Viewfinder, how many training sessions have you watched to come to that conclusion?
I suspect the answer will be none from Viewfinder however you do have to ask the question what the players work on in training as most, if not all free kicks, corners and throw in's generally lead to nothing.
Add to that the lack of defense splitting passes by the midfield or wing play resulting in a player getting to the bye line and whipping in a cross.
Hoof ball does not need to be practiced on the training field so what else does it leave.........a bit of running and a game of five-a-side?
Fair points, but as pointed out above we have scored from set pieces this season, so there's no doubt that players have instructions.
passages of play will most certainly get worked on, but it's impossible to replicate a game situation to its maximum on the training ground.
Also, we just don't have the quality in players. Arsenal, for example, will work on small sided games, keep ball etc and you can tell from the way they play on a Saturday. BUT their average player is worth about £20m so it's easier for their manager to instruct and then expect his players to replicate. Telling players like Pritchard, Jackson, Stephens, Morrison etc to keep it short and simple or be direct in a certain way may be all well and good down Sparrows Lane but its completely different at the Valley. If the calibre of player isn't great then neither is the football.
I posed the question as viewfinder was blaming the coaching staff just on what happens on a saturday. Powell and the coaching staff might be just as frustrated as we are!
'Blame' is not a word I used. The game against Leicester demonstrated that we are capable of playing much better and proves that generally we aren't playing even to our limited potential.
Whether we are coached properly but the players forget it on Saturday afternoons, or the coaching is simply inadequate - I don't know. But the performances on the pitch are clear to see: against Boro we barely got inside their box in the whole game; against Donny we were sliced apart and conceded three goals in the first 23 minutes; against Millwall, a very mediocre side, we had nothing to offer.
I don't believe that man-for-man those teams' players are vastly superior to ours: Millwall, Donny and Boro are 16th, 17th and 18th in the table respectively. So why did we lose?
viewfinder, you are an idiot, moron and a tit, don't you realise that you are not allowed to criticise the Dear Leader, nothing is ever his fault.
The crucial word was 'if'. Of course I wouldn't dare to even think of criticising the Dear Leader. Please don't sentence me to 30 years' hard labour in Erith sewage works.
Who is saying you can't criticise SCP ? Of course he makes mistakes and is clearly not maximising the hand he's currently holding but he's in credit with his tenure at Charlton and with our current lack of funds I don't believe there is a viable alternative whom could come in and turn us around in our current predicament
So you would have stuck with the team that lost to Bournemouth for a number of weeks after? Really? Would you not have called for changes if we lost the games that followed it?
What I'm trying to get over is that the team (midfield) for Bournemouth was wrong - that was a winnable game from 1-1 plus Boro haven't won since they beat us - pre season should have put us in better shape - the chopping and changing since week 1 is a reason why we're struggling. Any successful team has a consistent midfield.
And Leicester haven't lost since they lost to us - what's your point?
The midfield has been a problem even since our League One winning season. It's a bigger problem in the Championship - it's not going to change without the money to change it. We might get lucky and Cousins really turns our season in there, but in my opinion Stephens is the nearest senior player we have to a creator, and he's so woefully inconsistent, even in the same game.
Why would I care about Leicester - I made my point and stand by it. With regards to DS - if he's a creator, why doesn't the manager play him further forward? Why hasn't he improved as a player? Unfortunately, other than the finance issue, everything else comes back to the manager, which, sticking to the topic, could lead to his sacking. Not what I want, but he has to improve - same in any business.
But Boro's record since they beat us has no more no less to do with our form than Leicester's.
As for Stephens, what makes you think he's not improved? He's playing at a higher level against much better players, that fact alone suggests he's more capable than he was in League One. It doesn't however mean he will succeed in the Championship.
This is fundamentally the point I think you're missing. The finance issue is so relevant because not every player has it in them to improve enough to really make a different at this level. Last season we massively overachieved in terms of position, yet this year we have a poorer squad because the finance wouldn't support the same again.
Our biggest issue is that we don't have the quality in midfield, simple as that. Powell's tried to resolve that with 3 central midfielders, it worked for most of the 3-5-2 games but came apart against Millwall. I hear the performance against Burnley wasn't as bad as the scoreline suggests, but without the finance the midfield won't resolve itself. Stephens certainly hasn't persuaded me that he's the answer.
I appreciate your views - I feel Stephens should dominate more and find the odd killer pass - too many games pass him by. It's a shame as I feel he does have something to offer - this is why I feel he hasn't improved - this also comes down to the coaching he receives, of course, and match day instructions.
Yet I look at players like Jackson, Pritchard, Kermorgant, Solly, Cousins, Harriott - all of whom have improved at the club - and I wonder why our first port of call is the coaching staff rather than the player?
I feel Stephens would be a better player if he moved the ball on more quickly. I had the same criticism of Andy Reid, who was streets ahead of Stephens. A couple of his passes against Millwall first half were exquisite, especially one 40 yard cross field ball to Wiggins's feet.
When I first saw him play I thought we had one of the best players I'd seen at the club in years, who would develop with us and ultimately play in the Premiership. Instead, he didn't even last that season out, let alone nail down a place since. What he brings us is unique in the squad, but either he's not making the most of his ability or he's reached the peak of it. And I'm sad to be saying that, really I am.
Those whom get accused of not allowing people to criticise powell have all come on here and been critical but to keep perspective and look at the wole picture
Yet those who only criticise and post things that are easy to disect as crap do not allow the bigger picture to be part of the problem
Those who then post responses to the nonsense that is posted are then accused of not allowing others to criticise powell
Its almost as if they have an opinion and even when their opinion is clouded with holes in it they are unable to allow them selves to change their opinion
Yet those who think chris powell is the right man are able to critique and post differing opinions on his tenure without their pride punching them in the head
Because I hold a different view to you? Very adult of you.
No because we are having a debate like adults. Someone says something, then we talk about how we have a different point of view and the facts we have. All you do is turn up like the spotty greasy kid at school just to shit stir.
Because I hold a different view to you? Very adult of you.
Steve it is simple
When Charlton win it is down to Sir Chris Powell, great manager getting the most out of his players When Charlton lose it is Jimenez and Slater to blame. Lack of moral, contracts ending soon, lack of investment. Quite simple really I am probably acting like a 6 year old but one question I would like to ask SCP is, Chris if you are baffled by our losing so many games at home last season and are still baffled by our inability to beat our local rivals this season as a football manager might you be in the wrong profession.
colin1961 Member 8:39AM Think a lot of people are missing the point..losing games is part and parcel of football its how you lose. If we played well created 10 to 12 chances then lost you would be happy with the performance to a point. But its the way we are playing that putting Powell under pressure. The board don't pick the team or tacics or tell the players how to play that is Powell. Our play is slow and boring , its very very negative and we only create about 2 chances a game and your not going to win games with that. At home when you need to impress your own fans and send them home happy , its mind numbing boring football. Sorry to say guys that is down to Powell, he picked Gower and Hughus at Bournmouth , he keeps playing pritchard wide right and plays our only creative mid player in front of back 3 /4. That is why Powell is under pressure, that is why there was a board meeting last Thursday to discuss his future, the crowd are voting with there feet becasue there fed up with the style of play we are seeing
i'm sure Vincent he would look to the ying to your yang mentioned and reel off the 5 wins and a draw after the millwall defeat and the double achieved over leicester etc and will say that the preparations were the same yet the performances weren't there is no simple formula because there are so many different aspects to a teams performance there is no easy solution but you look to hard work to improve on the weaker aspects of the game
Think a lot of people are missing the point..losing games is part and parcel of football its how you lose. If we played well created 10 to 12 chances then lost you would be happy with the performance to a point. But its the way we are playing that putting Powell under pressure. The board don't pick the team or tacics or tell the players how to play that is Powell. Our play is slow and boring , its very very negative and we only create about 2 chances a game and your not going to win games with that. At home when you need to impress your own fans and send them home happy , its mind numbing boring football. Sorry to say guys that is down to Powell, he picked Gower and Hughus at Bournmouth , he keeps playing pritchard wide right and plays our only creative mid player in front of back 3 /4. That is why Powell is under pressure, that is why there was a board meeting last Thursday to discuss his future, the crowd are voting with there feet becasue there fed up with the style of play we are seeing
Colin, a fair post but its seems we agree that Powell does have to take some blame, he does select the side. However, i dont believe that CP send out the team to play that way. He played Gower because he thought that he would be able to put his foot on the ball and control a game, or at least keep possesion. If Gower then turns in a stinker, does that mean that CP is fully to blame?
I honestly believe that we work on things in training, players have instructions, but unltimately that 90 mins in down to them. We just dont have the calibre of footballer to play anywhere near the level we want, consistently.
Because I hold a different view to you? Very adult of you.
Steve it is simple
When Charlton win it is down to Sir Chris Powell, great manager getting the most out of his players When Charlton lose it is Jimenez and Slater to blame. Lack of moral, contracts ending soon, lack of investment. Quite simple really I am probably acting like a 6 year old but one question I would like to ask SCP is, Chris if you are baffled by our losing so many games at home last season and are still baffled by our inability to beat our local rivals this season as a football manager might you be in the wrong profession.
ask him he goes into the players entrance before every game , he doesn't go in dressed in a mask he walks in as chris powell
i'm sure Vincent he would look to the ying to your yang mentioned and reel off the 5 wins and a draw after the millwall defeat and the double achieved over leicester etc and will say that the preparations were the same yet the performances weren't there is no simple formula because there are so many different aspects to a teams performance there is no easy solution but you look to hard work to improve on the weaker aspects of the game
oohaah I think he is baffled because he has a set of players that on their day can beat anyone in this league home or away but are far to inconsistent. I think we have every chance of winning tonight but it is hard to call because we just don't know what team is going to turn up and neither does CP
that's where i differ Vincent ,i don't think we're good enough to beat Forest tonight unless they are below par and we play to the max and obviously we'd like us to be playing to the best of our ability all the time but unfortunately the ones who are more likely to put in more consistant decent performances are out injured !
Think a lot of people are missing the point..losing games is part and parcel of football its how you lose. If we played well created 10 to 12 chances then lost you would be happy with the performance to a point. But its the way we are playing that putting Powell under pressure. The board don't pick the team or tacics or tell the players how to play that is Powell. Our play is slow and boring , its very very negative and we only create about 2 chances a game and your not going to win games with that. At home when you need to impress your own fans and send them home happy , its mind numbing boring football. Sorry to say guys that is down to Powell, he picked Gower and Hughus at Bournmouth , he keeps playing pritchard wide right and plays our only creative mid player in front of back 3 /4. That is why Powell is under pressure, that is why there was a board meeting last Thursday to discuss his future, the crowd are voting with there feet becasue there fed up with the style of play we are seeing
can I throw this one in, messrs slater and jiminez, tell powelly we have run out of money this is your budget.We end up relegated we have to accept it they tired to give it a go but it didn't work out.What does Powell do, being a god to us will he stay or leave.My only gripe with this board will be if they ARE asking too much for the club.I have no problem with them running out of money and not being able to back Powelly anymore because as with all things you can only spend what you have.They backed him to get us out of division 3, however they no longer can afford to finance the club,heyho thats life, if you have the money put it in.As I said my only gripe will be if they are trying to be too greedy and as yet we don't know if this is the truth.
Comments
Whether we are coached properly but the players forget it on Saturday afternoons, or the coaching is simply inadequate - I don't know. But the performances on the pitch are clear to see: against Boro we barely got inside their box in the whole game; against Donny we were sliced apart and conceded three goals in the first 23 minutes; against Millwall, a very mediocre side, we had nothing to offer.
I don't believe that man-for-man those teams' players are vastly superior to ours: Millwall, Donny and Boro are 16th, 17th and 18th in the table respectively. So why did we lose?
Cheers sjh
Of course he makes mistakes and is clearly not maximising the hand he's currently holding but he's in credit with his tenure at Charlton
and with our current lack of funds I don't believe there is a viable alternative whom could come in and turn us around in our current predicament
I feel Stephens would be a better player if he moved the ball on more quickly. I had the same criticism of Andy Reid, who was streets ahead of Stephens. A couple of his passes against Millwall first half were exquisite, especially one 40 yard cross field ball to Wiggins's feet.
When I first saw him play I thought we had one of the best players I'd seen at the club in years, who would develop with us and ultimately play in the Premiership. Instead, he didn't even last that season out, let alone nail down a place since. What he brings us is unique in the squad, but either he's not making the most of his ability or he's reached the peak of it. And I'm sad to be saying that, really I am.
I agree with Gary tho. You do. And quite annoying.
Yet those who only criticise and post things that are easy to disect as crap do not allow the bigger picture to be part of the problem
Those who then post responses to the nonsense that is posted are then accused of not allowing others to criticise powell
Its almost as if they have an opinion and even when their opinion is clouded with holes in it they are unable to allow them selves to change their opinion
Yet those who think chris powell is the right man are able to critique and post differing opinions on his tenure without their pride punching them in the head
When Charlton win it is down to Sir Chris Powell, great manager getting the most out of his players
When Charlton lose it is Jimenez and Slater to blame. Lack of moral, contracts ending soon, lack of investment.
Quite simple really
I am probably acting like a 6 year old but one question I would like to ask SCP is, Chris if you are baffled by our losing so many games at home last season and are still baffled by our inability to beat our local rivals this season as a football manager might you be in the wrong profession.
colin1961 Member
8:39AM
Think a lot of people are missing the point..losing games is part and parcel of football its how you lose. If we played well created 10 to 12 chances then lost you would be happy with the performance to a point.
But its the way we are playing that putting Powell under pressure. The board don't pick the team or tacics or tell the players how to play that is Powell.
Our play is slow and boring , its very very negative and we only create about 2 chances a game and your not going to win games with that.
At home when you need to impress your own fans and send them home happy , its mind numbing boring football.
Sorry to say guys that is down to Powell, he picked Gower and Hughus at Bournmouth , he keeps playing pritchard wide right and plays our only creative mid player in front of back 3 /4.
That is why Powell is under pressure, that is why there was a board meeting last Thursday to discuss his future, the crowd are voting with there feet becasue there fed up with the style of play we are seeing
Spot on. Best post for weeks.
there is no simple formula because there are so many different aspects to a teams performance
there is no easy solution but you look to hard work to improve on the weaker aspects of the game
I honestly believe that we work on things in training, players have instructions, but unltimately that 90 mins in down to them. We just dont have the calibre of footballer to play anywhere near the level we want, consistently.
ask him he goes into the players entrance before every game , he doesn't go in dressed in a mask he walks in as chris powell
go and ask him and post his response
and obviously we'd like us to be playing to the best of our ability all the time but unfortunately the ones who are more likely to put in more consistant decent performances are out injured !