The average amount of arrivals per Championship club so far is 4.
That may be true but 15 of the 24 teams in the league have to improve their squads more than we do, and there is no guarantee that they will be of the required quality.
Did you watch us last season ?? It was only because we had a great run at the end of the season that we finished 9th and in reality that was a false position.........in April we were staring at relegation and we could have very easily ended up in the bottom 6 and anyone who just looks at the final table and thinks we had a good season is very much deluded
Since then we haven't strengthened the squad, but weakened it. I don't care what the other 23 teams did last season or what they are going to do this season - I'm only concerned about us.
This contract thing is what worries me. It is just crazy to only have 2 players signed up for longer than this season, esp when Morro, Hamer, Solly and Wiggins are young, saleable assets.
As for the youth, if they are so good and so integral to our boards plans then why has there not been some sort of announcement on our website about their contracts...ie, does anyone know if Ajayi is even still with us, no comment about a contract offer and have not noticed him in the friendlies yet...
The average amount of arrivals per Championship club so far is 4.
That may be true but 15 of the 24 teams in the league have to improve their squads more than we do, and there is no guarantee that they will be of the required quality.
Did you watch us last season ?? It was only because we had a great run at the end of the season that we finished 9th and in reality that was a false position.........in April we were staring at relegation and we could have very easily ended up in the bottom 6 and anyone who just looks at the final table and thinks we had a good season is very much deluded
Since then we haven't strengthened the squad, but weakened it. I don't care what the other 23 teams did last season or what they are going to do this season - I'm only concerned about us.
false position what a load of bollocks.
Need to sign some new players though and desperately need to tie down the likes of Solly, Jackson, Kermorgant, Wiggins etc so then atleast if they leave we get a bit of money
GaryManilow - but as i said Harriott first appeared over two seasons ago and then went off the radar. He didnt just burst onto the scene after xmas. He wasnt ready before just as the current lot are not ready now.
GaryManilow - but as i said Harriott first appeared over two seasons ago and then went off the radar. He didnt just burst onto the scene after xmas. He wasnt ready before just as the current lot are not ready now.
The youngsters don't necessarily need L1 or L2 experience to step up. Harriott has had a grand total of 0 minutes of L1 or L2 loan time and now he's considered central to our plans next season after taking his opportunity in the first team and making the most of it. If they come into the team and do well then that's their level. We definitely need to bring two strikers in but I'd be happy if we had three strikers, Smith and Pigott for the coming season.
Its my view this, on loan to L1 or L2 can do more damage than improve youngsters simply because the game is different (kick and rush). Cannot understand the need for "blooding" young players, what if Rooney was one of ours, he'd be just breaking into the first team by now! ;-)...
The average amount of arrivals per Championship club so far is 4.
That may be true but 15 of the 24 teams in the league have to improve their squads more than we do, and there is no guarantee that they will be of the required quality.
Did you watch us last season ?? It was only because we had a great run at the end of the season that we finished 9th and in reality that was a false position.........in April we were staring at relegation and we could have very easily ended up in the bottom 6 and anyone who just looks at the final table and thinks we had a good season is very much deluded
Since then we haven't strengthened the squad, but weakened it. I don't care what the other 23 teams did last season or what they are going to do this season - I'm only concerned about us.
Yes, yes, and yes again. It was a highly unusual season, with most of the teams ending up concertinaed in the middle of the table and a couple of wins being the difference between a relegation scrap and a sniff of the play-offs. That's how our late spurt propelled us into a frankly flattering 9th position. Has everyone forgotten those pitiful home defeats to Palace, Watford, Barnsley, Boro, Ipswich, Sheff Wed, Forest, Burnley, the Spanners...? But I differ from Golfie in that I do care what the other 23 teams are going to do this season; success or failure is ultimately relative to the others. And since the others are strengthening their squads, while we are depleting ours, there is a very real possibility that we will struggle badly this season.
I take the point that it's a worry but presumably the owners are aware of this and will look to renew and extend contracts of the ones that are wanted and release those that are no longer value for money. Surely, the greatest need is to make sure we get money or renewed contracts with those that do have a higher price tag.
The lack of summer signings so far is more worrying then the contracts for me. (I fully expect CP and his staff to extend at some point during the season) I would like to see 4/5 new players come in before Bournemouth. At least two forwards, we need that 15 goal a season man and I'm afraid that's NOT Obika. I'm happy with the defence. As said Wood looks like an improvement on Taylor. Haven't seen enough of Fox to judge whether he'd be a good enough under study at this level so if Evina doesn't sign that might be an area that needs addressing. For me Hughes and Jackson in the middle are our best pairing. Hughes gives us that defensiveness that we lacked all season. We improved as a team when he was playing. I'd like to see us get two forwards in and another pacey winger who can put a ball in.
Raz and ISaw have touched on what i was going to raise as a seperate thread, but i suppose it fits with this.
Currently we have 26 out of our 28 squad out of contract in 11 months time, along with our manager (Harriot and Wilson excluded).
I'm actually more concerned about that than the current lack of arrivals.
Having so many players in the last year of their contract is an extremely dangerous situation. No one wants to get injured in the months running up to being a free agent, and players focus will be elsewhere from xmas onwards.
And several players will be another year close to their mid-thirties (and in a couple cases past their mid thirties).
I'm not too worried about this season, a couple of strikers will arrive one way or another and as long as they're halfway decent and complement what we have we'll steer clear of relegation which is all I'm hoping for this season.
The crunch thing this year is how to find the investment required for a bit of a re-build next summer. The biggest signing the board can make this season is an additional investor or a new owner altogether imo.
We finished 9th last season which ties to the original plan of promotion, consolidation and then another push. Perhaps the club awaits the arrival of TV money before signing players permanently or on loan but if no-one is signed then it is a missed oppoertunity to push on in my book... When I look at the fixture list no-one scares me this time around. I recall how we finished the season over the last eight games and think we can better last year's position. But injuries and loss of form can happen at any time and if the club cannot sign Obika then we need someone else up front.
As for contracts running out in 2014 I am not going there!
However, another way to look at it is that the club have done good business so far by shaving something like £1.5 or £2M off the wage bill. If attendances hold up then the price rises deliver perhaps 1/2M? So the losses are down. Keep that going over time and we won't need a billionaire to bail us out - and that's what I will say to the club next time we meet!
Whoever owns the club there are only two choices - batten down the hatches or go for promotion - we know what happened in the 90s and we know what happened with Pardew!
The average amount of arrivals per Championship club so far is 4.
That may be true but 15 of the 24 teams in the league have to improve their squads more than we do, and there is no guarantee that they will be of the required quality.
Did you watch us last season ?? It was only because we had a great run at the end of the season that we finished 9th and in reality that was a false position.........in April we were staring at relegation and we could have very easily ended up in the bottom 6 and anyone who just looks at the final table and thinks we had a good season is very much deluded
Since then we haven't strengthened the squad, but weakened it. I don't care what the other 23 teams did last season or what they are going to do this season - I'm only concerned about us.
Yes, yes, and yes again. It was a highly unusual season, with most of the teams ending up concertinaed in the middle of the table and a couple of wins being the difference between a relegation scrap and a sniff of the play-offs. That's how our late spurt propelled us into a frankly flattering 9th position. Has everyone forgotten those pitiful home defeats to Palace, Watford, Barnsley, Boro, Ipswich, Sheff Wed, Forest, Burnley, the Spanners...? But I differ from Golfie in that I do care what the other 23 teams are going to do this season; success or failure is ultimately relative to the others. And since the others are strengthening their squads, while we are depleting ours, there is a very real possibility that we will struggle badly this season.
No, no, and no again. It was a highly unusual season, with most of the teams ending up concertinaed in the middle of the table and a couple of wins being the difference between a relegation scrap and a sniff of the play-offs. That's how our unexpectedly poor home form held us back to a frankly misleading 9th position. Has everyone forgotten those magnificent away wins at Barnsley, Leicester, Blackburn, Blackpool, Ipswich, Bristol City, Burnley, Watford and Huddersfield...?
Alright, so I’m being facetious, but I don’t agree that the league being tight somehow means that finishing 9th wasn’t a true reflection of our performance over the season. The league was tight for everyone; it doesn’t alter the fact that we were the team that managed to pick up enough points in those circumstances to finish in 9th place.
Far from seeing our ‘late spurt’ as you put it (if you take it as starting with the Bolton home win, that spurt covered eight games – albeit it in a compressed period of time due to the busy April schedule – which is actually a fair chunk of the season) as an indication that we somehow got lucky, I personally see it as a sign of a team of mostly League One players, with a League One manager, finally getting to grips with life in a higher division. Plus, we also managed to dispel the poor home form that had plagued us for much of the season.
I simply don’t agree that last season can in anyway be seen as a cause for concern. If we’d got worse over the course of the season I’d be worried, but we didn’t, we got better. Most of our players are better players now than they were this time last year because of their experience over last season, and I’m sure Chris Powell is also a better manager for it.
That’s not to say we don’t have any problems - we clearly need to sign some strikers (I think it may have even been mentioned on here) - but last season was a success, and it gives us a solid base for the season ahead.
The average amount of arrivals per Championship club so far is 4.
That may be true but 15 of the 24 teams in the league have to improve their squads more than we do, and there is no guarantee that they will be of the required quality.
Did you watch us last season ?? It was only because we had a great run at the end of the season that we finished 9th and in reality that was a false position.........in April we were staring at relegation and we could have very easily ended up in the bottom 6 and anyone who just looks at the final table and thinks we had a good season is very much deluded
Since then we haven't strengthened the squad, but weakened it. I don't care what the other 23 teams did last season or what they are going to do this season - I'm only concerned about us.
Yes, yes, and yes again. It was a highly unusual season, with most of the teams ending up concertinaed in the middle of the table and a couple of wins being the difference between a relegation scrap and a sniff of the play-offs. That's how our late spurt propelled us into a frankly flattering 9th position. Has everyone forgotten those pitiful home defeats to Palace, Watford, Barnsley, Boro, Ipswich, Sheff Wed, Forest, Burnley, the Spanners...? But I differ from Golfie in that I do care what the other 23 teams are going to do this season; success or failure is ultimately relative to the others. And since the others are strengthening their squads, while we are depleting ours, there is a very real possibility that we will struggle badly this season.
No, no, and no again. It was a highly unusual season, with most of the teams ending up concertinaed in the middle of the table and a couple of wins being the difference between a relegation scrap and a sniff of the play-offs. That's how our unexpectedly poor home form held us back to a frankly misleading 9th position. Has everyone forgotten those magnificent away wins at Barnsley, Leicester, Blackburn, Blackpool, Ipswich, Bristol City, Burnley, Watford and Huddersfield...?
Alright, so I’m being facetious, but I don’t agree that the league being tight somehow means that finishing 9th wasn’t a true reflection of our performance over the season. The league was tight for everyone; it doesn’t alter the fact that we were the team that managed to pick up enough points in those circumstances to finish in 9th place.
Far from seeing our ‘late spurt’ as you put it (if you take it as starting with the Bolton home win, that spurt covered eight games – albeit it in a compressed period of time due to the busy April schedule – which is actually a fair chunk of the season) as an indication that we somehow got lucky, I personally see it as a sign of a team of mostly League One players, with a League One manager, finally getting to grips with life in a higher division. Plus, we also managed to dispel the poor home form that had plagued us for much of the season.
I simply don’t agree that last season can in anyway be seen as a cause for concern. If we’d got worse over the course of the season I’d be worried, but we didn’t, we got better. Most of our players are better players now than they were this time last year because of their experience over last season, and I’m sure Chris Powell is also a better manager for it.
That’s not to say we don’t have any problems - we clearly need to sign some strikers (I think it may have even been mentioned on here) - but last season was a success, and it gives us a solid base for the season ahead.
I think Chris Powell's contract is the least of our problems - it won't be the key factor in whether he stays or goes because I genuinely believe his loyalty is to the club and the fans. It may affect any compensation if he's poached, but relationships will be more important than money.
As for the rest you know what I think of the owners, but for football purposes it can be summed up in four words - THERE IS NO PLAN.
One of my biggest hates of people's opinions on a forum is when they people say "False Position" because of 1. a good start 2. a good middle 3. a good end. The league is over 46 games and in actual fact I'd must rather we have a strong finish rather than start because you can carry on the momentum and confidence.
The average amount of arrivals per Championship club so far is 4.
That may be true but 15 of the 24 teams in the league have to improve their squads more than we do, and there is no guarantee that they will be of the required quality.
Did you watch us last season ?? It was only because we had a great run at the end of the season that we finished 9th and in reality that was a false position.........in April we were staring at relegation and we could have very easily ended up in the bottom 6 and anyone who just looks at the final table and thinks we had a good season is very much deluded
Since then we haven't strengthened the squad, but weakened it. I don't care what the other 23 teams did last season or what they are going to do this season - I'm only concerned about us.
Yes, yes, and yes again. It was a highly unusual season, with most of the teams ending up concertinaed in the middle of the table and a couple of wins being the difference between a relegation scrap and a sniff of the play-offs. That's how our late spurt propelled us into a frankly flattering 9th position. Has everyone forgotten those pitiful home defeats to Palace, Watford, Barnsley, Boro, Ipswich, Sheff Wed, Forest, Burnley, the Spanners...? But I differ from Golfie in that I do care what the other 23 teams are going to do this season; success or failure is ultimately relative to the others. And since the others are strengthening their squads, while we are depleting ours, there is a very real possibility that we will struggle badly this season.
No, no, and no again. It was a highly unusual season, with most of the teams ending up concertinaed in the middle of the table and a couple of wins being the difference between a relegation scrap and a sniff of the play-offs. That's how our unexpectedly poor home form held us back to a frankly misleading 9th position. Has everyone forgotten those magnificent away wins at Barnsley, Leicester, Blackburn, Blackpool, Ipswich, Bristol City, Burnley, Watford and Huddersfield...?
Alright, so I’m being facetious, but I don’t agree that the league being tight somehow means that finishing 9th wasn’t a true reflection of our performance over the season. The league was tight for everyone; it doesn’t alter the fact that we were the team that managed to pick up enough points in those circumstances to finish in 9th place.
Far from seeing our ‘late spurt’ as you put it (if you take it as starting with the Bolton home win, that spurt covered eight games – albeit it in a compressed period of time due to the busy April schedule – which is actually a fair chunk of the season) as an indication that we somehow got lucky, I personally see it as a sign of a team of mostly League One players, with a League One manager, finally getting to grips with life in a higher division. Plus, we also managed to dispel the poor home form that had plagued us for much of the season.
I simply don’t agree that last season can in anyway be seen as a cause for concern. If we’d got worse over the course of the season I’d be worried, but we didn’t, we got better. Most of our players are better players now than they were this time last year because of their experience over last season, and I’m sure Chris Powell is also a better manager for it.
That’s not to say we don’t have any problems - we clearly need to sign some strikers (I think it may have even been mentioned on here) - but last season was a success, and it gives us a solid base for the season ahead.
I know you aren't being facetious, and I agree with much of what you say. I'm trying to say that since success and failure are determined in relation to the other teams in the division, if we were to end up with 65 points this season - the same as last - it's unlikely we will finish as high as 9th. The concertina effect was a statistical quirk that occurs only rarely and may not be repeated for many years. If, as expected, the table this coming season reverts to a more extended range between top and bottom, a couple of wins on the trot won't elevate you half-a-dozen places as they did last year. When you consider that as things stand we have lost seven or eight senior pros, while other clubs are acquiring players to improve their squads, we are clearly losing ground relative to the others. (Praising Pigott and Poyet in this context is irrelevant, because for all we know Burnley, Blackburn, Bolton et al have youngsters coming through of equal or even greater talent.) So this relative decline surely, logically, puts us at a disadvantage - and that's why I fear we may struggle this season.
When the League is very tight, as the Championship was last season, a team's final league table position is not statistically significant. The team that finished fifth, for example, was not necessarily the fifth best team.
For what it's worth the bookmaker's odds on Charlton being relegated next season average around 8/1 with eight teams inside that price. Promotion odds are around 11/1 on average.
I'd say that those odds are probably about right though with the Club, apparently, operating within a very tight budget, 8/1 on relegation might be slightly better value in my view.
I know you aren't being facetious, and I agree with much of what you say. I'm trying to say that since success and failure are determined in relation to the other teams in the division, if we were to end up with 65 points this season - the same as last - it's unlikely we will finish as high as 9th. The concertina effect was a statistical quirk that occurs only rarely and may not be repeated for many years. If, as expected, the table this coming season reverts to a more extended range between top and bottom, a couple of wins on the trot won't elevate you half-a-dozen places as they did last year. When you consider that as things stand we have lost seven or eight senior pros, while other clubs are acquiring players to improve their squads, we are clearly losing ground relative to the others. (Praising Pigott and Poyet in this context is irrelevant, because for all we know Burnley, Blackburn, Bolton et al have youngsters coming through of equal or even greater talent.) So this relative decline surely, logically, puts us at a disadvantage - and that's why I fear we may struggle this season.
You’re right to say that 65 points wouldn’t secure us 9th place most seasons, but it generally wouldn’t leave us far off. Apologies for slipping into sad statto territory here, but the table below shows where we would have finished with 65 points (and a goal difference of +6) in each season going back to the start of the Championship (bit of an arbitrary cut-off, I know). For each season, the figure shown in brackets after the league position is the points tally of the team that did finish in 9th that season:
Also, it’s entirely possible that in a more ‘normal’ season, where the teams at the bottom wouldn’t have picked up so many points as they did this year, that we may have finished with a points total greater than 65.
As for losing ground relative to other teams, that really depends – as others have commented – on the quality of the additions made by the other teams. We only lose ground relative to other clubs if the signings that they make improve them to the extent that they become better than we were last season. Whether or not that’s the case remains to be seen. With the (admittedly rather significant) exception of the strikers, I don’t think the players that we have released have caused us to lose ground.
The strikers are, obviously, a huge concern at this stage, but if they can be replaced with players of similar qualities (again, a rather significant ‘if’), then I don’t personally feel that we will have lost much, if any, ground relative to the competition, and I think we’ll have a very good chance of finishing in a similar position to last year, although I can understand why you may view it differently.
Incidentally, I completely agree that youth players are irrelevant when it comes to gauging the strength of our squad relative to other teams, for the very point that you’ve made.
I think its all looking good - why would the club invest so much in the academy if it had 'no plan'? I think a couple of big striker signings will give those who we want to extend, the confidence to do so and those we don't are replaced next summer with little dead wood on the wage bill. Lean and mean.
I know you aren't being facetious, and I agree with much of what you say. I'm trying to say that since success and failure are determined in relation to the other teams in the division, if we were to end up with 65 points this season - the same as last - it's unlikely we will finish as high as 9th. The concertina effect was a statistical quirk that occurs only rarely and may not be repeated for many years. If, as expected, the table this coming season reverts to a more extended range between top and bottom, a couple of wins on the trot won't elevate you half-a-dozen places as they did last year. When you consider that as things stand we have lost seven or eight senior pros, while other clubs are acquiring players to improve their squads, we are clearly losing ground relative to the others. (Praising Pigott and Poyet in this context is irrelevant, because for all we know Burnley, Blackburn, Bolton et al have youngsters coming through of equal or even greater talent.) So this relative decline surely, logically, puts us at a disadvantage - and that's why I fear we may struggle this season.
You’re right to say that 65 points wouldn’t secure us 9th place most seasons, but it generally wouldn’t leave us far off. Apologies for slipping into sad statto territory here, but the table below shows where we would have finished with 65 points (and a goal difference of +6) in each season going back to the start of the Championship (bit of an arbitrary cut-off, I know). For each season, the figure shown in brackets after the league position is the points tally of the team that did finish in 9th that season:
Also, it’s entirely possible that in a more ‘normal’ season, where the teams at the bottom wouldn’t have picked up so many points as they did this year, that we may have finished with a points total greater than 65.
As for losing ground relative to other teams, that really depends – as others have commented – on the quality of the additions made by the other teams. We only lose ground relative to other clubs if the signings that they make improve them to the extent that they become better than we were last season. Whether or not that’s the case remains to be seen. With the (admittedly rather significant) exception of the strikers, I don’t think the players that we have released have caused us to lose ground.
The strikers are, obviously, a huge concern at this stage, but if they can be replaced with players of similar qualities (again, a rather significant ‘if’), then I don’t personally feel that we will have lost much, if any, ground relative to the competition, and I think we’ll have a very good chance of finishing in a similar position to last year, although I can understand why you may view it differently.
Incidentally, I completely agree that youth players are irrelevant when it comes to gauging the strength of our squad relative to other teams, for the very point that you’ve made.
You make very good points entirely convincingly, and the stats you provide are indisputable. I found it difficult to tally our highly respectable final position of 9th with the many home performances that I thought were really very poor - and I think you have demonstrated that this apparent dichotomy arose because most of the rest of the teams in the division performed to a similar standard as us - or even worse. Of course we are now in the realm of value judgements, and my conception of a poor performance might be quite different from someone else's. Before our late surge there were numerous games in which - to my eyes - we were almost completely devoid of any fluency of movement, any prolonged possession that gained an advantage, any sustained momentum, any tactical intelligence. For example, we would gain a throw-in in the opposition half and then wonder where to throw it - meanwhile, the defenders had all trooped back in to position. The simple, incisive moves that will force the opposition onto the back foot should have been rehearsed time and again on the training pitch until they became instinctive. But things seemed to happen almost at random, or in spite of a plan, or at best only in response to an initiative taken by the opposition. The overall effect - as I saw it - was 90 minutes of incoherence. I put this down to a combination of players with insufficient skills, and deficiencies in the coaching regime.
Yet, looking back, I struggle to think of another team who were substantially better than us, other than Forest at The Valley where they left us for dead with rapid, efficient moves from back to front and side to side. And I think your point is proved by the fact that despite Forest's vast superiority on the day, they finished merely two points above us in May. Further proof comes in Cardiff's - the eventual champions' - bizarre and unfathomable psychological collapse in the second half on our turf, and the sheer mind-numbing mediocrity of the play-off final. It's curious - I recently watched closely an hour of highlights of our 1987 relegation play-off final replay against Leeds and was forcibly struck by how very good we were: brimming with vitality even after a gruelling season, able to beat players man-on-man, moving the ball quickly forward through midfield, shooting powerfully and accurately from outside the box, causing mayhem with rehearsed free-kicks (the winning goal). Admittedly, we were then in a league one step higher than where we are now, albeit at the foot of it. But it occurred to me, watching that video, that I had seen hardly any of those joyful qualities at The Valley last season.
Has the quality of play outside the top division really declined so markedly over the last ten, twenty years? It's an interesting debate, Gillis, and thanks to you I have learned a lot.
If the club said that the plan was to focus on youth, in line with FFP (and obviously that message would need to be carefully crafted so it wasn't "we're broke - lets play the kids"!) then it would be quite positive. I think most of us fans would think it's fair enough that they didn't want to drag us into administration and would get behind a more sustainable model, lots would even be quite excited by it.
But the silence, perceived lack of activity and the sense that Powell's targets (Obika and Evina) who lets face it are only moderate in their ambition feel like they are slipping away from us is what is frightening.
Agree SE9 and if the boardroom could manage to communicate that message to the man who matters most (SCP) then I'm sure he'd prefer that rather than what he's had with the fannying around of uncertainty regarding expenditure for team affairs
Comments
As for the youth, if they are so good and so integral to our boards plans then why has there not been some sort of announcement on our website about their contracts...ie, does anyone know if Ajayi is even still with us, no comment about a contract offer and have not noticed him in the friendlies yet...
Need to sign some new players though and desperately need to tie down the likes of Solly, Jackson, Kermorgant, Wiggins etc so then atleast if they leave we get a bit of money
I would like to see 4/5 new players come in before Bournemouth. At least two forwards, we need that 15 goal a season man and I'm afraid that's NOT Obika.
I'm happy with the defence. As said Wood looks like an improvement on Taylor. Haven't seen enough of Fox to judge whether he'd be a good enough under study at this level so if Evina doesn't sign that might be an area that needs addressing.
For me Hughes and Jackson in the middle are our best pairing. Hughes gives us that defensiveness that we lacked all season. We improved as a team when he was playing.
I'd like to see us get two forwards in and another pacey winger who can put a ball in.
I'm not too worried about this season, a couple of strikers will arrive one way or another and as long as they're halfway decent and complement what we have we'll steer clear of relegation which is all I'm hoping for this season.
The crunch thing this year is how to find the investment required for a bit of a re-build next summer. The biggest signing the board can make this season is an additional investor or a new owner altogether imo.
Perhaps the club awaits the arrival of TV money before signing players permanently or on loan but if no-one is signed then it is a missed oppoertunity to push on in my book...
When I look at the fixture list no-one scares me this time around. I recall how we finished the season over the last eight games and think we can better last year's position. But injuries and loss of form can happen at any time and if the club cannot sign Obika then we need someone else up front.
As for contracts running out in 2014 I am not going there!
However, another way to look at it is that the club have done good business so far by shaving something like £1.5 or £2M off the wage bill. If attendances hold up then the price rises deliver perhaps 1/2M? So the losses are down. Keep that going over time and we won't need a billionaire to bail us out - and that's what I will say to the club next time we meet!
Whoever owns the club there are only two choices - batten down the hatches or go for promotion - we know what happened in the 90s and we know what happened with Pardew!
Alright, so I’m being facetious, but I don’t agree that the league being tight somehow means that finishing 9th wasn’t a true reflection of our performance over the season. The league was tight for everyone; it doesn’t alter the fact that we were the team that managed to pick up enough points in those circumstances to finish in 9th place.
Far from seeing our ‘late spurt’ as you put it (if you take it as starting with the Bolton home win, that spurt covered eight games – albeit it in a compressed period of time due to the busy April schedule – which is actually a fair chunk of the season) as an indication that we somehow got lucky, I personally see it as a sign of a team of mostly League One players, with a League One manager, finally getting to grips with life in a higher division. Plus, we also managed to dispel the poor home form that had plagued us for much of the season.
I simply don’t agree that last season can in anyway be seen as a cause for concern. If we’d got worse over the course of the season I’d be worried, but we didn’t, we got better. Most of our players are better players now than they were this time last year because of their experience over last season, and I’m sure Chris Powell is also a better manager for it.
That’s not to say we don’t have any problems - we clearly need to sign some strikers (I think it may have even been mentioned on here) - but last season was a success, and it gives us a solid base for the season ahead.
and as for Hulls mini collapse at the end what a false position they were in
and Palace they were well in a false position because of their finish
Us Pboro and hudds proberly should've won the league as our false mid season positiongave us a false place at the end
your theory Golfie can be turned upside down and inside out
over a season you finish where you deserve you don't have a lucky or unlucky season you have lucky and unlucky odd games
any player coach or fan (except you) would surely agree that at the end of 40+ games you finish where you deserve
Yadda yadda bing bang bong.
As for the rest you know what I think of the owners, but for football purposes it can be summed up in four words - THERE IS NO PLAN.
For what it's worth the bookmaker's odds on Charlton being relegated next season average around 8/1 with eight teams inside that price. Promotion odds are around 11/1 on average.
I'd say that those odds are probably about right though with the Club, apparently, operating within a very tight budget, 8/1 on relegation might be slightly better value in my view.
I'm looking forward to another exciting season.
2012-13: 9th (65)
2011-12: 11th (66)
2010-11: 11th (67)
2009-10: 9th (63)
2008-09: 10th (66)
2007-08: 10th (66)
2006-07: 13th (71)
2005-06: 8th (62)
2004-05: 11th (65)
Also, it’s entirely possible that in a more ‘normal’ season, where the teams at the bottom wouldn’t have picked up so many points as they did this year, that we may have finished with a points total greater than 65.
As for losing ground relative to other teams, that really depends – as others have commented – on the quality of the additions made by the other teams. We only lose ground relative to other clubs if the signings that they make improve them to the extent that they become better than we were last season. Whether or not that’s the case remains to be seen. With the (admittedly rather significant) exception of the strikers, I don’t think the players that we have released have caused us to lose ground.
The strikers are, obviously, a huge concern at this stage, but if they can be replaced with players of similar qualities (again, a rather significant ‘if’), then I don’t personally feel that we will have lost much, if any, ground relative to the competition, and I think we’ll have a very good chance of finishing in a similar position to last year, although I can understand why you may view it differently.
Incidentally, I completely agree that youth players are irrelevant when it comes to gauging the strength of our squad relative to other teams, for the very point that you’ve made.
Yet, looking back, I struggle to think of another team who were substantially better than us, other than Forest at The Valley where they left us for dead with rapid, efficient moves from back to front and side to side. And I think your point is proved by the fact that despite Forest's vast superiority on the day, they finished merely two points above us in May. Further proof comes in Cardiff's - the eventual champions' - bizarre and unfathomable psychological collapse in the second half on our turf, and the sheer mind-numbing mediocrity of the play-off final. It's curious - I recently watched closely an hour of highlights of our 1987 relegation play-off final replay against Leeds and was forcibly struck by how very good we were: brimming with vitality even after a gruelling season, able to beat players man-on-man, moving the ball quickly forward through midfield, shooting powerfully and accurately from outside the box, causing mayhem with rehearsed free-kicks (the winning goal). Admittedly, we were then in a league one step higher than where we are now, albeit at the foot of it. But it occurred to me, watching that video, that I had seen hardly any of those joyful qualities at The Valley last season.
Has the quality of play outside the top division really declined so markedly over the last ten, twenty years? It's an interesting debate, Gillis, and thanks to you I have learned a lot.
But the silence, perceived lack of activity and the sense that Powell's targets (Obika and Evina) who lets face it are only moderate in their ambition feel like they are slipping away from us is what is frightening.