It's sitting down wot done it. You simply can't fill your lungs and belt out a tune if you're sitting down. Also the crowd is too mixed, families, kids, olduns all lumped together. Away fans are usually just a bunch of blokes.
This!
Plus the Premiership brought in all the prawn sandwich brigade from Kent etc who don't sing. Apart from the odd few, The Premiership has killed so many teams support.
We always had loyal fans coming from Kent way before the premiership years, it is part of the history of the club.
It's sitting down wot done it. You simply can't fill your lungs and belt out a tune if you're sitting down. Also the crowd is too mixed, families, kids, olduns all lumped together. Away fans are usually just a bunch of blokes.
This!
Plus the Premiership brought in all the prawn sandwich brigade from Kent etc who don't sing. Apart from the odd few, The Premiership has killed so many teams support.
We always had loyal fans coming from Kent way before the premiership years, it is part of the history of the club.
When I first started going I lived in Kent,Charlton have always had a large support from NW Kent, many Londoners moved out that way, particularly after WWII.
Some bizarre views on here, including the idea that people from Kent are somehow responsible for reducing the noise in the ground. I think it has more to do with smaller crowds and crap football over the last few years.
The nature of the segregation - permanent or otherwise - makes very little difference to the cost of splitting the Jimmy Seed Stand. A permanent split would often be in the wrong place. Stewards and police would still be required, facilities would still be inadequate on the Valley Grove side.
If we sold season tickets in that end then we wouldn't be able to accommodate, say, Leeds United bringing 3,400 people. We have to accommodate 2,000 away fans if requested by the away club under the rules, so the most you could put in there on a permanent basis is 1,000. Leaving aside the other issues, those 1,400 extra away fans are worth about £25k net to the club in ticket revenue for that one game.
We have and will continue to segregate the Jimmy Seed Stand when home ticket sales justify it, despite the fact that the police are opposed to us doing so, largely on the basis of the behaviour of some of our supporters when we do. Otherwise it isn't going to happen, because financially it would be a very stupid thing to do.
are the people who don't go many away away games complaining about the noise at the valley? i've been to 11 away games this season and none have been noisey. the huddersfield fans were quite noisey but they were winning for most of the game against the league leaders. didn't make sheff wed but i heard they were noisey but at bramell lane we put the home support to shame because i didn't hear them once. if going away was the same price as going to home games i would pick away games every single time. this is nothing new to anyone that away fans are noisier. everyone whinges about there home support. this season hasn't been helped by low crowds and expectation. lets just get on with it and face facts that are away fans are normally on a day out and are going to make the most of itand the home fans are the never going to be as revved for it.
Some bizarre views on here, including the idea that people from Kent are somehow responsible for reducing the noise in the ground. I think it has more to do with smaller crowds and crap football over the last few years.
The nature of the segregation - permanent or otherwise - makes very little difference to the cost of splitting the Jimmy Seed Stand. A permanent split would often be in the wrong place. Stewards and police would still be required, facilities would still be inadequate on the Valley Grove side.
If we sold season tickets in that end then we wouldn't be able to accommodate, say, Leeds United bringing 3,400 people. We have to accommodate 2,000 away fans if requested by the away club under the rules, so the most you could put in there on a permanent basis is 1,000. Leaving aside the other issues, those 1,400 extra away fans are worth about £25k net to the club in ticket revenue for that one game.
We have and will continue to segregate the Jimmy Seed Stand when home ticket sales justify it, despite the fact that the police are opposed to us doing so, largely on the basis of the behaviour of some of our supporters when we do. Otherwise it isn't going to happen, because financially it would be a very stupid thing to do.
fair enough Airman i appreciate your more structured answer as someone in the know,but their is nothing wrong with asking nor suggesting ideas on this forum afrter all we dont want to stand still,we all want progress and to improve on what looks like a solid foundation again.most of the time 1000 brains suggesting ideas and all working together for the same goal is better than one.
Pardew wanted away fans moved away from the JS stand, to get Charlton fans behind both goals. I presume to keep the same segregated entrance for them, they would have to go somewhere at the south end of the West Stand - certainly the upper section down that end only seems to have about 6 lonely people there, so it would be easier than moving S/T holders out of the lower West or East stands, and they wouldn't be next to the lounges and executive boxes.
Maybe if/when the ground is fully developed, they can have the SW corner.
Or perhaps we should swap the away fans with the Upper North 'noisy' Charlton fans, so that we can decide once and for all whether the JS Stand accoustics are really the best in the ground :-)
you would think with the jimmy seed being built back in the late 70's early 80's that accoustics were probably not on the designers list of must do's however with the north revamp in 1998/9 accoustics must have been on the list and therfore thought about i would imagine, maybe just maybe we dont make enough noise.. BDL tells us every week what to do yet we chose to ignore him.
Hasn't this season proved that the atmosphere makes no difference what-so-ever. We have by far the best team, yet cannot claim to have the most, nor the loudest home/away fans.
It may effect people's enjoyment of the game, but there isn't much evidence to suggest it makes the team play better.
I accept that a negative atmosphere can make the team perform worse, but I'm not sure the converse is true.
are the people who don't go many away away games complaining about the noise at the valley? i've been to 11 away games this season and none have been noisey. the huddersfield fans were quite noisey but they were winning for most of the game against the league leaders. didn't make sheff wed but i heard they were noisey but at bramell lane we put the home support to shame because i didn't hear them once. if going away was the same price as going to home games i would pick away games every single time. this is nothing new to anyone that away fans are noisier. everyone whinges about there home support. this season hasn't been helped by low crowds and expectation. lets just get on with it and face facts that are away fans are normally on a day out and are going to make the most of itand the home fans are the never going to be as revved for it.
Please bear in mind your influence on the home grounds you attend as away games.
Charlton, as you all know, are regarded as a safe, family, happy clappy club, where the majority of away fans turn up in replica shirts (even if they are aged over 16) and rarely set the pulses racing of the homes teams more passionate support.
Quite often the atmosphere at a game is dictated by the to & fro between the two sets of fans, the banter, the abuse, the chanting etc.
The Den at times can be very quiet. At other times it's like the 80's. That mainly depends on whether it's Yeovil Town or Cardiff City we're playing and how the away fans are.....with many clubs there are an element that make noise, give it some etc, other clubs there is nothing.
Remember when you travel away, how much time you spend winding up the home fans, giving them banter and reacting to their chants etc.
If you just sit there and don't react or don't attempt to reply they'll lose interest & get quieter as well.
are the people who don't go many away away games complaining about the noise at the valley? i've been to 11 away games this season and none have been noisey. the huddersfield fans were quite noisey but they were winning for most of the game against the league leaders. didn't make sheff wed but i heard they were noisey but at bramell lane we put the home support to shame because i didn't hear them once. if going away was the same price as going to home games i would pick away games every single time. this is nothing new to anyone that away fans are noisier. everyone whinges about there home support. this season hasn't been helped by low crowds and expectation. lets just get on with it and face facts that are away fans are normally on a day out and are going to make the most of itand the home fans are the never going to be as revved for it.
Please bear in mind your influence on the home grounds you attend as away games.
Charlton, as you all know, are regarded as a safe, family, happy clappy club, where the majority of away fans turn up in replica shirts (even if they are aged over 16) and rarely set the pulses racing of the homes teams more passionate support.
Quite often the atmosphere at a game is dictated by the to & fro between the two sets of fans, the banter, the abuse, the chanting etc.
The Den at times can be very quiet. At other times it's like the 80's. That mainly depends on whether it's Yeovil Town or Cardiff City we're playing and how the away fans are.....with many clubs there are an element that make noise, give it some etc, other clubs there is nothing.
Remember when you travel away, how much time you spend winding up the home fans, giving them banter and reacting to their chants etc.
If you just sit there and don't react or don't attempt to reply they'll lose interest & get quieter as well.
yeah i accept that. but how many teams a season?i'm not disagreeing with you but how many clubs would get the den going in the championship? west ham' cardiff, and maybe couple of others like leeds? but would say bristol city still give them as much banter? in my opinion there are stand out games like you say but on the whole most games are quiet apart from derbies or old hooligan rivalries that are dying out fast.
fair enough Airman i appreciate your more structured answer as someone in the know,but their is nothing wrong with asking nor suggesting ideas on this forum afrter all we dont want to stand still,we all want progress and to improve on what looks like a solid foundation again.most of the time 1000 brains suggesting ideas and all working together for the same goal is better than one.
Understood. I hope we are always open to ideas - the problem with the Jimmy Seed Stand /away fans issue is that no matter how many times we explain why we do things this way, people come back and say we shouldn't without accepting there are reasons for it. There are plenty of people who have looked at this issue who are fans themselves so rest assured it's not just a question of inertia or what the police want.
Charlton . . . where the majority of away fans turn up in replica shirts (even if they are aged over 16)
Nonsense. You'd seem a much higher percentage of replica kit with someone like Newcastle.
Very true, went to an Aston Villa v Newcastle last season on a very hot Sunday, seemed like the whole crowd wore a replica shirt, home fans and away. Looking around the Valley, there does not seem to be a proportionally high number of people in replica shirts.
We spent far too long on a downward spiral and even though we were top for so long, there was still an air of negativity about the ground. There was a mixture of 'we are too big for this league', leading was something we were meant to do, and 'we're going to mess it up'. Against Wycombe, I thought, as much as everyone enjoyed winning the league the overwhelming feeling, initially, was relief. I expect the atmosphere will be much better next year because the football will be better, we don't think we are too big for the league and after a long summer as Champions we won't come back dreading another year of rubbish.
are the people who don't go many away away games complaining about the noise at the valley? i've been to 11 away games this season and none have been noisey. the huddersfield fans were quite noisey but they were winning for most of the game against the league leaders. didn't make sheff wed but i heard they were noisey but at bramell lane we put the home support to shame because i didn't hear them once. if going away was the same price as going to home games i would pick away games every single time. this is nothing new to anyone that away fans are noisier. everyone whinges about there home support. this season hasn't been helped by low crowds and expectation. lets just get on with it and face facts that are away fans are normally on a day out and are going to make the most of itand the home fans are the never going to be as revved for it.
Please bear in mind your influence on the home grounds you attend as away games.
Charlton, as you all know, are regarded as a safe, family, happy clappy club, where the majority of away fans turn up in replica shirts (even if they are aged over 16) and rarely set the pulses racing of the homes teams more passionate support.
Quite often the atmosphere at a game is dictated by the to & fro between the two sets of fans, the banter, the abuse, the chanting etc.
The Den at times can be very quiet. At other times it's like the 80's. That mainly depends on whether it's Yeovil Town or Cardiff City we're playing and how the away fans are.....with many clubs there are an element that make noise, give it some etc, other clubs there is nothing.
Remember when you travel away, how much time you spend winding up the home fans, giving them banter and reacting to their chants etc.
If you just sit there and don't react or don't attempt to reply they'll lose interest & get quieter as well.
Millwall's best crowd for years...17600+ V Charlton, the Den was rocking that day, brilliant atmosphere...I reckon Millwall were reacting to the noise created by 3000+ Charlton.
Millwall's best crowd for years...17600+ V Charlton, the Den was rocking that day, brilliant atmosphere...I reckon Millwall were reacting to the noise created by 3000+ Charlton.
The atmosphere wasn't all that that day, which loads on here commented on.
I know quite a few Millwall (wife was from Rotherhithe, so plenty of her mates brothers etc are Millwall) who thought the atmosphere was good, obviously once Charlton fell apart we were pretty subdubed, so on that front you may have a point, anyway we can all look forward to next season.
Millwall's best crowd for years...17600+ V Charlton, the Den was rocking that day, brilliant atmosphere...I reckon Millwall were reacting to the noise created by 3000+ Charlton.
The atmosphere wasn't all that that day, which loads on here commented on.
First half was great ...2nd half it went flat apart from the odd sound of bees buzzing ...mmmmmmmm
Comments
The nature of the segregation - permanent or otherwise - makes very little difference to the cost of splitting the Jimmy Seed Stand. A permanent split would often be in the wrong place. Stewards and police would still be required, facilities would still be inadequate on the Valley Grove side.
If we sold season tickets in that end then we wouldn't be able to accommodate, say, Leeds United bringing 3,400 people. We have to accommodate 2,000 away fans if requested by the away club under the rules, so the most you could put in there on a permanent basis is 1,000. Leaving aside the other issues, those 1,400 extra away fans are worth about £25k net to the club in ticket revenue for that one game.
We have and will continue to segregate the Jimmy Seed Stand when home ticket sales justify it, despite the fact that the police are opposed to us doing so, largely on the basis of the behaviour of some of our supporters when we do. Otherwise it isn't going to happen, because financially it would be a very stupid thing to do.
Maybe if/when the ground is fully developed, they can have the SW corner.
Or perhaps we should swap the away fans with the Upper North 'noisy' Charlton fans, so that we can decide once and for all whether the JS Stand accoustics are really the best in the ground :-)
Hasn't this season proved that the atmosphere makes no difference what-so-ever. We have by far the best team, yet cannot claim to have the most, nor the loudest home/away fans.
It may effect people's enjoyment of the game, but there isn't much evidence to suggest it makes the team play better.
I accept that a negative atmosphere can make the team perform worse, but I'm not sure the converse is true.
Charlton, as you all know, are regarded as a safe, family, happy clappy club, where the majority of away fans turn up in replica shirts (even if they are aged over 16) and rarely set the pulses racing of the homes teams more passionate support.
Quite often the atmosphere at a game is dictated by the to & fro between the two sets of fans, the banter, the abuse, the chanting etc.
The Den at times can be very quiet. At other times it's like the 80's. That mainly depends on whether it's Yeovil Town or Cardiff City we're playing and how the away fans are.....with many clubs there are an element that make noise, give it some etc, other clubs there is nothing.
Remember when you travel away, how much time you spend winding up the home fans, giving them banter and reacting to their chants etc.
If you just sit there and don't react or don't attempt to reply they'll lose interest & get quieter as well.
That cannot be the reality.