[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite] I don't know how you have done it Len but you have managed to put in a Pro-Kish post in the middle of a Leaburn thread, well played..! :-)
It wasn't intentional honest!:-)
Although now you mention it there are similarities in the treatment of the two of them by the fans......they love ,em or hate' em no inbetween!!
I agree with AFKA...at Selhurst aged 17 he was a regular starter and it must have been dispiriting for him to hear his name being called out followed by a load of boos. He tried but he was partly a bit too nice to really succed at the top level and didn't lack a killer instinct. I accept what a lot of people said about him setting up goals but he missed a load too, unfortunately in his early days his only real rival for a place was the continually injured and always over-weight Andy Jones.
It was about 7am on Saturday 8th November 1988 and my brother and I [15 at the time] were at the bottom of Lee High Road trying to get a 21 bus back home to New Eltham and this huge black bloke joins us at the bus stop in a Charlton blazer and tie and carrying a boot bag. Yes, it was the man himself getting a London Transport bus to New Eltham whereupon he was planning to WALK to the training ground to get the team coach for that days First Division away game in Southampton where he played for us in 2-0 defeat. We got off the bus at the same stop as him at New Eltham train station and walked a respectable disance behind our hero down Avery Hill Road until he turned left down Sparrows Lane and we walked on towards Halfway Street!!! How many young professionals get the bus to games these days?!!!!
there was a young kid on the 202 through blackheath at 1pm on saturday with "junior reds fc" on his back frustrated as the bus was stuck in traffic and he couldn't get to the valley quicker.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]It was about 7am on Saturday 8th November 1988 and my brother and I [15 at the time] were at the bottom of Lee High Road trying to get a 21 bus back home to New Eltham and this huge black bloke joins us at the bus stop in a Charlton blazer and tie and carrying a boot bag. Yes, it was the man himself getting a London Transport bus to New Eltham whereupon he was planning to WALK to the training ground to get the team coach for that days First Division away game in Southampton where he played for us in 2-0 defeat.
We got off the bus at the same stop as him at New Eltham train station and walked a respectable disance behind our hero down Avery Hill Road until he turned left down Sparrows Lane and we walked on towards Halfway Street!!!
How many young professionals get the bus to games these days?!!!!
Chris from Sidcup - This was 1988 and he was only just out of the youth team and probably earning about 150 quid a week, if that! So, a cab was probably out of the question!!!
[quote][cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]Tried his bloody heart out every time he played for us and you can't ask for more than that. He was a far better footballer than many people realised and for most of his time with us he got pretty poor service, it was not a big shock that his best season for us in 91/92 was when Robert Lee was at his best putting in tons of quality from the right. Once Lee went then we never really gave Leaburn that sort of service again.[/quote]
To be fair, this was due to a change of style of play from Curbs & Gritt too. Under them he became like a new player.
Just like to add something else about the Robert Lee quote. Lee was with us for 7 years before that so it was definately due to the managers more than Lee himself.
This Leaburn discussion belongs in the past anyway.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Because Leaburn was 6' 3, we expected him to be dominant in the air - but he never seemed able to jump. He had good chest control and laid the ball off well and, for a big man, he had a neat turn and was surprisingly skillful on the floor.
Unusually for me I am a bit on the fence on this one. I have a similar thought about Carlo as I do about Peter Crouch. They are both tall yet do not dominate in the air. They both had some neat touches but are not instinctive strikers. The problem we had with Leaburn is exactly the same as England have when they start with Crouch as the main striker, namely because they are both tall, the temptation is to lump it up to them and this makes our play far too one dimensional and thus predictable. They are both more effective if they play with a small nippy forward feeding of their knock down and hold ups.
To my mind Leaburn did bring others into the game but not enough to off-set his basic lack of goals.
Wimbledon were giving him the once over for some while before they signed him. I actually sat in front of Sam Hammam at a game (can't remember which) and I asked him who he was watching. He confirmed it to be Carlo. It was some while (next season) afterwards that they signed him. He really didn't make his mark there although to be fair Wimbledon were seriously on the wane during his time there.
In the final analysis he was a great servant of the club and did have a season or two where he lead our attack well but was not the striker to move us up to the next level. We had to wait for Sir Clive to do that.
Yeah, buts let not forget that at the time Carlo was the main man we were hardly flush with other options were we? I mean, until we signed Mendonca in 1997 for 800,000 we had never been near signing anyone who was likely to be a prolific scorer - and that includes Bradley Allen.
Reading Curbs book I see that we were in for the mighty Chris Malkin when he was at Millwall as well as Steve Claridge from Cambridge and Alan Armstrong when he was at Stockport, none of whom were ever anywhere near prolific either.
Carlo was simply the best we could afford for a very, very long time and that's probably why we persisted with him for so long.
Also, I know a lot of people were pissed off that Carlo even played in front of David Whyte for a while but the fact is that Whyte had some major off the field stuff going on, which Curbs alludes to in the book, and could not seriously be considered for selection.
My love for Charlton grew watching Carlo & I loved him. Not in the same way I loved Minto but thats a different story.
For me he summed up Charlton, always gave effort but 9 times out of 10 the effort just wasn't good enough.
To say we got promoted because he left is wrong imo.
He didn't do it at Wimbledon because by the time he got to them they were on the fast track to nowheresville.
Maybe I am seeing things through Leaburn coloured glasses & maybe I just have a thing for players who give it their all but who don't quite have it (Kish, I miss you too).
But as I said, he has a special place in my heart which made me the Charlton mad supporter that I am. So that can only be a good thing, right?
To say we got promoted because he left is wrong imo.
But that's not what I said. His leaving meant that Mendonca played upfront with Mark Bright, a far more gifted player, with more vision and a better goalscoring record, not the "bits and pieces" player he was dismissed as by Mark Mansfield and Kevin Nolan who claimed that we would not go up as we had lost Leaburn. Mendonca could and did score goals with whoever he partnered.
Without Leaburn we played different and better football because we didn't lump it and we had a better player in his place.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]Yeah, buts let not forget that at the time Carlo was the main man we were hardly flush with other options were we? I mean, until we signed Mendonca in 1997 for 800,000 we had never been near signing anyone who was likely to be a prolific scorer - and that includes Bradley Allen.
I agree with that but my point was about Leaburn as a player. You could say the same about Arthur Horsfield. He was Ok at a particular level but not the striker to take us to the next. He scored 49 goals in the old old Third Division in two seasons for us when the options were very limited but we didn't get promoted until he was moved into defence and Killer got established as our main goal scorer. Killers abilities not just got us up but sustained us at a higher level. Horsfield left after we got promoted.
"The problem we had with Leaburn is exactly the same as England have when they start with Crouch as the main striker, namely because they are both tall, the temptation is to lump it up to them and this makes our play far too one dimensional and thus predictable. They are both more effective if they play with a small nippy forward feeding of their knock down and hold ups."
A good point...Carlo played reasonably well with Paul Williams, but it also underlines the stupidity of England playing both Crouch and Rooney in the same team. Crouch + Owen, or Rooney + Owen (or Bent etc) is the wiser choice.
I think that time is maybe dimming peoples memories on this one. I don't doubt he tried really hard, but the impression I got from the matches at the time and from reading VOTV, was that he was regarded as a bit of a joke. Was always so frustrating when he was picked instead of Whyte, but can understand the reasons now. When Leaburn was at his 'height' I became a father to my now 18 year old daughter. Her favourite cuddly was a lamb which kept falling over because of its overly long legs. The lamb has always been known as Leaburn, for obvious reasons. Many years ago when watching Charlton suprisingly beat Villa away 2-1, I was lucky enough to see Leaburn score via a scuffed, deflected shot. The guy in front of me turned to his mate and said that he was going to get a t-shirt made, saying that he had seen Leaburn score. Says it all really, :)
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- BBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!
Imagine what life would have been like without him? Special club is ours.
It wasn't intentional honest!:-)
Although now you mention it there are similarities in the treatment of the two of them by the fans......they love ,em or hate' em no inbetween!!
We got off the bus at the same stop as him at New Eltham train station and walked a respectable disance behind our hero down Avery Hill Road until he turned left down Sparrows Lane and we walked on towards Halfway Street!!!
How many young professionals get the bus to games these days?!!!!
Surely he could have afforded a cab!
Never did it for Wimbledon either.
The fixation with playing him (not his fault) held him, other stikers and the club back.
Any anoraks out there fancy having a go at telling me the game? - without looking it up!
And for him it was a bit of a squeeze.
http://www.givemefootball.com/display.cfm?article=6977&type=1
I can't remember the team he made his debut against, but it was vs QPR that he incurred that knee injury, just after we won the Soccer Six thing.
Once Lee went then we never really gave Leaburn that sort of service again.[/quote]
To be fair, this was due to a change of style of play from Curbs & Gritt too. Under them he became like a new player.
Never did it for Wimbledon either.
The fixation with playing him (not his fault) held him, other stikers and the club back.[/quote]
Well said Henry. I think a lot of you are going far to over the top for a poor forward who had one good season.
This Leaburn discussion belongs in the past anyway.
To be serious though, no I don't. It doesn't interest me too much but if other people want to discuss it, fair enough.
For other users: Carlberg is referring to my comments about sinking on the thread I started called 'Song....'
Unusually for me I am a bit on the fence on this one. I have a similar thought about Carlo as I do about Peter Crouch. They are both tall yet do not dominate in the air. They both had some neat touches but are not instinctive strikers. The problem we had with Leaburn is exactly the same as England have when they start with Crouch as the main striker, namely because they are both tall, the temptation is to lump it up to them and this makes our play far too one dimensional and thus predictable. They are both more effective if they play with a small nippy forward feeding of their knock down and hold ups.
To my mind Leaburn did bring others into the game but not enough to off-set his basic lack of goals.
Wimbledon were giving him the once over for some while before they signed him. I actually sat in front of Sam Hammam at a game (can't remember which) and I asked him who he was watching. He confirmed it to be Carlo. It was some while (next season) afterwards that they signed him. He really didn't make his mark there although to be fair Wimbledon were seriously on the wane during his time there.
In the final analysis he was a great servant of the club and did have a season or two where he lead our attack well but was not the striker to move us up to the next level. We had to wait for Sir Clive to do that.
Reading Curbs book I see that we were in for the mighty Chris Malkin when he was at Millwall as well as Steve Claridge from Cambridge and Alan Armstrong when he was at Stockport, none of whom were ever anywhere near prolific either.
Carlo was simply the best we could afford for a very, very long time and that's probably why we persisted with him for so long.
Also, I know a lot of people were pissed off that Carlo even played in front of David Whyte for a while but the fact is that Whyte had some major off the field stuff going on, which Curbs alludes to in the book, and could not seriously be considered for selection.
For me he summed up Charlton, always gave effort but 9 times out of 10 the effort just wasn't good enough.
To say we got promoted because he left is wrong imo.
He didn't do it at Wimbledon because by the time he got to them they were on the fast track to nowheresville.
Maybe I am seeing things through Leaburn coloured glasses & maybe I just have a thing for players who give it their all but who don't quite have it (Kish, I miss you too).
But as I said, he has a special place in my heart which made me the Charlton mad supporter that I am. So that can only be a good thing, right?
But that's not what I said. His leaving meant that Mendonca played upfront with Mark Bright, a far more gifted player, with more vision and a better goalscoring record, not the "bits and pieces" player he was dismissed as by Mark Mansfield and Kevin Nolan who claimed that we would not go up as we had lost Leaburn. Mendonca could and did score goals with whoever he partnered.
Without Leaburn we played different and better football because we didn't lump it and we had a better player in his place.
that's what you said
sounds like it to me?????
or am I just being pedantic ;-)
I agree with that but my point was about Leaburn as a player. You could say the same about Arthur Horsfield. He was Ok at a particular level but not the striker to take us to the next. He scored 49 goals in the old old Third Division in two seasons for us when the options were very limited but we didn't get promoted until he was moved into defence and Killer got established as our main goal scorer. Killers abilities not just got us up but sustained us at a higher level. Horsfield left after we got promoted.
to be pedantic myself what you doing is wrongly inferring rather than being pedantic ;-)
oh stop being so pedantic! & it's you're ;-)
A good point...Carlo played reasonably well with Paul Williams, but it also underlines the stupidity of England playing both Crouch and Rooney in the same team. Crouch + Owen, or Rooney + Owen (or Bent etc) is the wiser choice.