Thanks for the kind words Fanny! I just thought that some perspective about his achievements (and personality to boot), regardless of the current situation, should highlight just what an asset we have - and just what he's managed to do for this club. In much a similar vein to sirjohnhumphrey's excellent post.
I must say, it would appear to be quite a small minority that seem to want rid of Powell - and a minority which can't seem to grasp the situation as a whole. Largely I think most of us are behind him, and I'd like to think that if we can vocalise that support for him it may send a clear message!
So you would have stuck with the team that lost to Bournemouth for a number of weeks after? Really? Would you not have called for changes if we lost the games that followed it?
What I'm trying to get over is that the team (midfield) for Bournemouth was wrong - that was a winnable game from 1-1 plus Boro haven't won since they beat us - pre season should have put us in better shape - the chopping and changing since week 1 is a reason why we're struggling. Any successful team has a consistent midfield.
And Leicester haven't lost since they lost to us - what's your point?
The midfield has been a problem even since our League One winning season. It's a bigger problem in the Championship - it's not going to change without the money to change it. We might get lucky and Cousins really turns our season in there, but in my opinion Stephens is the nearest senior player we have to a creator, and he's so woefully inconsistent, even in the same game.
Why would I care about Leicester - I made my point and stand by it. With regards to DS - if he's a creator, why doesn't the manager play him further forward? Why hasn't he improved as a player? Unfortunately, other than the finance issue, everything else comes back to the manager, which, sticking to the topic, could lead to his sacking. Not what I want, but he has to improve - same in any business.
What, like Powell did on Saturday?
I'll re-iterate what I said in my post earlier:
Yeah, results aren't coming our way - and tactics aren't dominating play. Let's face it, everytime we've called for earlier substitutions or different styles of play - he's delivered. They are not the actions of a stubborn or overly confident man; but they are the actions of a man genuinely trying to progress and work his way out of a situation.
That said, fundamentally I agree with you unfortunately - that if you take the financial aspect of the current situation away, then you are just left with Powell. However, I think it's undeniable that without that financial aspect then we wouldn't be having this discussion anyway!
Powell is doing the best he can, and the best we can hope for from anyone given current circumstances. Those current circumstances being the financial difficulties, and the morale of the players which stem from.. financial difficulties. I think any manager would be struggling at the moment.
My main concern is that if the board decide to get rid of Powell, I fear it could be seen as a ploy at "re-winning" a small subsection of supporters. ("Oh finally the board are doing something. Fair play to them, they've stopped this situation before it's gone any further")
When in actual fact if the board did sack Powell then I would write off this season and fully expect to be back in League One next season, League One with most of our players out of contract.
Call me misguided or deluded, but I believe Powell is the key for keeping some form of order onboard the ship, and whilst he's in charge - we do have hope of better days.
ignore andy or his real name nick gray he is a renowned wum and clueless poster
You're wrong there mate, Andy is not Nick Gray!
Can I just say that Nick Gray is a loyal supporter who goes home and away and has supported Charlton for a very long time. He was there when it was announced that Charlton were returning to the Valley. Some of his views, like getting rid of Powell, I don't agree with but he has every right to express them. There is a danger on this forum of being labelled a WUM if your opinion differs from the mainstream opinion on here. We all have different views and people should be free to express them without the danger of personal insult.
So you would have stuck with the team that lost to Bournemouth for a number of weeks after? Really? Would you not have called for changes if we lost the games that followed it?
What I'm trying to get over is that the team (midfield) for Bournemouth was wrong - that was a winnable game from 1-1 plus Boro haven't won since they beat us - pre season should have put us in better shape - the chopping and changing since week 1 is a reason why we're struggling. Any successful team has a consistent midfield.
And Leicester haven't lost since they lost to us - what's your point?
The midfield has been a problem even since our League One winning season. It's a bigger problem in the Championship - it's not going to change without the money to change it. We might get lucky and Cousins really turns our season in there, but in my opinion Stephens is the nearest senior player we have to a creator, and he's so woefully inconsistent, even in the same game.
Why would I care about Leicester - I made my point and stand by it. With regards to DS - if he's a creator, why doesn't the manager play him further forward? Why hasn't he improved as a player? Unfortunately, other than the finance issue, everything else comes back to the manager, which, sticking to the topic, could lead to his sacking. Not what I want, but he has to improve - same in any business.
But Boro's record since they beat us has no more no less to do with our form than Leicester's.
As for Stephens, what makes you think he's not improved? He's playing at a higher level against much better players, that fact alone suggests he's more capable than he was in League One. It doesn't however mean he will succeed in the Championship.
This is fundamentally the point I think you're missing. The finance issue is so relevant because not every player has it in them to improve enough to really make a different at this level. Last season we massively overachieved in terms of position, yet this year we have a poorer squad because the finance wouldn't support the same again.
Our biggest issue is that we don't have the quality in midfield, simple as that. Powell's tried to resolve that with 3 central midfielders, it worked for most of the 3-5-2 games but came apart against Millwall. I hear the performance against Burnley wasn't as bad as the scoreline suggests, but without the finance the midfield won't resolve itself. Stephens certainly hasn't persuaded me that he's the answer.
Powell could address the midfield in a slightly different way, but withdrawing Kermorgant into the hole between Church and the midfield. It might help us in more ways the one, given SJH's comments about how teams stop us by stopping Kermorgant. A game plan with him playing deeper, linking play, breaking into the box, giving the midfield a little something extra perhaps.
Leaving aside the lack of investment in the playing squad this season, various people have suggested that our poor performances are caused by lack of vociferous support from the stands, injuries to key players, or low morale among the players stemming from the uncertainty over their contracts.
I don't buy any of that. Even with a stronger squad last season we lost nine league and two cup games at home. This season with a fully fit team we have played badly - abysmally against Boro and ripped to shreds by Donny Rovers. Professional players don't lack effort or commitment - they passionately want to win, for their pride individually and collectively as a team, and to gain the acclaim from us fans.
We are playing badly because the training regime at Sparrows Lane fails to equip the players with moves and strategies to beat the opposition. Powell makes misjudgements in deciding on formations. And most importantly, most of our players simply lack the physical strength and technical skills to compete with even the most ordinary Championship teams.
I'm looking forward to tomorrow's match against Forest, just as I look forward to every game. Have any lessons been learned?
We are playing badly because the training regime at Sparrows Lane fails to equip the players with moves and strategies to beat the opposition. Powell makes misjudgements in deciding on formations. And most importantly, most of our players simply lack the physical strength and technical skills to compete with even the most ordinary Championship teams.
What FA Coaching Level have you attained to make that assumption? There are way too many things going on both on and off the pitch to simplify it that much. The team were obviously good enough for the last 3rd of last season and people are panicking way too soon.
I would absolutely fear for our club if CP was to go either by choice or as a sacking. I feel like he is the only person that has CAFC running through his veins that's still involved. A special club is slowly being broken up....what next leaving the valley....oh yeah.
Leaving aside the lack of investment in the playing squad this season, various people have suggested that our poor performances are caused by lack of vociferous support from the stands, injuries to key players, or low morale among the players stemming from the uncertainty over their contracts.
you answered your own question with that first paragraph you dint need to write this bit
We are playing badly because the training regime at Sparrows Lane fails to equip the players with moves and strategies to beat the opposition. Powell makes misjudgements in deciding on formations. And most importantly, most of our players simply lack the physical strength and technical skills to compete with even the most ordinary Championship teams.
the trust preview of the game on Tuesday should be all you need to read to establish the blame and where fault lies
With Powell, we have a chance of holding the club together and avoiding relegation (despite him being effectively sabotaged by his own board with the contracts situation). We will not get anyone 'better' because our club is now a basket case and only the clinically insane would want Powell's job - no money to spend, players out of contract and distracted by it (as well as feeling they have been deceived by promises that were made and not kept), want away owners with zero empathy for the club, its history and its fans etc.
Without him we are quite simply, doomed. I am 100% for Powell. I'll go further than that - if we are relegated, I hope against hope that he is still around to put back the pieces of our shattered club and lead us back in the right direction. However, I know how much that would be to ask of him and I wouldn't begrudge him if he decided that the personal cost to him and his family is too great and walked....many other managers would have done so long before now if they were in his shoes.
I can't understand that in the midst of the slow motion train wreck that Charlton has become, people are calling for the head of someone who is currently working under intolerable conditions not of his making and still trying with all his worth to somehow pull us back from the brink. He really is the only (let's face it, small) chance that we have of avoiding disaster. Please don't hound him out and make sure that we really are f***ed.
Viewfinder, how many training sessions have you watched to come to that conclusion?
I suspect the answer will be none from Viewfinder however you do have to ask the question what the players work on in training as most, if not all free kicks, corners and throw in's generally lead to nothing.
Add to that the lack of defense splitting passes by the midfield or wing play resulting in a player getting to the bye line and whipping in a cross.
Hoof ball does not need to be practiced on the training field so what else does it leave.........a bit of running and a game of five-a-side?
Viewfinder, how many training sessions have you watched to come to that conclusion?
I suspect the answer will be none from Viewfinder however you do have to ask the question what the players work on in training as most, if not all free kicks, corners and throw in's generally lead to nothing.
Add to that the lack of defense splitting passes by the midfield or wing play resulting in a player getting to the bye line and whipping in a cross.
Hoof ball does not need to be practiced on the training field so what else does it leave.........a bit of running and a game of five-a-side?
Absolutely correct. For the doubters - watch the way the opposing teams play. They aren't making it all up as they go along; they have set pieces and rehearsed moves, they are trained to make space and thread killer passes. What do we do? We make lateral passes at the back then hoof it up front and hope something will happen.
Viewfinder, how many training sessions have you watched to come to that conclusion?
I suspect the answer will be none from Viewfinder however you do have to ask the question what the players work on in training as most, if not all free kicks, corners and throw in's generally lead to nothing.
Add to that the lack of defense splitting passes by the midfield or wing play resulting in a player getting to the bye line and whipping in a cross.
Hoof ball does not need to be practiced on the training field so what else does it leave.........a bit of running and a game of five-a-side?
Fair points, but as pointed out above we have scored from set pieces this season, so there's no doubt that players have instructions.
passages of play will most certainly get worked on, but it's impossible to replicate a game situation to its maximum on the training ground.
Also, we just don't have the quality in players. Arsenal, for example, will work on small sided games, keep ball etc and you can tell from the way they play on a Saturday. BUT their average player is worth about £20m so it's easier for their manager to instruct and then expect his players to replicate. Telling players like Pritchard, Jackson, Stephens, Morrison etc to keep it short and simple or be direct in a certain way may be all well and good down Sparrows Lane but its completely different at the Valley. If the calibre of player isn't great then neither is the football.
I posed the question as viewfinder was blaming the coaching staff just on what happens on a saturday. Powell and the coaching staff might be just as frustrated as we are!
Viewfinder, how many training sessions have you watched to come to that conclusion?
I suspect the answer will be none from Viewfinder however you do have to ask the question what the players work on in training as most, if not all free kicks, corners and throw in's generally lead to nothing.
Add to that the lack of defense splitting passes by the midfield or wing play resulting in a player getting to the bye line and whipping in a cross.
Hoof ball does not need to be practiced on the training field so what else does it leave.........a bit of running and a game of five-a-side?
Fair points, but as pointed out above we have scored from set pieces this season, so there's no doubt that players have instructions.
passages of play will most certainly get worked on, but it's impossible to replicate a game situation to its maximum on the training ground.
Also, we just don't have the quality in players. Arsenal, for example, will work on small sided games, keep ball etc and you can tell from the way they play on a Saturday. BUT their average player is worth about £20m so it's easier for their manager to instruct and then expect his players to replicate. Telling players like Pritchard, Jackson, Stephens, Morrison etc to keep it short and simple or be direct in a certain way may be all well and good down Sparrows Lane but its completely different at the Valley. If the calibre of player isn't great then neither is the football.
I posed the question as viewfinder was blaming the coaching staff just on what happens on a saturday. Powell and the coaching staff might be just as frustrated as we are!
You have played,or still play, don't you VG? Agree with all of this,some people think a defence-splitting pass is a simple matter - it isn't - there are any number of Premiership clubs that are crying out for a player with that sort of ability.
An average Championship side with no money will not have that sort of footballer available to them.And please,no talk of Stephen's potential to do so.
I agree with people that our football is poor at the moment, and CP does need to try and rid us of our 'hoofball' style. I would imagine he is, and a visit to the training ground once of twice a week people would see.
Does anyone on here go and see a training session or is it all behind closed doors?
I was fortunate enough to watch a couple of sessions recently. And you know what? It was hard, intense, good natured, focused, well planned and exhausting to watch. Also, the touch, technique and movement of the players was spot on. They set up the system they were going to play in the following match and those not playing were set up as the opposition. We looked good and the relationship between all the players and the staff was really positive.
I have been lucky enough to see some top squads training, including Man U, City and Arsenal. We have nowhere near that quality of player but the quality of the session put on was as good.
So you would have stuck with the team that lost to Bournemouth for a number of weeks after? Really? Would you not have called for changes if we lost the games that followed it?
What I'm trying to get over is that the team (midfield) for Bournemouth was wrong - that was a winnable game from 1-1 plus Boro haven't won since they beat us - pre season should have put us in better shape - the chopping and changing since week 1 is a reason why we're struggling. Any successful team has a consistent midfield.
And Leicester haven't lost since they lost to us - what's your point?
The midfield has been a problem even since our League One winning season. It's a bigger problem in the Championship - it's not going to change without the money to change it. We might get lucky and Cousins really turns our season in there, but in my opinion Stephens is the nearest senior player we have to a creator, and he's so woefully inconsistent, even in the same game.
Why would I care about Leicester - I made my point and stand by it. With regards to DS - if he's a creator, why doesn't the manager play him further forward? Why hasn't he improved as a player? Unfortunately, other than the finance issue, everything else comes back to the manager, which, sticking to the topic, could lead to his sacking. Not what I want, but he has to improve - same in any business.
But Boro's record since they beat us has no more no less to do with our form than Leicester's.
As for Stephens, what makes you think he's not improved? He's playing at a higher level against much better players, that fact alone suggests he's more capable than he was in League One. It doesn't however mean he will succeed in the Championship.
This is fundamentally the point I think you're missing. The finance issue is so relevant because not every player has it in them to improve enough to really make a different at this level. Last season we massively overachieved in terms of position, yet this year we have a poorer squad because the finance wouldn't support the same again.
Our biggest issue is that we don't have the quality in midfield, simple as that. Powell's tried to resolve that with 3 central midfielders, it worked for most of the 3-5-2 games but came apart against Millwall. I hear the performance against Burnley wasn't as bad as the scoreline suggests, but without the finance the midfield won't resolve itself. Stephens certainly hasn't persuaded me that he's the answer.
I appreciate your views - I feel Stephens should dominate more and find the odd killer pass - too many games pass him by. It's a shame as I feel he does have something to offer - this is why I feel he hasn't improved - this also comes down to the coaching he receives, of course, and match day instructions.
I was fortunate enough to watch a couple of sessions recently. And you know what? It was hard, intense, good natured, focused, well planned and exhausting to watch. Also, the touch, technique and movement of the players was spot on. They set up the system they were going to play in the following match and those not playing were set up as the opposition. We looked good and the relationship between all the players and the staff was really positive.
I have been lucky enough to see some top squads training, including Man U, City and Arsenal. We have nowhere near that quality of player but the quality of the session put on was as good.
Now we'll have someone complaining that CP wears the players out in training.
Comments
I must say, it would appear to be quite a small minority that seem to want rid of Powell - and a minority which can't seem to grasp the situation as a whole. Largely I think most of us are behind him, and I'd like to think that if we can vocalise that support for him it may send a clear message! What, like Powell did on Saturday?
I'll re-iterate what I said in my post earlier: That said, fundamentally I agree with you unfortunately - that if you take the financial aspect of the current situation away, then you are just left with Powell. However, I think it's undeniable that without that financial aspect then we wouldn't be having this discussion anyway!
Powell is doing the best he can, and the best we can hope for from anyone given current circumstances. Those current circumstances being the financial difficulties, and the morale of the players which stem from.. financial difficulties. I think any manager would be struggling at the moment.
My main concern is that if the board decide to get rid of Powell, I fear it could be seen as a ploy at "re-winning" a small subsection of supporters. ("Oh finally the board are doing something. Fair play to them, they've stopped this situation before it's gone any further")
When in actual fact if the board did sack Powell then I would write off this season and fully expect to be back in League One next season, League One with most of our players out of contract.
Call me misguided or deluded, but I believe Powell is the key for keeping some form of order onboard the ship, and whilst he's in charge - we do have hope of better days.
As for Stephens, what makes you think he's not improved? He's playing at a higher level against much better players, that fact alone suggests he's more capable than he was in League One. It doesn't however mean he will succeed in the Championship.
This is fundamentally the point I think you're missing. The finance issue is so relevant because not every player has it in them to improve enough to really make a different at this level. Last season we massively overachieved in terms of position, yet this year we have a poorer squad because the finance wouldn't support the same again.
Our biggest issue is that we don't have the quality in midfield, simple as that. Powell's tried to resolve that with 3 central midfielders, it worked for most of the 3-5-2 games but came apart against Millwall. I hear the performance against Burnley wasn't as bad as the scoreline suggests, but without the finance the midfield won't resolve itself. Stephens certainly hasn't persuaded me that he's the answer.
I don't buy any of that. Even with a stronger squad last season we lost nine league and two cup games at home. This season with a fully fit team we have played badly - abysmally against Boro and ripped to shreds by Donny Rovers. Professional players don't lack effort or commitment - they passionately want to win, for their pride individually and collectively as a team, and to gain the acclaim from us fans.
We are playing badly because the training regime at Sparrows Lane fails to equip the players with moves and strategies to beat the opposition. Powell makes misjudgements in deciding on formations. And most importantly, most of our players simply lack the physical strength and technical skills to compete with even the most ordinary Championship teams.
I'm looking forward to tomorrow's match against Forest, just as I look forward to every game. Have any lessons been learned?
To be fair to Nick Gray, I think he's more of an idiot than a WUM.
I would absolutely fear for our club if CP was to go either by choice or as a sacking. I feel like he is the only person that has CAFC running through his veins that's still involved. A special club is slowly being broken up....what next leaving the valley....oh yeah.
you answered your own question with that first paragraph you dint need to write this bit
We are playing badly because the training regime at Sparrows Lane fails to equip the players with moves and strategies to beat the opposition. Powell makes misjudgements in deciding on formations. And most importantly, most of our players simply lack the physical strength and technical skills to compete with even the most ordinary Championship teams.
the trust preview of the game on Tuesday should be all you need to read to establish the blame and where fault lies
Without him we are quite simply, doomed. I am 100% for Powell. I'll go further than that - if we are relegated, I hope against hope that he is still around to put back the pieces of our shattered club and lead us back in the right direction. However, I know how much that would be to ask of him and I wouldn't begrudge him if he decided that the personal cost to him and his family is too great and walked....many other managers would have done so long before now if they were in his shoes.
I can't understand that in the midst of the slow motion train wreck that Charlton has become, people are calling for the head of someone who is currently working under intolerable conditions not of his making and still trying with all his worth to somehow pull us back from the brink. He really is the only (let's face it, small) chance that we have of avoiding disaster. Please don't hound him out and make sure that we really are f***ed.
Add to that the lack of defense splitting passes by the midfield or wing play resulting in a player getting to the bye line and whipping in a cross.
Hoof ball does not need to be practiced on the training field so what else does it leave.........a bit of running and a game of five-a-side?
passages of play will most certainly get worked on, but it's impossible to replicate a game situation to its maximum on the training ground.
Also, we just don't have the quality in players. Arsenal, for example, will work on small sided games, keep ball etc and you can tell from the way they play on a Saturday. BUT their average player is worth about £20m so it's easier for their manager to instruct and then expect his players to replicate. Telling players like Pritchard, Jackson, Stephens, Morrison etc to keep it short and simple or be direct in a certain way may be all well and good down Sparrows Lane but its completely different at the Valley. If the calibre of player isn't great then neither is the football.
I posed the question as viewfinder was blaming the coaching staff just on what happens on a saturday. Powell and the coaching staff might be just as frustrated as we are!
An average Championship side with no money will not have that sort of footballer available to them.And please,no talk of Stephen's potential to do so.
I agree with people that our football is poor at the moment, and CP does need to try and rid us of our 'hoofball' style. I would imagine he is, and a visit to the training ground once of twice a week people would see.
Does anyone on here go and see a training session or is it all behind closed doors?
I have been lucky enough to see some top squads training, including Man U, City and Arsenal. We have nowhere near that quality of player but the quality of the session put on was as good.
Now we'll have someone complaining that CP wears the players out in training.