They'll be looking to merge with us and Orient in a few years time to try and fill the place. Lucky that Belvedere river crossing got the boot. It did didn't it?
[cite]Posted By: Valley_floyd_red[/cite]I still can't understand why either set of fans would want this, it's financial suicide, isn't it? I don't think the CPFC move will ever happen regardless of who gets the Olympic Stadium.
I know it would seem incredibly unlikely but one conspiracy theory is that spurs were in cahoots here to try and lever their planners and at the same time making west ham fans want to win it just by getting one over on spurs. highly unlikely but wouldn't rule it out. I'm sure the golds and sullivan have sold stranger ideas in their time.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Saga Lout[/cite]Not good news for us if true. Only way West Ham will fill that is to offer cheap tickets and other special offers. If they're offering tickets for games in a higher league than us for less than us, it will attract people away from the Valley. Unless, of course we are playing in a higher league than them by then.[/quote]
Wrong. It will be the death of west ham.
.[/quote]
So the unlucky winner is west Ham then?
A lot of the money is coming from Newham council (£40m) and various other grants - including I think £35m from the original Olympic fund. West Ham will be able to sell Upton Park so that provides some revenue. In all while it'll stretch them financially they'll be getting a 60K stadium relatively cheaply, plus it'll have good car-parking and travel infrastructure and is in the middle of a large residential area, with major roads nearby. They can't expand Upton Park and will have to move sooner or later and the opportunity to get a prime site like this is a one in a million thing.
[cite]Posted By: Saga Lout[/cite]Not good news for us if true. Only way West Ham will fill that is to offer cheap tickets and other special offers. If they're offering tickets for games in a higher league than us for less than us, it will attract people away from the Valley. Unless, of course we are playing in a higher league than them by then.
Wrong. It will be the death of west ham.
.
So the unlucky winner is west Ham then?
A lot of the money is coming from Newham council (£40m) and various other grants - including I think £35m from the original Olympic fund. West Ham will be able to sell Upton Park so that provides some revenue. In all while it'll stretch them financially they'll be getting a 60K stadium relatively cheaply, plus it'll have good car-parking and travel infrastructure and is in the middle of a large residential area, with major roads nearby. They can't expand Upton Park and will have to move sooner or later and the opportunity to get a prime site like this is a one in a million thing.
I don't think Newham council is giving them £40m rather they have underwritten the deal of a cheap loan from the treasury. So in other words you and me are handing over £40m of taxpayers money to a very poorly run commercial organisation to help it to purchase something we've already paid for at a knock down price. In the meantime, Newham council is looking to get rid of 25% of it's staff, presumably though not those that worked on this deal as the mayor rather enjoys the hosptiality the Hammers throw at him apparently. You couldn't make it up.
[cite]Posted By: Friend Or Defoe[/cite]They could easier expand Upton Park by knocking down the chicken run, the move is done soley to line the two Dave's pockets.
Surely the "rent a fan" atmosphere will put the hardcore support off going even more if every Tarquin and Gemima from Docklands start venturing down to Stratford or the other locals who dont already follow the club start going because its a couple of miles nearer to their armchair than before.
I know it diluted the atmosphere and genuine support for me when we were in the prem and the numerous Johnny- leave- when- we- go- downs made up the numbers.
Sullivan & Gold believe West Ham United could eventually follow the example of Arsenal at the Emirates. To have the belief they will be the big club. Dreaming of being amongst the elite of English football with 60,000 plus crowds - playing European football at the Olympic stadium. Yeah Sure!
The venture can either be succesful - Other clubs will suffer - most notably Orient or Unsuccesful - West Ham will suffer. and other clubs as they massively discount prices. I think this is scandelous- just because the West Ham bid is better than the Spurs one - which insults the intelligence- both are well outside the vision sold to tax payers and the Olympic comittee.
It is a brillaint space - which will have excellent transport links- think of the many events that could be held there. West Ham can't fill their ground so why do they need to move - It's ridiculous.
If west ham get relegated, which is looking likely, I'm not sure how they will recover to ever move into the Olympic Stadium?
I don't get all this discounted tickets thing either. They can sell them for a fiver if they wish, it still means they'll be losing money. To run a stadium of that size costs a fortune and cheap ticket sales and championship/lower prem football won't cover the costs.
It's all very well dissing West Ham but it must be remembered that they won us the World Cup, they love their Mums and only hurt their own.......<Yawn>
Chirpy you said a few hours ago that Gold couldn't name the 3 players who had a statue outside the ground. TBF Gold has never supported W Ham he hails from Caterham and if he "supports" anyone it's Palace.
It's Sullivan who is the W Ham supporter (allegedly).
Hammers cannot fill Upton Park at the moment. They are advertising on Talksport to sell tickets, so much for the team that won the World Cup. I think they will stuggle to get close to capatcity unless they play Manure or The Arse every week.
Of course that will be compounded if they get relegated this season and spend a couple of years in the Championship or worse....
The traditional West Ham fan will hate the stadium, the distance from the pitch, the lack of atmosphere and the plastics who might be tempted to turn up for the opening matches. They will stay away in droves, especially if they are playing the likes of Barnsley or Scunthorpe in the Championship. Sullivan, Gold & Brady will have to sell up as soon as they can make a profit and it will leave the fans in a stadium they don't want. The fans seem to be half-asleep. If it was a new board at Charlton trying to hijack the club and move it, there would be demos and campaigns to stay at the Valley all over the place.
Barry Hearn needs to get as much compensation as he can, improve Brisbane Road, and advertise his club as "Proper Football in a Proper football ground". He might attract a few disillusioned punters.
[cite]Posted By: Covered End[/cite]Chirpy you said a few hours ago that Gold couldn't name the 3 players who had a statue outside the ground. TBF Gold has never supported W Ham he hails from Caterham and if he "supports" anyone it's Palace.
It's Sullivan who is the W Ham supporter (allegedly).
No,no, no CE. He states, whenever he can, that he is from The East End, supported WHU as a boy and always has. He also said something about playing for their youth team when he was young!
Sullivan is Welsh!
Ha, Ha. Loved the mock picture showing the seats close to the pitch. Where was the running track? They're trying very hard aren't they? Bordering on desperate. Clever propaganda.
Thats exactly what i thought when i saw the picture. If that's anything to go by, our cinder track will be wider than their running track. :-)
Right, just to clarify my earlier post and answer a couple of questions.
Spurs will fill that place with Spurs fans without money-off offers to attract new fans away from other clubs, West Ham struggle to fill their current ground as it is, so they will have to attract people from somewhere, so will come into out area (and Milwall's) offering cheap deals.
Sparrows Lane Lion, get real - all clubs have people that come and go - turn up for the good times and maybe go to other grounds at other times. We should all be worried about the effect on our gates if West Ham make the move and throw cheap tickets about to get the punters in.
Saga - I still don't think they'll do that much marketing south of the Thames/north Kent. The olympic stadium is close-ish to the A11 which goes north-east to the M25 and therefore into Herts/Essex and out towards Norwich. That is where I'd aim most of my marketing - there are no clubs nearby and the A11 offers potential punters a relatively easy drive to/from the ground. Persuading south Londoners means getting them to navigate their way around the M25/Dartford crossing or the Blackwall tunnel, neither are really easy routes, especially for mid-week matches and those routes can also be busy off peak as well.
[cite]Posted By: Saga Lout[/cite]Spurs will fill that place with Spurs fans without money-off offers to attract new fans away from other clubs, West Ham struggle to fill their current ground as it is, so they will have to attract people from somewhere, so will come into out area (and Milwall's) offering cheap deals.
SL, the population of London and its metropolitan area is, according to the GLA 18,000,000. If you add up the home gates of all London league teams (plus D&R and Gillingham) its about 275,000. Add to that those fans of clubs outside London who travel regularly to see their team, I'd guess to be 50,000, the maximum number of people who actually watch football in stadia on any Saturday who live in the metropolitan area is around 325,000. That's less than 2%. Frankly the challenge for clubs like ours is how we attract the huge number of people who live close to our ground and chose to sit at home. This has always been the issue.
There have always been more attractive teams in relatively easy reach of our area. I can't see the attraction of West Ham and the OS, is really going to have any significant impact.
[cite]Posted By: Saga Lout[/cite]Spurs will fill that place with Spurs fans without money-off offers to attract new fans away from other clubs, West Ham struggle to fill their current ground as it is, so they will have to attract people from somewhere, so will come into out area (and Milwall's) offering cheap deals.
SL, the population of London and its metropolitan area is, according to the GLA 18,000,000. If you add up the home gates of all London league teams (plus D&R and Gillingham) its about 275,000. Add to that those fans of clubs outside London who travel regularly to see their team, I'd guess to be 50,000, the maximum number of people who actually watch football in stadia on any Saturday who live in the metropolitan area is around 325,000. That's less than 2%. Frankly the challenge for clubs like ours is how we attract the huge number of people who live close to our ground and chose to sit at home. This has always been the issue.
There have always been more attractive teams in relatively easy reach of our area. I can't see the attraction of West Ham and the OS, is really going to have any significant impact.
Cannot see West Ham filling Upton Park next season, even if they do escape relegation!.
Therefore the need to expand Upton Park further seems uncalled for!, and the move seems to be for the vanity of the board!
I saw them against Fulham earlier this year, and there was quite a bit of room, and my West Ham friend say's it is rarely full!
Why assume that there fan's are local, when I walked from the supermarket car park the immediate area seemed very ethnic!, not reflected in the ground!
Plenty of West ham supporters around Bexley, and remember the Hammers had a shop at Bluewater, so they regard it as there 'market'!.
Dartford Toll, say they include a match day pass for the toll in a season ticket!( my mate had a credit card type season ticket!) and chuck in free parking!,( free bus to the stadium) two kids free with two season ticket holders, add a programme!. Then peg the price to the championship levels for say two years.........
Last night Slater claimed that we had to get the missing 7,000 lapsed season ticket holders back, and 'improve the match day experience', we need to not take former fans for granted, and start assuming they will return to Charlton!. I am not saying that bus loads of fans will be converted to be 'Hammers'. And it starts with getting to a higher league........... like yesterday!
It's gonna bankrupt 'em. They're already in the doggy doo financially and they're adding another £40m to that debt. They better start praying they can stay in the premier league.
[cite]Posted By: Valley McMoist[/cite]It's gonna bankrupt 'em. They're already in the doggy doo financially and they're adding another £40m to that debt. They better start praying they can stay in the premier league.
Aren't they going to be able to sell The Boleyn Ground though?
[cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]Last night Slater claimed that we had to get the missing 7,000 lapsed season ticket holders back, and 'improve the match day experience', we need to not take former fans for granted, and start assuming they will return to Charlton!. I am not saying that bus loads of fans will be converted to be 'Hammers'. And it starts with getting to a higher league........... like yesterday!
I am not saying we take them for granted but seriously Ken, are you suggesting that more than a handful of lapsed season ticket holders are going to suddenly start supporting the Hamsters?
As I understand it, the prime driving force behind The Valley Express was to re-connect with fans who stopped coming. After all the wilderness years and the lack of success, we were still able to re-start their active involvement again.
Anyway they will either make a go of it and target traditional Addick areas or they wont. Its entirely academic because there ain't anything in the slightest that we can do about what they chose to do. What we can do is what Slater is talking about, namely make coming to the Valley a positive experience again plus utilise our already extensive local community programme so that local people feel that our is their club.
[cite]Posted By: Valley McMoist[/cite]It's gonna bankrupt 'em. They're already in the doggy doo financially and they're adding another £40m to that debt. They better start praying they can stay in the premier league.
There wont be anything like a £40 million debt when they sell the Boleyn ground for development. Do you seriously think those 2 aint done the sums. They will move west ham into there get or keep them in the prem then sell the club. It will be an attractive buy for a rich Arab to have a team in the prem playing at the Olympic stadium. This has been there plan before they ever took over at West Ham so they know exactly what they are doing.
Sparrows Lane Lion, get real - all clubs have people that come and go - turn up for the good times and maybe go to other grounds at other times. We should all be worried about the effect on our gates if West Ham make the move and throw cheap tickets about to get the punters in.
I'll get real and safely tell you right now that not a single Millwall fan will start going to support west ham.
You've got your hardcore 16k. Then you've got that additional 10k that were coming regularly in the Prem & Championship. I'm guessing that a good 80% of that 10k+ are Charlton fans and wouldn't run over the river to watch west ham if they start offering cheap tickets. Once you get promoted those fans will come back to the valley, they won't be going to stratford.
[cite]Posted By: Badger[/cite]What i would like to know is if either Tottenham or West Ham move into the stadium how much will they be paying for the stadium?
Surelt it's not going to given away for FREE.
From what i can gather they are getting a £35m grant for moving in there.
Comments
I know it would seem incredibly unlikely but one conspiracy theory is that spurs were in cahoots here to try and lever their planners and at the same time making west ham fans want to win it just by getting one over on spurs. highly unlikely but wouldn't rule it out. I'm sure the golds and sullivan have sold stranger ideas in their time.
Wrong. It will be the death of west ham.
.[/quote]
So the unlucky winner is west Ham then?
A lot of the money is coming from Newham council (£40m) and various other grants - including I think £35m from the original Olympic fund. West Ham will be able to sell Upton Park so that provides some revenue. In all while it'll stretch them financially they'll be getting a 60K stadium relatively cheaply, plus it'll have good car-parking and travel infrastructure and is in the middle of a large residential area, with major roads nearby. They can't expand Upton Park and will have to move sooner or later and the opportunity to get a prime site like this is a one in a million thing.
I don't think Newham council is giving them £40m rather they have underwritten the deal of a cheap loan from the treasury. So in other words you and me are handing over £40m of taxpayers money to a very poorly run commercial organisation to help it to purchase something we've already paid for at a knock down price. In the meantime, Newham council is looking to get rid of 25% of it's staff, presumably though not those that worked on this deal as the mayor rather enjoys the hosptiality the Hammers throw at him apparently. You couldn't make it up.
yup
I know it diluted the atmosphere and genuine support for me when we were in the prem and the numerous Johnny- leave- when- we- go- downs made up the numbers.
It is a brillaint space - which will have excellent transport links- think of the many events that could be held there. West Ham can't fill their ground so why do they need to move - It's ridiculous.
I don't get all this discounted tickets thing either. They can sell them for a fiver if they wish, it still means they'll be losing money. To run a stadium of that size costs a fortune and cheap ticket sales and championship/lower prem football won't cover the costs.
It's Sullivan who is the W Ham supporter (allegedly).
Of course that will be compounded if they get relegated this season and spend a couple of years in the Championship or worse....
Barry Hearn needs to get as much compensation as he can, improve Brisbane Road, and advertise his club as "Proper Football in a Proper football ground". He might attract a few disillusioned punters.
No,no, no CE. He states, whenever he can, that he is from The East End, supported WHU as a boy and always has. He also said something about playing for their youth team when he was young!
Sullivan is Welsh!
Ha, Ha. Loved the mock picture showing the seats close to the pitch. Where was the running track? They're trying very hard aren't they? Bordering on desperate. Clever propaganda.
Thats exactly what i thought when i saw the picture. If that's anything to go by, our cinder track will be wider than their running track. :-)
Spurs will fill that place with Spurs fans without money-off offers to attract new fans away from other clubs, West Ham struggle to fill their current ground as it is, so they will have to attract people from somewhere, so will come into out area (and Milwall's) offering cheap deals.
Sparrows Lane Lion, get real - all clubs have people that come and go - turn up for the good times and maybe go to other grounds at other times. We should all be worried about the effect on our gates if West Ham make the move and throw cheap tickets about to get the punters in.
SL, the population of London and its metropolitan area is, according to the GLA 18,000,000. If you add up the home gates of all London league teams (plus D&R and Gillingham) its about 275,000. Add to that those fans of clubs outside London who travel regularly to see their team, I'd guess to be 50,000, the maximum number of people who actually watch football in stadia on any Saturday who live in the metropolitan area is around 325,000. That's less than 2%. Frankly the challenge for clubs like ours is how we attract the huge number of people who live close to our ground and chose to sit at home. This has always been the issue.
There have always been more attractive teams in relatively easy reach of our area. I can't see the attraction of West Ham and the OS, is really going to have any significant impact.
Cannot see West Ham filling Upton Park next season, even if they do escape relegation!.
Therefore the need to expand Upton Park further seems uncalled for!, and the move seems to be for the vanity of the board!
I saw them against Fulham earlier this year, and there was quite a bit of room, and my West Ham friend say's it is rarely full!
Why assume that there fan's are local, when I walked from the supermarket car park the immediate area seemed very ethnic!, not reflected in the ground!
Plenty of West ham supporters around Bexley, and remember the Hammers had a shop at Bluewater, so they regard it as there 'market'!.
Dartford Toll, say they include a match day pass for the toll in a season ticket!( my mate had a credit card type season ticket!) and chuck in free parking!,( free bus to the stadium) two kids free with two season ticket holders, add a programme!. Then peg the price to the championship levels for say two years.........
Last night Slater claimed that we had to get the missing 7,000 lapsed season ticket holders back, and 'improve the match day experience', we need to not take former fans for granted, and start assuming they will return to Charlton!. I am not saying that bus loads of fans will be converted to be 'Hammers'. And it starts with getting to a higher league........... like yesterday!
Aren't they going to be able to sell The Boleyn Ground though?
I am not saying we take them for granted but seriously Ken, are you suggesting that more than a handful of lapsed season ticket holders are going to suddenly start supporting the Hamsters?
As I understand it, the prime driving force behind The Valley Express was to re-connect with fans who stopped coming. After all the wilderness years and the lack of success, we were still able to re-start their active involvement again.
Anyway they will either make a go of it and target traditional Addick areas or they wont. Its entirely academic because there ain't anything in the slightest that we can do about what they chose to do. What we can do is what Slater is talking about, namely make coming to the Valley a positive experience again plus utilise our already extensive local community programme so that local people feel that our is their club.
There wont be anything like a £40 million debt when they sell the Boleyn ground for development. Do you seriously think those 2 aint done the sums. They will move west ham into there get or keep them in the prem then sell the club. It will be an attractive buy for a rich Arab to have a team in the prem playing at the Olympic stadium. This has been there plan before they ever took over at West Ham so they know exactly what they are doing.
I'll get real and safely tell you right now that not a single Millwall fan will start going to support west ham.
You've got your hardcore 16k. Then you've got that additional 10k that were coming regularly in the Prem & Championship. I'm guessing that a good 80% of that 10k+ are Charlton fans and wouldn't run over the river to watch west ham if they start offering cheap tickets. Once you get promoted those fans will come back to the valley, they won't be going to stratford.
Surelt it's not going to given away for FREE.
From what i can gather they are getting a £35m grant for moving in there.