[cite]Posted By: Shrew[/cite]
Great Charlton crowd, kept singing throughout and really got behind the team. its so good to be with an away crowd like this compared to the moaners I was surrounded by in north lower at the Peterborough game.
Exactly my point
When everyone looks for an excuse if we lose , if there's booooing blame the boooers
The above quote shows good support at county and we lost and the p'boro game there was moaning and a few booooos and we won FACT
We played better than we did when we beat Notts County at the Valley, and yet we lost - but that's life in the lower leagues.
Was struck by GH's question - would it be any different, whoever was the manager, because there's only so much you can do with that squad of players?
The answer may be that we've had the 'new manager bounce' and a litle bit of 'beginner's luck' for SCP - and that netted a dozen points, most of which we would not have got under the old regime. Now it's back to how we were, and the stark reality that the squad is not good enough to storm division three and with those players, our natural place is upper mid-table.
That said the managerial change still had to be made and I do hope we haven't reached the point when people start blaming the new owners and saying they made a mistake.
I thought Parkinson's h/t comments on Sky were revealing. Asked what he would be saying in the dressing room if he was still manager, he simply said ''more of the same''.
I felt that probably showed us why we have conceded more goals this season between 45-60 mins than in any other period. I have one-thousandth of PP's footballing knowledge and experience. But even I could see that Ince would be sharpening them up, making tactical changes and looking for a way to play around us which had eluded County in the first half. So all of that had to be part of the half-time assessment and regrouping, plus a discussion of how to adjust to the state of the pitch, given it was clearly going to get worse. If I could see that loads of work needed doing at h/t, how come Pundit Parkinson's sole, simple solution was ''more of the same , please lads'' ?
[cite]Posted By: Killarahales[/cite]but we shouldn't need luck against teams like Notts County.
why not? Cause we are Barcelona I suppose. We are not that much better than them. We are not much better than half of this shitty league.
Totally agree, just because we used to be a Premier League side we think we are better than we are. We have to be honest that with a few exceptions we have got journeymen footballers. We have got 4 games coming up in quick succession and if we don't get something from these games we will sink like a stone.
Pitch terrible, but although it was mostly balls over the top to turn them I actually think given the conditions one of our best performances for a while. We stopped creating any real chances and should have been a couple in front at half time. Ecclestone has had a bad couple of games in front of goal and last night proved why great goal scorers do not always make the best penalty takers. One final thing that does worry me is that Powell seems to be unsure on his selection, oh and the fact that Reid is still a shadow of the player we saw last season, to which I expect comments about lack of games etc, but he could still show something in his lack luster cameos
May be the worse the performance I've ever seen, although it's hard to tell after all the crap we've seen. Before the match everyone in hooters was predicting a home win and I refused to have a bet with a county fan at work. Things are seriously bad on the pitch.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]I have one-thousandth of PP's footballing knowledge and experience. But even I could see that Ince would be sharpening them up, making tactical changes and looking for a way to play around us which had eluded County in the first half. So all of that had to be part of the half-time assessment and regrouping, plus a discussion of how to adjust to the state of the pitch, given it was clearly going to get worse. If I could see that loads of work needed doing at h/t, how come Pundit Parkinson's sole, simple solution was ''more of the same , please lads'' ?
Can we have a moratorium on Parky comments? It was a TV soundbite for christ's sake. When we won four on the trot it was all 'we wouldn't have done this when Parky was in charge'. Lose a few and it's 'this goes to show how bad Parky and his squad were'. Guy can't win. The truth is we don't know how Parky would have done, who he would have bought or loaned, what he would have done in any given match. It's CP's job now - he's the boss and the buck stops with him. He's got, and deserves, our patience and support but it's him who should get judged on performances now.
Agree with your comment about Parky's and your relative knowledge and experience tho.
Why? I don't like it when people try to shut down free and open debate , so three facts.
1.He was a highly-paid TV pundit and he was asked what Powell should be telling his players at half-time. He answered ''more of the same''. And that was the extent of it. And it wasn't a sound-bite. They had 15 minutes to fill!
2.Under Parkinson we conceded more goals in the first 15 mins after half-time than in any other period of play.
3.Under Powell we have tended to play better in the second-half (well, at least until last night.)
Some might conclude from this that Powell's half-time team talks are more stirring and tactically astute. I couldn't possibly comment.
Frankly, dont see any difference between CPs performance so far and Parky's, if on-pitch performance is anything to go by. NC were rubbish, and they beat us so we were rubbisher. Still glad we have CP in charge, and I believe that in the long run his learning curve and positive influence on the team will tell. But right now? Can't tell the difference. Defending was dismal. If they hadn't been as shit as they are we would have been in worse trouble.
I can't comment directly on last night's match as I didn't see it or hear any commentary.
However I predicted midtable at the start of the season and that is how we are shaping up. Parky did his best to make a silk purse from a sow's ear and Powelly has effectively inherited that.
The one hope of anything better from where we are is that canny old pro Peacock bending Powelly's ear as to tactics and /or Powelly's aura inspiring the dressing room so that we go on a run and the increased confidence inspires all involved with the club.
Southampton on Tuesday is a massive game. Lose that and I think we really can kiss automatic promotion goodbye and the ongoing disappointment will probably adversely affect any play-off chances too.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]Why? I don't like it when people try to shut down free and open debate
I explained why I thought several comments, including yours, are unfair and not worthy of further repetition. You can disagree but don't turn it into an 'inalienable right to free speech' argument. Save that for the 'dangerous world' thread.
As for your facts, some will disagree about how Parky came across on TV (see separate discussion). I don't know - I was concentrating on other stuff during half time. I also don't know if Powell is a better manager than Parky. I hope so.
as has been said already, we've seen the new manager euphoria, now it's back to basics with most of the same squad we started the year with. Maybe cp isnlt able to get more out of ghese player's than parky would have done, but when cp gets to change the squad, will be the time to judge his success. This league is so close for 'most' of the top 12 teams and the difference between winning and losing isn't necessarily about who plays the best football.
This seems to me a reasonable assessment. I also hope and believe that in the summer CP will have had half a season to shake out the winners and losers in the squad and hopefully MS will make a few ££'s availabe and we'll do a Brighton next year!
What goes around comes around? At The Valley v Notts County, they missed a pen, were just about the better team, had better chances, yet we scored and won it 1-0. Last night almost the exact opposite happened. Same as we were a bit lucky to win Powell's first four games, and now have been a bit unlucky to lose the last three.
It's football. Don't panic - and that includes you, Powelly!!
(Good to see Parky on the box talking sense and not sounding in the least bit bitter...all the best to him.)
On a clear head i have to agree with powell about small margins. Their keeper should of been sent off,bwp missed a sitter after keeper fumbled,eccelstone had a good chance saved after some good football. Second half starts with a lucky goal from then an i really think if bwp took a decent pen we would of gone on to win it
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]I can't comment directly on last night's match as I didn't see it or hear any commentary.
However I predicted midtable at the start of the season and that is how we are shaping up. Parky did his best to make a silk purse from a sow's ear and Powelly has effectively inherited that.
The one hope of anything better from where we are is that canny old pro Peacock bending Powelly's ear as to tactics and /or Powelly's aura inspiring the dressing room so that we go on a run and the increased confidence inspires all involved with the club.
Southampton on Tuesday is a massive game. Lose that and I think we really can kiss automatic promotion goodbye and the ongoing disappointment will probably adversely affect any play-off chances too.
Southampton is a massive game. But first we need to deal with Carlise on Tuesday night.
Why? I don't like it when people try to shut down free and open debate , so three facts.
1.He was a highly-paid TV pundit and he was asked what Powell should be telling his players at half-time. He answered ''more of the same''. And that was the extent of it. And it wasn't a sound-bite. They had 15 minutes to fill!
2.Under Parkinson we conceded more goals in the first 15 mins after half-time than in any other period of play.
3.Under Powell we have tended to play better in the second-half (well, at least until last night.)
Some might conclude from this that Powell's half-time team talks are more stirring and tactically astute. I couldn't possibly comment.
You can look at it that way, but in League One over 1 1/2 seasons under Parky we have only lost 3 in a row once, early on last season. We didn't even lose 3 in a row under Parky in the Championship.
In fact if we lose on Tuesday night, Powell it'll be our worst run of defeats since Les Reed was in charge.
I'm confident we'll at least get a draw on Tuesday so hopefully that won't happen. Though is there really much to debate on Powell and Parky's team talks, based on a comment Parky made as a pundit? We haven't even scored in the first half under Powell. Does that mean his team talks before the game aren't good enough? Or he only realises his tactics are wrong after one half?
What perhaps has been shown so far is that this is a team that can challenge for the play-offs but probably nothing more. Not being in the top 2 was probably down to the quality of player available to us more than poor management by Parky. Without a couple of top quality loanees it doesn't look like Powell will get this team in the automatic places either.
Too early to judge Powell and compare him to Parky. Hopefully he turns out to be a very good manager.
When you watch a game on tele you see things differently as opposed to actually being there live, so i think from watching last night i have made a few observations i may not of usually noticed.
It would seem from interviews so far that Powell wants to create a good passing team who look after the ball. Therefore i would suggest that Racon starts more often. And Ecclestone. As Racon and Ecclestone strike me as our most comfortable players when on the ball. They like to get it down and pass . Semedo is one of my favourite players but when in possession he seems to panic and play the long ball.
Anyinsah does so much for the side he really needs more time in our first team as he can hurt teams. His experience in this division is evident and he will put away chances as well as set up a few for BWP.
Dailly and Doc are alright, i know some will disagree but they win so much in the air and are quite solid overall. In the long term we need a few serious contenders for the CB spot but for now i have no qualms.
as has been said already, we've seen the new manager euphoria, now it's back to basics with most of the same squad we started the year with. Maybe cp isnlt able to get more out of ghese player's than parky would have done, but when cp gets to change the squad, will be the time to judge his success. This league is so close for 'most' of the top 12 teams and the difference between winning and losing isn't necessarily about who plays the best football.
I wish we could forget about Parky, he has gone and the need for us is to look forward. I continue to believe that the plan is to change the squad this Summer into one that will be capable of thriving in the Championship. Of course it would be lovely to gain promotion this season, but thinking about it I cannot see it happening. For a start CP has much to learn, how many long balls did their centre backs eat up last night ? If we were goingto play that way, the one person you had to have was Abbott who might have been able to create something. I keep saying, this is a marathon not a sprint. patience people.
[cite]Posted By: Granpa[/cite]I wish we could forget about Parky, he has gone and the need for us is to look forward. I continue to believe that the plan is to change the squad this Summer into one that will be capable of thriving in the Championship.
I really can't see this being the case. Why would a 'championship-thriving' team want to spend a season in league one. Why would the players come to us?
Regardless of owners' money I honestly think this season is our best chance of going up - there's going to be a lot of change next season regardless but it could see us being stuck here for a few more years if we dont go up.
[cite]Posted By: supaclive[/cite]Doherty is past is.
Jenkinson will become an excellent player in time.
Francis' delivery is terrible - though at least he gets in those positions.
Racon gives away needless fouls and free kicks that hurt us (much like Sharon Ambrose used to also)
At times I felt we played some very decent football. We were direct in the first half but caused them all sorts of problems doing so. Second half, Notts changed their tactics and we didn't know what to do next.
Bad goal, bad penalty. Felt Waggy ran into players and blind alleys when he came on, but Reid did nothing either.
Desperately need a centre half with pace and a central midfielder to just put his foot on the ball and keep it simple at times and then unlock the odd pass. We have no creation from the centre of the park.
[cite]Posted By: supaclive[/cite]Doherty is past is.
Jenkinson will become an excellent player in time.
Francis' delivery is terrible - though at least he gets in those positions.
Racon gives away needless fouls and free kicks that hurt us (much like Sharon Ambrose used to also)
At times I felt we played some very decent football. We were direct in the first half but caused them all sorts of problems doing so. Second half, Notts changed their tactics and we didn't know what to do next.
Bad goal, bad penalty. Felt Waggy ran into players and blind alleys when he came on, but Reid did nothing either.
Desperately need a centre half with pace and a central midfielder to just put his foot on the ball and keep it simple at times and then unlock the odd pass. We have no creation from the centre of the park.
Did not go and only have the view from the comfort of my armchair, so unlike the home game have a limited perspective of the game, as being there always has the advantage, but it is hard to disagree with the above posting.
I thought we could have lost the home tie, and although we had plenty of chances in this away leg,was dissapointed.
I simply do not buy this nonsense about the pitch, yes it was poor, get on with it!
At times Notts County simply were stronger than us, and made up for our 'flair' with determination.
People are saying that we played better first half, well not in the first 25 minutes! twice the ball rolled across the goal mouth, so sorry just do not buy this we were the better team!
The curse of Charlton and tv goes on!...... not the worst performance but the last week may well be the defining week of the season.
Is Docherty able to clear a ball without just kicking it up in the air like a rugby player at the rectory field!...... kick and run mate, kick and run!...... with those conditions you should be at home in Charlton Park on a Sunday morning!
Think we should really just thinking of finishing 6th and making our games advantage over MK and Oldham count.
I'm hoping we might finally find some form which will put us in good shape to have a go in the play offs. But we're far too inconsistent to do anything else.
[cite]Posted By: Killarahales[/cite]but we shouldn't need luck against teams like Notts County.
why not? Cause we are Barcelona I suppose. We are not that much better than them. We are not much better than half of this shitty league.
The current squad is what it is, the question is whether as a club we should be putting out a team that usually sees off the likes of Notts County, Hartlepool, Exeter and all the other corner-shop clubs that make up the majority of this division. Of course we should, even on our current playing budget. That's not meant to be disrespectful. The difference in scale between these clubs and Charlton is enormous.
However, I am not too demoralised by the last three matches because I can tell you from the inside the mood at the club has changed dramatically since the new owners and Chris Powell arrived. I still think we can get up this season and suspect that there will be some action in the next week to try to help achieve that, but whether that happens or not I don't see any significant risk of us staying in this division in the medium term.
Comments
Exactly my point
When everyone looks for an excuse if we lose , if there's booooing blame the boooers
The above quote shows good support at county and we lost and the p'boro game there was moaning and a few booooos and we won FACT
Was struck by GH's question - would it be any different, whoever was the manager, because there's only so much you can do with that squad of players?
The answer may be that we've had the 'new manager bounce' and a litle bit of 'beginner's luck' for SCP - and that netted a dozen points, most of which we would not have got under the old regime. Now it's back to how we were, and the stark reality that the squad is not good enough to storm division three and with those players, our natural place is upper mid-table.
That said the managerial change still had to be made and I do hope we haven't reached the point when people start blaming the new owners and saying they made a mistake.
I thought Parkinson's h/t comments on Sky were revealing. Asked what he would be saying in the dressing room if he was still manager, he simply said ''more of the same''.
I felt that probably showed us why we have conceded more goals this season between 45-60 mins than in any other period. I have one-thousandth of PP's footballing knowledge and experience. But even I could see that Ince would be sharpening them up, making tactical changes and looking for a way to play around us which had eluded County in the first half. So all of that had to be part of the half-time assessment and regrouping, plus a discussion of how to adjust to the state of the pitch, given it was clearly going to get worse. If I could see that loads of work needed doing at h/t, how come Pundit Parkinson's sole, simple solution was ''more of the same , please lads'' ?
Totally agree, just because we used to be a Premier League side we think we are better than we are. We have to be honest that with a few exceptions we have got journeymen footballers. We have got 4 games coming up in quick succession and if we don't get something from these games we will sink like a stone.
Can we have a moratorium on Parky comments? It was a TV soundbite for christ's sake. When we won four on the trot it was all 'we wouldn't have done this when Parky was in charge'. Lose a few and it's 'this goes to show how bad Parky and his squad were'. Guy can't win. The truth is we don't know how Parky would have done, who he would have bought or loaned, what he would have done in any given match. It's CP's job now - he's the boss and the buck stops with him. He's got, and deserves, our patience and support but it's him who should get judged on performances now.
Agree with your comment about Parky's and your relative knowledge and experience tho.
Why? I don't like it when people try to shut down free and open debate , so three facts.
1.He was a highly-paid TV pundit and he was asked what Powell should be telling his players at half-time. He answered ''more of the same''. And that was the extent of it. And it wasn't a sound-bite. They had 15 minutes to fill!
2.Under Parkinson we conceded more goals in the first 15 mins after half-time than in any other period of play.
3.Under Powell we have tended to play better in the second-half (well, at least until last night.)
Some might conclude from this that Powell's half-time team talks are more stirring and tactically astute. I couldn't possibly comment.
However I predicted midtable at the start of the season and that is how we are shaping up. Parky did his best to make a silk purse from a sow's ear and Powelly has effectively inherited that.
The one hope of anything better from where we are is that canny old pro Peacock bending Powelly's ear as to tactics and /or Powelly's aura inspiring the dressing room so that we go on a run and the increased confidence inspires all involved with the club.
Southampton on Tuesday is a massive game. Lose that and I think we really can kiss automatic promotion goodbye and the ongoing disappointment will probably adversely affect any play-off chances too.
I explained why I thought several comments, including yours, are unfair and not worthy of further repetition. You can disagree but don't turn it into an 'inalienable right to free speech' argument. Save that for the 'dangerous world' thread.
As for your facts, some will disagree about how Parky came across on TV (see separate discussion). I don't know - I was concentrating on other stuff during half time. I also don't know if Powell is a better manager than Parky. I hope so.
It's football. Don't panic - and that includes you, Powelly!!
(Good to see Parky on the box talking sense and not sounding in the least bit bitter...all the best to him.)
Southampton is a massive game. But first we need to deal with Carlise on Tuesday night.
In fact if we lose on Tuesday night, Powell it'll be our worst run of defeats since Les Reed was in charge.
I'm confident we'll at least get a draw on Tuesday so hopefully that won't happen. Though is there really much to debate on Powell and Parky's team talks, based on a comment Parky made as a pundit? We haven't even scored in the first half under Powell. Does that mean his team talks before the game aren't good enough? Or he only realises his tactics are wrong after one half?
What perhaps has been shown so far is that this is a team that can challenge for the play-offs but probably nothing more. Not being in the top 2 was probably down to the quality of player available to us more than poor management by Parky. Without a couple of top quality loanees it doesn't look like Powell will get this team in the automatic places either.
Too early to judge Powell and compare him to Parky. Hopefully he turns out to be a very good manager.
It would seem from interviews so far that Powell wants to create a good passing team who look after the ball.
Therefore i would suggest that Racon starts more often. And Ecclestone.
As Racon and Ecclestone strike me as our most comfortable players when on the ball. They like to get it down and pass .
Semedo is one of my favourite players but when in possession he seems to panic and play the long ball.
Anyinsah does so much for the side he really needs more time in our first team as he can hurt teams. His experience in this division is evident and he will put away chances as well as set up a few for BWP.
Dailly and Doc are alright, i know some will disagree but they win so much in the air and are quite solid overall.
In the long term we need a few serious contenders for the CB spot but for now i have no qualms.
Regardless of owners' money I honestly think this season is our best chance of going up - there's going to be a lot of change next season regardless but it could see us being stuck here for a few more years if we dont go up.
Did not go and only have the view from the comfort of my armchair, so unlike the home game have a limited perspective of the game, as being there always has the advantage, but it is hard to disagree with the above posting.
I thought we could have lost the home tie, and although we had plenty of chances in this away leg,was dissapointed.
I simply do not buy this nonsense about the pitch, yes it was poor, get on with it!
At times Notts County simply were stronger than us, and made up for our 'flair' with determination.
People are saying that we played better first half, well not in the first 25 minutes! twice the ball rolled across the goal mouth, so sorry just do not buy this we were the better team!
The curse of Charlton and tv goes on!...... not the worst performance but the last week may well be the defining week of the season.
Is Docherty able to clear a ball without just kicking it up in the air like a rugby player at the rectory field!...... kick and run mate, kick and run!...... with those conditions you should be at home in Charlton Park on a Sunday morning!
I'm hoping we might finally find some form which will put us in good shape to have a go in the play offs. But we're far too inconsistent to do anything else.
The current squad is what it is, the question is whether as a club we should be putting out a team that usually sees off the likes of Notts County, Hartlepool, Exeter and all the other corner-shop clubs that make up the majority of this division. Of course we should, even on our current playing budget. That's not meant to be disrespectful. The difference in scale between these clubs and Charlton is enormous.
However, I am not too demoralised by the last three matches because I can tell you from the inside the mood at the club has changed dramatically since the new owners and Chris Powell arrived. I still think we can get up this season and suspect that there will be some action in the next week to try to help achieve that, but whether that happens or not I don't see any significant risk of us staying in this division in the medium term.
They could do with getting their facts right...we've beaten both Orient and Luton on TV this season...