Perhaps, naively, I found the quote from Slater at the end of the SLP piece the most interesting. He said: "I am unable to comment on this matter". He's a lawyer and as we all know, he uses words carefully. He did not say either "there's nothing to the story" or "no comment". He said he was unable (my emphasis) to comment on this matter. To me, that indicates that, first, there is indeed "a matter" he can't talk about and second, that there was something precluding him from talking about it. That must surely be that a deal is under discussion and the terms of the negotiations mean that he cannot talk about either those negotiations or disclose the prospective buyer's identity until such time that any transfer of interests is successfully concluded. (If the talks fail, I'd expect that he'll still be precluded from revealing any explicit information.)
But if he wanted to put this story out there to tempt in a buyer he would say that wouldn't he? It is the club that is feeding the news to the paper, not the other way round, they can put as much spin on it as they want.
Lets suppose it is a leaked story to tempt in a bidder and nothing comes of it. The club informs the SLP in a few weeks that "neither party could agree to terms" or "they seemed serious at the time but sadly did not have the funds"
The spin is endless if they want to play it that way.
I suspect they do particularly if a backer has put pressure on for a return of investment??
DD can be as expensive as you want to make it. The numbers that are being banded around i.e. £18 - £20 million are small in business terms so a couple of good accountants from a perspective buyer looking at the books for a week or two plus a Chief Exec and a Director looking at other areas of the business should reveal enough to make a decision to move forward or pull out.
If however any perspective buyer wants to use an agency to carry out the DD you are into mega fees.
Are you suggesting that the level of effort/experience put into a DD indicates the resources that a company has ?
It must be a guide - if you are a small business you will do a fair amount of the work yourself with the assistance of your accountant and your lawyer. Big business will have huge in house legal and financial people on board but they will always want an external set of eyes on the DD so as to demonstrate to the shareholders that they took all necessary precautions .... and to blame somebody else if it subsequently went pear shaped!
If a seriously wealthy investor/company is looking at buying us out, moving us forward for promotion and looking at a mega million development on the peninsula, then why would they be so concerend about the odd million or two that has been 'hidden' somewherer within the books?
A couple of million here or there within the deal is nothing if the numbers being talked about are serious - unless they really need to screw every penny out of the deal.
Sorry m8 but in business major commercial entities do worry and make sure they concern themselves with the odd million because that's why they have become major commercial entities.
In a nutshell they always endeavour to evaluate 'the price' and use their muscle to achieve it. They very clearly understand the value of money.
Hope above comments are of use!
I understand what you and Prague are saying - but this isn't a major commerical business we're talking about. It's a Football Club.
Yes, they need to know about profit/loss, players contracts, contingent liabilities amongst others; but if you're talking about investing in new players and players contracts, developing a new stadium on the peninsula and investing to sustain a premier league place, £2/£3m is basically f/all in the grand scheme of things.
You can save that in negotiating well for just one players contract - or you could persuade a buying club to spend that much more on one of your players.
Do you think a conglomerate who are looking to take us over are significantly worried about paying off RMs £800k overdraft and that is one of the reasons to hold up a sale?
Because if it is, then I fear our new owners may not be quite as minted as we're hoping for.
I would also suggest that anyone who invests in a Championship Football Club clearyl doesn't know the value of money.
It must be a guide - if you are a small business you will do a fair amount of the work yourself with the assistance of your accountant and your lawyer. Big business will have huge in house legal and financial people on board but they will always want an external set of eyes on the DD so as to demonstrate to the shareholders that they took all necessary precautions .... and to blame somebody else if it subsequently went pear shaped!
Perhaps if you are buying from someone like TJ then having somebody to blame could be quite useful!
If a seriously wealthy investor/company is looking at buying us out, moving us forward for promotion and looking at a mega million development on the peninsula, then why would they be so concerend about the odd million or two that has been 'hidden' somewherer within the books?
A couple of million here or there within the deal is nothing if the numbers being talked about are serious - unless they really need to screw every penny out of the deal.
Sorry m8 but in business major commercial entities do worry and make sure they concern themselves with the odd million because that's why they have become major commercial entities.
In a nutshell they always endeavour to evaluate 'the price' and use their muscle to achieve it. They very clearly understand the value of money.
Hope above comments are of use!
I understand what you and Prague are saying - but this isn't a major commerical business we're talking about. It's a Football Club.
Yes, they need to know about profit/loss, players contracts, contingent liabilities amongst others; but if you're talking about investing in new players and players contracts, developing a new stadium on the peninsula and investing to sustain a premier league place, £2/£3m is basically f/all in the grand scheme of things.
You can save that in negotiating well for just one players contract - or you could persuade a buying club to spend that much more on one of your players.
Do you think a conglomerate who are looking to take us over are significantly worried about paying off RMs £800k overdraft and that is one of the reasons to hold up a sale?
Because if it is, then I fear our new owners may not be quite as minted as we're hoping for.
I would also suggest that anyone who invests in a Championship Football Club clearyl doesn't know the value of money.
An extreme example of the perils of not doing adequate due diligence is the purchase of B of Scotland by Lloyd's TSB.
Allegedly Gordon invited Victor Blank to Sunday lunch at Chequers and asked for LTSB to buy BofS which would give them a huge presence in the high street. The rub was that the government of the day would not refer it to the Monopolies Commission or whatever it is now called.
It is said that they only did 10% of their normal DD given the time limit set by GB and the price they paid for their failure was to take over the liability for a horrendous loan book which rapidly saw this cautious bank being bailed out by you and me!
Although we are only a tier 2 football club, we have an 'interesting' ownership structure which would need to be fully understood plus employee contracts and property rights etc. We may well have other skeletons in the cupboard which DD would seek to uncover.
It must be a guide - if you are a small business you will do a fair amount of the work yourself with the assistance of your accountant and your lawyer. Big business will have huge in house legal and financial people on board but they will always want an external set of eyes on the DD so as to demonstrate to the shareholders that they took all necessary precautions .... and to blame somebody else if it subsequently went pear shaped!
Perhaps if you are buying from someone like TJ then having somebody to blame could be quite useful!
If you are the CFO it would be an imperative if you like your job and the huge rewards on offer ;-))
If a seriously wealthy investor/company is looking at buying us out, moving us forward for promotion and looking at a mega million development on the peninsula, then why would they be so concerend about the odd million or two that has been 'hidden' somewherer within the books?
A couple of million here or there within the deal is nothing if the numbers being talked about are serious - unless they really need to screw every penny out of the deal.
Sorry m8 but in business major commercial entities do worry and make sure they concern themselves with the odd million because that's why they have become major commercial entities.
In a nutshell they always endeavour to evaluate 'the price' and use their muscle to achieve it. They very clearly understand the value of money.
Hope above comments are of use!
I understand what you and Prague are saying - but this isn't a major commerical business we're talking about. It's a Football Club.
Yes, they need to know about profit/loss, players contracts, contingent liabilities amongst others; but if you're talking about investing in new players and players contracts, developing a new stadium on the peninsula and investing to sustain a premier league place, £2/£3m is basically f/all in the grand scheme of things.
You can save that in negotiating well for just one players contract - or you could persuade a buying club to spend that much more on one of your players.
Do you think a conglomerate who are looking to take us over are significantly worried about paying off RMs £800k overdraft and that is one of the reasons to hold up a sale?
Because if it is, then I fear our new owners may not be quite as minted as we're hoping for.
I would also suggest that anyone who invests in a Championship Football Club clearyl doesn't know the value of money.
An extreme example of the perils of not doing adequate due diligence is the purchase of B of ScotlandHBoS by Lloyd's TSB.
Allegedly Gordon invited Victor Blank to Sunday lunch at Chequers and asked for LTSB to buy BofSHBoS which would give them a huge presence in the high street. The rub was that the government of the day would not refer it to the Monopolies Commission or whatever it is now called.
It is said that they only did 10% of their normal DD given the time limit set by GB and the price they paid for their failure was to take over the liability for a horrendous loan book which rapidly saw this cautious bank being bailed out by you and me!
Although we are only a tier 2 football club, we have an 'interesting' ownership structure which would need to be fully understood plus employee contracts and property rights etc. We may well have other skeletons in the cupboard which DD would seek to uncover.
DD can be as expensive as you want to make it. The numbers that are being banded around i.e. £18 - £20 million are small in business terms so a couple of good accountants from a perspective buyer looking at the books for a week or two plus a Chief Exec and a Director looking at other areas of the business should reveal enough to make a decision to move forward or pull out.
If however any perspective buyer wants to use an agency to carry out the DD you are into mega fees.
Are you suggesting that the level of effort/experience put into a DD indicates the resources that a company has ?
No not at all, but as most have already said on here its a football club being sold for less than £20 million, not a national or international business that employs thousands of staff.
There are clued up people on this site that have already picked apart the loans that need to be repaid and the finances on The Valley. A good but small team of experts would get DD done in no time without the need for huge fees to outside consultants.
When I lived in Greenwich back in the day, the paper of choice for Charlton news and rumour was the South East London Mercury. You wouldn't have wrapped your chips in the SLP. It was a Nigel rag back then. What happened to the Mercury?
If we are being taken over I will eat my season ticket (last years)!
All part of some cynical ruse.
Doom mongrel !
You PJW1 now will have the perfect opportunity to say 'I told you so' if things by some horrible turn of fate go belly up.
If the take over does go ahead, I will look forward to the posted film on the thread of you eating last years season ticket (with smile on face ) !
Was really pleased when I read the original post and want it to be true - however the more you examine this for what it is the more it looks like a cynical plant intended to draw out a buyer or speed things along.
Think our current owners have done some good at the club - also think they as near as dammit brought a football club on a whim and don't give a toss about us as fans.
Just because I want something to be true doesn't make it true.
That said I will be consulting Jamie's 15 min Season meals and no one will be better pleased than me if I have to eat plastic!
Talking of Jamie there is another annoying celebrity!
When I lived in Greenwich back in the day, the paper of choice for Charlton news and rumour was the South East London Mercury. You wouldn't have wrapped your chips in the SLP. It was a Nigel rag back then. What happened to the Mercury?
If we are being taken over I will eat my season ticket (last years)!
All part of some cynical ruse.
Doom mongrel !
You PJW1 now will have the perfect opportunity to say 'I told you so' if things by some horrible turn of fate go belly up.
If the take over does go ahead, I will look forward to the posted film on the thread of you eating last years season ticket (with smile on face ) !
Was really pleased when I read the original post and want it to be true - however the more you examine this for what it is the more it looks like a cynical plant intended to draw out a buyer or speed things along.
Think our current owners have done some good at the club - also think they as near as dammit brought a football club on a whim and don't give a toss about us as fans.
Just because I want something to be true doesn't make it true.
That said I will be consulting Jamie's 15 min Season meals and no one will be better pleased than me if I have to eat plastic!
Talking of Jamie there is another annoying celebrity!
The takeover is a long time arriving (and not just the current one). I want it to happen (if it is good for the club) and that's not just to see you eat last season tickets ticket ! (no pulling out the games tickets for the games that you missed). I feel that I have endured enough pain as a Charlton supporter over the last few seasons and I am ready to enjoy some good times. It would be really good to have some decent owners who we can trust.
I am trying to see my glass half full at the moment regarding current takeover events and remain positive. It is better than being a miserable, the end of the world is nigh, merchant. in any case, I tend to use all those worries for when we are 2 goals or 3 goals up and there is 5 minutes to go to the final whistle !
When I lived in Greenwich back in the day, the paper of choice for Charlton news and rumour was the South East London Mercury. You wouldn't have wrapped your chips in the SLP. It was a Nigel rag back then. What happened to the Mercury?
It's still going.
The SLP owners - then Trinity Mirror - bought the Mercury from Westminster Press in 1996, eventually shutting its local offices and moving everyone to Streatham. In the meantime, though, they invested in the Mercury and we were able to pump up the sports pages and publish a play-off supplement in 1998.
After I left that summer they merged the two sports desks and then a few years ago cut Kevin Nolan, which effectively killed the Mercury's Charlton coverage. The CAFC stuff now is usually just rehashes of what's already been in the SLP.
This, to be fair, is how frees and paid-for papers often work together. Unfortunately for the current owners these two titles' circulation footprints don't really match up, so I don't personally think it works, but explaining that to management was always a waste of time.
Mind you, you should see what's happened to the Kentish Times ...
His net worth is 2.5billion US according to Forbes, so we'd be a drop in the ocean to him. Owns the Philadelphia 76ers and the New Jersey Islanders, and his company is Apollo Global, so that's the Tom Hanks and Philly links to a certain someone's clues wrapped up as well....
Harvard Business School. Lives in New York. Currently worth 2.5 billion dollars, according to Forbes.
On a pro sports spending spree at the moment. Paid 320 million dollars for the New Jersey Devils three months ago.
Having mocked the stay at the Valley campaign as premature, I'd now say if Harris/Apollo Global buy Charlton , a move to the peninsula site is a cast iron certainty.
Comments
Yes, they need to know about profit/loss, players contracts, contingent liabilities amongst others; but if you're talking about investing in new players and players contracts, developing a new stadium on the peninsula and investing to sustain a premier league place, £2/£3m is basically f/all in the grand scheme of things.
You can save that in negotiating well for just one players contract - or you could persuade a buying club to spend that much more on one of your players.
Do you think a conglomerate who are looking to take us over are significantly worried about paying off RMs £800k overdraft and that is one of the reasons to hold up a sale?
Because if it is, then I fear our new owners may not be quite as minted as we're hoping for.
I would also suggest that anyone who invests in a Championship Football Club clearyl doesn't know the value of money.
Allegedly Gordon invited Victor Blank to Sunday lunch at Chequers and asked for LTSB to buy BofS which would give them a huge presence in the high street. The rub was that the government of the day would not refer it to the Monopolies Commission or whatever it is now called.
It is said that they only did 10% of their normal DD given the time limit set by GB and the price they paid for their failure was to take over the liability for a horrendous loan book which rapidly saw this cautious bank being bailed out by you and me!
Although we are only a tier 2 football club, we have an 'interesting' ownership structure which would need to be fully understood plus employee contracts and property rights etc. We may well have other skeletons in the cupboard which DD would seek to uncover.
Just remember what happened to LTSB!!!
All part of some cynical ruse.
There are clued up people on this site that have already picked apart the loans that need to be repaid and the finances on The Valley. A good but small team of experts would get DD done in no time without the need for huge fees to outside consultants.
You PJW1 now will have the perfect opportunity to say 'I told you so' if things by some horrible turn of fate go belly up.
If the take over does go ahead, I will look forward to the posted film on the thread of you eating last years season ticket (with smile on face ) !
Think our current owners have done some good at the club - also think they as near as dammit brought a football club on a whim and don't give a toss about us as fans.
Just because I want something to be true doesn't make it true.
That said I will be consulting Jamie's 15 min Season meals and no one will be better pleased than me if I have to eat plastic!
Talking of Jamie there is another annoying celebrity!
I am trying to see my glass half full at the moment regarding current takeover events and remain positive. It is better than being a miserable, the end of the world is nigh, merchant. in any case, I tend to use all those worries for when we are 2 goals or 3 goals up and there is 5 minutes to go to the final whistle !
After I left that summer they merged the two sports desks and then a few years ago cut Kevin Nolan, which effectively killed the Mercury's Charlton coverage. The CAFC stuff now is usually just rehashes of what's already been in the SLP.
This, to be fair, is how frees and paid-for papers often work together. Unfortunately for the current owners these two titles' circulation footprints don't really match up, so I don't personally think it works, but explaining that to management was always a waste of time.
Mind you, you should see what's happened to the Kentish Times ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2515257/Charlton-set-bought-American-sports-owner-Josh-Harris--CHARLES-SALE.html
Harris as in arse ......
I say no more
Harvard Business School. Lives in New York. Currently worth 2.5 billion dollars, according to Forbes.
On a pro sports spending spree at the moment. Paid 320 million dollars for the New Jersey Devils three months ago.
Having mocked the stay at the Valley campaign as premature, I'd now say if Harris/Apollo Global buy Charlton , a move to the peninsula site is a cast iron certainty.
A) Dead cert , playoffs here we come
C) It might have legs... but will probably be scotched next week