Parky made a mess of the of the Jonjo situation and I think he suffered from being a bit overhyped. He clearly had a bags of potential, which he's starting realize consistently, but he was hyped to an extent I think too much was expected of him at 17 years old. Rightly or wrongly I think that makes people harder for a British audience to warm to. He wasn't given a hard time as such by the fans but I know what you mean that he didn't get the same level of warmth that some youngsters have been afforded.
Frustrates the hell out of me every time I come on here and see a thread digging out someone like Joe Piggott. Not saying we have to say nice things if he didn't play well, but maybe don't say anything? Good chance the kid reads this site and I know if I read something online at 19 years of age saying I was shit at what I did I'd have taken it pretty hard. It comes with the territory but let him read that crap on his next club's message board
To be fair it was pretty tough for Parky to pick a 'footballing' midfielder like Shelvey in League One, the style of play is a million miles away from where he is best suited.
Some games in League One the ball spends most of the time 20 feet in the air so a player like Shelvey would be wasted.
He was very good that season in the early games - remembering he was only a kid at the time - but he got tired and our football got more and more direct as the season went on.
That was our last season in the Championship.
No, it wasn't.
First season in League One under Parky, we had a great start playing very nice football and Shelvey played in the hole in a 4-4-1-1 and was really good until the turn of the year when he got tired and Parky left him out.
Second half of the year we were much more direct without Shelvey in the side, still got results but in a different style.
I think we did him a favour, the way we were playing did not suit him at all.
Parky made a mess of the of the Jonjo situation and I think he suffered from being a bit overhyped. He clearly had a bags of potential, which he's starting realize consistently, but he was hyped to an extent I think too much was expected of him at 17 years old. Rightly or wrongly I think that makes people harder for a British audience to warm to. He wasn't given a hard time as such by the fans but I know what you mean that he didn't get the same level of warmth that some youngsters have been afforded.
Frustrates the hell out of me every time I come on here and see a thread digging out someone like Joe Piggott. Not saying we have to say nice things if he didn't play well, but maybe don't say anything? Good chance the kid reads this site and I know if I read something online at 19 years of age saying I was shit at what I did I'd have taken it pretty hard. It comes with the territory but let him read that crap on his next club's message board
To be fair it was pretty tough for Parky to pick a 'footballing' midfielder like Shelvey in League One, the style of play is a million miles away from where he is best suited.
Some games in League One the ball spends most of the time 20 feet in the air so a player like Shelvey would be wasted.
He was very good that season in the early games - remembering he was only a kid at the time - but he got tired and our football got more and more direct as the season went on.
Until recently that was what I told myself. Then I watched the documentary about Swansea, and how under Martinez they committed themselves to passing their way out of that division. Parky started that way with the triangle of JonJo, Sam, and Burton, but Sam, much older than JonJo, failed to deliver consistently, and Parky lost his bottle to continue that way.
Meanwhile, since I'm in Swansea, I think one of the most remarkable aspects of their story is that this commitment to a passing game came from the boardroom ( or rather supporters occupying the boardroom) and has been a commitment which every successive manager had to sign up to. I think that is unprecedented in modern British football, and bloody difficult to achieve in practice.
Parky made a mess of the of the Jonjo situation and I think he suffered from being a bit overhyped. He clearly had a bags of potential, which he's starting realize consistently, but he was hyped to an extent I think too much was expected of him at 17 years old. Rightly or wrongly I think that makes people harder for a British audience to warm to. He wasn't given a hard time as such by the fans but I know what you mean that he didn't get the same level of warmth that some youngsters have been afforded.
Frustrates the hell out of me every time I come on here and see a thread digging out someone like Joe Piggott. Not saying we have to say nice things if he didn't play well, but maybe don't say anything? Good chance the kid reads this site and I know if I read something online at 19 years of age saying I was shit at what I did I'd have taken it pretty hard. It comes with the territory but let him read that crap on his next club's message board
To be fair it was pretty tough for Parky to pick a 'footballing' midfielder like Shelvey in League One, the style of play is a million miles away from where he is best suited.
Some games in League One the ball spends most of the time 20 feet in the air so a player like Shelvey would be wasted.
He was very good that season in the early games - remembering he was only a kid at the time - but he got tired and our football got more and more direct as the season went on.
Until recently that was what I told myself. Then I watched the documentary about Swansea, and how under Martinez they committed themselves to passing their way out of that division. Parky started that way with the triangle of JonJo, Sam, and Burton, but Sam, much older than JonJo, failed to deliver consistently, and Parky lost his bottle to continue that way.
Meanwhile, since I'm in Swansea, I think one of the most remarkable aspects of their story is that this commitment to a passing game came from the boardroom ( or rather supporters occupying the boardroom) and has been a commitment which every successive manager had to sign up to. I think that is unprecedented in modern British football, and bloody difficult to achieve in practice.
That's all fair enough, but in all honesty you have to remember that Swansea were a club on the way up, we were a club on the way down and with one senior striker on the books in Deon Burton!
Parky had his faults - don't we all? - but Shelvey had struggled over the New Year and didn't feature too much in the second half of the season as Parky went 4-4-2 and decided (as Shelvey is not a wide player) that he could not quite trust him in the middle of a 4-4-2.
As he moved to Liverpool at the end of the season you'd be pushed to say it worked out badly for him!
Think if Jonjo had played in the playoff games we would of beaten Swindon, as we didn't have any one who could keep hold of the ball when we was leading.
Parky made a mess of the of the Jonjo situation and I think he suffered from being a bit overhyped. He clearly had a bags of potential, which he's starting realize consistently, but he was hyped to an extent I think too much was expected of him at 17 years old. Rightly or wrongly I think that makes people harder for a British audience to warm to. He wasn't given a hard time as such by the fans but I know what you mean that he didn't get the same level of warmth that some youngsters have been afforded.
Frustrates the hell out of me every time I come on here and see a thread digging out someone like Joe Piggott. Not saying we have to say nice things if he didn't play well, but maybe don't say anything? Good chance the kid reads this site and I know if I read something online at 19 years of age saying I was shit at what I did I'd have taken it pretty hard. It comes with the territory but let him read that crap on his next club's message board
To be fair it was pretty tough for Parky to pick a 'footballing' midfielder like Shelvey in League One, the style of play is a million miles away from where he is best suited.
Some games in League One the ball spends most of the time 20 feet in the air so a player like Shelvey would be wasted.
He was very good that season in the early games - remembering he was only a kid at the time - but he got tired and our football got more and more direct as the season went on.
That was our last season in the Championship.
No, it wasn't.
First season in League One under Parky, we had a great start playing very nice football and Shelvey played in the hole in a 4-4-1-1 and was really good until the turn of the year when he got tired and Parky left him out.
Second half of the year we were much more direct without Shelvey in the side, still got results but in a different style.
I think we did him a favour, the way we were playing did not suit him at all.
the best player ive seen for us at 17/18 was lee lee lee bowyer.
the best at 14-18 was scotty P but his development stunted between 18and 22 then he came back from norwich a different player.
jonjo i like as a player and as an individual. i do think he will struggle in the real upper echelons (international and champions league) of the game due to a lack of pace over the first 5-10M. perhaps with age this will become less important as he learns to read the game better. i think with us he was raw and we didnt do anything to apply that rawness. so i saw some greatness and also some silly business with 3 attempts at a 50M lobs in one half particularly standing out. but i dont blame that on jonjo as at least he was trying. i am saying that the coach should have took him outside and told him to relax, dont have to be maradona with every touch and the opportunities will come - dont force them. i also saw him deliver some real juicy finishes on the volley.
On the Shelvey argument, I've just read back on what i wrote when he moved to Liverpool. Looking back I think (in my opinion) it holds as a fair representation of the situation.
Funny how the passage of time changes perceptions, especially in an area where u are only as good as your last game.
your comments on liverpool move now seem particularly prophetic. Pretty much exactly how it transpired. Lad needs games week in week out, his "big game moments" style of play needs to be refined by experience. You tend only to learn from mistakes and the excellent response to the 2-2 game performance by laudrup is exactly what the lad needs.
Shelvey and Cousins the Midfield for England in future years - Wouldnt that make you a proud Addick if it happened!!
Yes! It might be unwise to predict this for Jordan on the basis of one extremely impressive game, but he really was impressive. JonJo I still maintain will captain England. Swansea allow him to do that thing of wandering out to the wing and looking disinterested, and then he suddenly starts a lethal run behind the defense. The difference between them and us in 2010 is that they have the players who can actually make use of those runs. I love watching him because I think he is a unique player. I loved watching Jordan because of his amazing calmness throughout the 90 minutes, belying his years. Hope he starts tomorrow
I think Thomas Ince is valued at around £8.5 million, well JC did not suffer in comparison today, the only thing he is missing games. Hopefully we can keep hold of him for a while and benefit from his skill and then his appreciating value.
That said I;ve seen Ince twice now and apart from being a bit flashy he seems to be overrated
I think Thomas Ince is valued at around £8.5 million, well JC did not suffer in comparison today, the only thing he is missing games. Hopefully we can keep hold of him for a while and benefit from his skill and then his appreciating value.
That said I;ve seen Ince twice now and apart from being a bit flashy he seems to be overrated
Said the same today, based on performances against us I think Matt Phillips was their better winger last season.
I think Thomas Ince is valued at around £8.5 million, well JC did not suffer in comparison today, the only thing he is missing games. Hopefully we can keep hold of him for a while and benefit from his skill and then his appreciating value.
That said I;ve seen Ince twice now and apart from being a bit flashy he seems to be overrated
Said the same today, based on performances against us I think Matt Phillips was their better winger last season.
Seconded/thirded. Ince Jr. has looked good, but not exceptional whenever I have seen him live or on television. On Tuesday, Andy Reid went up against the exact same midfield and on occasion the rest of the midfielders on both teams may as well have just sat back and watched him go. Ince had a few nice tricks and some decent passes but was hardly dominant to anything like the same degree.
Ive seen Ince twice now and apart from being a bit flashy he seems to be overrated
I've also seen Ince twice now... Sorry not impressed dont know what all the fuss is about!!
I'm guessing we've all seen the same two games where he wasn't impressive... that said, he's probably played a few other games we didn't all go to, which might be what all the fuss is about.
Top notch. Highlights for me in terms of judging potential were 2 moments
the strike onto the post...technique. fitness to be on the edge of the D after 76.minutes.
now thats an engine for a DM.
and the way he done tom ince a kippa into the book. That shows real class and talent. Ince knew he had been done and didnt even moan at the yellow. maturity and game smarts.
fook he is good. Reminded me of seedorf in his game style with a bit of khaderia thrown in
Wasn't as effective today as he was on Tuesday but still looked a class act whilst reminding us all that at the very early stages of his career he will have more than his share of ups and downs.
Good to have the pleasure in watching a special player who uses every nano second of time available (young Callum needs to watch and learn) and hope we have the pleasure of seeing his development up close for longer than we did for Jonjo.
and the way he done tom ince a kippa into the book. That shows real class and talent. Ince knew he had been done and didnt even moan at the yellow. maturity and game smarts.
Shit game today but worth it just watching Jordan, the young man has a big Future in the game providing he remains focused. Would like to see him in a CAM Position rather than CDM, Passes the ball well but does not just admire it but moves too look for the return
Comments
First season in League One under Parky, we had a great start playing very nice football and Shelvey played in the hole in a 4-4-1-1 and was really good until the turn of the year when he got tired and Parky left him out.
Second half of the year we were much more direct without Shelvey in the side, still got results but in a different style.
I think we did him a favour, the way we were playing did not suit him at all.
Meanwhile, since I'm in Swansea, I think one of the most remarkable aspects of their story is that this commitment to a passing game came from the boardroom ( or rather supporters occupying the boardroom) and has been a commitment which every successive manager had to sign up to. I think that is unprecedented in modern British football, and bloody difficult to achieve in practice.
Parky had his faults - don't we all? - but Shelvey had struggled over the New Year and didn't feature too much in the second half of the season as Parky went 4-4-2 and decided (as Shelvey is not a wide player) that he could not quite trust him in the middle of a 4-4-2.
As he moved to Liverpool at the end of the season you'd be pushed to say it worked out badly for him!
If the reason for leaving him out was fear of playing him too much at a tender age then that would be another debate.
It wasn't the case though.
the best at 14-18 was scotty P but his development stunted between 18and 22 then he came back from norwich a different player.
jonjo i like as a player and as an individual. i do think he will struggle in the real upper echelons (international and champions league) of the game due to a lack of pace over the first 5-10M. perhaps with age this will become less important as he learns to read the game better. i think with us he was raw and we didnt do anything to apply that rawness. so i saw some greatness and also some silly business with 3 attempts at a 50M lobs in one half particularly standing out. but i dont blame that on jonjo as at least he was trying. i am saying that the coach should have took him outside and told him to relax, dont have to be maradona with every touch and the opportunities will come - dont force them. i also saw him deliver some real juicy finishes on the volley.
http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/34102/new-article-the-curious-case-of-jonjo-shelvey
your comments on liverpool move now seem particularly prophetic. Pretty much exactly how it transpired. Lad needs games week in week out, his "big game moments" style of play needs to be refined by experience. You tend only to learn from mistakes and the excellent response to the 2-2 game performance by laudrup is exactly what the lad needs.
Great news!!
Ah, I spy another thread :-)
That said I;ve seen Ince twice now and apart from being a bit flashy he seems to be overrated
the strike onto the post...technique. fitness to be on the edge of the D after 76.minutes.
now thats an engine for a DM.
and the way he done tom ince a kippa into the book. That shows real class and talent. Ince knew he had been done and didnt even moan at the yellow. maturity and game smarts.
fook he is good. Reminded me of seedorf in his game style with a bit of khaderia thrown in
Good to have the pleasure in watching a special player who uses every nano second of time available (young Callum needs to watch and learn) and hope we have the pleasure of seeing his development up close for longer than we did for Jonjo.