IOW, IOM, Scilly Isle, Shetland and various other island off the coast of Scotland.
Great Britian is a large land mass which is made up the Engalnd, Scotland and Wales.
The United Kingdom is a political union made up of Great Britian, (England Scotland and Wales), Northern Ireland and including IOW, IOM, Scilly Isle, Shetland and various other island off the coast of Scotland.
Therefore there can be no break up of Great Britain as it is a land mass unless a ditch is built between England and Scotland and filled with water making Scotland a seperate island ( The Island of Scotland would still be part of the British Isles).
The British Passport is issued on behalf of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, this is not totally correct as it aslo covers all the islands stated above.
The above was the the basis of my answer and I passed with distinction (a lot of good it did me).
It is always been my gripe that teams who represent the United Kingdom are referred to as representing Great Britain and Northen Ireland, the correct name for the team should be United Kingdom.
By the way one thing that has not been mentioned, Will Scotland have a seperate entry to the Eurovision Song Contest? :-O
I thought "Britain" was just the single island containing the majority of England, Scotland and Wales whereas "Great Britain" is that Island plus the smaller surrounding islands (so Skye for instance but not the island of Ireland). I didn't think IoM was a part of the UK.
refore there can be no break up of Great Britain as it is a land mass unless a ditch is built between England and Scotland and filled with water making Scotland a seperate island
Yes please. I'd make a small donation to this project
I thought "Britain" was just the single island containing the majority of England, Scotland and Wales whereas "Great Britain" is that Island plus the smaller surrounding islands (so Skye for instance but not the island of Ireland). I didn't think IoM was a part of the UK.
Great Britain also known as Britain, is an island in the North Atlantic off the north-west coast of continental Europe. The island has an area of 229,848 km2 (88,745 sq mi), and is the largest island of the British Isles,
IOM Sports persons represent GB at the Olmpics etc
The Kingdom of Great Britain resulted from the union of the kingdoms of England (comprising modern-day England and Wales) and Scotland in 1707. Subsequently, in 1801, the Kingdom of Great Britain united with the neighbouring Kingdom of Ireland forming the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. When five-sixths of Ireland seceded from the United Kingdom in 1922, the state was renamed the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
You are correct along with the Channels Isles, the IOM is not part of the UK
I thought "Britain" was just the single island containing the majority of England, Scotland and Wales whereas "Great Britain" is that Island plus the smaller surrounding islands (so Skye for instance but not the island of Ireland). I didn't think IoM was a part of the UK.
Great Britain also known as Britain, is an island in the North Atlantic off the north-west coast of continental Europe. The island has an area of 229,848 km2 (88,745 sq mi), and is the largest island of the British Isles,
IOM Sports persons represent GB at the Olmpics etc
Just checked and IoM isn't part of the UK but the UK is responsible for its external affairs including defence.
If the polls are accurate then I expect a 'yes' majority. When the pencil hovers above the paper the emotional, half thought through, influenced, populist force will prevail. Like it does for UKIP, or Boris. If the 'braveheart', 'highland clearances', 'flower of Scotland', 'what are you afraid of?', 'emotional' imperative is floating around in the mind of people at the moment they are in the booth with the paper and pencil, then very many will say sod it and vote yes whatever the practical and logical ins and outs are. Alex, Nigel and Boris could be pictured eating baby sandwiches and they would still get elected in this x-factor age. Yes or no is not now the question, it is the narrowness that is going to override everything once the votes are counted...in my view it is going to run and run.
I hope they leave, for me a small majority for the No vote will mean giving Scotland even more separate powers which I find unacceptable if England is not allowed the same.
The other upside of a yes Vote though will hopefully be the resignation of the conservative, labour and lib dem leaders and a delAy in the general election for 18mths
Why should Scotland not get the powers it deserves just because the English can't organise themselves to get the powers they want/need ?
For me the best outcome is a small "no" majority which sees Scotland stay a part of the Union but with home rule. Federalisation of the UK is the way forward with each of the four countries having equal power over their own domestic affairs but acting jointly on foreign issues.
So each of the "other" countries still can't pay for themselves so the tab for free prescriptions, university education, infrastructure and benefits is still picked up by England. For me the decision is feel free to go but don't stick your hand out for any money.
Comments
Here's one The Sun made earlier
In the end it's their country I suppose. Going up in October for a week, my kid brother is shredders over it. Just out of the Navy after 25 years and working for Babcocks up there. He reckons if Independence is a reality, he will be out of work in 3-4 years. Told him to join the Scottish Navy.
Think a large percentage of the yes vote is just anti English bile.
I've got a few business contacts up there and none of the ones owning their own business are for independence. They know it will ruin them.
I'm getting fed up with all the concessions the main parties are offering them to stay in the Union.
It's like begging your girlfriend to stay with you... "ok, love, stay with me and then you can go out with your friends every weekend", "dont worry, i'll pay all the bills so you can go out and party", "ok, we can have an open relationship and you can see other people, just please dont leave me.....".
We don't need them. They do need us though, but that's their problem.
The other upside of a yes Vote though will hopefully be the resignation of the conservative, labour and lib dem leaders and a delAy in the general election for 18mths
This is just about money.
They want the revenue from the oil and the tax from the whisky - but they don't want to pay for the infrastructure that has already been created by the UK to make these industries happen.
It's all very well Scotland puffing itself up about stuff from the past - but the next 50 years in Europe are going to be eventful. There is an influx of population, so food/water/land is going to be in short supply. Add to this, Russia redefining its borders every 10 minutes and the UK talking about leaving the EU, then you can see the goalposts moving in many different ways.
As an example, good old Gibraltar (who lost 7-0 to Poland yesterday) would never dream of leaving the "protection" of the UK umbrella for short term financial gain.
Scotland believes that London regularly delivers a raw deal to the Scots, so for the sake of a few quid for the next 30 years, Salmond will risk 300+ years of stability in a gamble.
He will be long gone and forgotten when the oil runs out, the whisky gets too expensive, and the population has moved across the border for a better deal.
Better together as a nation, and having our own identities within.
Certainly seems the momentum is with the Yes people - and, quite frankly, if the No people could not find anyone more inspiring than Alistair 'Horlicks' Darling to argue their case then they will only have themselves to blame if they lose.
For me the best outcome is a small "no" majority which sees Scotland stay a part of the Union but with home rule. Federalisation of the UK is the way forward with each of the four countries having equal power over their own domestic affairs but acting jointly on foreign issues.
Alex salmon or whatever his name is just annoys me
Can't wait for it to all be over its taking far too long and far too much time on the telly box
Here's a 5 bed semi with loch views: rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-31249806.html
I have a large group of Scottish friends of 30 + years standing from when we shared a house back in the day. I will see most of them Friday evening. Because they live here they don't actually have a vote, but I know some of them will be in the Yes camp. Like the one who admits he was physically sick as a kid when Scotland lost to England, and that he still supports anyone who plays against England - then he will always look at me apologetically with the message, nothing personal, you are my friend, and I always look out for Charlton...
There is no reasoning with him. I'll try on Friday, to mention that really they cannot just expect to stay in the EU. What would the Czechs and Poles who went through 10 years of accession say? Or the Croats? Or Turkey? And how about them keeping the pound, meaning that the Bank of England, a foreign country, is its central bank.? Why on earth should we agree to that with , as mentioned above, the memory of Fred the Shred still in our memory? This is the trouble with too many Scots, their self-absorption makes them deaf and blind to what the rest of the world, and their own business people, are telling them
But those of you who just say, sod em if they want to leave, are making a big mistake too. Nothing good will come of this for our country,whether you think of it as the UK or England. Of course the trouble is that even those of us who do care can do nothing, because we are not allowed a vote either in the future of the UK.
When I was at school (a long time a ago) one of the questions in my O level geography exam, was 'Explain the diffence between the British Isles, Great Britian and the United Kingdom'.
The Brtish Isles is mainly made up Island of Great Britian (England, Scotland and Wales) the Island of Ireland (Eire and Northern Ireland) and including IOW, IOM, Scilly Isle, Shetland and various other island off the coast of Scotland.
Great Britian is a large land mass which is made up the Engalnd, Scotland and Wales.
The United Kingdom is a political union made up of Great Britian, (England Scotland and Wales), Northern Ireland and including IOW, IOM, Scilly Isle, Shetland and various other island off the coast of Scotland.
Therefore there can be no break up of Great Britain as it is a land mass unless a ditch is built between England and Scotland and filled with water making Scotland a seperate island ( The Island of Scotland would still be part of the British Isles).
The British Passport is issued on behalf of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, this is not totally correct as it aslo covers all the islands stated above.
The above was the the basis of my answer and I passed with distinction (a lot of good it did me).
It is always been my gripe that teams who represent the United Kingdom are referred to as representing Great Britain and Northen Ireland, the correct name for the team should be United Kingdom.
By the way one thing that has not been mentioned, Will Scotland have a seperate entry to the Eurovision Song Contest? :-O
Yes please. I'd make a small donation to this project
IOM Sports persons represent GB at the Olmpics etc
You are correct along with the Channels Isles, the IOM is not part of the UK
If the 'braveheart', 'highland clearances', 'flower of Scotland', 'what are you afraid of?', 'emotional' imperative is floating around in the mind of people at the moment they are in the booth with the paper and pencil, then very many will say sod it and vote yes whatever the practical and logical ins and outs are.
Alex, Nigel and Boris could be pictured eating baby sandwiches and they would still get elected in this x-factor age.
Yes or no is not now the question, it is the narrowness that is going to override everything once the votes are counted...in my view it is going to run and run.