If we 're going to focus on specifics... you'll find that I said "Money spent on a SUCCESSFUL pro-active approach would be repaid in spades". That would discount any efforts made by Seymour-Pierce, Rothschilds etc, would it not? To my knowledge, they have not been successful to date.
.
In the sense that they have not resulted in a takeover then not but marketing wallahs would say that marketing is about raising awareness and stimulating interest not closing sales.
But no they have not been successful but how can we guarantee that any other pro-active approach that you urge the club to take would be successful?
What policy do you suggest the Club spend money on that would be 100% successful?
Obviously nothing can be guaranteed to be 100% successful. I don't think I'd asked for that.
In the grand scheme of things and within an overall long-term strategy, I believe that it should be our top priority to make pro-active approaches to key investment groups. If not, and for all the good work that Richard Murray and others have done in recent and former times, our slow death will simply continue. Unless, of course, one of our many 'hopes' finally pays off.
So, I would start with a list of potential target investment groups. And I don't just mean the standard 'consortia' which we hear so much about. Let's think more widely and maybe adopt the model that exists elsewhere. Corporate ownership (for example) of football clubs is not a new idea, and it can work under the right circumstances - and, if it means my Club surviving, I can live with it having an ugly commercial name.
I would develop a specification for the types of investment group that we are prepared to approach, I would gather intelligence regarding what those target groups are looking for in any potential purchase and conduct a gap analysis to allow prioritising of targets to be made. I would then develop a game plan designed to ensure that the top targets are made to feel that acquisition of the Club is something that they cannot afford to walk away from. As a Club, we have significant assets and advantages over others. These need to be emphasised and sold attractively, particularly as we approach 2012 and the Olympic transformation of the E/SE part of London reaches completion, but also in terms of the Academy and the training ground and our track record of producing good footballing talent. The stadium is a credit to earlier foresight, and its potential needs to be maximised .. and then used as another major selling point.
Any investor coming to us will be in it for the long haul. We need to show that we are geared up for the long haul too ... not just looking to break even (we wish!) by hoping that we get into the Championship next season.
There will be holes and points of detail which can be picked upon in all of the above, but it represents my simple attempt to show what needs to be done and some of the steps required. If you, or others, tell me that most of this is already happening, then I'll be delighted. Educated (again), but delighted.
One other thing occurs to me, and again this isn't intended to be ingratitude and very much a devil's advocate view
On other threads it was suggested that the Directors were willing to take a total loss if the right 'buyer' came along, why not now with RM as that buyer?
In fact, I’ll hazard a guess that the only reason that the directors' loans remain outstanding at all is that the terms of the Football League agreement that the restructuring deal should not incur the penalties of a de facto administration were that NO creditors took a hit on the amounts due to them.
In that regard, it is worth recalling that the bonds (which had an equity conversion option, originally designed to give the holders some equity-like upside) were not actually written off but were converted into shares prior to the restructuring – i.e. the bondholders ceased to be creditors when they converted the bonds to shares, of course knowing that those shares would be worthless.
So it is quite possible that, since the loans had no such equity conversion feature, to comply with the FL requirements, they could not be written off but could have their terms varied, as has been done. In any event, they are inconsequential.
If we 're going to focus on specifics... you'll find that I said "Money spent on a SUCCESSFUL pro-active approach would be repaid in spades". That would discount any efforts made by Seymour-Pierce, Rothschilds etc, would it not? To my knowledge, they have not been successful to date.
.
In the sense that they have not resulted in a takeover then not but marketing wallahs would say that marketing is about raising awareness and stimulating interest not closing sales.
But no they have not been successful but how can we guarantee that any other pro-active approach that you urge the club to take would be successful?
What policy do you suggest the Club spend money on that would be 100% successful?
Obviously nothing can be guaranteed to be 100% successful. I don't think I'd asked for that.
In the grand scheme of things and within an overall long-term strategy, I believe that it should be our top priority to make pro-active approaches to key investment groups. If not, and for all the good work that Richard Murray and others have done in recent and former times, our slow death will simply continue. Unless, of course, one of our many 'hopes' finally pays off.
So, I would start with a list of potential target investment groups. And I don't just mean the standard 'consortia' which we hear so much about. Let's think more widely and maybe adopt the model that exists elsewhere. Corporate ownership (for example) of football clubs is not a new idea, and it can work under the right circumstances - and, if it means my Club surviving, I can live with it having an ugly commercial name.
I would develop a specification for the types of investment group that we are prepared to approach, I would gather intelligence regarding what those target groups are looking for in any potential purchase and conduct a gap analysis to allow prioritising of targets to be made. I would then develop a game plan designed to ensure that the top targets are made to feel that acquisition of the Club is something that they cannot afford to walk away from. As a Club, we have significant assets and advantages over others. These need to be emphasised and sold attractively, particularly as we approach 2012 and the Olympic transformation of the E/SE part of London reaches completion, but also in terms of the Academy and the training ground and our track record of producing good footballing talent. The stadium is a credit to earlier foresight, and its potential needs to be maximised .. and then used as another major selling point.
Any investor coming to us will be in it for the long haul. We need to show that we are geared up for the long haul too ... not just looking to break even (we wish!) by hoping that we get into the Championship next season.
There will be holes and points of detail which can be picked upon in all of the above, but it represents my simple attempt to show what needs to be done and some of the steps required. If you, or others, tell me that most of this is already happening, then I'll be delighted. Educated (again), but delighted.
All sounds good to me.
The hiring of expensive agencies such as those listed and the preparation of presentations leads me to think that they have already done some of that though.
The whole re-structuing is about keeping the club going now but also making it more atractive to potential buyers. writing off huge debts is pretty pro-active IMHO.
The corporate ownership is the one I question. What's in it for them? buying a loss making company and if they spend £ms maybe getting to the Prem and coming 7th. RM mentioned the very same problem at the EGM so maybe he is thinking about these things but, you never know, just not talking about them.
If we 're going to focus on specifics... you'll find that I said "Money spent on a SUCCESSFUL pro-active approach would be repaid in spades". That would discount any efforts made by Seymour-Pierce, Rothschilds etc, would it not? To my knowledge, they have not been successful to date.
.
In the sense that they have not resulted in a takeover then not but marketing wallahs would say that marketing is about raising awareness and stimulating interest not closing sales.
But no they have not been successful but how can we guarantee that any other pro-active approach that you urge the club to take would be successful?
What policy do you suggest the Club spend money on that would be 100% successful?
Obviously nothing can be guaranteed to be 100% successful. I don't think I'd asked for that.
In the grand scheme of things and within an overall long-term strategy, I believe that it should be our top priority to make pro-active approaches to key investment groups. If not, and for all the good work that Richard Murray and others have done in recent and former times, our slow death will simply continue. Unless, of course, one of our many 'hopes' finally pays off.
So, I would start with a list of potential target investment groups. And I don't just mean the standard 'consortia' which we hear so much about. Let's think more widely and maybe adopt the model that exists elsewhere. Corporate ownership (for example) of football clubs is not a new idea, and it can work under the right circumstances - and, if it means my Club surviving, I can live with it having an ugly commercial name.
I would develop a specification for the types of investment group that we are prepared to approach, I would gather intelligence regarding what those target groups are looking for in any potential purchase and conduct a gap analysis to allow prioritising of targets to be made. I would then develop a game plan designed to ensure that the top targets are made to feel that acquisition of the Club is something that they cannot afford to walk away from. As a Club, we have significant assets and advantages over others. These need to be emphasised and sold attractively, particularly as we approach 2012 and the Olympic transformation of the E/SE part of London reaches completion, but also in terms of the Academy and the training ground and our track record of producing good footballing talent. The stadium is a credit to earlier foresight, and its potential needs to be maximised .. and then used as another major selling point.
Any investor coming to us will be in it for the long haul. We need to show that we are geared up for the long haul too ... not just looking to break even (we wish!) by hoping that we get into the Championship next season.
There will be holes and points of detail which can be picked upon in all of the above, but it represents my simple attempt to show what needs to be done and some of the steps required. If you, or others, tell me that most of this is already happening, then I'll be delighted. Educated (again), but delighted.
All sounds good to me.
The hiring of expensive agencies such as those listed and the preparation of presentations leads me to think that they have already done some of that though.
The whole re-structuing is about keeping the club going now but also making it more atractive to potential buyers. writing off huge debts is pretty pro-active IMHO.
The corporate ownership is the one I question. What's in it for them? buying a loss making company and if they spend £ms maybe getting to the Prem and coming 7th. RM mentioned the very same problem at the EGM so maybe he is thinking about these things but, you never know, just not talking about them.
I used corporate ownership as one example. You might ask the same question of any potential investor .. which is why they are hard to come by, and so precious that we need to make sure that we get one when they show willing.
But one answer is that many successful business enterprises have loss-making arms. They tolerate such things because they can add to the corporate image, and increase profitability in other areas of the business. Not exactly loss-leaders, but you get the idea. I talked about developing the specification for potential investment groups. This would be one aspect ... what kind of organisation would be prepared to lose money by owning a football club, but who might reap the rewards in other areas?
Hands up who bought a Viglen pc all those years ago?
Which is why the Community Trust has always been such a big selling point for sponsors and investors. It's on the DVDs the Suthers used to give out and/or speak to with people like Llanara and KRBS. Anyone who wants a copy let me know : - )
They get to associate themselves with all that good work. Something that the Club has been big to promote alongside the location, olympics etc when trying to sell the Club in whatever way.
Dave, I really don't think the Club is a million miles away from what you are saying it's just that I think that they are going about it in a different way, in private and within the budget they have.
Dave...you raise some good points about being pro-active and chasing investors rather than reactively waiting for them to knock on our door.
I presume the reason why several groups have been retained over the last few years is to do exactly that - and the likes of Rothschilds have better connections with investment houses and financiers than Murray et al have. Plus the club has been up for sale for several seasons and I presume that with his realist's head on that Murray knows the chance of a buyer/substantial investor walking through the door is pretty low. Unfortunately football as an industry makes little economic sense, and Murray I think is well aware of his limitations financially. As an aside last Monday was the first time that Man City's new owner had seen his club play - he's only been their owner for two years. So wealthy and unconcerned was he that it's taken nearly two seasons before he could be bothered to haul himself over to Manchester - in the meantime he's spent around half a billion pounds. That kind of spending is killing the game and he's only following on where Abramovich at Chelsea and Liverpool left off. Speaking of Liverpool - they are £237m in debt and their RBS backed loans come up for renewal in early October. If a successful club, with a global reach who have twice made the final of the CL in the last few years and regularly finish in the top four of the premier league are in financial difficulties why would any sentient human want to invest in a third tier club?
You are right to look ahead, but the crisis is right now and that is what has been addressed. The new corporate structure I see as a short-term thing (maybe one season or so) to keep the club both afloat financially and competitive in this division. By this time next year we could be back in the CCC and/or have new owners (more likely with promotion) and I don't think Murray is looking much further than that, yet he knows that the old debt structure might mean that more players would go and the risk of that would be that we become a fixture in L1 and maybe even Admin would be a reality. Obviously there is a fine balancing act to be played out here - keep costs low and strangle the club, or risk running the debts a while longer and hope that something happens. I like the new structure - and thank Murray, Chappell etc for their generosity, but there are only so many times that you can keep relying on them to bail the club out. Sooner or later that well will run dry.
Short-term I'm positive, but mid/long-term, it's clear that we urgently need new investors and Parky is going to have to either get the club promoted or take us on a lengthy and lucrative FA Cup run, preferably both. Looking at the squad I'm not sure there really are more saleable assets - Semedo, Reid, Waggy, Jackson, Elliot and Solly and that's about it. Next best thing is a fire-sale of the club and training facilities...
not sure about percentage, hence thereabouts, in todays terms and in the position we would find ourselves in if it did happen I personally would find it consequential..
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Dave...you raise some good points about being pro-active and chasing investors rather than reactively waiting for them to knock on our door.
I presume the reason why several groups have been retained over the last few years is to do exactly that - and the likes of Rothschilds have better connections with investment houses and financiers than Murray et al have. Plus the club has been up for sale for several seasons and I presume that with his realist's head on that Murray knows the chance of a buyer/substantial investor walking through the door is pretty low. Unfortunately football as an industry makes little economic sense, and Murray I think is well aware of his limitations financially. As an aside last Monday was the first time that Man City's new owner had seen his club play - he's only been their owner for two years. So wealthy and unconcerned was he that it's taken nearly two seasons before he could be bothered to haul himself over to Manchester - in the meantime he's spent around half a billion pounds. That kind of spending is killing the game and he's only following on where Abramovich at Chelsea and Liverpool left off. Speaking of Liverpool - they are £237m in debt and their RBS backed loans come up for renewal in early October. If a successful club, with a global reach who have twice made the final of the CL in the last few years and regularly finish in the top four of the premier league are in financial difficulties why would any sentient human want to invest in a third tier club?
You are right to look ahead, but the crisis is right now and that is what has been addressed. The new corporate structure I see as a short-term thing (maybe one season or so) to keep the club both afloat financially and competitive in this division. By this time next year we could be back in the CCC and/or have new owners (more likely with promotion) and I don't think Murray is looking much further than that, yet he knows that the old debt structure might mean that more players would go and the risk of that would be that we become a fixture in L1 and maybe even Admin would be a reality. Obviously there is a fine balancing act to be played out here - keep costs low and strangle the club, or risk running the debts a while longer and hope that something happens. I like the new structure - and thank Murray, Chappell etc for their generosity, but there are only so many times that you can keep relying on them to bail the club out. Sooner or later that well will run dry.
Short-term I'm positive, but mid/long-term, it's clear that we urgently need new investors and Parky is going to have to either get the club promoted or take us on a lengthy and lucrative FA Cup run, preferably both. Looking at the squad I'm not sure there really are more saleable assets - Semedo, Reid, Waggy, Jackson, Elliot and Solly and that's about it. Next best thing is a fire-sale of the club and training facilities...
These are still worrying times.
so the investor has £737million to blow on pool who aren't that sucessful
how much would it cost to get Charlton at a similar level
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]not sure about percentage, hence thereabouts, in todays terms and in the position we would find ourselves in if it did happen I personally would find it consequential..
Forgive a bit of hyperbole on my part. OK not absolutely inconsequential but relative to:
1. TV money going up by more than £5.5m pa in the Championship compared to League 1
2. £15m of bonds (capital and interest) being wiped out 100% and no capital due on loans unless and until the Prem is reached,
I'll change it to RELATIVELY inconsequential.
Anyway, please see the point I made above about the Football League...................and try looking on the bright side of this deal. It really is the best outcome in the circs ;0)
You ask "If a successful club, with a global reach who have twice made the final of the CL in the last few years and regularly finish in the top four of the premier league are in financial difficulties why would any sentient human want to invest in a third tier club?"
Answer - because, by any current definition (I'm thinking of Wigan, Fulham, Stoke etc), we are a Premier League club currently languishing in the lower regions of the Football League and represent an investment which is more likely to grow than to continue to decline. To draw a parallel with players, we are proven at Premier League level, but currently recovering from injury. Not an unproven lower League punt.
Add to that the location, assets, community elements etc and you have a bargain at a knockdown price.
Dave - be realistic, Charlton as a club have a lot of great things going for them, but if we are the bargain you think we are then why is it that after at least three years of being up for sale that no one has bitten Muzzer's arm off?
The reason isn't anything to do with the club - in the scheme of things the club itself is cheap and very attractive, but it's the cost of running it and then extracting value from an investment which is the problem and quite simply football as in industry is not being run on an economically sound basis or anything approaching one. What other industry would you see average earners trousering £2k a week and clubs paying out well over 50% (and more often 70-80%) of their income in wages? And at this level the average earners are very average. Remember with a threadbare squad we are scheduled to make a £4m loss this year. Then to sustain ourselves as a CCC club we either have to get lucky on the transfer market, discover a few gems in the reserve team, or more likely have to invest reasonably serious money and then most likely you'd still be running the club at a loss and all that with no guarantee of promotion or making a profit. To mount a serious premiership promotion campaign on top of that means investing yet more money. Anyone want to estimate what the cost of first buying and then getting a L1 club like Charlton into the Premier league would be in a timescale of 4-5 seasons?
Bear in mind that promotion this season means that next season we'll play against three clubs who'll be benefitting from parachute payments and maybe more if the likes of Hull etc don't bounce straight back. We struggled against Blackpool when we last played them, but next season if they don't beat the drop a relegated Blackpool will have that hefty financial cushion to fall back on. And they alone look the sanest club in the Premier League - reportedly refusing to pay over £10k a week - that's a maximum of £500K a year on wages per player. That is crazy enough but at least they aren't signing players that they won't be able to afford next year.
Football has moved from a wealthy man's game attracting the likes of Richard Murray and Derek Chappell etc to those who have to have very deep pockets, and that is why Murray I suspect is looking to get out and why he's struggling to find a buyer. Of course promotion and surviving a season or two in the premier League means that the investment might just pay off - and parachute payments make relegation palatable but that's a big risk to take. So my take on all this is that Murray is shoring things up, reducing some of the debts on the balance sheets and ensuring that even with a £4m projected loss that enough money is being spent on the squad but mid-term I think he'll take the first reasonable offer and I hope for his sake he gets avery generous offer, but I wouldn't hold my breath that an offer will even arrive let alone be generous enough.
On that basis, no-one would ever consider investing in any club. What's the old joke? How do you make £10 million from a football club? Invest £50 million.
People with money and investment groups do it for indirect reasons. Not to make money, but for the glory, the kudos, the image, the love.
You ask why no-one has bitten Murray's arm off. Well, that's back to my main theme ... which investors out there fully appreciate what they might get for their money? And how hard are we selling the Club?
And, if your last line reflects the true state of affairs ("I hope for his sake he gets a very generous offer, but I wouldn't hold my breath that an offer will even arrive let alone be generous enough"), then let's all give up now, shall we?
I think I've made my points sufficiently now. I'll let it rest.
I've stayed out of this debate. Have taken a few days to mull this over. I'm no financial expert so on that issue I'll beg ignorance.
My only real thought is that I am grateful at least one of the board has stepped forward in an effort to save the club. Whatever happens Murray is giving it a go.
Our financial situation has dramatically improved. The process of decision making will now be quicker and more efficient as less individuals are involved. This gives us a chance.
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite]And, if your last line reflects the true state of affairs ("I hope for his sake he gets a very generous offer, but I wouldn't hold my breath that an offer will even arrive let alone be generous enough"), then let's all give up now, shall we?
That's life Dave. The more one cares about something the more they are willing to go to the extremes to protect/save it.
I, personally, can't think of why someone would want to invest millions of pounds in our club after we have written off most, if not all of, the investments that have been made over the last twenty years, but it doesn't stop me from wanting it.
I don't want to make an unfair or upsetting comparison, but if you had a sick child that needed a life saving operation that was going to cost thousands of pounds that you could only just raise that was almost certainly going to be unsuccessful, you'd still pay for it wouldn't you?
That's why none of us want to give up, but it is probably better to have some sort of thoughts about what we will do if we cannot raise any more 'investment', rather than just hope that we go up.
To be honest I'm not sure of that's not what you've been saying all afternoon, so I'm not getting at you. I am just, for a short while, going to feel happy and grateful that we are ok for this season, at least.
Some great points Dave Rudd... Been saying the same things for years & years....
What saddens me is many of our fans, who probably see themselves as the "Glass half full" types don’t actually believe our great club is a great catch for a big investor....
I do, and believe it will happen one day…
Let’s hope this latest news goes some way into making that possible, and yes some news of pro-active work towards that goal would be very welcoming…
Hopefully, our downward spiral has finally 'bottomed out', as Thatcher's lackeys used to say back in the day.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the start of our upturn - our next successful cycle.
It's a catch 22 that we and practically ever non big 4 club are facing in that to make ourself financially secure we need to spend £s that we dont have to get promoted and then stay in that league. I think even the likes of clough and curbs would struggle to climb the leagues in the modern game with no money.
It almost feels like watching someone putting all his savings into a fruit machine and just praying that he'll hit the jackpot. Of course theres no guarantee of this and after ever failed spin skinter than before.
Ironically the top four have to do something the same each year to 'win' the Champions League money for the next season. Chelsea and Man City aside the others are in big trouble without the CL money. Something that might have much longer term consequences for Liverpool.
Digger comment in yesterday's Gridiron 'Sheikh Mansour has injected over half a billion pounds in cash into Man city over the past two years to cover expenditure. That sum exceeds the GDP of the Seychelles and Grenada. More will be needed - since the £92.6m loss to May last year, almost £220m net has been splashed out on new players. So with £300m spent on new players after player sales, £82.6m spent on wages in the 12 months to 31st May 2009 and losses of £96.2m over the same period, Mansour will have to put his hands in his pockets again. It is lucky they are deep.''
With England imploding in S.Africa, and football, the business, continuing to defy the economic rules that pertain in other sectors, my hope is that football in general can continue without too many victims. My fear is that we will be one of the victims. Can the Lionheart pull it off? AFKA's question keeps popping up in my brain. 'Have the lessons been learnt?' To which I would add, do we know what the lessons are?
Comments
Obviously nothing can be guaranteed to be 100% successful. I don't think I'd asked for that.
In the grand scheme of things and within an overall long-term strategy, I believe that it should be our top priority to make pro-active approaches to key investment groups. If not, and for all the good work that Richard Murray and others have done in recent and former times, our slow death will simply continue. Unless, of course, one of our many 'hopes' finally pays off.
So, I would start with a list of potential target investment groups. And I don't just mean the standard 'consortia' which we hear so much about. Let's think more widely and maybe adopt the model that exists elsewhere. Corporate ownership (for example) of football clubs is not a new idea, and it can work under the right circumstances - and, if it means my Club surviving, I can live with it having an ugly commercial name.
I would develop a specification for the types of investment group that we are prepared to approach, I would gather intelligence regarding what those target groups are looking for in any potential purchase and conduct a gap analysis to allow prioritising of targets to be made. I would then develop a game plan designed to ensure that the top targets are made to feel that acquisition of the Club is something that they cannot afford to walk away from. As a Club, we have significant assets and advantages over others. These need to be emphasised and sold attractively, particularly as we approach 2012 and the Olympic transformation of the E/SE part of London reaches completion, but also in terms of the Academy and the training ground and our track record of producing good footballing talent. The stadium is a credit to earlier foresight, and its potential needs to be maximised .. and then used as another major selling point.
Any investor coming to us will be in it for the long haul. We need to show that we are geared up for the long haul too ... not just looking to break even (we wish!) by hoping that we get into the Championship next season.
There will be holes and points of detail which can be picked upon in all of the above, but it represents my simple attempt to show what needs to be done and some of the steps required. If you, or others, tell me that most of this is already happening, then I'll be delighted. Educated (again), but delighted.
In fact, I’ll hazard a guess that the only reason that the directors' loans remain outstanding at all is that the terms of the Football League agreement that the restructuring deal should not incur the penalties of a de facto administration were that NO creditors took a hit on the amounts due to them.
In that regard, it is worth recalling that the bonds (which had an equity conversion option, originally designed to give the holders some equity-like upside) were not actually written off but were converted into shares prior to the restructuring – i.e. the bondholders ceased to be creditors when they converted the bonds to shares, of course knowing that those shares would be worthless.
So it is quite possible that, since the loans had no such equity conversion feature, to comply with the FL requirements, they could not be written off but could have their terms varied, as has been done. In any event, they are inconsequential.
Is it 5%?
In any event, yes
All sounds good to me.
The hiring of expensive agencies such as those listed and the preparation of presentations leads me to think that they have already done some of that though.
The whole re-structuing is about keeping the club going now but also making it more atractive to potential buyers. writing off huge debts is pretty pro-active IMHO.
The corporate ownership is the one I question. What's in it for them? buying a loss making company and if they spend £ms maybe getting to the Prem and coming 7th. RM mentioned the very same problem at the EGM so maybe he is thinking about these things but, you never know, just not talking about them.
I used corporate ownership as one example. You might ask the same question of any potential investor .. which is why they are hard to come by, and so precious that we need to make sure that we get one when they show willing.
But one answer is that many successful business enterprises have loss-making arms. They tolerate such things because they can add to the corporate image, and increase profitability in other areas of the business. Not exactly loss-leaders, but you get the idea. I talked about developing the specification for potential investment groups. This would be one aspect ... what kind of organisation would be prepared to lose money by owning a football club, but who might reap the rewards in other areas?
Hands up who bought a Viglen pc all those years ago?
They get to associate themselves with all that good work. Something that the Club has been big to promote alongside the location, olympics etc when trying to sell the Club in whatever way.
Dave, I really don't think the Club is a million miles away from what you are saying it's just that I think that they are going about it in a different way, in private and within the budget they have.
I presume the reason why several groups have been retained over the last few years is to do exactly that - and the likes of Rothschilds have better connections with investment houses and financiers than Murray et al have. Plus the club has been up for sale for several seasons and I presume that with his realist's head on that Murray knows the chance of a buyer/substantial investor walking through the door is pretty low. Unfortunately football as an industry makes little economic sense, and Murray I think is well aware of his limitations financially. As an aside last Monday was the first time that Man City's new owner had seen his club play - he's only been their owner for two years. So wealthy and unconcerned was he that it's taken nearly two seasons before he could be bothered to haul himself over to Manchester - in the meantime he's spent around half a billion pounds. That kind of spending is killing the game and he's only following on where Abramovich at Chelsea and Liverpool left off. Speaking of Liverpool - they are £237m in debt and their RBS backed loans come up for renewal in early October. If a successful club, with a global reach who have twice made the final of the CL in the last few years and regularly finish in the top four of the premier league are in financial difficulties why would any sentient human want to invest in a third tier club?
You are right to look ahead, but the crisis is right now and that is what has been addressed. The new corporate structure I see as a short-term thing (maybe one season or so) to keep the club both afloat financially and competitive in this division. By this time next year we could be back in the CCC and/or have new owners (more likely with promotion) and I don't think Murray is looking much further than that, yet he knows that the old debt structure might mean that more players would go and the risk of that would be that we become a fixture in L1 and maybe even Admin would be a reality. Obviously there is a fine balancing act to be played out here - keep costs low and strangle the club, or risk running the debts a while longer and hope that something happens. I like the new structure - and thank Murray, Chappell etc for their generosity, but there are only so many times that you can keep relying on them to bail the club out. Sooner or later that well will run dry.
Short-term I'm positive, but mid/long-term, it's clear that we urgently need new investors and Parky is going to have to either get the club promoted or take us on a lengthy and lucrative FA Cup run, preferably both. Looking at the squad I'm not sure there really are more saleable assets - Semedo, Reid, Waggy, Jackson, Elliot and Solly and that's about it. Next best thing is a fire-sale of the club and training facilities...
These are still worrying times.
so the investor has £737million to blow on pool who aren't that sucessful
how much would it cost to get Charlton at a similar level
Forgive a bit of hyperbole on my part. OK not absolutely inconsequential but relative to:
1. TV money going up by more than £5.5m pa in the Championship compared to League 1
2. £15m of bonds (capital and interest) being wiped out 100% and no capital due on loans unless and until the Prem is reached,
I'll change it to RELATIVELY inconsequential.
Anyway, please see the point I made above about the Football League...................and try looking on the bright side of this deal. It really is the best outcome in the circs ;0)
You ask "If a successful club, with a global reach who have twice made the final of the CL in the last few years and regularly finish in the top four of the premier league are in financial difficulties why would any sentient human want to invest in a third tier club?"
Answer - because, by any current definition (I'm thinking of Wigan, Fulham, Stoke etc), we are a Premier League club currently languishing in the lower regions of the Football League and represent an investment which is more likely to grow than to continue to decline. To draw a parallel with players, we are proven at Premier League level, but currently recovering from injury. Not an unproven lower League punt.
Add to that the location, assets, community elements etc and you have a bargain at a knockdown price.
And we would cost a lot, lot less than Liverpool.
Get back to your Grand National Stats, you : - )
yes boss
The reason isn't anything to do with the club - in the scheme of things the club itself is cheap and very attractive, but it's the cost of running it and then extracting value from an investment which is the problem and quite simply football as in industry is not being run on an economically sound basis or anything approaching one. What other industry would you see average earners trousering £2k a week and clubs paying out well over 50% (and more often 70-80%) of their income in wages? And at this level the average earners are very average. Remember with a threadbare squad we are scheduled to make a £4m loss this year. Then to sustain ourselves as a CCC club we either have to get lucky on the transfer market, discover a few gems in the reserve team, or more likely have to invest reasonably serious money and then most likely you'd still be running the club at a loss and all that with no guarantee of promotion or making a profit. To mount a serious premiership promotion campaign on top of that means investing yet more money. Anyone want to estimate what the cost of first buying and then getting a L1 club like Charlton into the Premier league would be in a timescale of 4-5 seasons?
Bear in mind that promotion this season means that next season we'll play against three clubs who'll be benefitting from parachute payments and maybe more if the likes of Hull etc don't bounce straight back. We struggled against Blackpool when we last played them, but next season if they don't beat the drop a relegated Blackpool will have that hefty financial cushion to fall back on. And they alone look the sanest club in the Premier League - reportedly refusing to pay over £10k a week - that's a maximum of £500K a year on wages per player. That is crazy enough but at least they aren't signing players that they won't be able to afford next year.
Football has moved from a wealthy man's game attracting the likes of Richard Murray and Derek Chappell etc to those who have to have very deep pockets, and that is why Murray I suspect is looking to get out and why he's struggling to find a buyer. Of course promotion and surviving a season or two in the premier League means that the investment might just pay off - and parachute payments make relegation palatable but that's a big risk to take. So my take on all this is that Murray is shoring things up, reducing some of the debts on the balance sheets and ensuring that even with a £4m projected loss that enough money is being spent on the squad but mid-term I think he'll take the first reasonable offer and I hope for his sake he gets avery generous offer, but I wouldn't hold my breath that an offer will even arrive let alone be generous enough.
On that basis, no-one would ever consider investing in any club. What's the old joke? How do you make £10 million from a football club? Invest £50 million.
People with money and investment groups do it for indirect reasons. Not to make money, but for the glory, the kudos, the image, the love.
You ask why no-one has bitten Murray's arm off. Well, that's back to my main theme ... which investors out there fully appreciate what they might get for their money? And how hard are we selling the Club?
And, if your last line reflects the true state of affairs ("I hope for his sake he gets a very generous offer, but I wouldn't hold my breath that an offer will even arrive let alone be generous enough"), then let's all give up now, shall we?
I think I've made my points sufficiently now. I'll let it rest.
Let's hope it all works out for the best.
My only real thought is that I am grateful at least one of the board has stepped forward in an effort to save the club. Whatever happens Murray is giving it a go.
Our financial situation has dramatically improved. The process of decision making will now be quicker and more efficient as less individuals are involved. This gives us a chance.
That's life Dave. The more one cares about something the more they are willing to go to the extremes to protect/save it.
I, personally, can't think of why someone would want to invest millions of pounds in our club after we have written off most, if not all of, the investments that have been made over the last twenty years, but it doesn't stop me from wanting it.
I don't want to make an unfair or upsetting comparison, but if you had a sick child that needed a life saving operation that was going to cost thousands of pounds that you could only just raise that was almost certainly going to be unsuccessful, you'd still pay for it wouldn't you?
That's why none of us want to give up, but it is probably better to have some sort of thoughts about what we will do if we cannot raise any more 'investment', rather than just hope that we go up.
To be honest I'm not sure of that's not what you've been saying all afternoon, so I'm not getting at you. I am just, for a short while, going to feel happy and grateful that we are ok for this season, at least.
What saddens me is many of our fans, who probably see themselves as the "Glass half full" types don’t actually believe our great club is a great catch for a big investor....
I do, and believe it will happen one day…
Let’s hope this latest news goes some way into making that possible, and yes some news of pro-active work towards that goal would be very welcoming…
Hopefully, our downward spiral has finally 'bottomed out', as Thatcher's lackeys used to say back in the day.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the start of our upturn - our next successful cycle.
My glass, as always, is half full.
It almost feels like watching someone putting all his savings into a fruit machine and just praying that he'll hit the jackpot. Of course theres no guarantee of this and after ever failed spin skinter than before.
With England imploding in S.Africa, and football, the business, continuing to defy the economic rules that pertain in other sectors, my hope is that football in general can continue without too many victims. My fear is that we will be one of the victims. Can the Lionheart pull it off? AFKA's question keeps popping up in my brain. 'Have the lessons been learnt?' To which I would add, do we know what the lessons are?