The fall in ratings and viewers is down to Misogyny, sexism, racism, Brexit voters and climate change deniers, couldn’t possibly be anything to do with poor writing, political hectoring and BBC left wing ideology being shoehorned into a kids TV show, the mere thought
Well as far as I can tell, the professional critics love the new series of Dr Who. I reckon that they all need to find new jobs as they are shit at their current ones.
TBH, most plays on R4 and just about any new drama produced by the BBC I've seen, all fit in with the current writing of Dr Who. I've come around to the idea that the BBC has outlived it's special status and needs to find it's own way in the world.
Rogue apostrophe apart, I make you right on this. Made me think - Netflix would do it justice. The BBC are so far up their own arses now they think that drivel they served up Sunday is sufficiently woke to overcome the glaring deficiencies in not just writing but the very ideas themselves.
The fall in ratings and viewers is down to Misogyny, sexism, racism, Brexit voters and climate change deniers, couldn’t possibly be anything to do with poor writing, political hectoring and BBC left wing ideology being shoehorned into a kids TV show, the mere thought
It's always been more than just a kids show as science fiction at its best is about using a story with great villains to explore ideas. That's the sort of thing that gives it loyal fans. And it has been terrible before - Sylvester McCoy fighting giant liquorice allsorts?
The BBC aren't remotely left wing but I make you right about the hectoring. People who think they're better because they're clever. The parts of it that I see or hear have no sense of collective struggle or worker's control - it's all about noble individuals doing the right thing without ever challenging the real power structures which is liberalism. And the left are not the only people who are against misogyny, sexism, racism or climate change denial.
This current incarnation has lost 3/4 of us in my household and the kids were proper fans. We visited Cardiff to go and see the exhibition that used to be there.
The fall in ratings and viewers is down to Misogyny, sexism, racism, Brexit voters and climate change deniers, couldn’t possibly be anything to do with poor writing, political hectoring and BBC left wing ideology being shoehorned into a kids TV show, the mere thought
It's always been more than just a kids show as science fiction at its best is about using a story with great villains to explore ideas. That's the sort of thing that gives it loyal fans. And it has been terrible before - Sylvester McCoy fighting giant liquorice allsorts?
The BBC aren't remotely left wing but I make you right about the hectoring. People who think they're better because they're clever. The parts of it that I see or hear have no sense of collective struggle or worker's control - it's all about noble individuals doing the right thing without ever challenging the real power structures which is liberalism. And the left are not the only people who are against misogyny, sexism, racism or climate change denial.
This current incarnation has lost 3/4 of us in my household and the kids were proper fans. We visited Cardiff to go and see the exhibition that used to be there.
😀 Pleeeeeaase
OK, lets call it a family show
i know you know (copyright Mr Chairman) that I had my tongue firmly in my cheek, you just know that the shows writers and producers will blame all of those things before taking responsibility for ruining a British TV institution. The show has disappeared up its own colon with its right on messaging and desperate need to be seen as inclusive and woke, loved the show as a kid, Pertwee was my first, but Tom Baker was my doctor as I grew older. The whole ethos and storylines changed when capaldi came in, hated him as the doctor, love him in anything else, but I doubt that’s his fault, oh for the days of Tennant or Smith, and no, I don’t care that the doctor is currently female, could be a table or a banana in the role, it’s the writers and their agendas that are the problem.
I know I am getting rather old and out of touch, but what the fuck is woke? Also, in what world can the BBC be described as left-wing?
Back on topic, Capaldi was crap and so is JW. If Dr.Who has to be a woman ( which it doesn't, stop pissing about for pc sake) offer the role to Emma Thompson, she'd be dynamite
I wasn’t holding out much hope when the Dr suddenly needed three assistants?
I mean seriously? First time it’s a Doris & suddenly she can’t do with just one sidekick? I feel I’m just watching out of loyalty (& I’d stopped watch Capaldi, he was shockingly bad). But this last ‘preach’ has me wondering if I’ll see out the series. Awful 😔
I know I am getting rather old and out of touch, but what the fuck is woke? Also, in what world can the BBC be described as left-wing?
Back on topic, Capaldi was crap and so is JW. If Dr.Who has to be a woman ( which it doesn't, stop pissing about for pc sake) offer the role to Emma Thompson, she'd be dynamite
Essentially means you are “right on” (as the kids used to say in the 70’s) and part of the solution and not the problem, on any modern social issue, and you must virtual signal your “wokeness” at all times, see Lilly Allen’s twitter for reference
Doctor Who has become like EastEnders where someone decides that the plebs need educating on a worthy cause and the writers are set to work hammering the point home. It's a 21st century pulpit sermon dressed up as entertainment.
Just watched episode 3, that was seriously awful with no positive factors whatsoever.
If the rest of the series is like this, then I can’t see any more being made.
Give Neil Gaiman another chance. Or Mark Gatiss or Steven Moffat.
I don't think Gatiss or Moffat are the answer. Moffat was responsible for the turgid Peter Capaldi years and the dreadful Bill. Gatiss is the one that recently turned Dracula into a steaming wokefest.
They need to put the show on hiatus for a few years, using the time to put together a proper writing team that understands Dr Who and can relaunch it when the memory of Chibnall and Whittaker's dismal failure has faded a little.
The BBC need to learn that they are in the business of entertaining people, not indoctrinating them with their liberal left ideology. That means bums on sofas watching the tele. The viewing figures for Dr Who are dropping like a rock, but I expect they won't pay any mind to that and just carry on pumping out the same garbage that is basically lecturing their audience on what awful people they are. If there's one thing about the insufferably right on, it's that they convinced they're right and they they know best, no matter how wrong they are.
It’s the only reason I’m still watching. They are my No1 baddies. Scared the bejesus out of me as a kid.
That picture right there is what made me fall in love with Dr Who. It's also what made me hide behind the sofa each week. Can still see Patrick Troughton scampering down the steps with them silver fuckers firing at him.
Just watched episode 3, that was seriously awful with no positive factors whatsoever.
If the rest of the series is like this, then I can’t see any more being made.
Give Neil Gaiman another chance. Or Mark Gatiss or Steven Moffat.
I don't think Gatiss or Moffat are the answer. Moffat was responsible for the turgid Peter Capaldi years and the dreadful Bill. Gatiss is the one that recently turned Dracula into a steaming wokefest.
They need to put the show on hiatus for a few years, using the time to put together a proper writing team that understands Dr Who and can relaunch it when the memory of Chibnall and Whittaker's dismal failure has faded a little.
The BBC need to learn that they are in the business of entertaining people, not indoctrinating them with their liberal left ideology. That means bums on sofas watching the tele. The viewing figures for Dr Who are dropping like a rock, but I expect they won't pay any mind to that and just carry on pumping out the same garbage that is basically lecturing their audience on what awful people they are. If there's one thing about the insufferably right on, it's that they convinced they're right and they they know best, no matter how wrong they are.
I actually enjoyed Capaldi in the role (I know I am in the minority), hence my support for Moffat ... although I agree about Bill.
Dracula was rubbish but Gatiss has done far better than that in the past.
Just watched episode 3, that was seriously awful with no positive factors whatsoever.
If the rest of the series is like this, then I can’t see any more being made.
Give Neil Gaiman another chance. Or Mark Gatiss or Steven Moffat.
I don't think Gatiss or Moffat are the answer. Moffat was responsible for the turgid Peter Capaldi years and the dreadful Bill. Gatiss is the one that recently turned Dracula into a steaming wokefest.
They need to put the show on hiatus for a few years, using the time to put together a proper writing team that understands Dr Who and can relaunch it when the memory of Chibnall and Whittaker's dismal failure has faded a little.
The BBC need to learn that they are in the business of entertaining people, not indoctrinating them with their liberal left ideology. That means bums on sofas watching the tele. The viewing figures for Dr Who are dropping like a rock, but I expect they won't pay any mind to that and just carry on pumping out the same garbage that is basically lecturing their audience on what awful people they are. If there's one thing about the insufferably right on, it's that they convinced they're right and they they know best, no matter how wrong they are.
I actually enjoyed Capaldi in the role (I know I am in the minority), hence my support for Moffat ... although I agree about Bill.
Dracula was rubbish but Gatiss has done far better than that in the past.
Getting rid of Chibnall is essential.
I liked Capaldi too - think we needed someone a bit older and darker and he gave that. He's not to blame for Moffat.
As for Dracula, that was a brilliant opportunity missed. He set it up so well then, as with most BBC stuff these days, it disappeared up its own arse. There was the potential there for a number of seasons, but the third episode ruined everything. I thought the relationship between the Count and Helsing was so good, but then Gatiss went and ruined it all.
But Chibnall and Whittaker need to go. Agree about Thompson, she'd have been great.
Always thought Paterson Joseph would have made a good first black doctor as well incidentally. As long as he had a companion called Mark...
I thought it was a clever ending. It tied everything up well IMO. The two main acting performances were brilliant too! Dolly Wells who played Van Helsing would make a great doctor!
Must admit I have always been a bit meh with Doctor Who even as a kid but thought they got it right with Ecclestone Tennant and Smith but Capaldi and Whittaker have been poor (or at least their scripts have )
Just watched episode 3, that was seriously awful with no positive factors whatsoever.
If the rest of the series is like this, then I can’t see any more being made.
Give Neil Gaiman another chance. Or Mark Gatiss or Steven Moffat.
I don't think Gatiss or Moffat are the answer. Moffat was responsible for the turgid Peter Capaldi years and the dreadful Bill. Gatiss is the one that recently turned Dracula into a steaming wokefest.
They need to put the show on hiatus for a few years, using the time to put together a proper writing team that understands Dr Who and can relaunch it when the memory of Chibnall and Whittaker's dismal failure has faded a little.
The BBC need to learn that they are in the business of entertaining people, not indoctrinating them with their liberal left ideology. That means bums on sofas watching the tele. The viewing figures for Dr Who are dropping like a rock, but I expect they won't pay any mind to that and just carry on pumping out the same garbage that is basically lecturing their audience on what awful people they are. If there's one thing about the insufferably right on, it's that they convinced they're right and they they know best, no matter how wrong they are.
I actually enjoyed Capaldi in the role (I know I am in the minority), hence my support for Moffat ... although I agree about Bill.
Dracula was rubbish but Gatiss has done far better than that in the past.
Getting rid of Chibnall is essential.
I liked Capaldi too - think we needed someone a bit older and darker and he gave that. He's not to blame for Moffat.
As for Dracula, that was a brilliant opportunity missed. He set it up so well then, as with most BBC stuff these days, it disappeared up its own arse. There was the potential there for a number of seasons, but the third episode ruined everything. I thought the relationship between the Count and Helsing was so good, but then Gatiss went and ruined it all.
But Chibnall and Whittaker need to go. Agree about Thompson, she'd have been great.
Always thought Paterson Joseph would have made a good first black doctor as well incidentally. As long as he had a companion called Mark...
I enjoyed the first episode of Dracula, I even put up with the gender and race swapping that seems obligatory in the name of "representation" these days at the BBC. It's really a shame they killed Sister Agatha Van Helsing off and I think they've definitely missed an opportunity there. I'd have watched a show where she chased vampires, werewolves and ghosts all over 19th century Europe.
Although Gatiss is a decent writer, I fear he has taken the woke pill. You probably have to if you want to get work at the BBC.
Better to flush the whole Dr Who operation out and start again. It needs an actor who can be unsettlingly odd, but still humourous, and be able to carry the gravitas of being 1000s of years old. Above all it needs new writers, that understand sci-fi, Dr Who and it's history. Writers that RESPECT the genre. Not TV soap opera hacks and political playwrights who look at Dr Who as a stepping stone on their way to something "serious" or a platform to spout their politics.
I know I am getting rather old and out of touch, but what the fuck is woke? Also, in what world can the BBC be described as left-wing?
The BBC is gently left wing, and definitely metropolitan liberal, hence does seem to see the world through a metropolitan liberal stance, which is at odds with much of the country, as shown by the Brexit referendum and General Election
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those views BUT if everyone in the country has to pay for the BBC, it's creating problems for itself by pandering too much to certain noisy groups. If you start using popular programmes to preach messages too much, instead of just being a form of escapism and fun, people will just switch over and watch something instead. We're not in a 3 channel world where people don't have a choice, once ratings start falling to a certain level, the TV license will become untenable.
Just watched episode 3, that was seriously awful with no positive factors whatsoever.
If the rest of the series is like this, then I can’t see any more being made.
Give Neil Gaiman another chance. Or Mark Gatiss or Steven Moffat.
I don't think Gatiss or Moffat are the answer. Moffat was responsible for the turgid Peter Capaldi years and the dreadful Bill. Gatiss is the one that recently turned Dracula into a steaming wokefest.
They need to put the show on hiatus for a few years, using the time to put together a proper writing team that understands Dr Who and can relaunch it when the memory of Chibnall and Whittaker's dismal failure has faded a little.
The BBC need to learn that they are in the business of entertaining people, not indoctrinating them with their liberal left ideology. That means bums on sofas watching the tele. The viewing figures for Dr Who are dropping like a rock, but I expect they won't pay any mind to that and just carry on pumping out the same garbage that is basically lecturing their audience on what awful people they are. If there's one thing about the insufferably right on, it's that they convinced they're right and they they know best, no matter how wrong they are.
I actually enjoyed Capaldi in the role (I know I am in the minority), hence my support for Moffat ... although I agree about Bill.
Dracula was rubbish but Gatiss has done far better than that in the past.
Getting rid of Chibnall is essential.
I liked Capaldi too - think we needed someone a bit older and darker and he gave that. He's not to blame for Moffat.
As for Dracula, that was a brilliant opportunity missed. He set it up so well then, as with most BBC stuff these days, it disappeared up its own arse. There was the potential there for a number of seasons, but the third episode ruined everything. I thought the relationship between the Count and Helsing was so good, but then Gatiss went and ruined it all.
But Chibnall and Whittaker need to go. Agree about Thompson, she'd have been great.
Always thought Paterson Joseph would have made a good first black doctor as well incidentally. As long as he had a companion called Mark...
I enjoyed the first episode of Dracula, I even put up with the gender and race swapping that seems obligatory in the name of "representation" these days at the BBC. It's really a shame they killed Sister Agatha Van Helsing off and I think they've definitely missed an opportunity there. I'd have watched a show where she chased vampires, werewolves and ghosts all over 19th century Europe.
Although Gatiss is a decent writer, I fear he has taken the woke pill. You probably have to if you want to get work at the BBC.
Better to flush the whole Dr Who operation out and start again. It needs an actor who can be unsettlingly odd, but still humourous, and be able to carry the gravitas of being 1000s of years old. Above all it needs new writers, that understand sci-fi, Dr Who and it's history. Writers that RESPECT the genre. Not TV soap opera hacks and political playwrights who look at Dr Who as a stepping stone on their way to something "serious" or a platform to spout their politics.
She may have a daughter or they could write a series of what she did before Dracula came out of the sea. Alternatively, Dracula died and she becomes a Vampire with his Knowledge and hunts vampires. Lots of ways a bit of imagination could take this on.
I know I am getting rather old and out of touch, but what the fuck is woke? Also, in what world can the BBC be described as left-wing?
The BBC is gently left wing, and definitely metropolitan liberal, hence does seem to see the world through a metropolitan liberal stance, which is at odds with much of the country, as shown by the Brexit referendum and General Election
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those views BUT if everyone in the country has to pay for the BBC, it's creating problems for itself by pandering too much to certain noisy groups. If you start using popular programmes to preach messages too much, instead of just being a form of escapism and fun, people will just switch over and watch something instead. We're not in a 3 channel world where people don't have a choice, once ratings start falling to a certain level, the TV license will become untenable.
I'll take your word for it - I rarely watch BBC these days, so am in no position to counter your argument. I remember the days when the BBC was pretty much the voice of the state.
Just watched episode 3, that was seriously awful with no positive factors whatsoever.
If the rest of the series is like this, then I can’t see any more being made.
Give Neil Gaiman another chance. Or Mark Gatiss or Steven Moffat.
I don't think Gatiss or Moffat are the answer. Moffat was responsible for the turgid Peter Capaldi years and the dreadful Bill. Gatiss is the one that recently turned Dracula into a steaming wokefest.
They need to put the show on hiatus for a few years, using the time to put together a proper writing team that understands Dr Who and can relaunch it when the memory of Chibnall and Whittaker's dismal failure has faded a little.
The BBC need to learn that they are in the business of entertaining people, not indoctrinating them with their liberal left ideology. That means bums on sofas watching the tele. The viewing figures for Dr Who are dropping like a rock, but I expect they won't pay any mind to that and just carry on pumping out the same garbage that is basically lecturing their audience on what awful people they are. If there's one thing about the insufferably right on, it's that they convinced they're right and they they know best, no matter how wrong they are.
I actually enjoyed Capaldi in the role (I know I am in the minority), hence my support for Moffat ... although I agree about Bill.
Dracula was rubbish but Gatiss has done far better than that in the past.
Getting rid of Chibnall is essential.
I liked Capaldi too - think we needed someone a bit older and darker and he gave that. He's not to blame for Moffat.
As for Dracula, that was a brilliant opportunity missed. He set it up so well then, as with most BBC stuff these days, it disappeared up its own arse. There was the potential there for a number of seasons, but the third episode ruined everything. I thought the relationship between the Count and Helsing was so good, but then Gatiss went and ruined it all.
But Chibnall and Whittaker need to go. Agree about Thompson, she'd have been great.
Always thought Paterson Joseph would have made a good first black doctor as well incidentally. As long as he had a companion called Mark...
I enjoyed the first episode of Dracula, I even put up with the gender and race swapping that seems obligatory in the name of "representation" these days at the BBC. It's really a shame they killed Sister Agatha Van Helsing off and I think they've definitely missed an opportunity there. I'd have watched a show where she chased vampires, werewolves and ghosts all over 19th century Europe.
Although Gatiss is a decent writer, I fear he has taken the woke pill. You probably have to if you want to get work at the BBC.
Better to flush the whole Dr Who operation out and start again. It needs an actor who can be unsettlingly odd, but still humourous, and be able to carry the gravitas of being 1000s of years old. Above all it needs new writers, that understand sci-fi, Dr Who and it's history. Writers that RESPECT the genre. Not TV soap opera hacks and political playwrights who look at Dr Who as a stepping stone on their way to something "serious" or a platform to spout their politics.
Doctor Who has become like EastEnders where someone decides that the plebs need educating on a worthy cause and the writers are set to work hammering the point home. It's a 21st century pulpit sermon dressed up as entertainment.
It hasn't become a show where these things are preached. It always has been tackling topics such as racism and climate change even as far back as the Pertwee era in the early 70's.
I don't think it is wrong that these topics a brought up, but the plots have to be strong and focused. Dr Who works best for me when it gets the balance between tension and action and being clever right. Where it has failed in the past is when it has tried to be too clever. It always has to remember that it is an entertainment show.
Doctor Who has become like EastEnders where someone decides that the plebs need educating on a worthy cause and the writers are set to work hammering the point home. It's a 21st century pulpit sermon dressed up as entertainment.
It hasn't become a show where these things are preached. It always has been tackling topics such as racism and climate change even as far back as the Pertwee era in the early 70's.
Very few people would say don't touch political or socially sensitive issues in a show like Doctor Who. The issue is about how they do it rather than whether it should be done.
Comments
Oh, the whales Star Trek nonsense was better.
The BBC aren't remotely left wing but I make you right about the hectoring. People who think they're better because they're clever. The parts of it that I see or hear have no sense of collective struggle or worker's control - it's all about noble individuals doing the right thing without ever challenging the real power structures which is liberalism. And the left are not the only people who are against misogyny, sexism, racism or climate change denial.
This current incarnation has lost 3/4 of us in my household and the kids were proper fans. We visited Cardiff to go and see the exhibition that used to be there.
OK, lets call it a family show
i know you know (copyright Mr Chairman) that I had my tongue firmly in my cheek, you just know that the shows writers and producers will blame all of those things before taking responsibility for ruining a British TV institution.
The show has disappeared up its own colon with its right on messaging and desperate need to be seen as inclusive and woke, loved the show as a kid, Pertwee was my first, but Tom Baker was my doctor as I grew older. The whole ethos and storylines changed when capaldi came in, hated him as the doctor, love him in anything else, but I doubt that’s his fault, oh for the days of Tennant or Smith, and no, I don’t care that the doctor is currently female, could be a table or a banana in the role, it’s the writers and their agendas that are the problem.
Also, in what world can the BBC be described as left-wing?
Back on topic, Capaldi was crap and so is JW.
If Dr.Who has to be a woman ( which it doesn't, stop pissing about for pc sake) offer the role to Emma Thompson, she'd be dynamite
I feel I’m just watching out of loyalty (& I’d stopped watch Capaldi, he was shockingly bad).
But this last ‘preach’ has me wondering if I’ll see out the series.
Awful 😔
Mind you I'm undertaking all day volunteer training in Saturday so I hide my wokeness
They are my No1 baddies. Scared the bejesus out of me as a kid.
If the rest of the series is like this, then I can’t see any more being made.
Give Neil Gaiman another chance. Or Mark Gatiss or Steven Moffat.
I don't think Gatiss or Moffat are the answer. Moffat was responsible for the turgid Peter Capaldi years and the dreadful Bill. Gatiss is the one that recently turned Dracula into a steaming wokefest.
They need to put the show on hiatus for a few years, using the time to put together a proper writing team that understands Dr Who and can relaunch it when the memory of Chibnall and Whittaker's dismal failure has faded a little.
The BBC need to learn that they are in the business of entertaining people, not indoctrinating them with their liberal left ideology. That means bums on sofas watching the tele. The viewing figures for Dr Who are dropping like a rock, but I expect they won't pay any mind to that and just carry on pumping out the same garbage that is basically lecturing their audience on what awful people they are. If there's one thing about the insufferably right on, it's that they convinced they're right and they they know best, no matter how wrong they are.
Dracula was rubbish but Gatiss has done far better than that in the past.
Getting rid of Chibnall is essential.
As for Dracula, that was a brilliant opportunity missed. He set it up so well then, as with most BBC stuff these days, it disappeared up its own arse. There was the potential there for a number of seasons, but the third episode ruined everything. I thought the relationship between the Count and Helsing was so good, but then Gatiss went and ruined it all.
But Chibnall and Whittaker need to go. Agree about Thompson, she'd have been great.
Always thought Paterson Joseph would have made a good first black doctor as well incidentally. As long as he had a companion called Mark...
I enjoyed the first episode of Dracula, I even put up with the gender and race swapping that seems obligatory in the name of "representation" these days at the BBC. It's really a shame they killed Sister Agatha Van Helsing off and I think they've definitely missed an opportunity there. I'd have watched a show where she chased vampires, werewolves and ghosts all over 19th century Europe.
Although Gatiss is a decent writer, I fear he has taken the woke pill. You probably have to if you want to get work at the BBC.
Better to flush the whole Dr Who operation out and start again. It needs an actor who can be unsettlingly odd, but still humourous, and be able to carry the gravitas of being 1000s of years old. Above all it needs new writers, that understand sci-fi, Dr Who and it's history. Writers that RESPECT the genre. Not TV soap opera hacks and political playwrights who look at Dr Who as a stepping stone on their way to something "serious" or a platform to spout their politics.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those views BUT if everyone in the country has to pay for the BBC, it's creating problems for itself by pandering too much to certain noisy groups. If you start using popular programmes to preach messages too much, instead of just being a form of escapism and fun, people will just switch over and watch something instead. We're not in a 3 channel world where people don't have a choice, once ratings start falling to a certain level, the TV license will become untenable.
I remember the days when the BBC was pretty much the voice of the state.
Miriam Margolyes would be perfect