Carlo learnt his trade in the full glare of the first team at the top level at that time, unlike sopme of our latter day youth products. The battering he took as a youth, I believe affected him for the rest of his career. Still when managers like Lennie and Curbs and players like Mendonca rate him, I am willing to admit to being a fan
[cite]Posted By: Bournemouth Addick[/cite]Defo one of those much more appreciated by his team mates than the fans.
You're right there, BA.
It makes me laugh when you get a player who's declared vital to the team by his own manager and team mates ..... and yet is slagged off by many in the crowd as useless.
Lovely touch for a big man, good in the air and holding the ball up. However he was never a goalscorer and think he would have had a better career if he'd stayed a defender and not been converted to a forward during his youth. Interesting that he's regarded a legend when another player who spent a similar period at the club, with far more skill and talent, a better strike rate including some great goals against some of the best defenders in the world, would never be considered a legend by most Charlton fans.
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Lovely touch for a big man, good in the air and holding the ball up. However he was never a goalscorer and think he would have had a better career if he'd stayed a defender and not been converted to a forward during his youth.
Interesting that he's regarded a legend when another player who spent a similar period at the club, with far more skill and talent, a better strike rate including some great goals against some of the best defenders in the world, would never be considered a legend by most Charlton fans.
I can make an educared guess as to whom you are referring as I have also defended that player in the past.
However in fairness Carlo played 150 plus more games than Superkev and it is 300 plus games rather than 160 or so that distinguishes the 'legend' in this case.
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Lovely touch for a big man, good in the air and holding the ball up. However he was never a goalscorer and think he would have had a better career if he'd stayed a defender and not been converted to a forward during his youth.
Interesting that he's regarded a legend when another player who spent a similar period at the club, with far more skill and talent, a better strike rate including some great goals against some of the best defenders in the world, would never be considered a legend by most Charlton fans.
I can make an educared guess as to whom you are referring as I have also defended that player in the past.
However in fairness Carlo played 150 plus more games than Superkev and it is 300 plus games rather than 160 or so that distinguishes the 'legend' in this case.
Yeah, that and the fact the Lisbie was rubbish for 99% of the time...
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Lovely touch for a big man, good in the air and holding the ball up. However he was never a goalscorer and think he would have had a better career if he'd stayed a defender and not been converted to a forward during his youth.
Interesting that he's regarded a legend when another player who spent a similar period at the club, with far more skill and talent, a better strike rate including some great goals against some of the best defenders in the world, would never be considered a legend by most Charlton fans.
Lisbie spent 12 years at the Valley and in that time started just 62 League games (93 subs) scoring 16 goals. In those 12 seasons Lisbie scored in just 13 League matches.
Leaburn spent just under 11 years and in that time started 275 League games (46 subs) scoring 53 goals.
Yes injury did play a massive part in his career at the Valley but that has to be very much a negative when one talks in terms of Cult status. In fact, for most fans, I would suggest that it was a relief that Kevin was left to pursue his career elsewhere if only for the fact that his lack of fitness ultimately cost us millions of pounds for very limited return on the pitch. That is also why, for most of us, there can be no comparison between Leaburn and his commitment to the cause on the pitch and Lisbie's time on the injury list.
The fact that Kevin's change of scenery has been his making is as much a testament to his resilience as anything else. But, yet another contract on the back of a "promise" could never, in our financial position, have been on the agenda.
Legend - not because he was a great player.. but he was playing when i first started supporting charlton. Unfortunatetly he played in a struggling team... in any other team he wouldve been coached the right way and rested at the right time. Unfortunatetly for him and us we had NO other strikers... hhe HAD to play no matter what.. one thing you can't knock was his enthuism and in many ways before he left to go to Wimbledon (after paretening Mendonca), I regretted giving him abuse etc... When he left Charlton he was playing his best ever football with Mendonca.. grat header of the ball and hold up play for Mendonca.... he had gradually improved. In all honestly he would score plenty of goals at this level I have no dobut about it.. I will never forget the time when he scored a hat trick against Ipswich away.. and getting a train from Ipswich home. I have never seen a station full of charlton supporters in utmost shock and quietness. We all thought we were day dreaming
[cite]Posted By: aliwibble[/cite]But how many of Lisbie's games/goals were in the top flight, and how many of Leaburn's were?
Well, as I said, Lisbie only scored 16 in his total career with us and that the issue, to my mind, was not whether he would score but whether he would be fit in the first place to play. You don't start an average of 5 games a season by being either a wonder player or super fit.
Rudders mentions Leaburn's hat trick at Ipswich but surely much of Lisbie's status was built around his hat trick against Liverpool. Take that out of the equation and there really is very little meat left on the bone be it goals in the Premiership or at a lower level.
Carl Winston Leaburn (born March 30, 1969) is a former English football player who generally played as a striker.
Born in nearby Lewisham, Leaburn progressed through the youth set-up at Charlton Athletic and made his debut in the late 1980s. He also played in the England Under 20's team under Graham Taylor. A regular in Charlton's team for over a decade, he developed the reputation of a striker who rarely scored. One rare highlight was scoring a goal against Manchester United at Old Trafford in the FA Cup in 1994. Leaburn became a cult figure with many fans with one popular chant being the repetition of his surname. However, he did manage double figures in seasons 1991/92 and 1993/94, during which Charlton were contenders for a place in the play-offs. In 1998 Leaburn moved to Premier League side Wimbledon for a £300,000 fee. Despite scoring on his debut, the goals soon dried up and he ended up with a record of nearly 60 league games with only four goals. The Dons were also relegated during his tenure in 2000 and the following year Leaburn moved to Queens Park Rangers where he played only one game before being released. He then dropped into non-league football with Grays Athletic where he scored nine times between December 2002 and May 2005 when he ended his career.
As I stated I was never a fan of the man, and although I unkindly joked about his hold up play, he was a decent team player, probably not greedy enough for me in truth. I always want my forwards to go for a goal when in the box, and the games I saw he wanted to hold the ball off and lay it off. Compared to Hunt, Bent, and Hales, and the best of the lot Mendonca he did not do it for me. Many a time I argued about this on Charlton Live and other platforms. I appreciate he is held in high regard by others, so I guess I miss the point.
I would suggest that it was a relief that Kevin was left to pursue his career elsewhere if only for the fact that his lack of fitness ultimately cost us millions of pounds for very limited return on the pitch.
Lisbie's match winning goals against Ipswich away, Spurs home and Chelsea away in the 2001/2 season earned the club 9 points.
Without his goals the club would have been relegated on 35 points that season.
You could argue that his goals made the club millions of pounds over the following five seasons. Legend in my eyes, as I doubt I will ever have the pleasure of seeing a Charlton player score a hat trick against one of the big four again in my lifetime. Carlo was a legend as well but no where near as talented as super kev.
I never saw Leaburn play so I will make no comment on the comparison with Kevin Lisbie.
However having seen Lisbie play in the Prem, I thought even at that high level he was very decent, i am sure defenders did not like playing against his pace and for someone who did not score many, Lisbie got himself in a lot of good positions. He worked well alongside a target man and as the goals against the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs showed, he could have been a decent Prem striker. When you see strikers like the ones Hull have playing regularly in the top flight, Jason Robers for me Lisbie was better!
Maybe now the Champ is more his level, I am very surprised that Keane is allowing him to stay at Colchester for the season.
It seems there always has to be a goat. Leaburn, Grant, Lisbie, M Bent, McLeod .... all forwards but not all the same in style, so what's the connection ?
I think there is more expectation with potential goalscorers - we need them to do well and score goals in order to win matches, rather than say just avoid defeat (and of course forward play for most fans is the most exciting part of a match). By that token their output can be easily measured and if they don't achieve then it's very obvious. After all, there is no statistic which connects individual defenders with goals conceded (although goalies can get credit for a good goalless run).
Concerning King Carlos, I am 100 per cent for. His career had an unfortunate start and in the eyes many he never ever redeemed himself. The saddest irony was that with Clive he finally found a great partner (Cup game demolition against Forest, for one) and just as the partnership was really blossoming his never-ending contract dispute was settled by a needless and fruitless move to Wimbledon. All parties were the eventual loser.
[cite]Posted By: cafcdan18[/cite]Maybe now the Champ is more his level, I am very surprised that Keane is allowing him to stay at Colchester for the season.
Is that because Keane thinks Lisbie won't do it consistantly at Ipswich?
He's a big fish in a small pond at Colchester.
And maybe that gives him the confidence he's lacked at bigger clubs elsewhere?
Can't be arsed to read every thread but LEABURNS Overhead kick away to Blackburn us winning 2-0 at the run away champions was the best highlight with over 800 Charlton going ape-shit on the away terracing and running onto the pitch!!
I can't remember whether Leaburn was as good as half the fans thought or as bad as the other half thought. Remember him being good at layoffs and shite at one on ones.
Used to have the club handbook and his goals to games ratios in some of his bad seasons were truly shocking.
[quote][cite]Posted By: (1984)[/cite]I can't remember whether Leaburn was as good as half the fans thought or as bad as the other half thought. Remember him being good at layoffs and shite at one on ones.
Used to have the club handbook and his goals to games ratios in some of his bad seasons were truly shocking.
I wonder if he would he get in our team now?[/quote]
Yes, I think he would.
He played his whole career in either the Premiership/(old) First Division One or (the old) Second Division so he would certainly have been in this current team in my view.
Leaburn was hampered for much of his career at CAFC by having a real dearth of quality wingers, Robert Lee, Colin Walsh and Mark Robson (on occasion) excepted.
With a decent winger getting the ball in the air to him, as Walsh and Lee did so well in 91/92 then he would score his fair share of goals because he was an excellent back post player.
Comments
It makes me laugh when you get a player who's declared vital to the team by his own manager and team mates ..... and yet is slagged off by many in the crowd as useless.
Interesting that he's regarded a legend when another player who spent a similar period at the club, with far more skill and talent, a better strike rate including some great goals against some of the best defenders in the world, would never be considered a legend by most Charlton fans.
I can make an educared guess as to whom you are referring as I have also defended that player in the past.
However in fairness Carlo played 150 plus more games than Superkev and it is 300 plus games rather than 160 or so that distinguishes the 'legend' in this case.
Yeah, that and the fact the Lisbie was rubbish for 99% of the time...
Lisbie spent 12 years at the Valley and in that time started just 62 League games (93 subs) scoring 16 goals. In those 12 seasons Lisbie scored in just 13 League matches.
Leaburn spent just under 11 years and in that time started 275 League games (46 subs) scoring 53 goals.
Yes injury did play a massive part in his career at the Valley but that has to be very much a negative when one talks in terms of Cult status. In fact, for most fans, I would suggest that it was a relief that Kevin was left to pursue his career elsewhere if only for the fact that his lack of fitness ultimately cost us millions of pounds for very limited return on the pitch. That is also why, for most of us, there can be no comparison between Leaburn and his commitment to the cause on the pitch and Lisbie's time on the injury list.
The fact that Kevin's change of scenery has been his making is as much a testament to his resilience as anything else. But, yet another contract on the back of a "promise" could never, in our financial position, have been on the agenda.
Well, as I said, Lisbie only scored 16 in his total career with us and that the issue, to my mind, was not whether he would score but whether he would be fit in the first place to play. You don't start an average of 5 games a season by being either a wonder player or super fit.
Rudders mentions Leaburn's hat trick at Ipswich but surely much of Lisbie's status was built around his hat trick against Liverpool. Take that out of the equation and there really is very little meat left on the bone be it goals in the Premiership or at a lower level.
Carl Winston Leaburn (born March 30, 1969) is a former English football player who generally played as a striker.
Born in nearby Lewisham, Leaburn progressed through the youth set-up at Charlton Athletic and made his debut in the late 1980s. He also played in the England Under 20's team under Graham Taylor. A regular in Charlton's team for over a decade, he developed the reputation of a striker who rarely scored. One rare highlight was scoring a goal against Manchester United at Old Trafford in the FA Cup in 1994. Leaburn became a cult figure with many fans with one popular chant being the repetition of his surname. However, he did manage double figures in seasons 1991/92 and 1993/94, during which Charlton were contenders for a place in the play-offs.
In 1998 Leaburn moved to Premier League side Wimbledon for a £300,000 fee. Despite scoring on his debut, the goals soon dried up and he ended up with a record of nearly 60 league games with only four goals. The Dons were also relegated during his tenure in 2000 and the following year Leaburn moved to Queens Park Rangers where he played only one game before being released. He then dropped into non-league football with Grays Athletic where he scored nine times between December 2002 and May 2005 when he ended his career.
As I stated I was never a fan of the man, and although I unkindly joked about his hold up play, he was a decent team player, probably not greedy enough for me in truth. I always want my forwards to go for a goal when in the box, and the games I saw he wanted to hold the ball off and lay it off. Compared to Hunt, Bent, and Hales, and the best of the lot Mendonca he did not do it for me. Many a time I argued about this on Charlton Live and other platforms. I appreciate he is held in high regard by others, so I guess I miss the point.
Lisbie's match winning goals against Ipswich away, Spurs home and Chelsea away in the 2001/2 season earned the club 9 points.
Without his goals the club would have been relegated on 35 points that season.
You could argue that his goals made the club millions of pounds over the following five seasons. Legend in my eyes, as I doubt I will ever have the pleasure of seeing a Charlton player score a hat trick against one of the big four again in my lifetime. Carlo was a legend as well but no where near as talented as super kev.
However having seen Lisbie play in the Prem, I thought even at that high level he was very decent, i am sure defenders did not like playing against his pace and for someone who did not score many, Lisbie got himself in a lot of good positions. He worked well alongside a target man and as the goals against the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs showed, he could have been a decent Prem striker. When you see strikers like the ones Hull have playing regularly in the top flight, Jason Robers for me Lisbie was better!
Maybe now the Champ is more his level, I am very surprised that Keane is allowing him to stay at Colchester for the season.
I think there is more expectation with potential goalscorers - we need them to do well and score goals in order to win matches, rather than say just avoid defeat (and of course forward play for most fans is the most exciting part of a match). By that token their output can be easily measured and if they don't achieve then it's very obvious. After all, there is no statistic which connects individual defenders with goals conceded (although goalies can get credit for a good goalless run).
Concerning King Carlos, I am 100 per cent for. His career had an unfortunate start and in the eyes many he never ever redeemed himself. The saddest irony was that with Clive he finally found a great partner (Cup game demolition against Forest, for one) and just as the partnership was really blossoming his never-ending contract dispute was settled by a needless and fruitless move to Wimbledon. All parties were the eventual loser.
Is that because Keane thinks Lisbie won't do it consistantly at Ipswich?
He's a big fish in a small pond at Colchester.
And maybe that gives him the confidence he's lacked at bigger clubs elsewhere?
One of the best away games!!
Used to have the club handbook and his goals to games ratios in some of his bad seasons were truly shocking.
I wonder if he would he get in our team now?
Spastic isnt the word it was like we had won the cup and league in one game?
Used to have the club handbook and his goals to games ratios in some of his bad seasons were truly shocking.
I wonder if he would he get in our team now?[/quote]
Yes, I think he would.
He played his whole career in either the Premiership/(old) First Division One or (the old) Second Division so he would certainly have been in this current team in my view.
Leaburn was hampered for much of his career at CAFC by having a real dearth of quality wingers, Robert Lee, Colin Walsh and Mark Robson (on occasion) excepted.
With a decent winger getting the ball in the air to him, as Walsh and Lee did so well in 91/92 then he would score his fair share of goals because he was an excellent back post player.