Powell's 1st game in charge was Saturday 22nd January, that was the only game he was in charge of before the window closed. Although I grant you that a couple of days after he was appointed, he did travel to Sheff W to see the team play for the very first time, having possibly not seen any games in this division.
Therefore, you expect him to make a full assesment of what he needs, tell the board and get them to then miraculously buy these players in the few days available.
[quote][cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]ok crowds of 8 thousand it is next season[/quote]
I'm Irish but if i was living over there I'd be going to every match no matter what. So to those who do go to games a lot, when losing a few games like lately, can you actually see the crowds dwindling and turning on the team?
I think next year is the real thing. If we're this bad again next year then I'll spend season 2012-13 pruning the wisteria. And that isn't a euphemism.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]When asked today outside the ground when are you going to spend so money Tony Jiminez replied "in the summer".
Obviously written this seson off then, don't think many people will renew if this continued rubbish is served up again and again.
Are you for real ? Considering, you know a hell of a lot about Charlton, you must know that we have been trying to get in loan players for weeks. It ain't always so easy to get in the right players, there's no magic wand.
Agree with you there CE!
Seems we've lost a fair few targets to Championship clubs too. Powell won't want just anybody, not with only 2 loans left, \& the possibility that one might have to be a keeper.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]also we had all January to do business
The board brought in Eccleston prior to Powells arrival, & we bought BWP.
CP said he wanted to assess the squad before buying anyone, & he didn't start at the beginning of January either.
[cite]Posted By: YourTheLoveOfMyLife[/cite]But will it be Powelly who buys the players?
What I mean is that, (if we don't make the play offs) will Powelly still be there and even if he is or isn't, will it be Jiminez who picks the players we buy?
Anyone remember the Wise/Jiminez situation at Newcastle??
No. Powell assessed the squad in the time he had left in the transfer window, & got his main target.
If Jiminez was going to usurp CP's power & choice on players, he would have done so & bought a few more players in, irrespective of what CP thought.
To me, that doesn't show a man who will interfere. No doubt he will utilise some of his oft-mentioned contacts to potentially swing a few gems our way, but the way it looks to me, is that Powell has the autonomy on all potential signing choices.
why did he need time to assess the squad, I could of told him we are shit and I would have thought Wise told Jiminez we were shit
It's not like he would have been watching us while he was at Leicester, & I recall he said as much in an interview in his first few weeks with us.
We had a four game winning start. Yes, we were not convincing, & we definitely rode our luck in those games, but as that famous quote goes: 'It's a results driven business', & he can't have been totally put off by what he had seen, from the players at his disposal at the time, especially with the points going on the board.
He would have been casting his eye about for players, & has been trying to bring players in, but as I said before, he has been unlucky, & just plain outmuscled by clubs in higher divisions.
I don't disagree that we haven't played well, but we haven't got the best squad, & that comes from assembling players on a total shoestring. We have been punching over our weight realistically this season, but we aren't out of it just yet.
I'm happy to accept that we need a thorough re-building if we don't go up, but will get behind the team in the hope that we do.
You are a CAFC man & will be there come what May, & so will most of us, hopefully all, here, but I think the most important thing to come out of this season is the fact that we are financially secure now.
Without the threat of admin', or liquidation, we can actually look to the future with some cash on the hip, & the positivity that whatever happens, promotion or not, we are building for the future, with a real Charlton man in the managers role.
Which, is what I think all of us want, or at least have wanted over the last few years.
I think cash will be spent in the summer, in either scenario of promotion, or another 3rd tier season (hopefully not relegation), but I think everbody from CP to Jiminez & the board will be working extremely hard to get a couple more players in on loan now, to try & make the difference up in the team/squad for the rest of this season, & hopefully an exit upwards.
[cite]Posted By: mart77[/cite]Did Slater really say promotion was unlikely Bing? Seems a bit strange considering how close to the top of the table we were when they took over. Even more so when you consider they knew that many of the teams we were about to be playing were in the bottom half of the table. Suppose it could have been to take pressure off Powell but doubt they wrote promotion off too early.
I was paraphrasing what he I believe he meant. What he actually says is "promotion this season will be a bonus", and coupled with the other things he says about time to rebuild, I take that to mean that financially and mentally, he has written off this season promotion wise.
That to me was obvious from the day that they handed the job to a rookie manager. Their plan is evolution not revolution - he said that as well.
[cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite]There's been plenty great players signed on free transfers
Like who? (in the January window in League 1 by a manager who is just getting to grips with what is at his disposal?)
Hardly a fair question skip, since the vast majority of contracts run to July. Doubt there are currently many free transfers kicking around that could do a job, but you never know. Vaz Te just signed for Hibs, decent player roughly our level :-)
I'm going to say something that i think a lot of fans will not agree with but i wouldn't renew Racon & Semedo's contracts. We have tried too much to accommodate these two over the last three years and look where it has got us.
Time for a brand new midfield in my opinion .
[cite]Posted By: Bedsaddick[/cite]I'm gong to say something that i think a lot of fans will not agree with but i wouldn't renew Racon & Semedo's contracts. We have tried to much to accommodate these two over the last three years and look where it has got us.
Time for a brand new midfield in my opinion .
For me it's either or, but not both.
I also believe that they both earn far more than they are worth and that may well be significant when discussions are held.
I don't think the board have written this season off. They are just being realistic - promotion to the Championship is a long-shot and would be a bonus. Given when they took over, when Powell was appointed and when the transfer window closed, there wasn't much chance to make wholesale changes so we are stuck with the team assembled on a shoestring until the summer.
Also, I feel that players purchased in the January window are quite often over-priced as panic sets in. How often has a few purchases in January really made a significant difference to a promotion chasing team?
[cite]Posted By: Saga Lout[/cite]I don't think the board have written this season off. They are just being realistic - promotion to the Championship is a long-shot and would be a bonus. Given when they took over, when Powell was appointed and when the transfer window closed, there wasn't much chance to make wholesale changes so we are stuck with the team assembled on a shoestring until the summer.
Also, I feel that players purchased in the January window are quite often over-priced as panic sets in. How often has a few purchases in January really made a significant difference to a promotion chasing team?
I think this is about right intellectually. I would add though that financially they will have written it off.
This is for me, the main difference between pre Slater/Jimenez and when they took over. The old regime could barely cope failing to get promotion, they were in a classic financial bind. Needing the money that promotion might bring but not having enough to afford gambling all their resources in a dash for promotion. In short they couldn't afford to gamble but they couldn't really afford not to gamble. In the end they fell between two stalls.
Last season Norwich were in a desperate financial state. They absolutely had to get promotion or they were potentially doomed. I saw some information about their accounts which suggested that their main creditor had held off until the end of the season. In that situation, it pretty much forces the club to go for broke because there is no option.
In Charlton's case, there were enough resources to stave off a quick death but not enough to stave off a slow death.
Our financial future is much more secure thus time is not as pressing as it was hitherto.
Agree with all of that bing.
Unfortunately some people can't seem to get their heads around the pre and post takeover comments from "the club" - I don't think they get the fact that although "the club" is the same the circumstances and personnel have changed.
[cite]Posted By: boogica[/cite]let me tell you now a lot of the present squad wont be here next season that is fact ,even if by some sort of miracle we do get promoted .
If they had money to spend, they would have. Lots of teams were in trouble financially and would have taken money for stars in January, like Plymouth did.
I think you'll be surprised and that lots of the current squad will remain.
[cite]Posted By: boogica[/cite]let me tell you now a lot of the present squad wont be here next season that is fact ,even if by some sort of miracle we do get promoted .[/qu
If they had money to spend, they would have. Lots of teams were in trouble financially and would have taken money for stars in January, like Plymouth did.
I think you'll be surprised and that lots of the current squad will remain.
NOT WHAT I WAS TOLD YESTERDAY and as for the money i think most fans are gonna be suprised.
If our first choice eleven doesn't include at least five new players I will be disappointed and concerned. The bulk of the 1st eleven now are not good enough.
Simples, the Board are running a Business, and at the moment their product is not very good. They therefore need the time to develop their plan to return to the higher Divisions. It doesn't happen overnight, if we are just sensible and be a little patient we should see a great deal of activity in the Summer, resulting in a promotion campaign next season with a squad which can not only take us up, but keep us up and going in the right direction. Talk of 8,000 in the Ground next season is pathetic, my advice is get your season tickets if the pack ever arrives, and I intend to put my money where my mouth is !
Thing is choosing to stay in this division next season is not a neutral decision.
We are already finding it hard to recruit loan players due to the league we are in. Why will that change next season?
The good news is that the Club won't go in administration, as was possible before, without promotion. We still had, and still may have, a chance of going up this season. That is a far better proposition and the Championship far better place to re-build the Club and team than league one. The income will be higher, crowds will rise, the quality of players available (loan or buy) to us will be higher.
In league one for a third season will we be seen as even less attractive than now. One or both of Huddersfield and Southampton could still be in the league as will the likes of Sheffield Utd, Preston and Scunthorpe (who know how to get out of this division) so promotion will be no gimme.
The new board said promotion was what they wanted when they came in so I'm not sure why that should have changed.
We have up to 14 players out of contract in the summer. Some will be kids we will be happy to lose. Others like Semedo, Racon and Youga are on huge wages (rumoured to be £6k, £6k and £8k pw respectively) which we will be happy to lose. That doesn't automatically mean losing the players (opinions will differ on if we should or not) as we can try to re-sign them on lower wages.
But we seem to be assuming that if we stay down the good players will all want to stay. We've already seem Pawel Abbott orchestrate a move (according to some people) to another club. All the other players have agents and contacts and could do the same thing. Jenkinson and Llera have been MOTM in recent games. What is to stop a Championship side signing either of them? Good riddance you might say but that means we have to recruit a whole new squad again, pay the wages and fees for them and mould them into a team. Easier said than done.
It's great to give the new manager time and not put him under pressure. If not this year then I'll be there supporting them next season. I've already bought my ST for the next 4 seasons but sometimes you have to seize the opportunities when they come along as they may not come again.
Where are Swindon, who beat us in the play-offs, now? Plymouth had plans for a new World cup stadium and a push for the Premier league a couple of seasons ago. And if you want another example of how Clubs can not stand still but need to keep running forward to just stay up with the others then look no further than SE7
And one last point. Where is the evidence that the new board will spend significant money on wages and fees? They didn't do so in January when we were in the play-off positions and we were on a roll and they haven't done so since the 93 day milestone was passed.
It goes back to the same questions that were being asked when they took over. 1 who owns the club? 2. What is the business plan? 3.What is the level of investment? 4. What are the plans for the Academy? 5. What are the plans for the Valley? and 6. What is the exit strategy?
As far as I see it this is a never-ending circle unless you can get out of here. You have a squad that will be blown apart and have to be rebuilt on pretty much an annual basis, the longer we are here, the lower the crowds are, the lower the quality of player that is willing to join us, the lower the tv revenue gets if we are on less as we are a lower draw, the higher the shortfall that the board will have to make up and that will come out of the playing budget and it goes round and round and round. As Henry says, we will have double figures and perhaps even closer to 20 than 10 players leaving in the summer... we cannot be trotting out the line that we are "gelling" or "in transition" as we will be doing that almost perpetually.
Promotion was meant to be easier this season with Leeds and Norwich out of the way, problem is sides have stepped into their shoes with money (Southampton and Huddersfield) and quality (Brighton and Peterboro) or just downright hunger, momentum and hard-work (Bournemouth). Two of those won't go up, another massive club could step down in Sheffield United and accompanied by a hardy and wily club used to making it work at this level (Scunthorpe).
There is no such thing as time in modern football, there is only the time that you buy can buy yourselves.
A really good post Henry. All too relevant. Yes we can re-build over the summer and invest (hopefully) in yet another new squad and push on for next year - but that should be plan B. Plan A should be to try and recover what's left of this season. We all know the transfer window is closed but surely we could try (and this could be happening behind the scenes) to get in 1 or 2 players that will make the big difference. This would boost the team and give that bit of added impetus to try and get back into the play-offs and to have a realistic chance for the big games coming up (Southampton x 2, Huddersfield, Bournemouth, etc.) - if we won those we would be right back in the mix and with a big chance of the play-offs and, at the very least, a chance of Championship football where the rewards are so much bigger in every sense of the word.
I think the board have written the season off! I think Powelly has said there's too many problem areas in this team! This has to be the worst team i have seen down there! Our players have a problem with consistancy! Sometimes i see us play and come away really enthusiastic by an individual players performance and believe they will push on and then they just go back to being sh*te! i.e Wagstaff, Racon, Reidy, Francis, Elliott, Benson to name a few, we have all seen flashes of class from these guys but its always to rare! When Powell recruits in the summer i hope he looks for players that dont score the one off wonder goal or showboats! We need a couple of players like Semedo that with out fail will be a 7or 8 out of 10 for 90% of the season! Only they have to be more creative than Jose! lol! I would say i am hardcore Charlton but the last few home games have left me feeling like i couldn't care less about tonights result because we are gonna be finishing mid table anyway! And am far more excited about watching the Arsenal - Barca game and watching some decent football for a change! Although i know i will keep checking sky sports updated scores on lap top whilst watching the game!
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]Good post.
As far as I see it this is a never-ending circle unless you can get out of here. You have a squad that will be blown apart and have to be rebuilt on pretty much an annual basis, the longer we are here, the lower the crowds are, the lower the quality of player that is willing to join us, the lower the tv revenue gets if we are on less as we are a lower draw, the higher the shortfall that the board will have to make up and that will come out of the playing budget and it goes round and round and round.
[cite]Posted By: cafc-west[/cite] Yes we can re-build over the summer and invest (hopefully) in yet another new squad and push on for next year - but that should be plan B. Plan A should be to try and recover what's left of this season.
key points for me.
If not this season then it has to be next season but that will not be any easier, in fact it will be harder, so at least give it a go this term.
[cite]Posted By: boogica[/cite]let me tell you now a lot of the present squad wont be here next season that is fact ,even if by some sort of miracle we do get promoted .
I often read things you put on here that you state are "fact" and it doesn't ever seem to come to pass.
as a result of this I shall disregard you statements for I believe them to be spoken with forked tongue!
Comments
Therefore, you expect him to make a full assesment of what he needs, tell the board and get them to then miraculously buy these players in the few days available.
This is the real world, not a playstation game.
I'm Irish but if i was living over there I'd be going to every match no matter what.
So to those who do go to games a lot, when losing a few games like lately, can you actually see the crowds dwindling and turning on the team?
It's not like he would have been watching us while he was at Leicester, & I recall he said as much in an interview in his first few weeks with us.
We had a four game winning start. Yes, we were not convincing, & we definitely rode our luck in those games, but as that famous quote goes: 'It's a results driven business', & he can't have been totally put off by what he had seen, from the players at his disposal at the time, especially with the points going on the board.
He would have been casting his eye about for players, & has been trying to bring players in, but as I said before, he has been unlucky, & just plain outmuscled by clubs in higher divisions.
I don't disagree that we haven't played well, but we haven't got the best squad, & that comes from assembling players on a total shoestring. We have been punching over our weight realistically this season, but we aren't out of it just yet.
I'm happy to accept that we need a thorough re-building if we don't go up, but will get behind the team in the hope that we do.
You are a CAFC man & will be there come what May, & so will most of us, hopefully all, here, but I think the most important thing to come out of this season is the fact that we are financially secure now.
Without the threat of admin', or liquidation, we can actually look to the future with some cash on the hip, & the positivity that whatever happens, promotion or not, we are building for the future, with a real Charlton man in the managers role.
Which, is what I think all of us want, or at least have wanted over the last few years.
I think cash will be spent in the summer, in either scenario of promotion, or another 3rd tier season (hopefully not relegation), but I think everbody from CP to Jiminez & the board will be working extremely hard to get a couple more players in on loan now, to try & make the difference up in the team/squad for the rest of this season, & hopefully an exit upwards.
Dont give up hope yet!
See this link to the Newsshoper
Slater
I was paraphrasing what he I believe he meant. What he actually says is "promotion this season will be a bonus", and coupled with the other things he says about time to rebuild, I take that to mean that financially and mentally, he has written off this season promotion wise.
That to me was obvious from the day that they handed the job to a rookie manager. Their plan is evolution not revolution - he said that as well.
Time for a brand new midfield in my opinion .
For me it's either or, but not both.
I also believe that they both earn far more than they are worth and that may well be significant when discussions are held.
Also, I feel that players purchased in the January window are quite often over-priced as panic sets in. How often has a few purchases in January really made a significant difference to a promotion chasing team?
I think this is about right intellectually. I would add though that financially they will have written it off.
This is for me, the main difference between pre Slater/Jimenez and when they took over. The old regime could barely cope failing to get promotion, they were in a classic financial bind. Needing the money that promotion might bring but not having enough to afford gambling all their resources in a dash for promotion. In short they couldn't afford to gamble but they couldn't really afford not to gamble. In the end they fell between two stalls.
Last season Norwich were in a desperate financial state. They absolutely had to get promotion or they were potentially doomed. I saw some information about their accounts which suggested that their main creditor had held off until the end of the season. In that situation, it pretty much forces the club to go for broke because there is no option.
In Charlton's case, there were enough resources to stave off a quick death but not enough to stave off a slow death.
Our financial future is much more secure thus time is not as pressing as it was hitherto.
Unfortunately some people can't seem to get their heads around the pre and post takeover comments from "the club" - I don't think they get the fact that although "the club" is the same the circumstances and personnel have changed.
If they had money to spend, they would have. Lots of teams were in trouble financially and would have taken money for stars in January, like Plymouth did.
I think you'll be surprised and that lots of the current squad will remain.
Oh you tease.......good surprise?
We are already finding it hard to recruit loan players due to the league we are in. Why will that change next season?
The good news is that the Club won't go in administration, as was possible before, without promotion. We still had, and still may have, a chance of going up this season. That is a far better proposition and the Championship far better place to re-build the Club and team than league one. The income will be higher, crowds will rise, the quality of players available (loan or buy) to us will be higher.
In league one for a third season will we be seen as even less attractive than now. One or both of Huddersfield and Southampton could still be in the league as will the likes of Sheffield Utd, Preston and Scunthorpe (who know how to get out of this division) so promotion will be no gimme.
The new board said promotion was what they wanted when they came in so I'm not sure why that should have changed.
We have up to 14 players out of contract in the summer. Some will be kids we will be happy to lose. Others like Semedo, Racon and Youga are on huge wages (rumoured to be £6k, £6k and £8k pw respectively) which we will be happy to lose. That doesn't automatically mean losing the players (opinions will differ on if we should or not) as we can try to re-sign them on lower wages.
But we seem to be assuming that if we stay down the good players will all want to stay. We've already seem Pawel Abbott orchestrate a move (according to some people) to another club. All the other players have agents and contacts and could do the same thing. Jenkinson and Llera have been MOTM in recent games. What is to stop a Championship side signing either of them? Good riddance you might say but that means we have to recruit a whole new squad again, pay the wages and fees for them and mould them into a team. Easier said than done.
It's great to give the new manager time and not put him under pressure. If not this year then I'll be there supporting them next season. I've already bought my ST for the next 4 seasons but sometimes you have to seize the opportunities when they come along as they may not come again.
Where are Swindon, who beat us in the play-offs, now? Plymouth had plans for a new World cup stadium and a push for the Premier league a couple of seasons ago. And if you want another example of how Clubs can not stand still but need to keep running forward to just stay up with the others then look no further than SE7
And one last point. Where is the evidence that the new board will spend significant money on wages and fees? They didn't do so in January when we were in the play-off positions and we were on a roll and they haven't done so since the 93 day milestone was passed.
It goes back to the same questions that were being asked when they took over. 1 who owns the club? 2. What is the business plan? 3.What is the level of investment? 4. What are the plans for the Academy? 5. What are the plans for the Valley? and 6. What is the exit strategy?
As far as I see it this is a never-ending circle unless you can get out of here. You have a squad that will be blown apart and have to be rebuilt on pretty much an annual basis, the longer we are here, the lower the crowds are, the lower the quality of player that is willing to join us, the lower the tv revenue gets if we are on less as we are a lower draw, the higher the shortfall that the board will have to make up and that will come out of the playing budget and it goes round and round and round. As Henry says, we will have double figures and perhaps even closer to 20 than 10 players leaving in the summer... we cannot be trotting out the line that we are "gelling" or "in transition" as we will be doing that almost perpetually.
Promotion was meant to be easier this season with Leeds and Norwich out of the way, problem is sides have stepped into their shoes with money (Southampton and Huddersfield) and quality (Brighton and Peterboro) or just downright hunger, momentum and hard-work (Bournemouth). Two of those won't go up, another massive club could step down in Sheffield United and accompanied by a hardy and wily club used to making it work at this level (Scunthorpe).
There is no such thing as time in modern football, there is only the time that you buy can buy yourselves.
key points for me.
If not this season then it has to be next season but that will not be any easier, in fact it will be harder, so at least give it a go this term.
I often read things you put on here that you state are "fact" and it doesn't ever seem to come to pass.
as a result of this I shall disregard you statements for I believe them to be spoken with forked tongue!