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Charge to use Blackwall Tunnel
Comments
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What a threadFriend Or Defoe said:#ArgumentAlert1 -
It's demand ffs.golfaddick said:
For me it's not even about people further West not having to pay to cross the Thames.....its about people in one community having to pay an excess charge to use the crossings & people in another community only having to pay the standard charge even though both sets of people are going to & from the same places.Rizzo said:
People are complaining that those of us in the Southeast have to pay to cross the river whereas those further West do not. Start charging everywhere if you must but don't single out a particular region.Radostanradical said:
This is literally a thread of people complaining.....................SporadicAddick said:
Said everyone…Radostanradical said:
People have literally been complaining for years about the lack of infrastructure south of the river, lets not revise history. A simple google will show you its true. Why has the new crossing been worked on for 20 years now if there was not any demandOff_it said:
Said absolutely nobodyRadostanradical said:
"We want better public services and transport routes but we dont want to have to pay for them"Off_it said:
But a "peak period" is a peak period. Like on the trains - you pay more during certain hours and it's not any cheaper coming out of London than going in.AFKABartram said:
Come on Golfie, it doesn’t take much to work out that the peak period is people traveling into London in the morning midweek and people traveling out of London in the afternoon midweek.golfaddick said:I'm still trying to get my head round this.
Are "peak times" just 6-10am northbound & 4-7pm southbound ? And "off peak" is all other times. Thus, if you travel southbound between 6 & 10 am you are only charged "off peak" rates.
If so that is discrimateray and needs to be challenged in the Courts
if the toll costs are £1.50 at all other times (and free 10pm - 6am), then it’s a little friendlier than I was fearing
Only applying the additional charge in one direction is effectively a tax on those coming from south-east London, which stinks.
it’s the bit about not wanting to pay that is amusing.
Person A lives in Bromley & goes to Finchley at 9am.
Person B lives in Finchley and goes to Bromley at 9am
Only person A pays the higher "peak" charge.
That is discrimation.3 -
I'd go straight through London, Bromley to Finchley0
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Best way to do that is on the train and tube.Gribbo said:I'd go straight through London, Bromley to Finchley0 -
Leroy is growing back into this place. Delighted to see it, boss!Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...3 -
Charging people to use the tunnel will ease congestion just like the congestion charge has done which means London isn't the most congested city 4 years running.4
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You won't get a car on the train or tube in the rush hourFriend Or Defoe said:
Best way to do that is on the train and tube.Gribbo said:I'd go straight through London, Bromley to Finchley4 -
I’d be very surprised if that is the outcome.O-Randy-Hunt said:Charging people to use the tunnel will ease congestion just like the congestion charge has done which means London isn't the most congested city 4 years running.If that logic were correct surely you’d have introduced the charge regardless of the new tunnel?
I suggest the majority (not all) that use the tunnel don’t have a viable (cost or time) alternative.0 -
Tongue in cheek. TFL charge £15 a day to enter the congestion zone and we are still the most congested city in Europe.valleynick66 said:
I’d be very surprised if that is the outcome.O-Randy-Hunt said:Charging people to use the tunnel will ease congestion just like the congestion charge has done which means London isn't the most congested city 4 years running.If that logic were correct surely you’d have introduced the charge regardless of the new tunnel?
I suggest the majority (not all) that use the tunnel don’t have a viable (cost or time) alternative.3 -
We arent though ? in fact we have gone from 3rd to 5th. - The UK's 10 most congested cities with the worst traffic | RAC DriveO-Randy-Hunt said:Charging people to use the tunnel will ease congestion just like the congestion charge has done which means London isn't the most congested city 4 years running.
It was cute you thought you had a point though.3 -
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For real? 🤣🤣🤣valleynick66 said:
People drive because the public transport is NOT an adequate alternative.Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...
Go literally anywhere in the country other than the Southeast if you want to see 'inadequate' public transport. From West Lancashire (an area with a population of around 600,000 people) there is ONE train line into Manchester - at least 30% of trains are cancelled in rush hour in either direction, and 70% are delayed. Most trains are completely full by the time they reach Bolton - still 20 miles away from Manchester. If you're lucky, from most towns there is a bus service - around 1 an hour (and you'll need to change at least once from most destinations, twice if you live further out than Bolton/Warrington/Wigan.
You have no idea what 'inadequate public transport' means - until I moved up here I didn't believe it either.10 -
Need my fix of pointless rowing since I quit Twatter 🤣Siv_in_Norfolk said:
Leroy is growing back into this place. Delighted to see it, boss!Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...3 -
Leroy Ambrose said:
Need my fix of pointless rowing since I quit Twatter 🤣Siv_in_Norfolk said:
Leroy is growing back into this place. Delighted to see it, boss!Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...
6 -
Aww its cute you are talking globally we are only the 5th most congested city and not the most congested city in Europe.Radostanradical said:
We arent though ? in fact we have gone from 3rd to 5th. - The UK's 10 most congested cities with the worst traffic | RAC DriveO-Randy-Hunt said:Charging people to use the tunnel will ease congestion just like the congestion charge has done which means London isn't the most congested city 4 years running.
It was cute you thought you had a point though.
0 -
On the upside apparently when the Silvertown Tunnel is opened the Superloop Four will start going from Grove Park to Canary Wharf.
Landing in a pot of jam living in Lee.0 -
Not the point though. It may be better than rural or other metropolitan centres but that doesn’t make it sufficient for Londoners to give up their cars.Leroy Ambrose said:
For real? 🤣🤣🤣valleynick66 said:
People drive because the public transport is NOT an adequate alternative.Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...
Go literally anywhere in the country other than the Southeast if you want to see 'inadequate' public transport. From West Lancashire (an area with a population of around 600,000 people) there is ONE train line into Manchester - at least 30% of trains are cancelled in rush hour in either direction, and 70% are delayed. Most trains are completely full by the time they reach Bolton - still 20 miles away from Manchester. If you're lucky, from most towns there is a bus service - around 1 an hour (and you'll need to change at least once from most destinations, twice if you live further out than Bolton/Warrington/Wigan.
You have no idea what 'inadequate public transport' means - until I moved up here I didn't believe it either.Also being in London doesn’t mean I don’t travel elsewhere and why I might be on the road using the tunnel !1 -
It's nothing to do with "thinking it through" but to do with penalizing 1 sector of the public just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...
In your first paragraph you talk about peak fares & people working shifts. That is also true for the new Blackwall Tunnel charge where people working late shifts will be charged differently to those working "days". But that's not my point. My point is that people working the same shifts are being charged differently just because of where they live.
Would you think it's fair if only people commutimg into London from Dartford on SouthEastern trains were charged peak fares & those travelling into London from Essex on C2C were charged off peak, even though they were travelling in at the same time.
Perhaps it is me after all 🤷♂️.10 -
Drove through there the other day. The newsagents by the train station looked a but run down, there was a decent looking one on the opposite side of the road though.Gribbo said:
What a placeseth plum said:On the upside apparently when the Silvertown Tunnel is opened the Superloop Four will start going from Grove Park to Canary Wharf.
Landing in a pot of jam living in Lee.1 -
Does anyone know the figures for people travelling from south to north vs north to south west of the Rotherhithe tunnel? I see that some people are suggesting that the fact that they cross for free is what is discriminatory, rather than the south v north charges in the new tunnel? Just wondering if there is any validity in the argument?0
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So by your logic, train companies are discriminating if Southeastern fine people who dont pay for tickets or if the council fines people who park without a ticket ?golfaddick said:
It's nothing to do with "thinking it through" but to do with penalizing 1 sector of the public just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...
In your first paragraph you talk about peak fares & people working shifts. That is also true for the new Blackwall Tunnel charge where people working late shifts will be charged differently to those working "days". But that's not my point. My point is that people working the same shifts are being charged differently just because of where they live.
Would you think it's fair if only people commutimg into London from Dartford on SouthEastern trains were charged peak fares & those travelling into London from Essex on C2C were charged off peak, even though they were travelling in at the same time.
Perhaps it is me after all 🤷♂️.1 -
It’s only peak time in one direction though.golfaddick said:
It's nothing to do with "thinking it through" but to do with penalizing 1 sector of the public just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...
In your first paragraph you talk about peak fares & people working shifts. That is also true for the new Blackwall Tunnel charge where people working late shifts will be charged differently to those working "days". But that's not my point. My point is that people working the same shifts are being charged differently just because of where they live.
Would you think it's fair if only people commutimg into London from Dartford on SouthEastern trains were charged peak fares & those travelling into London from Essex on C2C were charged off peak, even though they were travelling in at the same time.
Perhaps it is me after all 🤷♂️.0 -
I thought that the charging was to pay for the new tunnel, not a 'congestion charge', so why shouldn't all journeys at any time, regardless of direction not cost the same?5
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Exactly.TonyCafc said:I thought that the charging was to pay for the new tunnel, not a 'congestion charge', so why shouldn't all journeys at any time, regardless of direction not cost the same?
One for TFL to answer.2 -
That is my point.Stu_of_Kunming said:
It’s only peak time in one direction though.golfaddick said:
It's nothing to do with "thinking it through" but to do with penalizing 1 sector of the public just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...
In your first paragraph you talk about peak fares & people working shifts. That is also true for the new Blackwall Tunnel charge where people working late shifts will be charged differently to those working "days". But that's not my point. My point is that people working the same shifts are being charged differently just because of where they live.
Would you think it's fair if only people commutimg into London from Dartford on SouthEastern trains were charged peak fares & those travelling into London from Essex on C2C were charged off peak, even though they were travelling in at the same time.
Perhaps it is me after all 🤷♂️.
Peak time happens twice a day. Going north in the morning & south in the evenings.
Makes no sense.2 -
My mate Ray Milner used to run that oneAlwaysneil said:
Drove through there the other day. The newsagents by the train station looked a but run down, there was a decent looking one on the opposite side of the road though.Gribbo said:
What a placeseth plum said:On the upside apparently when the Silvertown Tunnel is opened the Superloop Four will start going from Grove Park to Canary Wharf.
Landing in a pot of jam living in Lee.0 -
Doesn't bother me as I don't use it, I think it will have quite an impact on many commuters from South London though.
My guess is it will definitely change a fair few people's behaviour. Some will decide to get public transport, some will look for another job closer to home/where they can avoid the tunnel etc. Which I suppose is exactly the point!
£8 a day is a fair whack.0 -
To balance the responsibility to those who use it more frequently and ensure that it doesn't become unmanageable during peak times.TonyCafc said:I thought that the charging was to pay for the new tunnel, not a 'congestion charge', so why shouldn't all journeys at any time, regardless of direction not cost the same?1 -
Yea when the majority of cars are on the road travelling ? It's really not difficult to understand.golfaddick said:
That is my point.Stu_of_Kunming said:
It’s only peak time in one direction though.golfaddick said:
It's nothing to do with "thinking it through" but to do with penalizing 1 sector of the public just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...
In your first paragraph you talk about peak fares & people working shifts. That is also true for the new Blackwall Tunnel charge where people working late shifts will be charged differently to those working "days". But that's not my point. My point is that people working the same shifts are being charged differently just because of where they live.
Would you think it's fair if only people commutimg into London from Dartford on SouthEastern trains were charged peak fares & those travelling into London from Essex on C2C were charged off peak, even though they were travelling in at the same time.
Perhaps it is me after all 🤷♂️.
Peak time happens twice a day. Going north in the morning & south in the evenings.
Makes no sense.1 -
I think it is for you.Radostanradical said:
Yea when the majority of cars are on the road travelling ? It's really not difficult to understand.golfaddick said:
That is my point.Stu_of_Kunming said:
It’s only peak time in one direction though.golfaddick said:
It's nothing to do with "thinking it through" but to do with penalizing 1 sector of the public just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:
You don't call peak fares on public transport 'discrimination' based on the fact that people who work afternoons or nights don't have to pay them. Measures are being put in place to try and cut the use of cars to ease congestion and pollution, ffs - London has arguably the most extensive public transport system in the world and people STILL won't guve up their sodding cars. What do you propose is done about the absolute gridlock caused on the roads when we the Blackwall Tunnel is shut? How do you propose new crossings are funded? Charging people to drive AWAY from congestion would be a monumentally stupid idea as it would be counterproductive.golfaddick said:
Of course its discrimination. What do you call it if one set of people are treated differently to another just because of where they live.Leroy Ambrose said:I've heard it all now. It's discriminatory to implement a congestion charge in one direction (the congested one) because people who travel in that direction are going to be charged, whilst people who travel in the opposite (uncongested) one aren't.
Do you hear yourself? 🤣
If all you are trying to do is reduce the congestion then perhaps it might be better to get rid of the road completely & make people walk !!
You've not thought this through...
In your first paragraph you talk about peak fares & people working shifts. That is also true for the new Blackwall Tunnel charge where people working late shifts will be charged differently to those working "days". But that's not my point. My point is that people working the same shifts are being charged differently just because of where they live.
Would you think it's fair if only people commutimg into London from Dartford on SouthEastern trains were charged peak fares & those travelling into London from Essex on C2C were charged off peak, even though they were travelling in at the same time.
Perhaps it is me after all 🤷♂️.
Peak time happens twice a day. Going north in the morning & south in the evenings.
Makes no sense.
Its got nothing to do with the amount of traffic.
There will now be a charge for using the Blackwall Tunnel. The charge is increased at peak times.......FOR TRAVEL IN ONE DIRECTION ONLY.
I give up. I suspect I'm being trolled so this will be my last say on the matter.6
