Considering the amount of money invested in the youth academy by the current owners maybe they are now looking for that to bare fruit rather than throw money at bringing other clubs youngsters in on loan or expensive journeymen in the twilight of their careers. Has Paul Hart been telling TJ & MS that he thinks the U21 lads are ready to step up?
I think we all agree that at least two experienced strikers need to be brought in to add experience in that department but given the lack of backing/investment from the board maybe Powell will be told that he has no choice but to work with what he has and utilise the youth players to plug the gaps.
Would certainly explain the worrying lack of experienced strikers 5 days before the kick off of the new season.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. Paul Hart and co have to justify their salary eventually and as money's tight I'm sure they'll be looking for something to come out of their investment.
if the youngsters come in and do well 'he should have played em sooner and shown more faith' or if they're not up to scratch at first "they've been thrown in to early and that could hinder their progress"
like only having one striker with 5 days until the kick off Like leting 3 forwards go at the end of last season Like buying a football club with shallow pockets Like sacking key members of the back room staff with no idea of employement law or back up plan to replace them.
Considering the amount of money invested in the youth academy by the current owners maybe they are now looking for that to bare fruit rather than throw money at bringing other clubs youngsters in on loan or expensive journeymen in the twilight of their careers. Has Paul Hart been telling TJ & MS that he thinks the U21 lads are ready to step up?
I think we all agree that at least two experienced strikers need to be brought in to add experience in that department but given the lack of backing/investment from the board maybe Powell will be told that he has no choice but to work with what he has and utilise the youth players to plug the gaps.
Would certainly explain the worrying lack of experienced strikers 5 days before the kick off of the new season.
Considering the amount of money invested in the youth academy by the current owners maybe they are now looking for that to bare fruit rather than throw money at bringing other clubs youngsters in on loan or expensive journeymen in the twilight of their careers. Has Paul Hart been telling TJ & MS that he thinks the U21 lads are ready to step up?
I think we all agree that at least two experienced strikers need to be brought in to add experience in that department but given the lack of backing/investment from the board maybe Powell will be told that he has no choice but to work with what he has and utilise the youth players to plug the gaps.
Would certainly explain the worrying lack of experienced strikers 5 days before the kick off of the new season.
Slater has absolutely no say in team matters.
I think the point here is that, indirectly, yes they can. If TJ and MS, or whoever's responsible these days don't give Powell any backing in the transfer market then he'll be forced to play youngsters.
if the only answer VG is church or mcgurk then save the money and use Piggott and anyone who gives him dogs abuse during a game if he is struggling plant one right on their bugle and tell them to do one
if the only answer VG is church or mcgurk then save the money and use Piggott and anyone who gives him dogs abuse during a game if he is struggling plant one right on their bugle and tell them to do one
I make you and Lincs right about calling people out who give any of the younger players abuse instead of encouragement.
Church and McGurk have played one game after spending a few days with players they dont know. Its hard for them and the pressure must be pretty intense to impress. Its gonna be CP's decision whether he feels once they settle that they will be Champ standard. Even with Piggott, we need another 2 forwards to come in. Its a shitty situation.
I don't doubt that mate I don't but instead of adding 2 hardly impressive names or stat players onto the wages use Piggott and co until we fond an alternative
Considering the amount of money invested in the youth academy by the current owners maybe they are now looking for that to bare fruit rather than throw money at bringing other clubs youngsters in on loan or expensive journeymen in the twilight of their careers. Has Paul Hart been telling TJ & MS that he thinks the U21 lads are ready to step up?
I think we all agree that at least two experienced strikers need to be brought in to add experience in that department but given the lack of backing/investment from the board maybe Powell will be told that he has no choice but to work with what he has and utilise the youth players to plug the gaps.
Would certainly explain the worrying lack of experienced strikers 5 days before the kick off of the new season.
CP seems to have the choice of signing them up after a few training session and a far from impressivr hour against non-league opposition, or going into the campaign with one striker & kids and hope someone better comes along.
Considering the amount of money invested in the youth academy by the current owners maybe they are now looking for that to bare fruit rather than throw money at bringing other clubs youngsters in on loan or expensive journeymen in the twilight of their careers. Has Paul Hart been telling TJ & MS that he thinks the U21 lads are ready to step up?
I think we all agree that at least two experienced strikers need to be brought in to add experience in that department but given the lack of backing/investment from the board maybe Powell will be told that he has no choice but to work with what he has and utilise the youth players to plug the gaps.
Would certainly explain the worrying lack of experienced strikers 5 days before the kick off of the new season.
Slater has absolutely no say in team matters.
A couple of days ago you said Leon Clarke and another player whose identity I have forgotten were "foisted" on Powell. By who? Jimenez?
what concerns me is that all the old misery guts in the crowd, rather than cheering and supporting any youngster given a go in the first team will be looking for him to fail rather than succeed .. all the know nothing hangdog 'I told you so's' .. I have seen it too often over the years, 'fans' who love nothing better than to moan and whinge rather than support and encourage .. half of players being so called 'Charltonised' is the FACT that too many attendees are spectators rather than supporters and that goes for people who have been going down the valley since God was an infant as well as the more recent vintage who discovered that they were CAFC fans only when we got to the premier league. Give Pigott and co a chance NOW and stop worrying about the loanees and trialists of this world. If they were any good, most would have been retained by their previous clubs
People are concerned about giving 'Pigott and co a chance NOW ' because if it does go tits up, their confidence will be shot to bits.
Players with no league experience can take time. Chucking 4 or 5 in at once will only spell disaster in my opinion.
And your last sentence doesnt count for all loanees and trialists does it. We've seen plenty of players move and do well at a different club after failing at the former.
I take your point about failure affecting the confidence of young players. But two things: 1) I am not talking 4 or 5 being brought in at once, just one at a time , in this case Pigott or Smith with perhaps another youngster on the bench on a rotation basis which has been happening recently anyway, and 2) .. yes, 'failure' might dent a young man's confidence but by no means so badly as being abused, heckled and generally slagged off by supposed fans of the club for which you're playing. I say again, unless Powell can make some super signings in the next few days WE SHOULD GO WITH WHAT WE HAVE and give whoever is selected 100% support and backing.
Considering the amount of money invested in the youth academy by the current owners maybe they are now looking for that to bare fruit rather than throw money at bringing other clubs youngsters in on loan or expensive journeymen in the twilight of their careers. Has Paul Hart been telling TJ & MS that he thinks the U21 lads are ready to step up?
I think we all agree that at least two experienced strikers need to be brought in to add experience in that department but given the lack of backing/investment from the board maybe Powell will be told that he has no choice but to work with what he has and utilise the youth players to plug the gaps.
Would certainly explain the worrying lack of experienced strikers 5 days before the kick off of the new season.
Slater has absolutely no say in team matters.
A couple of days ago you said Leon Clarke and another player whose identity I have forgotten were "foisted" on Powell. By who? Jimenez?
Alonso. Who else could it be if it wasn't Jimenez ?
Pigott is 20 in December, Smith is 22 in a couple of months. They're hardly 16 year old kids.
If they're good enough, they're old enough.
Technically they may be good enough, but tactically they may be some way off. Kids playing against a Conference South side might look good, but play them against seasoned champ players and they might look very different.
Some may be worth the risk though- eg Will Hughes at Derby who seems to know where to be on the pitch, as well as be able to technically do the business with the ball.
As said above, you've just got to trust Powell.
Ahh good, I've been waiting for someone to throw the Conference South v Championship side argument into the mix and basically there is no argument, forget the U21's for a moment, what you saw yesterday for the first 60 mins was our 1st team current balance of players not holding their own against a conference south side, so how the hell do you think they are going to improve become technically better against a championship side. in the last 20 mins tyou basically saw the U21's turn the game around and play technically better football and they are capable of playing above that level in my opinion.
A lot of you really do have to lose this blinkered 'youngsters' viewpoint, like life the beautiful game is evolving very quickly and 1st team players are getting younger and the game quicker and we are not talking 16 17 year olds here, (although, we've got plenty of quality talent coming through at that age as well) these lads, young men are mostly near enough turning 20 or going on 21, plenty old enough for the 1st team.
I'm not saying don't play youngsters. My point is that football is a tactical game. It relies on players knowing each others strengths and weaknesses inside out. A team will start to lose when it has lots of changes, because that knowledge of each other is not there.
My point is that football is a tactical game. It relies on players knowing each others strengths and weaknesses inside out. A team will start to lose when it has lots of changes, because that knowledge of each other is not there.
A fair point - but Smith has been at the club for two years now and Pigott since he was a kid.
By now both should know the Charlton style of play and should also have trained with Kermorgant and the wingers/midfielders who in turn should know something of their strengths and weaknesses. It's not as though we are bringing them directly into the first team from outside the club or from a level where they would have had little training time with the first teamers.
We'll never know how good they will be unless they get a chance and both having spent some time already at the club might be cut a bit more slack by some of the more demanding sections of our fan base. Then again....
Don't disagree BFR. One of Powell's strengths seems to be his knowledge of players, so im sure he and Dyer will get it right. The point I'm trying to make to madadd is that better players can look poor in a patch work team of XI. Put Danny Green in a Champ match with the stable first team around him who he knows tactically really well and he may look a far better player than an untried youngster in the same situation. Then again.....
Don't disagree BFR. One of Powell's strengths seems to be his knowledge of players, so im sure he and Dyer will get it right. The point I'm trying to make to madadd is that better players can look poor in a patch work team of XI. Put Danny Green in a Champ match with the stable first team around him who he knows tactically really well and he may look a far better player than an untried youngster in the same situation. Then again.....
Edgeley I see the point you are making and to some extent I agree and would in fairness say it applies to triallists coming in, so maybe cut Church some slack for yesterday's performance, however, the current 1st team and the U21's / reserves (call them what you will) train together day in and day out, week in and week out and are continually mixed up in training games so they should have a decent understanding of other team mates style of play and likely running on and off the ball.
Wayne Rooney at just 17 joined the Everton pre-season one year, scored a goal in one match and broke into the First Team that season... Piggott may not be Rooney but we may never have that type of player coming through our Youth Team because we're too scared to play them simply because of their age.
And when that happens we either end up with a Turner / Shittu who go on to have good careers where we look on in envy or we end up with Haynes / Green type players who rejoin us a few years later just for a fee.
Blooding the youngsters in L1/L2 does more damage than improve our players simply because of the kick n rush and/or the hurried physical style of play that undoes the good work done by Paul Hart, possibly instilled some bad habits.
I love SCP but it has to be said he's a cautious type of manager possibly with a real flaw in his indecisiveness as can be seen from his late, late substitutions...
Maybe he need Hart to shout a bit louder in his ear?!
I err on the side of caution but we need to get in three strikers and that won't happen so Pigott and possibly Smith will get some game time this season anyway.
Pre pre-season I would have said Smith was ahead of Pigott in the pecking order but now I'd say Pigott is the preferred option - would others agree with that ? and where does Azeez fit in ?
I don't buy the indecision thing. Let's for a second think about Harriott. This is a relatively young man who has seen a little first team action previously with little sign of the player to come. Then Powell blooded him last year and we had our own Ronaldo on our hands.
Each young player will develop at their own rate, and will need to be handled differently. For every underplayed Shelvey there are overplayed Carl Leaburns.
Leaburn scored much more freely in the youth and reserve teams as he came through the ranks, and was even an England U20 international. Lennie admitted later that throwing him in at the deep end became somewhat formative for him in the first team. We all know what happened with him in front of goal, even if he was Clive Mendonca's favourite strike partner.
For Harriott patience has been the key, and now he's one of the first names down I'm sure. I would hate to see Pigott thrown in because there was no alternative, and destroy his confidence in his ability to succeed at this level. Use him sparingly until you see him winning his little battles, getting the odd goal and generally developing his ways of getting the better of his opposition. Then you've got a real player on your hands.
I'm all for giving the kids a chance, but you're not necessarily giving them a chance by throwing them into the first team.
Blooding the youngsters in L1/L2 does more damage than improve our players simply because of the kick n rush and/or the hurried physical style of play that undoes the good work done by Paul Hart, possibly instilled some bad habits.
I love SCP but it has to be said he's a cautious type of manager possibly with a real flaw in his indecisiveness as can be seen from his late, late substitutions...
Maybe he need Hart to shout a bit louder in his ear?!
Blooding the youngsters in L1/L2 does more damage than improve our players simply because of the kick n rush and/or the hurried physical style of play that undoes the good work done by Paul Hart, possibly instilled some bad habits.
I love SCP but it has to be said he's a cautious type of manager possibly with a real flaw in his indecisiveness as can be seen from his late, late substitutions...
Maybe he need Hart to shout a bit louder in his ear?!
This is the same Chris Powell that gave Azeez, Harriott and Pope their debuts last season.
Pre pre-season I would have said Smith was ahead of Pigott in the pecking order but now I'd say Pigott is the preferred option - would others agree with that ? and where does Azeez fit in ?
You are right - Pigott seems to have leap-frogged Smith into pole position. I had a good look at Azeez in the Maidstone friendly, where he was mostly ineffective, pulling wide for balls from midfield that he didn't win. He also should have got on to a gift of a cross in the six-yard box. But he's young and improving....
Comments
like only having one striker with 5 days until the kick off
Like leting 3 forwards go at the end of last season
Like buying a football club with shallow pockets
Like sacking key members of the back room staff with no idea of employement law or back up plan to replace them.
gamble with someone elses football club not CAFC
Church and McGurk have played one game after spending a few days with players they dont know. Its hard for them and the pressure must be pretty intense to impress. Its gonna be CP's decision whether he feels once they settle that they will be Champ standard. Even with Piggott, we need another 2 forwards to come in. Its a shitty situation.
I say again, unless Powell can make some super signings in the next few days WE SHOULD GO WITH WHAT WE HAVE and give whoever is selected 100% support and backing.
Support chris powell regardless of results and focus on what we can affect
A fair point - but Smith has been at the club for two years now and Pigott since he was a kid.
By now both should know the Charlton style of play and should also have trained with Kermorgant and the wingers/midfielders who in turn should know something of their strengths and weaknesses. It's not as though we are bringing them directly into the first team from outside the club or from a level where they would have had little training time with the first teamers.
We'll never know how good they will be unless they get a chance and both having spent some time already at the club might be cut a bit more slack by some of the more demanding sections of our fan base. Then again....
I love SCP but it has to be said he's a cautious type of manager possibly with a real flaw in his indecisiveness as can be seen from his late, late substitutions...
Maybe he need Hart to shout a bit louder in his ear?!
If they're up to it, play them.
Each young player will develop at their own rate, and will need to be handled differently. For every underplayed Shelvey there are overplayed Carl Leaburns.
Leaburn scored much more freely in the youth and reserve teams as he came through the ranks, and was even an England U20 international. Lennie admitted later that throwing him in at the deep end became somewhat formative for him in the first team. We all know what happened with him in front of goal, even if he was Clive Mendonca's favourite strike partner.
For Harriott patience has been the key, and now he's one of the first names down I'm sure. I would hate to see Pigott thrown in because there was no alternative, and destroy his confidence in his ability to succeed at this level. Use him sparingly until you see him winning his little battles, getting the odd goal and generally developing his ways of getting the better of his opposition. Then you've got a real player on your hands.
I'm all for giving the kids a chance, but you're not necessarily giving them a chance by throwing them into the first team.