Ideally - automatic promotion but Southampton & Brighton are going to be tough to catch & I fear Sheffield Wednesday most out of the surrounding pack.
Realistically - play-off final at least via a strong run from late January onwards.
Anything less has to be a failure in the context of Parky's dismissal, as he has already done well to establish us a competitive upper-echelons L1 side in the same vein as Rodder's says as your Bournemouths, Brentfords, Peterboroughs & Hartlepools.
Whoever comes in will need to make significant changes in the style of football that we play and it may just tale a while to make those adjustments and to impose his style on the existing and new players. On that basis alone I am expecting no better than a play off spot. I won't be too disappointed if along the way I see that The team is playing football and not the hoofball we have been watching. Going to The Valley has become a chore and if that changes also then I will class that as a success. If it takes another season for the plan to come to fruition but I can see things being built and improved then I will be very happy. Watching Charlton for about four years now has been a horrible experience and the most important thing for me is that I get my Charlton mojo back.
Having sacked Parky when we did i rekon Slater & co would prefer promotion this season rather than next. Although the complete rebuilding idea for promotion next season is interesting.
Obviously finishing in the top 6 and promotion via the play offs is the very least expected - same as if Parky was still here.
However, our chances of an automatic spot depend not just on our own form, but also that of the 2 teams above us.
If they hit outstanding runs, then they will take some catching.
But if they jog along and just repeat their 1st half of the season form, then no reason why a consistant winning run from Charlton can't secure 2nd place.
But it's all conjecture. The incoming new manager will hold the key.
If we don't make the Play Offs then the sacking of Parkinson will look like a calamitous mistake.
No matter how much people slag him off he left us three points from second place, if the new manager doesn't at least improve on that then serious questions will have to be asked about the wisdom of the decision.
If the new man gets us promotion then you can't argue with the sacking but anything less than that will be a failure.
People saw Parkinson's inability to win promotion last season was seen as a failure by most of his critics, there is no reason why the new manager should not be judged by the same standards. That's only fair.
If we don't make the Play Offs then the sacking of Parkinson will look like a calamitous mistake.
No matter how much people slag him off he left us three points from second place, if the new manager doesn't at least improve on that then serious questions will have to be asked about the wisdom of the decision.
If the new man gets us promotion then you can't argue with the sacking but anything less than that will be a failure.
People saw Parkinson's inability to win promotion last season was seen as a failure by most of his critics, there is no reason why the new manager should not be judged by the same standards. That's only fair.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]
If the new man gets us promotion then you can't argue with the sacking but anything less than that will be a failure.
One needs to examine if the new owners thought that Parky was going to keep us in the top six. The last two home games made me question it. If that's the case then 6th might be acceptable, especially if the team are playing better by the end of the season.
When Slater was interviewed he seemed like he wasn't getting carried away, so I would assume that he's being realistic and sees promotion via the play-offs as achievable. Brighton are a class act in this division and it'll take a lot to get above them and Southampton.
That's the problem, it's a tough league this year. Sheff Wed and Huddersfield are strong squads with good managers who could also have a legit claim on an automatic spot. All depends on the resources that the new manager has at their disposal, really. If he has a 3M war chest then automatics should be achievable. If it's he's got enough to pay a nominal fee for a player not on a huge wage, then keeping us where we are is probably OK. Too many variables.
Brighton have had a bad run, drawing and losing a few, we just never capitalised on it. Southampton had a pretty poor start to the season and we didn’t do enough to create a gap between us and them. If you watch the games week in, week out you’ll know that this league is so poor there really is no reason why a well disciplined, organised team which has been set up right way can’t go on a 12-15 game run and really compete with those two. At times this season we have competed with them, we just haven’t had the consistency to do so. That’s what I’d really love, a manager who makes us consistent. There have been games and small runs this season (well, Peterborough away) when we have looked so good, but we just never carry it on long enough to really make it count. I believe that despite how poor we are, there are 11 players in our squad who are good enough to beat most teams in League One because bar four or five teams, this league is utter, utter dross and there for the taking.
To answer the initial question, surely promotion is the only benchmark ? In one of the stat’s threads that we have it says something like Parkinson averaged 1.6 points a game, which was enough to gain a play-off place last season and would likely be enough to gain one this season. So therefore if the worst Parkinson could do was failure in the playoffs this year, then surely a new manager must be required to better his predecessors lowest realistic expectation, therefore success in the playoffs is what is required to do so ?
The target is not to be in this league, next season (I mean going up and not into league 2). What do you think the true attendance figure would be next season if we don't go up?
If it cost £7m this season, how much more for another season?
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]That's the problem, it's a tough league this year. Sheff Wed and Huddersfield are strong squads with good managers who could also have a legit claim on an automatic spot. All depends on the resources that the new manager has at their disposal, really. If he has a 3M war chest then automatics should be achievable. If it's he's got enough to pay a nominal fee for a player not on a huge wage, then keeping us where we are is probably OK. Too many variables.
Wait a minute, I thought it was a tough league last season. I thought we were all particularly relieved that we wouldn't have Leeds and Milwall in the same division this year - surely this is an easier division to get out of now?
[cite]Posted By: se9addick[/cite]If you watch the games week in, week out you’ll know that this league is so poor there really is no reason why a well disciplined, organised team which has been set up right way can’t go on a 12-15 game run and really compete with those two.
Last season started off with Leeds and Charlton well out in front.
Then Norwich got their act together with a very good run, resulting in them closing the gap - and going top.
They wobbled a bit towards the season's end - but had done more than enough with their previously consistant form.
In comparison, Leeds' form fell away alarmingly from January onwards; they were ultimately fortunate in scraping promotion courtesy of the cushion provided by their stunning start to the season.
Swindon were dithering around outside the playoff positions around Christmas, then they showed generally superb consistancy to get themselves a playoff Final spot. But for, perhaps, Llera's injury time equaliser for 9-man Charlton at The Valley versus Swindon, they would have finished in second place?
And as for Millwall ..... at the time we won at home to Hartlepool in mid-January, Millwall were something like
18 points behind us. They got their run going, and had caught us up by Easter and finished 3rd, finally promoted via the playoffs.
Brighton have had a bad run, drawing and losing a few, we just never capitalised on it. Southampton had a pretty poor start to the season and we didn’t do enough to create a gap between us and them. If you watch the games week in, week out you’ll know that this league is so poor there really is no reason why a well disciplined, organised team which has been set up right way can’t go on a 12-15 game run and really compete with those two. At times this season we have competed with them, we just haven’t had the consistency to do so. That’s what I’d really love, a manager who makes us consistent. There have been games and small runs this season (well, Peterborough away) when we have looked so good, but we just never carry it on long enough to really make it count. I believe that despite how poor we are, there are 11 players in our squad who are good enough to beat most teams in League One because bar four or five teams, this league is utter, utter dross and there for the taking.
To answer the initial question, surely promotion is the only benchmark ? In one of the stat’s threads that we have it says something like Parkinson averaged 1.6 points a game, which was enough to gain a play-off place last season and would likely be enough to gain one this season. So therefore if the worst Parkinson could do was failure in the playoffs this year, then surely a new manager must be required to better his predecessors lowest realistic expectation, therefore success in the playoffs is what is required to do so ?
Yes, but that average has been falling in recent weeks. Rather like it fell away last season. If you could guarantee that Parky's average would not fall below 1.6 points for the rest of the season then ok, but when you consider that we have averaged 0.5 in the last five matches, three at home and two against ten men for over a half, you have to consider the possibility that the board doubted Parky getting into the playoffs.
If that's the case they mightn't have sacked him to guarantee top two, but to prevent 7th or lower.
I suspect that they still harbour hopes of the top two, but I, for one, think that is very unlikely now. The playoffs are very achievable, but to win them always requires an element of luck, and you can't legislate for that.
[cite]Posted By: kings hill addick[/cite]
Yes, but that average has been falling in recent weeks. Rather like it fell away last season. If you could guarantee that Parky's average would not fall below 1.6 points for the rest of the season then ok, but when you consider that we have averaged 0.5 in the last five matches, three at home and two against ten men for over a half, you have to consider the possibility that the board doubted Parky getting into the playoffs.
If that's the case they mightn't have sacked him to guarantee top two, but to prevent 7th or lower.
I suspect that they still harbour hopes of the top two, but I, for one, think that is very unlikely now. The playoffs are very achievable, but to win them always requires an element of luck, and you can't legislate for that.
But surely if you were to make a decision as serious as terminating a mans employment you'd look at stats which cover more than 5 games, perhaps, say, 70 games - surely that's a greater indication of what he's capable of ? I'm not saying the last few games have been great, but I'm sure I could find five game spells where we managed way over 1.6 points per game but the fact is that in 70 games in this division that's what he managed and there is no reason to suggest he would have achieved any less in the reamaining games this season. Therefore the new boss must achieve more than the man who lost his job in order to be a good move ?
There is evidence that he will achieve less. The fact that he had Bailey, Shelvey, Lloyd Sam, Burton and Randolph last season should be sufficient to confirm that he will not be able to achieve the same this season as last. For that reason you probably need to ignore last season's points average.
As fir taking just five games, you're right five games do not makena decent sample, but the most recent five games are more indicative that the five before that, and so on. Also, the performances have been getting worse. We have won just two games by more than one goal in the league all season, and at least three of our wins were very lucky. Our run of eleven games unabated, which won him the manager of the month award included six cup games, five of which re whimsy lower league opposition.
I'm happy for you to disagree with me, but I think that it is likely that if we'd carried on as we were we would have missed out on the playoffs, so if we make it then I will consider that a success by the new manager.
parky had 28 games to keep us up in the championship he managed 23 points
pardew had gotten 16 points from 18 games
we were worse under parkinson FACT
our first season in the championship under pardews stewardship we lost on new years day to colchester(the lisbie brace) and at that stage we had just taken 3 points from the previous 5 games
and if you dared question that you thought pardew wasn't up to it , the same rose tinted/apologists as ever would hit you with the "we're still 5th" stick, which we were after this match,
we finished that season 11th six points from the play offs
so maybe we should have changed management when we were 5th in the championship when it was clear to us, who don't wear rose tinted, that things weren't right
play offs minimum for me as long as we don't sell(lol) anyone
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Tranmere, Dagenham, Plymouth, Bristol Rovers .......off the top of my head are all games we should have won.
Maybe others too.
We had enough decent chances in each of those games, and outplayed opponents for long periods.
When we sacked Parky we were 5th...we haven't played since and are now 6th and 6 points from auto's and 5 behind Huddersfield & Bournemouth. By the time we get a new manager in we could be out of the play offs! Does this mean people will then expect less from the new manager.
[cite]Posted By: valleyman[/cite]When we sacked Parky we were 5th...we haven't played since and are now 6th and 6 points from auto's and 5 behind Huddersfield & Bournemouth. By the time we get a new manager in we could be out of the play offs! Does this mean people will then expect less from the new manager.
nope it was the reason sacking him was correct our postion was false
Interesting how your perspective can change with circumstances ... I was firmly in the camp that a new manager must achieve automatic promotion this season ... however .... if (please) ... it is Chrissy Powell then next season is fine :-)
Not particularly logical from me I know, but obviously I'm prepared to give Chriisy more time to get things sorted than anyone else.
And if we take that view point it might make promotion this season more likely as the players will feel less pressure. I persona;;y believe that if we can keep Anyinsah fit we will probably get promotion and as I undertsand that we beat championship clubs to Ecclestone's signature and he has pace- I can see how we can be much mor eof a threat going forwards. I think it is a great opportunity for Chrissy and us and anu other appointment would disapoint me now.
Comments
Realistically - play-off final at least via a strong run from late January onwards.
Anything less has to be a failure in the context of Parky's dismissal, as he has already done well to establish us a competitive upper-echelons L1 side in the same vein as Rodder's says as your Bournemouths, Brentfords, Peterboroughs & Hartlepools.
Having sacked Parky when we did i rekon Slater & co would prefer promotion this season rather than next. Although the complete rebuilding idea for promotion next season is interesting.
However, our chances of an automatic spot depend not just on our own form, but also that of the 2 teams above us.
If they hit outstanding runs, then they will take some catching.
But if they jog along and just repeat their 1st half of the season form, then no reason why a consistant winning run from Charlton can't secure 2nd place.
But it's all conjecture. The incoming new manager will hold the key.
No matter how much people slag him off he left us three points from second place, if the new manager doesn't at least improve on that then serious questions will have to be asked about the wisdom of the decision.
If the new man gets us promotion then you can't argue with the sacking but anything less than that will be a failure.
People saw Parkinson's inability to win promotion last season was seen as a failure by most of his critics, there is no reason why the new manager should not be judged by the same standards. That's only fair.
No matter how much people slag him off he left us three points from second place, if the new manager doesn't at least improve on that then serious questions will have to be asked about the wisdom of the decision.
If the new man gets us promotion then you can't argue with the sacking but anything less than that will be a failure.
People saw Parkinson's inability to win promotion last season was seen as a failure by most of his critics, there is no reason why the new manager should not be judged by the same standards. That's only fair.
Agreed, Ormy.
Brighton have had a bad run, drawing and losing a few, we just never capitalised on it. Southampton had a pretty poor start to the season and we didn’t do enough to create a gap between us and them. If you watch the games week in, week out you’ll know that this league is so poor there really is no reason why a well disciplined, organised team which has been set up right way can’t go on a 12-15 game run and really compete with those two. At times this season we have competed with them, we just haven’t had the consistency to do so. That’s what I’d really love, a manager who makes us consistent. There have been games and small runs this season (well, Peterborough away) when we have looked so good, but we just never carry it on long enough to really make it count. I believe that despite how poor we are, there are 11 players in our squad who are good enough to beat most teams in League One because bar four or five teams, this league is utter, utter dross and there for the taking.
To answer the initial question, surely promotion is the only benchmark ? In one of the stat’s threads that we have it says something like Parkinson averaged 1.6 points a game, which was enough to gain a play-off place last season and would likely be enough to gain one this season. So therefore if the worst Parkinson could do was failure in the playoffs this year, then surely a new manager must be required to better his predecessors lowest realistic expectation, therefore success in the playoffs is what is required to do so ?
If it cost £7m this season, how much more for another season?
Wait a minute, I thought it was a tough league last season. I thought we were all particularly relieved that we wouldn't have Leeds and Milwall in the same division this year - surely this is an easier division to get out of now?
Agreed!
Last season started off with Leeds and Charlton well out in front.
Then Norwich got their act together with a very good run, resulting in them closing the gap - and going top.
They wobbled a bit towards the season's end - but had done more than enough with their previously consistant form.
In comparison, Leeds' form fell away alarmingly from January onwards; they were ultimately fortunate in scraping promotion courtesy of the cushion provided by their stunning start to the season.
Swindon were dithering around outside the playoff positions around Christmas, then they showed generally superb consistancy to get themselves a playoff Final spot. But for, perhaps, Llera's injury time equaliser for 9-man Charlton at The Valley versus Swindon, they would have finished in second place?
And as for Millwall ..... at the time we won at home to Hartlepool in mid-January, Millwall were something like
18 points behind us. They got their run going, and had caught us up by Easter and finished 3rd, finally promoted via the playoffs.
So it is all about consistancy.
Yes, but that average has been falling in recent weeks. Rather like it fell away last season. If you could guarantee that Parky's average would not fall below 1.6 points for the rest of the season then ok, but when you consider that we have averaged 0.5 in the last five matches, three at home and two against ten men for over a half, you have to consider the possibility that the board doubted Parky getting into the playoffs.
If that's the case they mightn't have sacked him to guarantee top two, but to prevent 7th or lower.
I suspect that they still harbour hopes of the top two, but I, for one, think that is very unlikely now. The playoffs are very achievable, but to win them always requires an element of luck, and you can't legislate for that.
But surely if you were to make a decision as serious as terminating a mans employment you'd look at stats which cover more than 5 games, perhaps, say, 70 games - surely that's a greater indication of what he's capable of ? I'm not saying the last few games have been great, but I'm sure I could find five game spells where we managed way over 1.6 points per game but the fact is that in 70 games in this division that's what he managed and there is no reason to suggest he would have achieved any less in the reamaining games this season. Therefore the new boss must achieve more than the man who lost his job in order to be a good move ?
As fir taking just five games, you're right five games do not makena decent sample, but the most recent five games are more indicative that the five before that, and so on. Also, the performances have been getting worse. We have won just two games by more than one goal in the league all season, and at least three of our wins were very lucky. Our run of eleven games unabated, which won him the manager of the month award included six cup games, five of which re whimsy lower league opposition.
I'm happy for you to disagree with me, but I think that it is likely that if we'd carried on as we were we would have missed out on the playoffs, so if we make it then I will consider that a success by the new manager.
pardew had gotten 16 points from 18 games
we were worse under parkinson FACT
our first season in the championship under pardews stewardship we lost on new years day to colchester(the lisbie brace) and at that stage we had just taken 3 points from the previous 5 games
and if you dared question that you thought pardew wasn't up to it , the same rose tinted/apologists as ever would hit you with the "we're still 5th" stick, which we were after this match,
we finished that season 11th six points from the play offs
so maybe we should have changed management when we were 5th in the championship when it was clear to us, who don't wear rose tinted, that things weren't right
play offs minimum for me as long as we don't sell(lol) anyone
By the same token, several of our draws were very unlucky not to be wins.
Or doesn't that count?
It does count, I just can't remember us failing to win a game we really deserved to.
Maybe others too.
We had enough decent chances in each of those games, and outplayed opponents for long periods.
nope it was the reason sacking him was correct our postion was false
Not particularly logical from me I know, but obviously I'm prepared to give Chriisy more time to get things sorted than anyone else.