[cite]Posted By: cafc-west[/cite]This is where Powell must use whatever man management skills he has to get something more out of any team he tries to do something with - starting tomorrow night. I just hope he has those skills - but, and I'm a massive Powell supporter, I'm not sure he has.
That - sad to say - is exactly how i feel. And I think it is a smart call to suggest bringing in a wise old hand until the end of the season. Chris must feel terribly isolated now. The ideal person for that role is obviously Curbs, because the respect between the two is already there. It is definitely not Dennis Wise, who is about as collaborative and trustworthy as a Gaddafi tank in Benghazi's main square.
With all due respect, people know you are close with Chris and have spoken to him on the phone now and again. You can't blame people for being cynical (nobody is being abusive thank goodness).
I'm going to take it as face value, but with your history at the club and the ties you obviously had people will always go one way or another with their take on it. I think its a good, well written piece and on the site we like to promote that, hence the sticky.
It's amazing how many posters on this forum say that this is the worst Charlton team they've ever seen yet in the same breath can say it's good enough for promotion and it's all the manager's fault. I've never for one minute this season thought this squad was good enough and I was amazed that we were in the play-off positions for so long. Even if Parky had still been in charge I really do believe we wouldn't be that much better off than we are now.
The new board made a decision, I'm still not sure even now if it was the right idea to sack Parky, but I applauded the manner in which it was done and it's timing. Maybe they panicked a bit after missing out on Howe but either way the vibe since then has been that CP is the man for the long term and I think we owe it as supporters to put up with this short term pain and see what happens over the summer. Lots of players are out of contract and I will be happy to see the backs of quite a few of them.
[cite]Posted By: MickCollins[/cite]
I'm not sure why the topic has been "stuck" at the top of the page. It's all a bit embarrassing, because it makes it look like I think this particular opinion is worth more than others, and that's just not true.
Mick, i stuck it because it was topical and attempts to bring the discussion to potentially the heart of the problem. Its focussed on issues that need debating, and hopefully focuses the supporters into debating them in a slightly more considered way, as the opening post is well wrote, whether you agree with it or not.
Its the topic i wanted to hightlight, not the author, nor the message, but as thread starter i'm more than happy to unstick it if you prefer.
As for my opinion, i agree with your stance and believe there to be a great deal of truth in what you say. I don't however view it to be the full story and believe there is more than one way to skin a cat. A fundamental of a manager's job is to firstly get the best out of the players he has, and get them playing with confidence and the determination to want to give that 1% above the demanded 100%.
Bad luck in my mind has played a huge part, but that happens all the time in football and its how you react to it that is important. We have not reacted in the right way, and its clear that this is a very divided squad who so far appear to not have the togetherness, spirit or professional pride to come out the other end of this spell with sleeves rolled up, and blood and guts being put on the line.
That's what's clear, there appears to be no trigger to coax the reaction; the manager at present doesn't look like he can instigate it which is a worry in itself, they do not appear to have the bond as a collective 11 on the pitch to huddle and say, 'come on every one of us is better than this, let's do it for ourselves', and they certainly have no respect for the club, shirt they are wearing and the supporters who are paying their £3-£6k a week.
Its a horrid, horrid mess.
The blame game will always emerge in these scenarios and people will always try to pigeon hole the cause. As always in these scenarios, its never one thing in isolation, but a catalogue of problems that are co-inciding to make this far worse than it should ever have been.
I'm disgusted by the approach and lack of professionalism by a number of players, i'm annoyed the new board made such a trigger decision without properly doing their homework on what the causes of the emerging problems were and how best to approach them, i'm disappointed that Chris Powell looks like he has approached things probably the wrong way and hasn't been able to get the squad onside, which is a fundamental for every manager, and i'm saddened by the abuse that is coming his way by so called fans that seem to get far more enjoyment out of degrading people than supporting them.
Every bone in my body wants to stand up and say i support the manager 100%. I want the board to publicly be able to do that too, because it would go some way to ease all the growing stirrings. But i can't, and they realistically can't, because game by game, nothing has emerged to make that statement sound anything but illogical and based purely off hope than reason.
Something either has to give, or have to come to a head. That could well be a team of players finding the spirit to go out there and fight tomorrow. Playing a decent team might be what's needed to coax a reaction, and if that emerges then the fans there will be back being supporting them in an instant.
I pray to god it has to be that way, because i fear the abuse and anger is otherwise only going to grow and grow. And Chris Powell as both a fantastic servant of this club, and as a man, really does not deserve that.
Mick, A very well thought out and written article. However, this is my comment on The Advice to Powell thread.
''Be prepared and brave enough to change it around. On Saturday we were 2-0 down after 55 minutes, his team /formation/tactics where not working. The midfield were second best to Daggers lads in every area, we were hitting it long which was not working, he should have had the balls to go 3-5-2, we had 3 centre backs on anyway, MacCack should have come of, Racon on, Big Frank off (who gave it his best) and Eccels on, pack and play it around the midfield, to the feet of the front two where they need it. Powell did not do this on Sat, he just brought a fullback on?? he then brought on Reidy who was dire and looked like he would have preferred to stay on the bench. And Eccels on with about 10 minutes to go, A player needs 10 minutes to get into the game. When its not working the good managers change tactics/formation, not just swap players and hope for the best. Chris you need a plan B mate!!! The bollocking you got was deserved on saturday, it 'appeared' you did not know what you were doing and I agree the players are not fit to wear the shirt!!''
I admire your defence of Powell, and if true the players need to take a long look at themselves, that said the buck stops with the manager.
AFKA, I am going to disagree with your final sentence, Powell is a massive credit to our club for his work as a player and servant and for that he does not deserve the abuse he got on Saturday, however we are judging him as a manager now and I'm afraid the bollocking he got was deserved! I am a Chris Powell fan and it hurts me to say it but he looked lost on the touchline!! I hope this time next season I am proved wrong, I really do!!
Superb piece AFKA and fully agree that Chrissy, although not having earnt respect as a manager yet, most certainly does not deserve the abuse and anger, whether as a past loyal servant, manager or fellow human being.
Charlton FC is not a nice place to be in or around at the moment
Fans have lost patience and look for someone to blame that blames lies with the Mgmt top middle and bottom runs of mgmt
That then transfers into agression and distain
you can either stand up and challenge it or you can walk away from it.
CAFC will always be my club but right now i cant be arsed to worry about it anymore and that is not a good thing because i reckon there are loads like me who has decided that its time to take a break from the pain and aquish of it all, i cant influence what happens on the pitch or the stands it is too far gone for that.
The team aint good enough
So far it is looking like SCP aint good enough
The fans whom the majority are good enough and deserve a hell of a lot better than the last 6 years of cack but we are were we are.
Then there are the others (fans) are getting what they deserve served up to them the shit on the pitch matches the shite that comes from their mouths and the brains that they were born with.
What i do know is we need stability and that comes at a cost theres a huge price to pay for that stability and god help the fella that bears that heavy burden.
Jimenz doesnt come across as the type of guy to shoulder that burden so i fear for SCP, but like i said we need 10 players minimum next season and with that outlay results will need to be 100% certain.
The current squad is shockingly thin in every area of good quailty players that can play football.
You get away with it when you play hoof ball because you play off percentage football.
Agree with AFKA that while Mick has, most likely, identified the problem that, and other problems, are part of the job of any manager to avoid and/or deal with.
I'm still with Powell for the long haul but I can only see things getting worse before they get better.
I'm still unhappy that a season where we had decent prospects of at least the play-offs has been thrown away. I'm even more unhappy that I personally can't see even the smallest sign of improvement or a switch to "better" style of football. Yet.
Firstly, under Parky, Charlton's record against the better teams was good. What we were not so good at was overcoming sides who set out to frustrate us. The problem was it is becoming clear, that we werent good enough. At home a team like Charlton is expected to make the running and this made things even worse as they had to be a bit more open and if th eoutlets dried up, they were likely to lose. Away from home, where they could legitimately set out much more negaive, they were quite strong. I think Parky knew what the team was and wasn't capable of and played accordingly. He couldn't openly come out and say how limited most of our players were as it would have dented morale. He was sacked after a terrible home performance against a lower side, but we had witnessed those all season but were also picking up points away and keeping ourselves in the hunt.
Now here is the big thing - the crowd were not happy with that. A large percentage never took to Parky and the board could see that a manager and team that were so easily turned on by the crowd was not going anywhere. They will also have understood that people pay money to watch a game and the sort of rubbish that was being dished up at the Valley was only going to erode support. So they decided they had to act - bringing in a legend who the crowd would be extra patient with which would allow some time for the tactics to change and the team to improve.
And it seemed to work. Powells first game was a love in and the next few games were too - no matter that the team were not playing any better than they were before- they were winning and surely the performances were going to improve with the added confidence. An attack so bereft of options, suddenly looked good- Anyinsah (the player who seems to make us tick) was fit for a few games, Ecclestone looked lively and sharp, we bought the league's top scorer. Powell promised a couple of loans - the fans could see a midfileder like Bostock and a quick defender could really push the team on. Powell told us to expect developments but nothing happened.
The team lost a few games then injuries to key players made things worse. The weak underbelly of the squad was exposed - mistakes that had seemingly been adressed crept back in and goals dried up. Powell seemed a bit clueless tactically - slow to react with cahnges when games seeemed to slip away. The balance was all wrong and our best players that weren't injured dropped their performance levels.
So we are where we are now- no we wont go down - but we certainly won't get near the play offs. That is totally depressing in itself. It is tempting to say, sack Powell and the whole team but history shows that this approach rarely works. Powell has to get a grip on things- the return of some of the injured players will help and we will probably go on a mini run and end strongly. I think he needs this to happen despite what the board may be saying about backing him. He hasn't got any past evidence to show he has what it takes and he isn't showing it now. He has to show that he is getting to grips with things to give them confidence to back him in rebuilding the team. If I was on the board I would be listening intently to his plans and would want to be sure he undersatnds why things have gone wrong. If he turns things round the fans will come round- we still love him for what he achieved as a player - it doesn't mean we don't love Charlton more though and if it becomes clear that Powell going will be in the club's interest we will accept that. So an important period for him.
As for the players - we do have some good ones- not enough and maybe they don't compliment each other but we need to work out which of these we are going to keep. We need 4,5 or 6 of this team to be up to playing in next season's team as you can't change a whole team and the funds will need to be targeted at the sort of qulaity that will give us an edge. Maybe it is good that some people seem to blame Parky. He has risen in my estimations in all of this but better they take it out on him than the present incumbant - we need to show some qualified unity and support over the next few games and starting tomorrow and see if we can help to turn things round. At least the board will be under no illusions that major action is needed and the summer could be an inetersting time.
For what it's worth I think there is something wrong between players and management. What exactly it is is unknown. there may be elements of unprofessionalism, elements of naive management, players disgruntled at being played out of position, players disgruntled at the constant changing around of the team. It's probably a combination of all of this and a few other bits and bobs
All I know is relegation this season IS a possibility and this is all that we need to avoid this season.
Regardless of what has been said by Powell, people on here etc - I predict wholesale changes this summer and as long as the players want to play for the shirt, play attractive football and give 100% then that's all I will ask.
[cite]Posted By: MickCollins[/cite]Just to be clear -
This was just my view on things - nobody else's.
....
I just wish, like everyone else on here, that my football club would win a match soon. Regardless of who we blame, I'd like to think we all agree on that.
Mick, I think it was a really good article, and worth debating. As it happens I don't agree with you, but a good read and it made me think. Thanks.
[cite]Posted By: Wheresmeticket?[/cite]Mick, I think it was a really good article, and worth debating. As it happens I don't agree with you, but a good read and it made me think. Thanks.
got to say i agree with mick collins ,said this on another thread the squad isnt good enough and even parky papered over the cracks ,now powelly should be given time to build a squad that not only plays good football but a squad that is proud to play for charlton athletic ,the players should take all the stick for our recent form its them who pull the shirt on every week,powelly knows how big the job is he is a proud man so i think the man should be given time to build for the future.
I don't want to ''blame'' anyone. But it is undeniable that we have a woefully poor squad and an inexperienced manager, who has never before encountered such a weak-willed and technically limited bunch of players and is perplexed by their absence of character and frustrated by their lack of skill.
But there is a plan, as Mick Collins knows. Most of these players will be out of the door this summer. Powell, Jiminez, Vetere and Peacock between them make one very shrewd talent-spotting team and they will bring in better players and stronger characters in all the key positions. Of the XI who started on Saturday, I expect only three still to be here next season.
But for the remaining six weeks of the season, I'm going to support the club and the manager to the hilt - and the players,too, urging them to show some pride for the short remaining time most of them will be wearing OUR shirt.
So we've missed the play-offs. But hey, we've avoided administration, too.
We are Charlton. And we WILL prevail, just as we did after the dark days of 84-85, when there were times when there were only four or five thousand of us still watching. Keep the faith.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]I don't want to ''blame'' anyone. But it is undeniable that we have a woefully poor squad and an inexperienced manager, who has never before encountered such a weak-willed and technically limited bunch of players and is perplexed by their absence of character and frustrated by their lack of skill.
But there is a plan, as Mick Collins knows. Most of these players will be out of the door this summer. Powell, Jiminez, Vetere and Peacock between them make one very shrewd talent-spotting team and they will bring in better players and stronger characters in all the key positions. Of the XI who started on Saturday, I expect only three still to be here next season.
But for the remaining six weeks of the season, I'm going to support the club and the manager to the hilt - and the players,too, urging them to show some pride for the short remaining time most of them will be wearing OUR shirt.
So we've missed the play-offs. But hey, we've avoided administration, too.
We are Charlton. And we WILL prevail, just as we did after the dark days of 84-85, when there were times when there were only four or five thousand of us still watching. Keep the faith.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]I don't want to ''blame'' anyone. But it is undeniable that we have a woefully poor squad and an inexperienced manager, who has never before encountered such a weak-willed and technically limited bunch of players and is perplexed by their absence of character and frustrated by their lack of skill.
But there is a plan, as Mick Collins knows. Most of these players will be out of the door this summer. Powell, Jiminez, Vetere and Peacock between them make one very shrewd talent-spotting team and they will bring in better players and stronger characters in all the key positions. Of the XI who started on Saturday, I expect only three still to be here next season.
But for the remaining six weeks of the season, I'm going to support the club and the manager to the hilt - and the players,too, urging them to show some pride for the short remaining time most of them will be wearing OUR shirt.
So we've missed the play-offs. But hey, we've avoided administration, too.
We are Charlton. And we WILL prevail, just as we did after the dark days of 84-85, when there were times when there were only four or five thousand of us still watching. Keep the faith.
I tried to list the players and IDwho fits the bill i.e. players leaving in the summer
and from Micks opening piece on this thread we should assume Abbot had the hump, hardly a surprise as he was hardly played by Parky either and wanted first team football (forgetting any dillusions of grandeur) after all he had scored a decent amount of goals elsewhere and could argue he wasn't getting a fair crack
So who can be named?
Abbot - gone
Semedo?
Racon?
that is it, and Racon hasn't been playing (altho perhaps for that reason)
Accusing the players of being unprofessional cos their contracts won't be renewed is just a way of casting the blame elsewhere and diverting it from the Board who thought they do a quick fix, bring a new guy in and a decent striker and problem solved (not wishing to sound ungrateful) plus a spattering of classy loans - all a bit Pardew like and as we have seen doesn't work; and perhaps a bit of contract issues with one or two - I thought S and R were in talks around Christmas.
Personally I think its roughly a 40/60 split between a weak squad with key injuries, drop in form of two or three; and some very clear managerial failings in terms of selections and substituions, failing to spot holes in the squad correctly- we already had a good enough strike force, CM and CB were obvious to most who had watched us for some time, plus motivation and other lackings.
I think the Board missed an opportunity here to fund Parky to shore up the defficienies, and if not to replace him with and experienced and better option.
Instead we have an inexperienced manager (some of us weren't too impressed at the time but I can understand the euphoria) who has tried to change things without resourcing it adequately (surely always a job for the summer).
Of course maybe I've missed something here so please do enlighten me if I have
I posted my comments below on another thread on Sunday, however I think they are relevant for here as well-:
This is a difficult and worrying situation we find ourselves in currently. After all the hype of CP's appointment, many people were then saying (myself included) that we hoped it works out for him and although it is a 'gamble' he is a Charlton man through and through......and for the first 4 games (albeit with some luck) we were happy with the results and the gamble was paying off. Now after having to deal with a string of injuries to some of the better players in the squad, losing our 2nd top scorer to a 4 game suspension and even having a loanee goalkeeper recalled in just 7 days we now find ourselves in an extremely bad run - to say the least!!
However to change managers again now would not be the sensible option......we need to give CP his opportunity to manage his team....a team he has put together to play football the way he wants to play it....it is quite clear that many of the current squad are not up to it, be that because of lack of ability or passion for the style of play....I dont know, but CP, it would appear, doesnt want to play 'hoof-ball', something we were complining about under Mr Parkinson.....so he is trying to change it.
We have a new board who stated from the start that promotion this season would be a 'bonus' not an absolute requirement and now, it would appear, have also intimated (although whether this is true or not I dont know) that there will be a big change of players this coming summer, now what that actually means we can only wait and see, but we will see in just a few months.
The need however is for CP to ensure we are not in a relegation fight between now and the end of the season, and to that end, he may have to forego his 'style' of play and let our current squad play to its strengths (how ever low they maybe), and hope to get Jacko, Anyinsah and Doc back in the team asap.
We have 11 games to go, we are 9 points above the dreaded relegation places with games in hand, the play-offs are gone, so lets stick with CP hope that our better players come back sooner rather than later, and the squad find the 'spirit and fight' to grind out 3 or 4 wins to ensure safety.
Let CP rebuild the team in the summer and see what next season brings, you never know we could be pleasantly surprised......if not...then the time to judge CP will be Nov/Dec next season, but for now lets give him our support from near or far.....everyone in any walk of life deserves time to work in their style and with their team.....lets see what he can do!
In Semedo we have a water carrier but there is nobody in the current squad for him to carry the water for. He is an excellent water carrier so I'd try to build next season's team around that fact. Back to basics for now though - I want to see us out strength Southampton tomorrow playing a simple game within our current limitations. Not the beautiful game but that will have to wait - it will surely be more entertaining to create chances and compete than to be rolled over which is the most likely outcome if Powell doesn't change his short term tactics.
Now is not the time for the blame game it will achieve absolutely nothing or worse. I saw it happen with my first team Halifax Town - and look what happened to them! When confidence is shot to pieces hunting the scapegoat will do no good whatsoever. Let's just keep it simple and start making steps forward with what we have. Charlton got back to the Valley because people decided to do something about getting back rather than playing the blame game. Look at Curb's biography and you will find it is all about making slow and steady improvements rather than blaming people or moaning about the cards he was handed. Most things in life change when people start looking forward rather than backwards.
Some clearly agree, lots (even more clearly) don't. I don't claim any special standing when it comes to a matter of opinion. This post wasn't as a result of anything I'd been told, but rather because of what I'd seen and what was quite obvious. I'm not sure why the topic has been "stuck" at the top of the page. It's all a bit embarrassing, because it makes it look like I think this particular opinion is worth more than others, and that's just not true.
I find the (few) people who go charging in to shoot the messenger quite so furiously a bit sad, but that's life. As I say, this wasn't based on secret insights or things I'd been told, it was based on an opinion.
So, if those who had a bit of a shout at me feel better for it, it's all water off a duck's back to me.
Hey Mick, instead of being so precious, why don't you actually join in the passionate debate that your opening piece provoked?
There are some wonderful, well-written contributions (mine excluded) raising questions against your stated opinion and it would enrich the debate I'm sure if your would care to give us the benefit of your response
Why is mick coming under fire for q real passionate and thought out post if you don't agree with it say your piece its not for him to defend surely he has said what he feels
Sadly we can debate all we like, but we will not know the truth until either a Director comes out of hiding and informs us properly, or we reach the Summer and eventually find out by their actions. I believe that the Board preferred to wait until Summer to start improving the squad for a strong promotion challenge next year, but gave CP a bit of help now in case he could conjure up a miracle or at least get somewhere near. If I am right then their plan has backfired to such an extent that no one mentions promotion now, but relegation is a big dark cloud hovering over a team that has forgotten how to win. There is one thing that experience of managing people has taught me, and that is that if an employee has shown no desire to break sweat for the cause, you must exclude them from the team. Better to play inexperience but with a massive desire to wear the shirt, than allow the shirkers to take the piss out of loyal fans which is currently happening. CP became a legend at Charlton by his skill, his attitude and being a lovely guy. Sorry Chris it's time to kick ass my old son.
Now try the search engine for one of the various Parky out threads. I think it was just after we had 'luckily' beat Carlisle away, we didnt have a pot to piddle in, you were anti the manager, thought we were lucky to be 4th and that promotion was imperative and the only answer to the mess we are in.
All makes sense on a basic, emotional level. But plenty managers are able to get more out of "worse" players. Plenty players on expiring contracts turn in good performances and shorter term contracts and loans are the norm and reality in the lower leagues. Whoever goes up will have a number of players who will be looking for a new contract in the summer. As individuals I don't believe the vast majority of players will sit out half a season. Even if they are leaving this is their shop window. Poyet converted the same core of players from relegation doomed cloggers to a sweet passing unit in a few months and, with a few additions, into likely champions. Lambert converted last seasons whipping boys into runaway champions. Powell's not got the mix right yet. I hope he does. But, while I wouldn't blame him I wouldn't say that it would be impossible for someone to have turned this group into contenders.
No, I always thought we were a couple of players away but those players didn't arrive at the key stage. not anybody's fault - we know the club were trying but the sort that would ahve done the business were also sought after by higher level clubs so was a bit of a no brainer for them I suppose. That and injuries and loss of confidence and we are looking on the ropes. However, get the injured players back and I still reckon we will finish in the top half. In the meantime- Powell needs to put out a team that has something in it to win games- that might mean going more route 1 but needs must. A slide needs to arrested!
Comments
That - sad to say - is exactly how i feel. And I think it is a smart call to suggest bringing in a wise old hand until the end of the season. Chris must feel terribly isolated now. The ideal person for that role is obviously Curbs, because the respect between the two is already there. It is definitely not Dennis Wise, who is about as collaborative and trustworthy as a Gaddafi tank in Benghazi's main square.
With all due respect, people know you are close with Chris and have spoken to him on the phone now and again. You can't blame people for being cynical (nobody is being abusive thank goodness).
I'm going to take it as face value, but with your history at the club and the ties you obviously had people will always go one way or another with their take on it. I think its a good, well written piece and on the site we like to promote that, hence the sticky.
The new board made a decision, I'm still not sure even now if it was the right idea to sack Parky, but I applauded the manner in which it was done and it's timing. Maybe they panicked a bit after missing out on Howe but either way the vibe since then has been that CP is the man for the long term and I think we owe it as supporters to put up with this short term pain and see what happens over the summer. Lots of players are out of contract and I will be happy to see the backs of quite a few of them.
Mick, i stuck it because it was topical and attempts to bring the discussion to potentially the heart of the problem. Its focussed on issues that need debating, and hopefully focuses the supporters into debating them in a slightly more considered way, as the opening post is well wrote, whether you agree with it or not.
Its the topic i wanted to hightlight, not the author, nor the message, but as thread starter i'm more than happy to unstick it if you prefer.
As for my opinion, i agree with your stance and believe there to be a great deal of truth in what you say. I don't however view it to be the full story and believe there is more than one way to skin a cat. A fundamental of a manager's job is to firstly get the best out of the players he has, and get them playing with confidence and the determination to want to give that 1% above the demanded 100%.
Bad luck in my mind has played a huge part, but that happens all the time in football and its how you react to it that is important. We have not reacted in the right way, and its clear that this is a very divided squad who so far appear to not have the togetherness, spirit or professional pride to come out the other end of this spell with sleeves rolled up, and blood and guts being put on the line.
That's what's clear, there appears to be no trigger to coax the reaction; the manager at present doesn't look like he can instigate it which is a worry in itself, they do not appear to have the bond as a collective 11 on the pitch to huddle and say, 'come on every one of us is better than this, let's do it for ourselves', and they certainly have no respect for the club, shirt they are wearing and the supporters who are paying their £3-£6k a week.
Its a horrid, horrid mess.
The blame game will always emerge in these scenarios and people will always try to pigeon hole the cause. As always in these scenarios, its never one thing in isolation, but a catalogue of problems that are co-inciding to make this far worse than it should ever have been.
I'm disgusted by the approach and lack of professionalism by a number of players, i'm annoyed the new board made such a trigger decision without properly doing their homework on what the causes of the emerging problems were and how best to approach them, i'm disappointed that Chris Powell looks like he has approached things probably the wrong way and hasn't been able to get the squad onside, which is a fundamental for every manager, and i'm saddened by the abuse that is coming his way by so called fans that seem to get far more enjoyment out of degrading people than supporting them.
Every bone in my body wants to stand up and say i support the manager 100%. I want the board to publicly be able to do that too, because it would go some way to ease all the growing stirrings. But i can't, and they realistically can't, because game by game, nothing has emerged to make that statement sound anything but illogical and based purely off hope than reason.
Something either has to give, or have to come to a head. That could well be a team of players finding the spirit to go out there and fight tomorrow. Playing a decent team might be what's needed to coax a reaction, and if that emerges then the fans there will be back being supporting them in an instant.
I pray to god it has to be that way, because i fear the abuse and anger is otherwise only going to grow and grow. And Chris Powell as both a fantastic servant of this club, and as a man, really does not deserve that.
However, this is my comment on The Advice to Powell thread.
''Be prepared and brave enough to change it around.
On Saturday we were 2-0 down after 55 minutes, his team /formation/tactics where not working.
The midfield were second best to Daggers lads in every area, we were hitting it long which was not working, he should have had the balls to go 3-5-2, we had 3 centre backs on anyway, MacCack should have come of, Racon on, Big Frank off (who gave it his best) and Eccels on, pack and play it around the midfield, to the feet of the front two where they need it. Powell did not do this on Sat, he just brought a fullback on?? he then brought on Reidy who was dire and looked like he would have preferred to stay on the bench. And Eccels on with about 10 minutes to go, A player needs 10 minutes to get into the game.
When its not working the good managers change tactics/formation, not just swap players and hope for the best.
Chris you need a plan B mate!!!
The bollocking you got was deserved on saturday, it 'appeared' you did not know what you were doing and I agree the players are not fit to wear the shirt!!''
I admire your defence of Powell, and if true the players need to take a long look at themselves, that said the buck stops with the manager.
AFKA, I am going to disagree with your final sentence, Powell is a massive credit to our club for his work as a player and servant and for that he does not deserve the abuse he got on Saturday, however we are judging him as a manager now and I'm afraid the bollocking he got was deserved! I am a Chris Powell fan and it hurts me to say it but he looked lost on the touchline!! I hope this time next season I am proved wrong, I really do!!
Fans have lost patience and look for someone to blame that blames lies with the Mgmt top middle and bottom runs of mgmt
That then transfers into agression and distain
you can either stand up and challenge it or you can walk away from it.
CAFC will always be my club but right now i cant be arsed to worry about it anymore and that is not a good thing because i reckon there are loads like me who has decided that its time to take a break from the pain and aquish of it all, i cant influence what happens on the pitch or the stands it is too far gone for that.
The team aint good enough
So far it is looking like SCP aint good enough
The fans whom the majority are good enough and deserve a hell of a lot better than the last 6 years of cack but we are were we are.
Then there are the others (fans) are getting what they deserve served up to them the shit on the pitch matches the shite that comes from their mouths and the brains that they were born with.
What i do know is we need stability and that comes at a cost theres a huge price to pay for that stability and god help the fella that bears that heavy burden.
Jimenz doesnt come across as the type of guy to shoulder that burden so i fear for SCP, but like i said we need 10 players minimum next season and with that outlay results will need to be 100% certain.
The current squad is shockingly thin in every area of good quailty players that can play football.
You get away with it when you play hoof ball because you play off percentage football.
Agree with AFKA that while Mick has, most likely, identified the problem that, and other problems, are part of the job of any manager to avoid and/or deal with.
I'm still with Powell for the long haul but I can only see things getting worse before they get better.
I'm still unhappy that a season where we had decent prospects of at least the play-offs has been thrown away. I'm even more unhappy that I personally can't see even the smallest sign of improvement or a switch to "better" style of football. Yet.
Now here is the big thing - the crowd were not happy with that. A large percentage never took to Parky and the board could see that a manager and team that were so easily turned on by the crowd was not going anywhere. They will also have understood that people pay money to watch a game and the sort of rubbish that was being dished up at the Valley was only going to erode support. So they decided they had to act - bringing in a legend who the crowd would be extra patient with which would allow some time for the tactics to change and the team to improve.
And it seemed to work. Powells first game was a love in and the next few games were too - no matter that the team were not playing any better than they were before- they were winning and surely the performances were going to improve with the added confidence. An attack so bereft of options, suddenly looked good- Anyinsah (the player who seems to make us tick) was fit for a few games, Ecclestone looked lively and sharp, we bought the league's top scorer. Powell promised a couple of loans - the fans could see a midfileder like Bostock and a quick defender could really push the team on. Powell told us to expect developments but nothing happened.
The team lost a few games then injuries to key players made things worse. The weak underbelly of the squad was exposed - mistakes that had seemingly been adressed crept back in and goals dried up. Powell seemed a bit clueless tactically - slow to react with cahnges when games seeemed to slip away. The balance was all wrong and our best players that weren't injured dropped their performance levels.
So we are where we are now- no we wont go down - but we certainly won't get near the play offs. That is totally depressing in itself. It is tempting to say, sack Powell and the whole team but history shows that this approach rarely works. Powell has to get a grip on things- the return of some of the injured players will help and we will probably go on a mini run and end strongly. I think he needs this to happen despite what the board may be saying about backing him. He hasn't got any past evidence to show he has what it takes and he isn't showing it now. He has to show that he is getting to grips with things to give them confidence to back him in rebuilding the team. If I was on the board I would be listening intently to his plans and would want to be sure he undersatnds why things have gone wrong. If he turns things round the fans will come round- we still love him for what he achieved as a player - it doesn't mean we don't love Charlton more though and if it becomes clear that Powell going will be in the club's interest we will accept that. So an important period for him.
As for the players - we do have some good ones- not enough and maybe they don't compliment each other but we need to work out which of these we are going to keep. We need 4,5 or 6 of this team to be up to playing in next season's team as you can't change a whole team and the funds will need to be targeted at the sort of qulaity that will give us an edge. Maybe it is good that some people seem to blame Parky. He has risen in my estimations in all of this but better they take it out on him than the present incumbant - we need to show some qualified unity and support over the next few games and starting tomorrow and see if we can help to turn things round. At least the board will be under no illusions that major action is needed and the summer could be an inetersting time.
Really good debate evolving here.
All I know is relegation this season IS a possibility and this is all that we need to avoid this season.
Regardless of what has been said by Powell, people on here etc - I predict wholesale changes this summer and as long as the players want to play for the shirt, play attractive football and give 100% then that's all I will ask.
Mick, I think it was a really good article, and worth debating. As it happens I don't agree with you, but a good read and it made me think. Thanks.
excellent!
But there is a plan, as Mick Collins knows. Most of these players will be out of the door this summer. Powell, Jiminez, Vetere and Peacock between them make one very shrewd talent-spotting team and they will bring in better players and stronger characters in all the key positions. Of the XI who started on Saturday, I expect only three still to be here next season.
But for the remaining six weeks of the season, I'm going to support the club and the manager to the hilt - and the players,too, urging them to show some pride for the short remaining time most of them will be wearing OUR shirt.
So we've missed the play-offs. But hey, we've avoided administration, too.
We are Charlton. And we WILL prevail, just as we did after the dark days of 84-85, when there were times when there were only four or five thousand of us still watching. Keep the faith.
bang on totally agree
That's a good post.
Since I put a Charlton car sticker in the motor after the Posh game, we haven't won.
http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=40447
I tried to list the players and IDwho fits the bill i.e. players leaving in the summer
and from Micks opening piece on this thread we should assume Abbot had the hump, hardly a surprise as he was hardly played by Parky either and wanted first team football (forgetting any dillusions of grandeur) after all he had scored a decent amount of goals elsewhere and could argue he wasn't getting a fair crack
So who can be named?
Abbot - gone
Semedo?
Racon?
that is it, and Racon hasn't been playing (altho perhaps for that reason)
Accusing the players of being unprofessional cos their contracts won't be renewed is just a way of casting the blame elsewhere and diverting it from the Board who thought they do a quick fix, bring a new guy in and a decent striker and problem solved (not wishing to sound ungrateful) plus a spattering of classy loans - all a bit Pardew like and as we have seen doesn't work; and perhaps a bit of contract issues with one or two - I thought S and R were in talks around Christmas.
Personally I think its roughly a 40/60 split between a weak squad with key injuries, drop in form of two or three; and some very clear managerial failings in terms of selections and substituions, failing to spot holes in the squad correctly- we already had a good enough strike force, CM and CB were obvious to most who had watched us for some time, plus motivation and other lackings.
I think the Board missed an opportunity here to fund Parky to shore up the defficienies, and if not to replace him with and experienced and better option.
Instead we have an inexperienced manager (some of us weren't too impressed at the time but I can understand the euphoria) who has tried to change things without resourcing it adequately (surely always a job for the summer).
Of course maybe I've missed something here so please do enlighten me if I have
This is a difficult and worrying situation we find ourselves in currently. After all the hype of CP's appointment, many people were then saying (myself included) that we hoped it works out for him and although it is a 'gamble' he is a Charlton man through and through......and for the first 4 games (albeit with some luck) we were happy with the results and the gamble was paying off. Now after having to deal with a string of injuries to some of the better players in the squad, losing our 2nd top scorer to a 4 game suspension and even having a loanee goalkeeper recalled in just 7 days we now find ourselves in an extremely bad run - to say the least!!
However to change managers again now would not be the sensible option......we need to give CP his opportunity to manage his team....a team he has put together to play football the way he wants to play it....it is quite clear that many of the current squad are not up to it, be that because of lack of ability or passion for the style of play....I dont know, but CP, it would appear, doesnt want to play 'hoof-ball', something we were complining about under Mr Parkinson.....so he is trying to change it.
We have a new board who stated from the start that promotion this season would be a 'bonus' not an absolute requirement and now, it would appear, have also intimated (although whether this is true or not I dont know) that there will be a big change of players this coming summer, now what that actually means we can only wait and see, but we will see in just a few months.
The need however is for CP to ensure we are not in a relegation fight between now and the end of the season, and to that end, he may have to forego his 'style' of play and let our current squad play to its strengths (how ever low they maybe), and hope to get Jacko, Anyinsah and Doc back in the team asap.
We have 11 games to go, we are 9 points above the dreaded relegation places with games in hand, the play-offs are gone, so lets stick with CP hope that our better players come back sooner rather than later, and the squad find the 'spirit and fight' to grind out 3 or 4 wins to ensure safety.
Let CP rebuild the team in the summer and see what next season brings, you never know we could be pleasantly surprised......if not...then the time to judge CP will be Nov/Dec next season, but for now lets give him our support from near or far.....everyone in any walk of life deserves time to work in their style and with their team.....lets see what he can do!
Tomorrow the fightback starts! COYR!
Hey Mick, instead of being so precious, why don't you actually join in the passionate debate that your opening piece provoked?
There are some wonderful, well-written contributions (mine excluded) raising questions against your stated opinion and it would enrich the debate I'm sure if your would care to give us the benefit of your response
There is one thing that experience of managing people has taught me, and that is that if an employee has shown no desire to break sweat for the cause, you must exclude them from the team. Better to play inexperience but with a massive desire to wear the shirt, than allow the shirkers to take the piss out of loyal fans which is currently happening.
CP became a legend at Charlton by his skill, his attitude and being a lovely guy. Sorry Chris it's time to kick ass my old son.
Now try the search engine for one of the various Parky out threads. I think it was just after we had 'luckily' beat Carlisle away, we didnt have a pot to piddle in, you were anti the manager, thought we were lucky to be 4th and that promotion was imperative and the only answer to the mess we are in.
You are a hypocrite sir, and that is a fact.