Re fans not turning up at the Millwall game - it was worth noting how empty the family enclosure was and how few children were at the game especially young ones. Perhaps the Football League/owners of Millwall might wish to consider why this is and whether perhaps a different approach is required to dealing with disturbances when they occur.
CP may have had no budget to play with but when his players are constantly launching long balls forward to be gobbled up by Millwall defenders, I'd expect him to be barking condemnations not pacing up and down with a grim face.
As far as I am concerned – we can moan at the players for not caring, but I don’t honestly think that was the case on Saturday - at least I don't think it was the major factor. I think the defeat was a combination of poor tactics (how we set up) and bad fortune (no Kermogant, Solly or Cort).
If you are playing a team that is going to attack you (as most will away and the better teams at home) 3-5-2 is fine as their ambition will give you opportunities and you need to stop them. At home it can be a bit negative though, especially if you play a team that isn’t trying to beat you, but more frustrate and stop you and take what comes out of that. You basically play with 3 centre halves when you only need 2 at most. Then you have the problem that all the time and space is with these players and our ones don’t have the abiltiy to create anything so end up passing back or to each other until they are closed down. The opposition focuses their efforts on the midfield and attack and stops us!
For me this isn’t hindsight. It was pretty predictable that Millwall would play this way, as will Barnsley and Yeovil when they come here. Chrissy has to develop a bit of flexibility and treat games as horses for courses. If he was imaginative, he could have still started with a 3-5-2, but play Cousins as one of those – then it is easy to change to a 4-4-2 quickly if not working! How we set up with Piggot being totally innaffectual basically meant we were playing with a man or two less! I think it was reasonable to play Piggot, given that Sordell hasn't been tearing up any trees, but the change needed to be made much sooner when it was apparent it wasn't going to work.
Think your right FF im as pissed off as anyone at saturdays debacle,but one way or another we need to get behind them.whats the alternatine anyway.got the burnley tickets hoping for a responce from the players.
"players don't care", "they have no passion" are the most grating, boring phrases that Football fans throw out time after time when results like these happen. Who are you to say that someone else doesn't care about what they do? Or that they don't have passion?
With some of the talk coming from the players before the game, I'm very confident that they players knew that this was a big game for the fans - how could they not? For whatever reason(s), it went wrong on the day. Lack of ability, poor tactics, poor application - all are still possible even when you have so much 'passion'.
Our problems on the pitch occurred when we were in possession of the ball and didn't know what to do with it. Nothing to do with 'passion' whatsoever.
Based on a couple of comments I've seen heard since the game, the players are hurting big time from this one, especially Johnnie Jackson.
If somebody I'd never met in my life watched me have a bad day at the office and then told me I had "no passion", I'd tell them they're a f*cking idiot.
Tom what i saw was people not going in for tackles, the players not involved at half time fart arsing about in their warm up, the fact we hardly shot on goal tells me how faint the effort was, nothing to do with getting behind the team i have been plenty charlton v millwall games where we have made a great deal of noise but still they hardly ever win, its the players and managements fault only, they never talk up the game enough.
We were shit and didn't look up for it. The team looked up for it against leicester. Its not always about passion. Saturday was about guts and bottle. We showed none. We lost the lost the game because we didn't dare to win. We were pathetic and the fans anger is completely justified. I can't believe after an abysmal performances like that , that fans are being challenged for being too critical.
"players don't care", "they have no passion" are the most grating, boring phrases that Football fans throw out time after time when results like these happen. Who are you to say that someone else doesn't care about what they do? Or that they don't have passion?
With some of the talk coming from the players before the game, I'm very confident that they players knew that this was a big game for the fans - how could they not? For whatever reason(s), it went wrong on the day. Lack of ability, poor tactics, poor application - all are still possible even when you have so much 'passion'.
Our problems on the pitch occurred when we were in possession of the ball and didn't know what to do with it. Nothing to do with 'passion' whatsoever.
Based on a couple of comments I've seen heard since the game, the players are hurting big time from this one, especially Johnnie Jackson.
If somebody I'd never met in my life watched me have a bad day at the office and then told me I had "no passion", I'd tell them they're a f*cking idiot.
Agree about Jackson. I thought he looked good in the tackle and didnt shirk one challenge. Then i saw some bloke twitter telling him he doesnt understand what a South London derby means and that he should 'die'.
I did see Stephens pull out of a couple of tackles on saturday though, and thats not acceptable. Its not his style but sometimes you need all 11 to roll up their sleaves and stick their nuts on the line.
100% agree that our main problem was with the ball though. We didnt have a clue.
One aspect of our performance which no-one has commented on was that none of the senior players gave Joe Pigott any encouragement at any time. Anyone who has seen him play will know that this was the worst he has ever played, obviously because the pressure got to him. When Cousins made his debut he had Gower to talk him through it, which he acknowledged after wards. It might have made all the difference.
Hi PL54. Joe is a good friend of my Grandson, also a season ticket holder and Lifer. Consequently we have taken a great interest in his progress, and Saturday was very exciting for us in our family. My strong support of Joe however is simply based on my assessment of what I see of his potential to become an excellent player. Of course on Saturday we saw the need for improvement, as you will see in any young lad coming through. When next I see him I will congratulate Joe on being considered ready for such a game, in the opinion of somebody like Chris Powell. If he asks, I will give him my opinion honestly, but he has a very strong supportive family around him so they don't need me. My family is everything in my life, Joe if you like is an extension of that through my Grandson. If I sometimes take it too far, I apologise, but don't ever expect me to stop.
If you set up wrong then passing is harder as your opponent has the numbers in the areas you need to go through and it is harder to find passes when there is no space - so you end up making poor passes/decisions
Honestly, we looked like we had nothing about us. We would pass it around the defence OK then as soon as it went forward we had nothing. The lack of any attacking movement was worrying. Nobody was willing to get on the ball and do anything with it.
Our tempo was that of a pre-season game, not a derby match against Millwall!
I don't think it was the right team that Powell chose. We had 2 fast, exciting wingers on the bench in Harriott and Stewart. I would have preferred for us to start with those two and take the game to Millwall. I think Harriott and Stewart would really suit a 4-3-3 formation.
A front 3 of Harriott, Sordell and Stewart would be very good on the counter IMO. All 3 players are young, fast and have quality. That definitely would have been better than what we played. Our attacking play was, to be brutally honest, terrible.
At the back I thought we did well. Morrison, Dervite and Wood were all solid and dealt with Millwall's attacks well. It was only a flukey, deflected goal that got past them. The full backs were decent but I think Wiggins needs to improve his crossing. Wiggins was putting in a lot of average crosses when I thought it would be better keeping the ball on the floor rather than losing it so easily.
Our midfield were petty poor. Jackson did well - I think he's one of the best centre midfielders in the Championship. Stephens is good technically, but struggles to stamp his authority on the game for me. The game often passes Stephens by without him making any impact on it. Pritchard works hard, nobody can deny that, but I'm not sure the quality is there at this level. Andy Hughes did well at the end of last season, but he's not involved at all this season. Jordan Cousins has come in and done well but he doesn't seem to get too many chances. We know centre midfield is not our strong point, but was that on Saturday the best we could field? I'm not so sure.
Piggott and Church - that's not a strong front 2. At this level, there's not a lot of quality there. I know Sordell hasn't been great so far, but he did well at Watford and England U21s and I'd like to see him get more of a chance. He is a good striker and hopefully Powell is capable of getting him playing well and scoring goals. I think Kermogant and Sordell will be our best pairing and hopefully that's what we use more this year.
Two average teams settled with a scrappy goal - we must improve on this!
Honestly, we looked like we had nothing about us. We would pass it around the defence OK then as soon as it went forward we had nothing. The lack of any attacking movement was worrying. Nobody was willing to get on the ball and do anything with it.
Our tempo was that of a pre-season game, not a derby match against Millwall!
I don't think it was the right team that Powell chose. We had 2 fast, exciting wingers on the bench in Harriott and Stewart. I would have preferred for us to start with those two and take the game to Millwall. I think Harriott and Stewart would really suit a 4-3-3 formation.
A front 3 of Harriott, Sordell and Stewart would be very good on the counter IMO. All 3 players are young, fast and have quality. That definitely would have been better than what we played. Our attacking play was, to be brutally honest, terrible.
At the back I thought we did well. Morrison, Dervite and Wood were all solid and dealt with Millwall's attacks well. It was only a flukey, deflected goal that got past them. The full backs were decent but I think Wiggins needs to improve his crossing. Wiggins was putting in a lot of average crosses when I thought it would be better keeping the ball on the floor rather than losing it so easily.
Our midfield were petty poor. Jackson did well - I think he's one of the best centre midfielders in the Championship. Stephens is good technically, but struggles to stamp his authority on the game for me. The game often passes Stephens by without him making any impact on it. Pritchard works hard, nobody can deny that, but I'm not sure the quality is there at this level. Andy Hughes did well at the end of last season, but he's not involved at all this season. Jordan Cousins has come in and done well but he doesn't seem to get too many chances. We know centre midfield is not our strong point, but was that on Saturday the best we could field? I'm not so sure.
Piggott and Church - that's not a strong front 2. At this level, there's not a lot of quality there. I know Sordell hasn't been great so far, but he did well at Watford and England U21s and I'd like to see him get more of a chance. He is a good striker and hopefully Powell is capable of getting him playing well and scoring goals. I think Kermogant and Sordell will be our best pairing and hopefully that's what we use more this year.
Two average teams settled with a scrappy goal - we must improve on this!
To be fair though, Millwall weren't pressing our defenders so it was easier for them to look solid and they were the ones who had the time on the ball but that is what Millwall wanted - traditional centre halves having to be play makers and too many of them so they always had another centre half to pass to! Of course you only get to use 11 players so if you have them in the wrong positions and have an ineffectual youngster up front and it shouldn't be too hard to work out why the players were getting frustrated that there wasn't anything on.
Powell didn't do his homework on scumwall or he would have noticed there front two players were short houses and you don't need three great big straping centre halves to sort that out,and Morison has been injured and out of there side so they were not going to play him until the second half
Agree that jackson seemed to have a bit of passion in him at least (unlike the other 10 players). Right at the end of the game he was trying to get the ball from a Millwall player who was holidng it by the corner flag. When the ball bounced back off JJ for a Millwall corner he was visibly p*ssed off and puched the ground in pure frustration.
One thing I would like to see from Jacko is him being a bit more vocal. Whether that's encouragement (Piggott), bollockings (Pritchard) or simply organisation, I appreciate that may not be his 'style', but some games need it. Saturday was the type of performance where we really needed vocal leaders on (and off) the pitch, especially once things started to go pear shaped.
And as for that tool who calls himself a Charlton fan, who went on Twitter after the game, telling Jackson to 'F*ck off back to Arsenal' and die (JJ simply replied 'nice') I really do hope karma catches up with him one day. He was even offering to fight other cafc fans who told him where to go!
Re fans not turning up at the Millwall game - it was worth noting how empty the family enclosure was and how few children were at the game especially young ones. Perhaps the Football League/owners of Millwall might wish to consider why this is and whether perhaps a different approach is required to dealing with disturbances when they occur.
Agreed. I did not take my 12 yr old even though he was desperate to go. I note no response from SLL to these comments. I know several Millwall fans and although they play lip service to stopping trouble / anti racism, they mostly see all this as 'proper Wall passion'. Personally, as a club I see them as a disgusting relic of the 70's that the FA never punish properly because they are lower league. If their behaviour against Derby happened against, say, Arsenal, then it would be a different story. Having to substitute players for their own protection - real passion. SCUM.
CP may have had no budget to play with but when his players are constantly launching long balls forward to be gobbled up by Millwall defenders, I'd expect him to be barking condemnations not pacing up and down with a grim face.
He needs to jump up and down a bit more, shouting and screaming. All the best managers do that. What's Kevin Keegan doing these days?
Re fans not turning up at the Millwall game - it was worth noting how empty the family enclosure was and how few children were at the game especially young ones. Perhaps the Football League/owners of Millwall might wish to consider why this is and whether perhaps a different approach is required to dealing with disturbances when they occur.
Agreed. I did not take my 12 yr old even though he was desperate to go. I note no response from SLL to these comments. I know several Millwall fans and although they play lip service to stopping trouble / anti racism, they mostly see all this as 'proper Wall passion'. Personally, as a club I see them as a disgusting relic of the 70's that the FA never punish properly because they are lower league. If their behaviour against Derby happened against, say, Arsenal, then it would be a different story. Having to substitute players for their own protection - real passion. SCUM.
Similar tale, kafka.
Daughter & son in law would not let us take their 2 children ( who have season tkts) after last season's debacle on leaving the ground and based on the reputation of their so called fans.
Went to loads of Charlton v millwall matches between 1967 and 1990 it was always the same with their thugs making it a frightening and uncomfortable day.I then decided that I would never go to another match which involved millwall as I want to feel safe at football and when that lot are around it is not safe.Personally I fully understand why so few charlton fans go to this fixture its because they are sensible and dont need that sort of agro.There is no other team that makes me feel unsafe like they do .I am just amazed anyone goes to the fixture at all. Then as another poster pointed out there is the added annoyance that our team never turn up either.
My experience of Saturday was quite different from the scenes of tension and hatred painted by other contributors. I approached the ground down Charlton Lane, hung about in Harvey Gardens for ten minutes until ten-to-three, and made my exit after the game through Maryon Wilson Park to Charlton Park. I witnessed nothing but peace and calm. My seat is in the Lower North, from where I was struck by the swathes of empty seats. The atmosphere wasn't the least bit hostile; in fact, the atmosphere was largely absent.
One for the dustbin of history. Chin-up for Turf Moor on Saturday.
Comments
If you are playing a team that is going to attack you (as most will away and the better teams at home) 3-5-2 is fine as their ambition will give you opportunities and you need to stop them. At home it can be a bit negative though, especially if you play a team that isn’t trying to beat you, but more frustrate and stop you and take what comes out of that. You basically play with 3 centre halves when you only need 2 at most. Then you have the problem that all the time and space is with these players and our ones don’t have the abiltiy to create anything so end up passing back or to each other until they are closed down. The opposition focuses their efforts on the midfield and attack and stops us!
For me this isn’t hindsight. It was pretty predictable that Millwall would play this way, as will Barnsley and Yeovil when they come here. Chrissy has to develop a bit of flexibility and treat games as horses for courses. If he was imaginative, he could have still started with a 3-5-2, but play Cousins as one of those – then it is easy to change to a 4-4-2 quickly if not working! How we set up with Piggot being totally innaffectual basically meant we were playing with a man or two less! I think it was reasonable to play Piggot, given that Sordell hasn't been tearing up any trees, but the change needed to be made much sooner when it was apparent it wasn't going to work.
With some of the talk coming from the players before the game, I'm very confident that they players knew that this was a big game for the fans - how could they not? For whatever reason(s), it went wrong on the day. Lack of ability, poor tactics, poor application - all are still possible even when you have so much 'passion'.
Our problems on the pitch occurred when we were in possession of the ball and didn't know what to do with it. Nothing to do with 'passion' whatsoever.
Based on a couple of comments I've seen heard since the game, the players are hurting big time from this one, especially Johnnie Jackson.
If somebody I'd never met in my life watched me have a bad day at the office and then told me I had "no passion", I'd tell them they're a f*cking idiot.
I did see Stephens pull out of a couple of tackles on saturday though, and thats not acceptable. Its not his style but sometimes you need all 11 to roll up their sleaves and stick their nuts on the line.
100% agree that our main problem was with the ball though. We didnt have a clue.
Honestly, we looked like we had nothing about us. We would pass it around the defence OK then as soon as it went forward we had nothing. The lack of any attacking movement was worrying. Nobody was willing to get on the ball and do anything with it.
Our tempo was that of a pre-season game, not a derby match against Millwall!
I don't think it was the right team that Powell chose. We had 2 fast, exciting wingers on the bench in Harriott and Stewart. I would have preferred for us to start with those two and take the game to Millwall. I think Harriott and Stewart would really suit a 4-3-3 formation.
A front 3 of Harriott, Sordell and Stewart would be very good on the counter IMO. All 3 players are young, fast and have quality. That definitely would have been better than what we played. Our attacking play was, to be brutally honest, terrible.
At the back I thought we did well. Morrison, Dervite and Wood were all solid and dealt with Millwall's attacks well. It was only a flukey, deflected goal that got past them. The full backs were decent but I think Wiggins needs to improve his crossing. Wiggins was putting in a lot of average crosses when I thought it would be better keeping the ball on the floor rather than losing it so easily.
Our midfield were petty poor. Jackson did well - I think he's one of the best centre midfielders in the Championship. Stephens is good technically, but struggles to stamp his authority on the game for me. The game often passes Stephens by without him making any impact on it. Pritchard works hard, nobody can deny that, but I'm not sure the quality is there at this level. Andy Hughes did well at the end of last season, but he's not involved at all this season. Jordan Cousins has come in and done well but he doesn't seem to get too many chances. We know centre midfield is not our strong point, but was that on Saturday the best we could field? I'm not so sure.
Piggott and Church - that's not a strong front 2. At this level, there's not a lot of quality there. I know Sordell hasn't been great so far, but he did well at Watford and England U21s and I'd like to see him get more of a chance. He is a good striker and hopefully Powell is capable of getting him playing well and scoring goals. I think Kermogant and Sordell will be our best pairing and hopefully that's what we use more this year.
Two average teams settled with a scrappy goal - we must improve on this!
One thing I would like to see from Jacko is him being a bit more vocal. Whether that's encouragement (Piggott), bollockings (Pritchard) or simply organisation, I appreciate that may not be his 'style', but some games need it. Saturday was the type of performance where we really needed vocal leaders on (and off) the pitch, especially once things started to go pear shaped.
And as for that tool who calls himself a Charlton fan, who went on Twitter after the game, telling Jackson to 'F*ck off back to Arsenal' and die (JJ simply replied 'nice') I really do hope karma catches up with him one day. He was even offering to fight other cafc fans who told him where to go!
Daughter & son in law would not let us take their 2 children ( who have season tkts) after last season's debacle on leaving the ground and based on the reputation of their so called fans.
Then as another poster pointed out there is the added annoyance that our team never turn up either.
One for the dustbin of history. Chin-up for Turf Moor on Saturday.
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