Thank God for the below post by Airman. It just stopped me in time from slitting my wrists :-)
Posted by Airman Brown - "The current squad is what it is, the question is whether as a club we should be putting out a team that usually sees off the likes of Notts County, Hartlepool, Exeter and all the other corner-shop clubs that make up the majority of this division. Of course we should, even on our current playing budget. That's not meant to be disrespectful. The difference in scale between these clubs and Charlton is enormous.
However, I am not too demoralised by the last three matches because I can tell you from the inside the mood at the club has changed dramatically since the new owners and Chris Powell arrived. I still think we can get up this season and suspect that there will be some action in the next week to try to help achieve that, but whether that happens or not I don't see any significant risk of us staying in this division in the medium term."
Had the pleasure of seeing us on the box in oz. We played some good football at times, however.....
Doc has past it, endless hoofing up field, or out of play when he had time on the ball. He has had a great career, but I can see why norwich got rid of him. There was to much uncertaincy in defence too.
Midfield, racon and semendo, to much alike. They were either to far away from the defence when they were in possession, or to deep when we were pushing forward. Positional play was terrible from both of them.
We looked quite good up front, anyisah is a good forward to have in this league, bwp and ne have class.
Overall, I felt we were half a yard off the pace when not in possesion,.need to hussle a little more.
Its hard to judge from afar, and not see the other promotion hopefulls play, but centre mid and centre back needs fixing asap.
No kha. The point is that some people seem to write off EVERY win as "lucky", which suggests the opposition was "unlucky", but then don't apply the same logic to narrow defeats where we were "unlucky" and therefore, conversely, the opposition can be said to be "lucky".
Not every win is lucky, in the same way that not every defeat is unlucky - but some people seem to want to have their miserable way no matter what the performance/result and give absolutely no credit where it's due.
For the record I don't think that we have been consistantly good enough this season, but I don't write off every point we have earnt as "lucky".
I repeat, some of our fans are w**kers who seem to constantly want to run the club down and wallow in misery. That's up to them if they want to do it, but they ain't getting any change out of me.
CommentAuthorJohnnyH2 CommentTime1 day ago quote# 110
Posted By: LenGlover
I can't comment directly on last night's match as I didn't see it or hear any commentary.
However I predicted midtable at the start of the season and that is how we are shaping up. Parky did his best to make a silk purse from a sow's ear and Powelly has effectively inherited that.
The one hope of anything better from where we are is that canny old pro Peacock bending Powelly's ear as to tactics and /or Powelly's aura inspiring the dressing room so that we go on a run and the increased confidence inspires all involved with the club.
Southampton on Tuesday is a massive game. Lose that and I think we really can kiss automatic promotion goodbye and the ongoing disappointment will probably adversely affect any play-off chances too.
Southampton is a massive game. But first we need to deal with Carlise on Tuesday night.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]No kha. The point is that some people seem to write off EVERY win as "lucky", which suggests the opposition was "unlucky", but then don't apply the same logic to narrow defeats where we were "unlucky" and therefore, conversely, the opposition can be said to be "lucky".
Not every win is lucky, in the same way that not every defeat is unlucky - but some people seem to want to have their miserable way no matter what the performance/result and give absolutely no credit where it's due.
For the record I don't think that we have been consistantly good enough this season, but I don't write off every point we have earnt as "lucky".
I repeat, some of our fans are w**kers who seem to constantly want to run the club down and wallow in misery. That's up to them if they want to do it, but they ain't getting any change out of me.
We're not good enough and virtually all on this board agree with that. A couple of good loans and we may just have a chance. If we have luck on our side we tend to win (CP's first 4 games pretty much) and if we don't we tend to lose (Notts C and Exeter) - most games are in the balance because we are third rate and are not good enough for what we want and expect from Charlton Athletic. That belief does not make you a wanker, it makes you a realist.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]No kha. The point is that some people seem to write off EVERY win as "lucky", which suggests the opposition was "unlucky", but then don't apply the same logic to narrow defeats where we were "unlucky" and therefore, conversely, the opposition can be said to be "lucky".
Not every win is lucky, in the same way that not every defeat is unlucky - but some people seem to want to have their miserable way no matter what the performance/result and give absolutely no credit where it's due.
For the record I don't think that we have been consistantly good enough this season, but I don't write off every point we have earnt as "lucky".
I repeat, some of our fans are w**kers who seem to constantly want to run the club down and wallow in misery. That's up to them if they want to do it, but they ain't getting any change out of me.
We're not good enough and virtually all on this board agree with that. A couple of good loans and we may just have a chance. If we have luck on our side we tend to win (CP's first 4 games pretty much) and if we don't we tend to lose (Notts C and Exeter) - most games are in the balance because we are third rate and are not good enough for what we want and expect from Charlton Athletic. That belief does not make you a wanker, it makes you a realist.
Well said. I think we can still get promotion this season but it is getting less likely each week with the performances that we have seen and realistically we need decent results over the next couple of home games to give the players belief. Calling for CP's head is as ludicrous as expecting him to be the next Alex Fergusson in just six weeks. The board will give him time and we need to but that does not mean he is beyond criticism for errors that he makes, especially if they are repeated and nor are the board.
Having an alternative view does not make you a tosser it makes you an individual, its the way you express that view may make you a tosser.
I'm no shrinking violet but wonder whether some of the personal insults on here are beginning to turn the site into another Your Views ....
I've been made aware this morning of 2 "lurkers" who have decided to turn their backs following recent unnecessary vitriol..such a pity as I believe they'll miss out on some highly constructive criticism as well as some excellent & supportive posts regarding our beloved Club and all who sail in her.
Come on guys 'n gals.....By all means agree to differ but try to respect others' views, however outrageous you feel they may be.
We're Charlton. we're better than that. Aren't we ?
If you win games you deserve to lose or draw- then at some point your luck is going to run out - the four on the trot we won could all have been different outcomes so that form without the performances wasn't sustainable. I actually thought, on a difficult pitch which was close to a disgrace, we played well and had we won, as we deserved top do, we would have all been saying what a great performance it was. We had 3 good fowards playing but whilst they caused Notts a lot of problems, they messed up in fornt of goal. They are well above average for this league though so just a bad day at the office and a difficult pitch that made it hard to get a good strike. The defence that has taken some criticism prevented Notts County, who are very strong at home btw, from any decent chances and they had to rely on shots from outside the area- their goal was the most fortuitous imaginable and Notts wouldn't have scored any other way if they had another 90 minutes. We had BWP shooting wide when keeper spilled (1), Anyinsah close in mis kick on the surface (2), Eccleston 1 on 1 where keeper did well (3), Eccleston through but rushed shot (4), Anyinsah likely to score before keeper rushed into him (which was a clear red) (5) the Penalty (6), Dailly over the bar with keeper beaten (7) - These were 7 chances better than Notts had.
If you lose games you deserve to win - then at some point your bad luck is going to run out. As long as we hold our nerve and keep our confidence, I can see a strong side forming. I'd like to see a natural left back and a centre midfileder if Racon isn't going to do the
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]If you win games you deserve to lose or draw- then at some point your luck is going to run out - the four on the trot we won could all have been different outcomes so that form without the performances wasn't sustainable. I actually thought, on a difficult pitch which was close to a disgrace, we played well and had we won, as we deserved top do, we would have all been saying what a great performance it was. We had 3 good fowards playing but whilst they caused Notts a lot of problems, they messed up in fornt of goal. They are well above average for this league though so just a bad day at the office and a difficult pitch that made it hard to get a good strike. The defence that has taken some criticism prevented Notts County, who are very strong at home btw, from any decent chances and they had to rely on shots from outside the area- their goal was the most fortuitous imaginable and Notts wouldn't have scored any other way if they had another 90 minutes. We had BWP shooting wide when keeper spilled (1), Anyinsah close in mis kick on the surface (2), Eccleston 1 on 1 where keeper did well (3), Eccleston through but rushed shot (4), Anyinsah likely to score before keeper rushed into him (which was a clear red) (5) the Penalty (6), Dailly over the bar with keeper beaten (7) - These were 7 chances better than Notts had.
If you lose games you deserve to win - then at some point your bad luck is going to run out. As long as we hold our nerve and keep our confidence, I can see a strong side forming. I'd like to see a natural left back and a centre midfileder if Racon isn't going to do the
Good assessment really and alot better insight than doing it a few hours after the game tbf
There's no such thing as luck. It's pretty illogical to think that it exists. We weren’t “unlucky” against Notts County, we defended poorly for their goal and didn’t take our chance when it was served to us on a platter. There was no mysterious presence guiding the ball in either of those occasions, or on any other occasion.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]In which case we weren't "lucky" to win four on the trot then, were we?
We were lucky to encounter a 4th official who did his job properly against Colchester. If that "goal" had stood I don't think we would have won that match.
I do sort of agree with you in that you can't put your fortunes down to luck. Of course luck exists though, nobody could seriously claim that County's goal was anything other than lucky. But the thing about luck is that it goes with you and against you and will generally even itself out. If you win games but are lucky, you can expect to lose games too, even if you can claim to be unlucky in those.
If you toss a coin you can expect on avaerage to be lucky/unlucky 50% of the time. If you through a dice and have numbers 1-5, you can expect to be lucky 80% of the time. I think when we beat Posh, it was more a 50/50, when we beat Plymouth it was 60/40 in our favour, when we beat Yeovil it was 40/60 against us based on our play. That's where the luck comes in.
I think our performance on Friday was more in the 20/80 realm (in our favour). If we can sustain and improve on that level of performance then we can expect to win quite a few going forwards. We were unlucky on friday but encouragingly so IMO. The real key is that the players don't lose confidence and the fans stick with the team. I thought our biggest issue at the start of the season was forwards- it is now an area of strength IMO. We can turn this around and have to maintain the level where we create 7 or 8 good chances to our opponents 1 or 2. The dice is then loaded in your favour.
Nope we weren’t lucky at all. I really think people just say “luck” when something happens and they can’t explain it, say a deflection puts the ball in the net or a shot hits the bar instead of going in. But it really isn’t luck, it’s a logical outcome based on the trajectory and velocity of the ball. Something unintentional may have happened to affect one of those elements, but the reason wasn’t some sort of mysterious supernatural force which guides us all. Some people may believe in it, that’s fair enough, some people believe in ghosts and fairies and some don’t. I just don’t believe in luck.
But that's not luck though is it Len - not if luck doesn't exist.
That's my point. Some - note SOME - people seem to want to write off our 4 wins as "lucky" but then not judge our two "unlucky" defeats in the same way.
You can't have both. It's one thing or the other. I don't mind which, but it CAN'T be both just to fulfil some whining, moaning, put the club down at every opportunity agenda.
“If you toss a coin you can expect on avaerage to be lucky/unlucky 50% of the time.”
No you can’t. Whether you call it right will be based on how the coin is flipped, at what force, and how it lands (onto what surface etc). None of that is luck, it’s likely that you would know the answer to this question in advance (although of course you may) but it wouldn’t be luck if you called it right.
“If you through a dice and have numbers 1-5, you can expect to be lucky 80% of the time. “
But that wont be luck. You would just have a much better chance of your numbers coming up based on pure mathematics, this example shows clear logic and I would find it very strange that anyone would consider this to be anything but logical.
“I think when we beat Posh, it was more a 50/50, when we beat Plymouth it was 60/40 in our favour, when we beat Yeovil it was 40/60 against us based on our play. That's where the luck comes in.”
Again I don’t think so. When we beat a team it’s because individual moments in the game happen. For instance, if a game is 60/40 in our favour (in terms of how both teams are playing using your example of Plymouth) then it’s logical that that’s a game we would win. If that ratio was against us, then it’s logical we would lose.
It gets interesting when people think we were the better team and still lost. That’s when people say “unlucky”. It’s partly an act of habit, even I do it despite the fact that I don’t think it really exists. But when you really think about it, and think about what “luck” is it doesn’t make any sense. Are we saying that there is a power out there, watching over everything and making sure that Bradley Wright-Phillips misses a penalty, or that Chris Powell wins four games in a row ?
Haha, I can normally explain what I’m thinking about better but I’m a wee bit tender today after watching the Arsenal game down the pub yesterday ! I do find it interesting though that many people who don’t believe in God, or at least are open to questioning whether he exists or not, don’t also question whether luck exisits or not. They don’t ask why luck exists, what is it, who controls it, when did it’s powers begin etc. We just blindly believe it because we grew up with people telling us something was or wasn’t lucky, we hear it every day and it is so ingrained in our conscious that we don’t stop and consider if declaring something as “lucky” actually makes sense.
Ineteresting argument but flawed IMO. You can be beaten or win by a mis kick, dodgy ref decsision, wood work etc... In a close game any one of these can have a major influence. Can anybody who has played football claim they haven't scored a flukey goal or been a bit luck or indeed unlucky. If you were a striker say who on acerage took 4 opportunities out of 10, you might get a game where you get 3 chances and score 3 and you might get a game when you get 6 chances and score 0. The average generally evens itself out but you are a 4 in 10 striker not a 0 in 6 or a 3 in 3. Luck plays a part.
On another (luckier day) the number and type of our chances on Friday would have resulted in 2+ goals. The number of County chances would more often than not result in 0 goals. This is not to say that over the season we have been unlucky or they have been lucky. they were very unlucky at the Valley, where Hughes, who is a decent striker missed 3 or 4 really good chances, including a penalty. The point is you have to make the mathematics work so that luck becomes less of a factor. On Friday we did this - take luck out of the equation and we would probably have won that game 7 times out of 8. We were very unlucky on Friday and at the Home game v County we were very lucky. Usually though you are a little bit lucky or unlucky and if you are not sufficiently dominant in your performance- this little bit can cost you as well as help you. It will roughly- though not exactly even itself out. If you create 7 chances which are better than your opponents, as we did on Friday, you are going to allow Maths to beat luck - but not every time. I say, we were unlucky and we need to keep this positive ratio up because it hasn't been common this season for us to dominate the good chances so.
i think it's lucky when a player that is pony and never gets dropped gets injured and forces the manager to play a better one that leads to better results
Comments
He has the benefit of an insider's view and we should listen to his words.
Posted by Airman Brown - "The current squad is what it is, the question is whether as a club we should be putting out a team that usually sees off the likes of Notts County, Hartlepool, Exeter and all the other corner-shop clubs that make up the majority of this division. Of course we should, even on our current playing budget. That's not meant to be disrespectful. The difference in scale between these clubs and Charlton is enormous.
However, I am not too demoralised by the last three matches because I can tell you from the inside the mood at the club has changed dramatically since the new owners and Chris Powell arrived. I still think we can get up this season and suspect that there will be some action in the next week to try to help achieve that, but whether that happens or not I don't see any significant risk of us staying in this division in the medium term."
On a decent surface I fancy we would have come out as winners but the pitch never allowed us to play with any confidence.
We really missed Abbott's ability to hold the ball up, he would have given us an extra dimension.
I did not like Jenkinson/Eccelstone on the left in the second-half, it totally unbalanced the team.
My MOM by a country mile was Simon Francis, he had a stormer in very difficult conditions and I can't believe some of the stick that he gets!
Apparently when we win or draw closely fought games and "have a bit of luck" it apparently proves we are not good enough.
And when we don't win or draw games and "have a bit of bad luck" it apparently proves we are not good enough.
Proves one thing in my book - a lot of our fans are w***ers.
We played some good football at times, however.....
Doc has past it, endless hoofing up field, or out of play when he had time on the ball.
He has had a great career, but I can see why norwich got rid of him. There was to much uncertaincy in defence too.
Midfield, racon and semendo, to much alike. They were either to far away from the defence when they were in possession, or to deep when we were pushing forward.
Positional play was terrible from both of them.
We looked quite good up front, anyisah is a good forward to have in this league, bwp and ne have class.
Overall, I felt we were half a yard off the pace when not in possesion,.need to hussle a little more.
Its hard to judge from afar, and not see the other promotion hopefulls play, but centre mid and centre back needs fixing asap.
Surely only winning when we are lucky, and losing when we are not does demonstrate that we are not good enough?
Not every win is lucky, in the same way that not every defeat is unlucky - but some people seem to want to have their miserable way no matter what the performance/result and give absolutely no credit where it's due.
For the record I don't think that we have been consistantly good enough this season, but I don't write off every point we have earnt as "lucky".
I repeat, some of our fans are w**kers who seem to constantly want to run the club down and wallow in misery. That's up to them if they want to do it, but they ain't getting any change out of me.
Posted By: LenGlover
I can't comment directly on last night's match as I didn't see it or hear any commentary.
However I predicted midtable at the start of the season and that is how we are shaping up. Parky did his best to make a silk purse from a sow's ear and Powelly has effectively inherited that.
The one hope of anything better from where we are is that canny old pro Peacock bending Powelly's ear as to tactics and /or Powelly's aura inspiring the dressing room so that we go on a run and the increased confidence inspires all involved with the club.
Southampton on Tuesday is a massive game. Lose that and I think we really can kiss automatic promotion goodbye and the ongoing disappointment will probably adversely affect any play-off chances too.
Southampton is a massive game. But first we need to deal with Carlise on Tuesday night.
Yes thanks Johnny!
I got my rearranged Tuesday fixtures mixed up!
Still think we need 3 points though on Tuesday.
COYR!
We're not good enough and virtually all on this board agree with that. A couple of good loans and we may just have a chance. If we have luck on our side we tend to win (CP's first 4 games pretty much) and if we don't we tend to lose (Notts C and Exeter) - most games are in the balance because we are third rate and are not good enough for what we want and expect from Charlton Athletic. That belief does not make you a wanker, it makes you a realist.
Well said. I think we can still get promotion this season but it is getting less likely each week with the performances that we have seen and realistically we need decent results over the next couple of home games to give the players belief. Calling for CP's head is as ludicrous as expecting him to be the next Alex Fergusson in just six weeks. The board will give him time and we need to but that does not mean he is beyond criticism for errors that he makes, especially if they are repeated and nor are the board.
Having an alternative view does not make you a tosser it makes you an individual, its the way you express that view may make you a tosser.
I'm no shrinking violet but wonder whether some of the personal insults on here are beginning to turn the site into another Your Views ....
I've been made aware this morning of 2 "lurkers" who have decided to turn their backs following recent unnecessary vitriol..such a pity as I believe they'll miss out on some highly constructive criticism as well as some excellent & supportive posts regarding our beloved Club and all who sail in her.
Come on guys 'n gals.....By all means agree to differ but try to respect others' views, however outrageous you feel they may be.
We're Charlton. we're better than that. Aren't we ?
If you lose games you deserve to win - then at some point your bad luck is going to run out. As long as we hold our nerve and keep our confidence, I can see a strong side forming. I'd like to see a natural left back and a centre midfileder if Racon isn't going to do the
Good assessment really and alot better insight than doing it a few hours after the game tbf
We were lucky to encounter a 4th official who did his job properly against Colchester. If that "goal" had stood I don't think we would have won that match.
Apart from that I agree with you.
If you toss a coin you can expect on avaerage to be lucky/unlucky 50% of the time. If you through a dice and have numbers 1-5, you can expect to be lucky 80% of the time. I think when we beat Posh, it was more a 50/50, when we beat Plymouth it was 60/40 in our favour, when we beat Yeovil it was 40/60 against us based on our play. That's where the luck comes in.
I think our performance on Friday was more in the 20/80 realm (in our favour). If we can sustain and improve on that level of performance then we can expect to win quite a few going forwards. We were unlucky on friday but encouragingly so IMO. The real key is that the players don't lose confidence and the fans stick with the team. I thought our biggest issue at the start of the season was forwards- it is now an area of strength IMO. We can turn this around and have to maintain the level where we create 7 or 8 good chances to our opponents 1 or 2. The dice is then loaded in your favour.
That's my point. Some - note SOME - people seem to want to write off our 4 wins as "lucky" but then not judge our two "unlucky" defeats in the same way.
You can't have both. It's one thing or the other. I don't mind which, but it CAN'T be both just to fulfil some whining, moaning, put the club down at every opportunity agenda.
Don't worry, English was probably more your subject ;0)
No you can’t. Whether you call it right will be based on how the coin is flipped, at what force, and how it lands (onto what surface etc). None of that is luck, it’s likely that you would know the answer to this question in advance (although of course you may) but it wouldn’t be luck if you called it right.
“If you through a dice and have numbers 1-5, you can expect to be lucky 80% of the time. “
But that wont be luck. You would just have a much better chance of your numbers coming up based on pure mathematics, this example shows clear logic and I would find it very strange that anyone would consider this to be anything but logical.
“I think when we beat Posh, it was more a 50/50, when we beat Plymouth it was 60/40 in our favour, when we beat Yeovil it was 40/60 against us based on our play. That's where the luck comes in.”
Again I don’t think so. When we beat a team it’s because individual moments in the game happen. For instance, if a game is 60/40 in our favour (in terms of how both teams are playing using your example of Plymouth) then it’s logical that that’s a game we would win. If that ratio was against us, then it’s logical we would lose.
It gets interesting when people think we were the better team and still lost. That’s when people say “unlucky”. It’s partly an act of habit, even I do it despite the fact that I don’t think it really exists. But when you really think about it, and think about what “luck” is it doesn’t make any sense. Are we saying that there is a power out there, watching over everything and making sure that Bradley Wright-Phillips misses a penalty, or that Chris Powell wins four games in a row ?
It's not luck when our or opposition players go through on goal and don't have the composure to score.
Could say it's luck when a goal is disallowed like it was against Colchester though.
On another (luckier day) the number and type of our chances on Friday would have resulted in 2+ goals. The number of County chances would more often than not result in 0 goals. This is not to say that over the season we have been unlucky or they have been lucky. they were very unlucky at the Valley, where Hughes, who is a decent striker missed 3 or 4 really good chances, including a penalty. The point is you have to make the mathematics work so that luck becomes less of a factor. On Friday we did this - take luck out of the equation and we would probably have won that game 7 times out of 8. We were very unlucky on Friday and at the Home game v County we were very lucky. Usually though you are a little bit lucky or unlucky and if you are not sufficiently dominant in your performance- this little bit can cost you as well as help you. It will roughly- though not exactly even itself out. If you create 7 chances which are better than your opponents, as we did on Friday, you are going to allow Maths to beat luck - but not every time. I say, we were unlucky and we need to keep this positive ratio up because it hasn't been common this season for us to dominate the good chances so.