When you go to the Valley this season, and you expect a dour battle you won't be too disapointed. The problem with being a fan is that you are ever optimistic and next week is the game when everything will change. But it doesn't.
Our problem this season and too some extent last is that the game plan to get a result against us isn't too complex - you have to sit tight, work hard, not give us time on the ball and double up on our creative outlets - then you have to attack quickly - not necessarily with flair though - you can play by numbers as we can be relied upon to gift our fair share of goals. This happens too often for it to be a suprise when it happens again.
Having said that, we do have some decent players. The balance is wrong but it might not need as much fixing as it would seem. Powell is trying to find a balance that gets the best out of the team so we go out and dominate teams and win comfortably- where it was very true when we said that Parky wouldn't have one those 4 games on the trot - it is just as true in my mind that he wouldn't have lost the 4 games on the trot either. He had us muddling through - winning enough to stay in contention, which I think was some form of achievement given the resources at his disposal.
Powell has clearly been briefed to play more open and attacking - the board probably realise that to attarct supporters the team has to play entertaining football. To be honest - the games we have seen for the last 3 seasons have been consitently terrible. The question is though - do we have the players to play this way and impose ourselves sufficiently to stop limited but hard working and well organised sides? If the answer is no - then it is understandable writing the season off.
I think it could be no with the current set up but we do have a lot of good players for this level and 1 or 2 of the right type brought in could change things. Also good luck with injuries can have a positive impact and so it is wrong to write off the season IMO. The team is more than capable of getting a result tonight but even if they do, will undoubtably have a struggle on Saturday - even if we win. Something has to happen change and the magic formula has to be found.
I think Powell will get there in the end but I do see a conservative manager - trying to do something but conventionally rather than really taking a risk - E.G.At home I think we could play 3 at the back (not against Huddersfiled or Saints but against the Tranmeres and Dagenham and Redbridges of this world) but Powell would never do this- same as Parky wouldn't. Think had we done so against the lesser sides- which is probaly 3/4s of them we would have accumulated far more points at the Valley and our away form is more than adequate.
I think it would be silly to write this season off, as we still have a chance of reaching the play off places. Powell made a very good signing in BWP and for me, its important that we keep both semedo and racon (if they want to stay). I dont think they should play in the middle of the park together, but as seen this season, we are very light on central midfielders (we have 3) and we cant have that next season.
We need to strenghten key areas over the summer:
Centre backs (presuming bessone signs on a periminant basis and youga returns next season)
Centre midfielders: self explanatory
A striker that can hold up the ball and link with BWP
We have to push on this season. That is why i was dissapointed in the transfer dealings in January, apart from BWP. It is glaringly obvious to most Charlton fans where we are deficient. If we could have pushed the boat out and bought a decent Centre half and central midfield player, it would have given us a much better chance of getting into the play-offs. There is no guarantee in the summer that a reasonable amount of money will be available to recruit the players we need for a promotion push. With so many of our players out of contract we will need to change a large part of the squad. What we need at the moment as a club is stability both on and off the pitch, changing large numbers of the squad and bringing new players in it is hard to have that continuity. I can understand why players are given short term contracts, but perhaps new players brought in should be put on two year contracts.
Charlton Board write this season off... shock horror!
Hmm, haven't we all? Okay, I'll just speak for myself then.
Lose tonight and I'll be looking to next season and will probably not attend the remainder of my season ticket. Instead I'd rather spend the time constructively with my daughter, partner and family having FUN!
That's a massive leap from a mole hill to a mountain.
So you hollered at the bloke outside the ground and he gave you a short answer and you write everything off.
I though Jimenez had already said that they hoped to gain promotion this summer and then build from there. So maybe he means if we get promoted then he will buy in the summer at the earliest, but if we don't then he wont.
Or maybe he just didn't ant to give a big statement about his intentions.
I take this with about as much authority as I take comments which begin 'A mate who know someone who works at Charlton...' or 'I met {insert name of player} in the pu last night and he told me...'
Need to hope if we do not go up, Saints and one of the other bigger sides such as Peterborough or Huddersfield do.
Next season, Sheff Wednesday should be a lot stronger, the three relegated teams, play off losers and of course any surprises like Brighton this.
Never easy to get out of this division, just a pity when we had what it takes (regardless of last seasons performances, the points tally would usually be good ebough), Leeds and Norwich were about.
The odds are really stacked against us getting to the playoffs. The gap is widening and we are so out of form and ideas it's beyond a joke. CP brought a short term lift. If we could have even maintained some of that we were in with a shout. As it is it is simply denying the numbers to think we will be in the playoffs. If all we had to do was win half of our games we might be able to do it, but unless other teams suddenly develop a huge crash in form or we miraculously do a u-turn and win almost everything we're f***d. Writing the season off - well, what does that mean? Obviously we and everyone involved with the club hopes we can turn it round, but I'm afraid we are in for the usual "restructure" come summer.
Actually I've just realised we aren't entirely safe from relegation yet.
There are some great posts on here. We all see things through our own eyes and experiences.
No body in their right mind buys a third division club and wants it to stay in that division. I am certain that is true of Slater/Jimenez and the investors they represent.
I am convinced that they front for some investors. I listened to the Chairman of Crawley Town a couple of weeks ago. He was asked where they have got the resources from. He spoke of a group of investors who wanted to remain in the background, who were in it, precisely for that, for investment. Like all investors they expect a return at some stage.
I believe that is the situation at our club as well with Slater/Jimenez having brokered that investment but I can't prove it. I derive vicarious confidence that the club is better off financially based around both Peter Varney and Richard Murray's continued involvement with club affairs. I add to this people like Airman who are clearly more positive about the future.
My point is that the new regime would not have bought the club on a false premise that promotion was a done deal this season, or that they would necessarily want to buy big in January. They were knocking around for ages, they got Wise involved (my guess was to run a rule across the coaching and playing set up). They will have been given a pretty cold assessment of the state of the squad. No assessor in the world is going to be too bullish. Indeed its human nature to be the opposite.
I also think as well that they would be influenced, to some extent, by Peter Varney who would be recounting the evolutionary position taken by the old board in the days for Curbs.
They will know that there are essentially two ways to go - revolutionary or evolutionary. Its a choice - you can't do both. If you were a gambler and a loaner, you might go for the former. If you are beholden to others and an agreed investment strategy, you would almost certainly go for the latter. Doing things though which may over time bring results, may also have the added benefit of shaking things out in the short term.
They brought in CP which is clearly a long term decision. They would have hoped that it might galvanise things in the short term as well. So it looked for four gamse (lucky though we were). Reality has now shown its true colours.
We are where we are. The team is clearly lacking in certain positions. CP is accused of being too cautious. That is not what I have seen. I have seen him try out combinations of changes some of which have, some of which haven't worked and some have been dictated by circumstances i.e. injuries.
I have seen him play with different combinations up front. With different formations, 1 up, 3 up and 2 up. The defence has been all over the place with injuries, lack of form and unavailabilities and thus has been tinkered with.
I have seen us lose games due to catastrophic defensive blunders and also a lack of pace in the centre of defence which has been exploited. I have seen us out played in midfield and I have seen us mis guilt edge chances.
I don't believe that he has set out to go all gung ho. If that is seen as cautious then so be it. I don't see that as a failing.
Teams have clearly done their homework on us and they know that they can pin us back into our own half when we have the ball. They deny us space and an obvious "out ball" and then pass around us when they have the ball.
Wake up though, this isn't something new, this has been going on now for season after season. It isn't just this set of players, its a malaise which has afflicted the team over a long period and adds up to a total lack of confidence. Jose Mourinho would have a problem instilling confidence and belief into these players.
Does anyone think that Millwall, Swindon, even Norwich had a significantly better squad than we did last season? Yet they out performed us.
The whole club has been under-performing and the fans are fractious and unhappy. This is just not something that is going to change overnight. They have started changing it. They will hope that the initial changes will be enough to turn things to the good this season. It will be more in hope though than expectation for there is a long road ahead. Next season is the key one in terms of delivery on initial investment in my view.
as a pessimist the points below are what i'm most concerned with but especiallly no.6
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]It goes back to the same questions that were being asked when they took over.
2. What is the business plan?
3.What is the level of investment?
5. What are the plans for the Valley?
6. What is the exit strategy?
I think he has tried to be more open but he is cautious in terms of not thinking outside the box. Most football managers are - but I think when teams set up in a certain way - as Tranmere did on Saturday and many others have before them - you clearly don't need four defenders. A football manager who plays 4 defenders is cautious IMO (most of them are). When you play Man Utd you need 8 defenders - when you play D&R or Tranmere at home, you can get away with 3. The main thing you have to cover is height at set pieces but in Francis, Dailly and left footed Llera, we have a back 3 who give us the height and the balance- then we have Semedo who is a defensive midfielder who can offer that additional bit of protection on the rare occasion it is required. This allows us an extra man in midfield or on Saturday on the left where we created nothing - Our wide threat was mostly down the right. It's unconventional but teams come to stop us- you have to react to that in an unconventional way sometimes.
Today's game does look like the crunch - a few games ago we were eyeing up the automatic slot so its amazing how a few wins or a few defeats can affect you. Under Parky we lost 6 games from the start of the season and under Powell we have lost 4 in 9. I believe Powell will turn it round but he has to do it sooner rather than later to salvage this season. The mistakes have to be cut out- thats for sure - they have cost us big time and are unnaceptable in the volume they are occuring.
Muttley, I agree with much of what you say. I think the problem is the old "if you want to go to Dublin, I wouldn't start from here" scenario
Going three and even two at the back, at home means you need players who are confident to receive the ball and are happy to hold the ball. Confident teams do this. They back themselves to carry a greater offensive threat than the weakening of their defensive lines. They also are able to press even in the opposition half so that they can't dictate the play.
Unfortunately for some long time now (with the odd exception) we just haven't been enough self belief to do this.
I think CP has tried to make this happen but the players haven't been up to it. Too often teams camp in our half, press us when we have the ball, and dictate to us the pattern of play.
It doesn't just need a better player here or there, it doesn't just need adjustment to formations, its about a group of players having the confidence to do the right things.
CP started with a compact looking team. We won our first game - not without difficulty. The next two games, first halves were poor and only salvaged after half time. The Posh game was, perhaps, the worst of all except for a purple patch almost out of nothing. Since then the teams confidence has drained.
Confident teams come out on the front foot, especially at home, and dictate the play. Teams with a lack of confidence are tentative and lethargic at home, and generally all at sea away from home.
It will be interesting to see if the team has taken some positivity from the second half performance on Saturday into this game.
I don't really agree with this long term strategy stuff - Millwall had been on a downward spiral for many years and were lumbering around in the lower reaches of league 1 and then they appointed a good manager and within a couple of years they are now comfortable in the Championship. Don't want to put a downer on things but it doesn't take good managers long to sort things out - it's getting a good manager that is proving to be the problem.
[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]I don't really agree with this long term strategy stuff - Millwall had been on a downward spiral for many years and were lumbering around in the lower reaches of league 1 and then they appointed a good manager and within a couple of years they are now comfortable in the Championship. Don't want to put a downer on things but it doesn't take good managers long to sort things out - it's getting a good manager that is proving to be the problem.
[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]I don't really agree with this long term strategy stuff - Millwall had been on a downward spiral for many years and were lumbering around in the lower reaches of league 1 and then they appointed a good manager andwithin a couple of yearsthey are now comfortable in the Championship. Don't want to put a downer on things but it doesn't take good managers long to sort things out - it's getting a good manager that is proving to be the problem.
So, we need to give Powell a couple of years.
Hope your right. Point i'm making though is that things can turn around very quickly in football and in actual fact it was obvious very quickly (far quicker than 2 years) that he was getting a lot of things right.
[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]I don't really agree with this long term strategy stuff - Millwall had been on a downward spiral for many years and were lumbering around in the lower reaches of league 1 and then they appointed a good manager andwithin a couple of yearsthey are now comfortable in the Championship. Don't want to put a downer on things but it doesn't take good managers long to sort things out - it's getting a good manager that is proving to be the problem.
So, we need to give Powell a couple of years.
Yes. And given the amount of time we gave Pardew and Parkinson, there is no reason to believe we wouldn't.
i reckon they might well review it in the summer - hopefully CP gets them playing a bit before the end of the season but lets face it, if it continues in the tail spin that it's currently in, i wouldn't blindly stick with it.
I agree that confidence is a big factor but the way most teams set up against us at the Valley we have more chance of dominating if we pressure the areas they seek to nullify. I think managers believe that players can't cope with too many changes -maybe at this level they are right. I believe that you play horses for courses- if teams try to double up on key areas you need to find a way to get more pressure in that area. We have the personnel to play 3 at the back with Semedo in the side but of course hwat is viable against Tranmere is probably suicide against Southampton- that means changing things and managers don't like to do that- I think they should be more open as the home games against lesser teams always seem to pan out in the same way - even when we win and this suggests something different needs to be risked.
Comments
Our problem this season and too some extent last is that the game plan to get a result against us isn't too complex - you have to sit tight, work hard, not give us time on the ball and double up on our creative outlets - then you have to attack quickly - not necessarily with flair though - you can play by numbers as we can be relied upon to gift our fair share of goals. This happens too often for it to be a suprise when it happens again.
Having said that, we do have some decent players. The balance is wrong but it might not need as much fixing as it would seem. Powell is trying to find a balance that gets the best out of the team so we go out and dominate teams and win comfortably- where it was very true when we said that Parky wouldn't have one those 4 games on the trot - it is just as true in my mind that he wouldn't have lost the 4 games on the trot either. He had us muddling through - winning enough to stay in contention, which I think was some form of achievement given the resources at his disposal.
Powell has clearly been briefed to play more open and attacking - the board probably realise that to attarct supporters the team has to play entertaining football. To be honest - the games we have seen for the last 3 seasons have been consitently terrible. The question is though - do we have the players to play this way and impose ourselves sufficiently to stop limited but hard working and well organised sides? If the answer is no - then it is understandable writing the season off.
I think it could be no with the current set up but we do have a lot of good players for this level and 1 or 2 of the right type brought in could change things. Also good luck with injuries can have a positive impact and so it is wrong to write off the season IMO. The team is more than capable of getting a result tonight but even if they do, will undoubtably have a struggle on Saturday - even if we win. Something has to happen change and the magic formula has to be found.
I think Powell will get there in the end but I do see a conservative manager - trying to do something but conventionally rather than really taking a risk - E.G.At home I think we could play 3 at the back (not against Huddersfiled or Saints but against the Tranmeres and Dagenham and Redbridges of this world) but Powell would never do this- same as Parky wouldn't. Think had we done so against the lesser sides- which is probaly 3/4s of them we would have accumulated far more points at the Valley and our away form is more than adequate.
We need to strenghten key areas over the summer:
Centre backs (presuming bessone signs on a periminant basis and youga returns next season)
Centre midfielders: self explanatory
A striker that can hold up the ball and link with BWP
(New wingers would also be a bonus)
Pretty sure tonights result will have an impact on what the loan strategy will be, and if money is tight then i suppose i can understand why.
Hmm, haven't we all? Okay, I'll just speak for myself then.
Lose tonight and I'll be looking to next season and will probably not attend the remainder of my season ticket. Instead I'd rather spend the time constructively with my daughter, partner and family having FUN!
So you hollered at the bloke outside the ground and he gave you a short answer and you write everything off.
I though Jimenez had already said that they hoped to gain promotion this summer and then build from there. So maybe he means if we get promoted then he will buy in the summer at the earliest, but if we don't then he wont.
Or maybe he just didn't ant to give a big statement about his intentions.
I take this with about as much authority as I take comments which begin 'A mate who know someone who works at Charlton...' or 'I met {insert name of player} in the pu last night and he told me...'
Next season, Sheff Wednesday should be a lot stronger, the three relegated teams, play off losers and of course any surprises like Brighton this.
Never easy to get out of this division, just a pity when we had what it takes (regardless of last seasons performances, the points tally would usually be good ebough), Leeds and Norwich were about.
Actually I've just realised we aren't entirely safe from relegation yet.
No body in their right mind buys a third division club and wants it to stay in that division. I am certain that is true of Slater/Jimenez and the investors they represent.
I am convinced that they front for some investors. I listened to the Chairman of Crawley Town a couple of weeks ago. He was asked where they have got the resources from. He spoke of a group of investors who wanted to remain in the background, who were in it, precisely for that, for investment. Like all investors they expect a return at some stage.
I believe that is the situation at our club as well with Slater/Jimenez having brokered that investment but I can't prove it. I derive vicarious confidence that the club is better off financially based around both Peter Varney and Richard Murray's continued involvement with club affairs. I add to this people like Airman who are clearly more positive about the future.
My point is that the new regime would not have bought the club on a false premise that promotion was a done deal this season, or that they would necessarily want to buy big in January. They were knocking around for ages, they got Wise involved (my guess was to run a rule across the coaching and playing set up). They will have been given a pretty cold assessment of the state of the squad. No assessor in the world is going to be too bullish. Indeed its human nature to be the opposite.
I also think as well that they would be influenced, to some extent, by Peter Varney who would be recounting the evolutionary position taken by the old board in the days for Curbs.
They will know that there are essentially two ways to go - revolutionary or evolutionary. Its a choice - you can't do both. If you were a gambler and a loaner, you might go for the former. If you are beholden to others and an agreed investment strategy, you would almost certainly go for the latter. Doing things though which may over time bring results, may also have the added benefit of shaking things out in the short term.
They brought in CP which is clearly a long term decision. They would have hoped that it might galvanise things in the short term as well. So it looked for four gamse (lucky though we were). Reality has now shown its true colours.
We are where we are. The team is clearly lacking in certain positions. CP is accused of being too cautious. That is not what I have seen. I have seen him try out combinations of changes some of which have, some of which haven't worked and some have been dictated by circumstances i.e. injuries.
I have seen him play with different combinations up front. With different formations, 1 up, 3 up and 2 up. The defence has been all over the place with injuries, lack of form and unavailabilities and thus has been tinkered with.
I have seen us lose games due to catastrophic defensive blunders and also a lack of pace in the centre of defence which has been exploited. I have seen us out played in midfield and I have seen us mis guilt edge chances.
I don't believe that he has set out to go all gung ho. If that is seen as cautious then so be it. I don't see that as a failing.
Teams have clearly done their homework on us and they know that they can pin us back into our own half when we have the ball. They deny us space and an obvious "out ball" and then pass around us when they have the ball.
Wake up though, this isn't something new, this has been going on now for season after season. It isn't just this set of players, its a malaise which has afflicted the team over a long period and adds up to a total lack of confidence. Jose Mourinho would have a problem instilling confidence and belief into these players.
Does anyone think that Millwall, Swindon, even Norwich had a significantly better squad than we did last season? Yet they out performed us.
The whole club has been under-performing and the fans are fractious and unhappy. This is just not something that is going to change overnight. They have started changing it. They will hope that the initial changes will be enough to turn things to the good this season. It will be more in hope though than expectation for there is a long road ahead. Next season is the key one in terms of delivery on initial investment in my view.
I still travel in hope though for this season.
Today's game does look like the crunch - a few games ago we were eyeing up the automatic slot so its amazing how a few wins or a few defeats can affect you. Under Parky we lost 6 games from the start of the season and under Powell we have lost 4 in 9. I believe Powell will turn it round but he has to do it sooner rather than later to salvage this season. The mistakes have to be cut out- thats for sure - they have cost us big time and are unnaceptable in the volume they are occuring.
Going three and even two at the back, at home means you need players who are confident to receive the ball and are happy to hold the ball. Confident teams do this. They back themselves to carry a greater offensive threat than the weakening of their defensive lines. They also are able to press even in the opposition half so that they can't dictate the play.
Unfortunately for some long time now (with the odd exception) we just haven't been enough self belief to do this.
I think CP has tried to make this happen but the players haven't been up to it. Too often teams camp in our half, press us when we have the ball, and dictate to us the pattern of play.
It doesn't just need a better player here or there, it doesn't just need adjustment to formations, its about a group of players having the confidence to do the right things.
CP started with a compact looking team. We won our first game - not without difficulty. The next two games, first halves were poor and only salvaged after half time. The Posh game was, perhaps, the worst of all except for a purple patch almost out of nothing. Since then the teams confidence has drained.
Confident teams come out on the front foot, especially at home, and dictate the play. Teams with a lack of confidence are tentative and lethargic at home, and generally all at sea away from home.
It will be interesting to see if the team has taken some positivity from the second half performance on Saturday into this game.
So, we need to give Powell a couple of years.
Hope your right. Point i'm making though is that things can turn around very quickly in football and in actual fact it was obvious very quickly (far quicker than 2 years) that he was getting a lot of things right.
Yes. And given the amount of time we gave Pardew and Parkinson, there is no reason to believe we wouldn't.