And to be honest, NLA, what I posted is pretty much the bare bones of what I was told and all I am currently willing to share out of respect to someone who feels able to tell me inside stuff on the club I love. It is good to know thought that there is sympathy of the current plight of our club, even amongst our rivals. It is up to us, the management and the players to get us out of it though. I still think we will.
Understandable why Rico was so angry about the whole scenario. Not just about the offer, but just a certain someone in general, and it's not CP.
And this is why those on here who believe the lack of contracts, poor offers of pay etc should have no effect on the performance on the pitch. It breeds anger, resentment and frustration and ultimately people will not give their all for people who do not value, trust or believe in them.
Regardless of the job you do, the money you earn or the quality of the work you produce, poor leadership equals poor performance.
So you would have stuck with the team that lost to Bournemouth for a number of weeks after? Really? Would you not have called for changes if we lost the games that followed it?
What I'm trying to get over is that the team (midfield) for Bournemouth was wrong - that was a winnable game from 1-1 plus Boro haven't won since they beat us - pre season should have put us in better shape - the chopping and changing since week 1 is a reason why we're struggling. Any successful team has a consistent midfield.
I have met 4 people this week since people started posting stuff on here just to try and find out if there is truth or relevance in what was said
1 agent, 2 players and a good coach/scout at spurs it varied as to what they knew, the agent has atleast 1current player at cafc
the agent stated the stuff about contracts is discussed between agents and players more often than is good for the players to be concentrating fully on what they should be , he also knows powell and AD very well
the players whom are friends with 2 of our current squad assures me that there is support for powell within the group but a lot of unhappiness with the situations that have been told to some players ref their future and promises that have been broken
the scout/coach was full of praise for what scp has done this season and said that those that know chris have asked why he has stuck it out as he could easily walk with rep in tact
So you would have stuck with the team that lost to Bournemouth for a number of weeks after? Really? Would you not have called for changes if we lost the games that followed it?
What I'm trying to get over is that the team (midfield) for Bournemouth was wrong - that was a winnable game from 1-1 plus Boro haven't won since they beat us - pre season should have put us in better shape - the chopping and changing since week 1 is a reason why we're struggling. Any successful team has a consistent midfield.
Hence my previous post that consistency equals quality. We haven't got players that are consistent Championship quality Im afraid.
I have met 4 people this week since people started posting stuff on here just to try and find out if there is truth or relevance in what was said
1 agent, 2 players and a good coach/scout at spurs it varied as to what they knew, the agent has atleast 1current player at cafc
the agent stated the stuff about contracts is discussed between agents and players more often than is good for the players to be concentrating fully on what they should be , he also knows powell and AD very well
the players whom are friends with 2 of our current squad assures me that there is support for powell within the group but a lot of unhappiness with the situations that have been told to some players ref their future and promises that have been broken
the scout/coach was full of praise for what scp has done this season and said that those that know chris have asked why he has stuck it out as he could easily walk with rep in tact
Any idea what his reputation is? I met him last year and thought he was a passionate and ambitious man - surely, though, he hasn't been a manager long enough for a reputation?
Perhaps a reputation for being a decent man. For producing a team with a record points score. For steering a squad of decent players to 9th place. For getting the best from players others had doubted or given up on. For having a group of players who give their all for him...
He won the league with a record matching points total, then managed to get almost the exact same squad to ninth in the championship the very next season. That sounds pretty reputable for me, even before you take in his undoubted personal qualities in addition to his managerial ones.
he's earned the right to have a bad run, in my eyes
Didn't he have that when he first took over?
In all seriousness, I said it on the matchday thread yesterday and I'll say it again, it is a results driven business and we haven't had a result for the last 3 games. If we don't get a result in the next 2 games he wil be gone. Rightly or wrongly that is, imo, a fact.
I drift between the two camps to be honest. I do get the, who could do better with the lack of investment and the crop of players that he had argument, but where I struggle is the fact that when we have been bad under Powell we have been f***ing awful - we have seen some absolute shockers under his leadership and at times the football has been painful.
I don't doubt that the same happened under Dowie, Pardew et al, but is seems like these types of perfomances crop up more often under Powell.
In all honestly, I don't know what they answer is and as I'm not paid to find the answer it doesn't keep me awake a night. All I do know is that I completely agree with Kevin Nolan when he says if it looks like a crisis it probably is. Without any investment this squad won't keep us up end of.
I'm probably way off the mark, but given the supposed frosty relationship between TJ and CP, I can't help but think if a new man came in, whether TJ might find some money to back him?
Well which is it Clem - a lack of investment or a poor manager? If TJ is holding money from CP because he doesn't like him, ,he probably keys his own car as well.
Question to the blinkered brigade, when would you sack CP? I am not saying now, but think he is in last chance saloon, maybe another half a dozen games, it would be harsh to judge him on the upcoming games tbh, but the nice bloke exemption surely cannot last forever?
I would say by Christmas ... and I would not judge solely on league position .. the inconsistent team selection, admittedly hampered lately by a few injuries, muddled tactics and watching a team attempting to play a game to which it is simply not suited, to my mind means that 'the manager' has lost the plot irrespective of any and I mean ANY outside influences, no money, lack of new contracts, whatever. It is not fair to the fans if we sink with a wonderful guy/captain/manager at the helm, well meaning and charismatic though he may be. If the manager is not managing what he has, not getting the best from what resources he has, as limited as they may be, he must go and give someone else a chance to improve the situation.
And what he if is getting the best from the resources he has?
Just to say, if we'd sacked Powell at the end of his first season we'd never have had the wonderful second. The difference between the two was that he was able to invest in his squad, however that was afforded.
He's not been able to do that in the Championship. If money's not available, I think Mourinho would struggle to do better.
Sadly strategy for managing managers doesn't seem to hinge on rationality.
There is a touch of the "turn it off and on again and see if it sorts itself out" about it. Although there is no shortage of theory no-one seems to know why some teams fail - why one team of average footballers will punch above their weight consistently and a team of talented potential high-fliers will stagger around the pitch as if they didn't know why they were there. Once your team of well-meaning journeymen stop performing and start puffing and panting to keep up with averagely talented teams the manger is often the whipping boy and the scapegoat and all those other phrases that really mean "we can't afford to buy another whole new team, so it's cheaper to change the manager". TJ and the other medium-sized businessmen that have bought the team don't seem to have any particular strategy that equates to effectively managing a football club either, and in my experience when those at the top are not competent to avert failure or honest enough to admit it, they sacrifice those below them to cover their own shortcomings.
Clearly a big part of a managers responsibility is to motivate players to perform better than they thought they could. But "we can do this" provides diminishing returns without more tangible input in the form of money/players.
he has earnt the right to be supported and he should go and better himself
I'm begining to agree with you to be honest.
If the rumours of his relationship with TJ are to be believed then I don't think anyone deserves that kind of work relationship, let alone such a loyal servant to the club.
He has never deceived nor made any promises to the fans, in contrast, he has been open about our luck last season - and how we "overachieved".
He's shown a passion and emotion that is very rare in a manager, he genuinely strikes me as someone who will have sleepless nights over his work. Let's not forget the tears at Carlisle in 2012.
Yeah, results aren't coming our way - and tactics aren't dominating play. Let's face it, everytime we've called for earlier substitutions or different styles of play - he's delivered. They are not the actions of a stubborn or overly confident man; but they are the actions of a man genuinely trying to progress and work his way out of a situation.
He took his first objective quicker than expected, and in a record breaking fashion - the season he gave us all in League One was brilliant. The valley became a fortress once more and we were feared on the road; all in his first season as manager.
Afterwards, situations out of his control, conspired so that we couldn't invest - nor could we secure prior investments. So not only was there no improvement to the squad, there was actualy decline in the squad - where morale is considered at least. This occurring in already difficult time of transition up the leagues.
To have steered the ship in an upward trajectory, whilst dealing with unfavourable relationships which should be supportive, shows strength of character and genuine passion for this club - something which I fear a large section of our support is underestimating.
As everyone else has agreed that they would support Solly, Harriott or others if they moved away from the club, I would support Powell and wish him the best. He deserves it.
He's not flawless and he's not perfect. Find me a manager who is and I will give you someone who's biased and a manager out of our price range, as well as a manager who would expect more than we can provide.
To those who say we can't wait forever for a change, an improvement, no - we can't. Neither can Powell though, his career is on the line when its only just began.
I support Chris Powell 100%.
For some reason, this is the first time I have read this.
What a fantastic post ! I can add very little of any substance.
Every Charlton "supporter" should be made to read this and then seriously reconsider any negative views they may hold of the gaffer.
We will NEVER find another man who is as selfless, dedicated, honest and sincere as SCP - yes, SCP !!!!
In the words of Joni Mitchell " You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone"
If you have to blame someone, then look no further than the Boardroom.
So you would have stuck with the team that lost to Bournemouth for a number of weeks after? Really? Would you not have called for changes if we lost the games that followed it?
What I'm trying to get over is that the team (midfield) for Bournemouth was wrong - that was a winnable game from 1-1 plus Boro haven't won since they beat us - pre season should have put us in better shape - the chopping and changing since week 1 is a reason why we're struggling. Any successful team has a consistent midfield.
And Leicester haven't lost since they lost to us - what's your point?
The midfield has been a problem even since our League One winning season. It's a bigger problem in the Championship - it's not going to change without the money to change it. We might get lucky and Cousins really turns our season in there, but in my opinion Stephens is the nearest senior player we have to a creator, and he's so woefully inconsistent, even in the same game.
I read a lot of posts on here but contribute rather infrequently. I only tend to do so when I read what I consider to be utter diatribe from people who show themselves to have no football nous, knowledge or understanding of how the game works.
I do not claim to have any answers but after spending a number of years in the game at different levels and having a clear understanding of the psychology of the game I feel I need to put my tuppence worth in.
Chris Powell came to us as a rookie manager.this was after his successful stint working under managers such as Nigel Pearson and Sven Goran Eriksson. Both eulogised about him and believed he would be a success as a manager. We took a chance on him and despite what I currently think if the people leading our club, this was a fantastic decision.
Four wins at the start of his tenure was followed by a disappointing end to his first season in charge. He knew at Dagenham and Redbridge that he needed to make changes to the squad, and in particularly create a mentality and ethos that permeated through the club.
He basically threw down the gauntlet to the owners and said back me and I will repay you. He did this. He signed a whole new squad and they ran away with the league. Now, I know we didn't play particularly expansive football but in reality we had to tough our way out of that league and we did so. (And by the way, Vincent, who on previous pages of this thread criticises Powell's scouting network, how did he get all these new players in?)
Of those signings I would say that 70% could be considered genuine successes. Last season was a slog at times, we had bad runs and we had good runs. We lost games we feel we should have won and won games we expected to lose.
Now we are struggling. Big time. The spirit that saw us through some tough times last year seems to have deserted us a little. The injuries we have are bound to play a part. We have a threadbare squad. Our players are unsure of their futures. Our management team are unsure of their futures. Our owners barely watch us or communicate with the fans.
And yet sacking Chris Powell would see an upturn in results and performance? Really? Based on what? A new manager will want new signings. We have no money. A new manager will want time. We do not have it.
Powell isn't the problem. Those above him are. Those who are so 'successful' in their own fields but clearly have no idea of the mechanics of running a successful sporting team. Who show neglect, disdain and downright contempt towards its employees at all levels is the way to run things. Show them who the bosses are. Take no crap from the minions. Rip the heart out of a club whose history and success is based on heart and guts and fighting spirit.
And now that same attitude is showing in the reactions of some fans.
Please don't tell me that Paul Hart or Keith Peacock are better bets for managing this group of players. Please don't band names such as Pulis or Pearce as realistic alternatives.
NLA is correct that we are currently seen as the Titanic of the football world by managers, players, coaches, scouts. We are heading towards a huge iceberg. Allow Powell the opportunity to play his part in ensuring we steer clear of it.
Plain sailing at Charlton? Never is. But we have the only man probably willing enough, big enough and supported enough to have a chance at getting it right.
So you know the difference between the player wages for those that have left and the new comers please let me know just how much this difference is
Several have quoted Fullers wages from last season on here but I don't know them for sure - they were high. But I do have a good idea of the reduction in the wage bill now compared to last season BEFORE Church and Sordell were signed just before the start of the season. It is not a small number... seven digit!
Am I going to publish that number? No do me a favour! 1) this is a message board 2) I have no way of knowing if the aggregate number I was given is 100% although you would be surprised at my source 3) even if I did know it is 100% it's not my role to release that number
It is up to the club to publish their view of the numbers and strategy when they deem it is an appropriate time. If we want more detail and more clarity then I guess we are going to have to ask?
Meanwhile we have just seen Bailey ( a free agent) perform at the Valley for Millwall, and we are about to see Reed (not cheap / not available) and then the return of Ricardo Fuller next Saturday...
Perhaps next Sunday we will all be in a position to judge what the best way forwards might be... we can all be like fishermen talking about the one that got away ... except we won't be exagerating because we will have seen these players in our colours and the opponents
Good post SJH but I wouldn't give the current owners any credit for appointing SCP. They wouldn't have had a clue who he is and don't know their arse from their elbow. We have PV to thank for that one.
Good post SJH but I wouldn't give the current owners any credit for appointing SCP. They wouldn't have had a clue who he is and don't know their arse from their elbow. We have PV to thank for that one.
So you would have stuck with the team that lost to Bournemouth for a number of weeks after? Really? Would you not have called for changes if we lost the games that followed it?
What I'm trying to get over is that the team (midfield) for Bournemouth was wrong - that was a winnable game from 1-1 plus Boro haven't won since they beat us - pre season should have put us in better shape - the chopping and changing since week 1 is a reason why we're struggling. Any successful team has a consistent midfield.
And Leicester haven't lost since they lost to us - what's your point?
The midfield has been a problem even since our League One winning season. It's a bigger problem in the Championship - it's not going to change without the money to change it. We might get lucky and Cousins really turns our season in there, but in my opinion Stephens is the nearest senior player we have to a creator, and he's so woefully inconsistent, even in the same game.
Why would I care about Leicester - I made my point and stand by it. With regards to DS - if he's a creator, why doesn't the manager play him further forward? Why hasn't he improved as a player? Unfortunately, other than the finance issue, everything else comes back to the manager, which, sticking to the topic, could lead to his sacking. Not what I want, but he has to improve - same in any business.
Good post SJH but I wouldn't give the current owners any credit for appointing SCP. They wouldn't have had a clue who he is and don't know their arse from their elbow. We have PV to thank for that one.
Comments
Regardless of the job you do, the money you earn or the quality of the work you produce, poor leadership equals poor performance.
1 agent, 2 players and a good coach/scout at spurs it varied as to what they knew, the agent has atleast 1current player at cafc
the agent stated the stuff about contracts is discussed between agents and players more often than is good for the players to be concentrating fully on what they should be , he also knows powell and AD very well
the players whom are friends with 2 of our current squad assures me that there is support for powell within the group but a lot of unhappiness with the situations that have been told to some players ref their future and promises that have been broken
the scout/coach was full of praise for what scp has done this season and said that those that know chris have asked why he has stuck it out as he could easily walk with rep in tact
he is seemed as an astute and very honourable man,
He's not been able to do that in the Championship. If money's not available, I think Mourinho would struggle to do better.
There is a touch of the "turn it off and on again and see if it sorts itself out" about it. Although there is no shortage of theory no-one seems to know why some teams fail - why one team of average footballers will punch above their weight consistently and a team of talented potential high-fliers will stagger around the pitch as if they didn't know why they were there. Once your team of well-meaning journeymen stop performing and start puffing and panting to keep up with averagely talented teams the manger is often the whipping boy and the scapegoat and all those other phrases that really mean "we can't afford to buy another whole new team, so it's cheaper to change the manager". TJ and the other medium-sized businessmen that have bought the team don't seem to have any particular strategy that equates to effectively managing a football club either, and in my experience when those at the top are not competent to avert failure or honest enough to admit it, they sacrifice those below them to cover their own shortcomings.
Clearly a big part of a managers responsibility is to motivate players to perform better than they thought they could. But "we can do this" provides diminishing returns without more tangible input in the form of money/players.
What a fantastic post ! I can add very little of any substance.
Every Charlton "supporter" should be made to read this and then seriously reconsider any negative views they may hold of the gaffer.
We will NEVER find another man who is as selfless, dedicated, honest and sincere as SCP - yes, SCP !!!!
In the words of Joni Mitchell " You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone"
If you have to blame someone, then look no further than the Boardroom.
I too support Chris Powell 100%
The midfield has been a problem even since our League One winning season. It's a bigger problem in the Championship - it's not going to change without the money to change it. We might get lucky and Cousins really turns our season in there, but in my opinion Stephens is the nearest senior player we have to a creator, and he's so woefully inconsistent, even in the same game.
Am I going to publish that number? No do me a favour!
1) this is a message board
2) I have no way of knowing if the aggregate number I was given is 100% although you would be surprised at my source
3) even if I did know it is 100% it's not my role to release that number
It is up to the club to publish their view of the numbers and strategy when they deem it is an appropriate time. If we want more detail and more clarity then I guess we are going to have to ask?
Meanwhile we have just seen Bailey ( a free agent) perform at the Valley for Millwall, and we are about to see Reed (not cheap / not available) and then the return of Ricardo Fuller next Saturday...
Perhaps next Sunday we will all be in a position to judge what the best way forwards might be... we can all be like fishermen talking about the one that got away ... except we won't be exagerating because we will have seen these players in our colours and the opponents