The new rating list came out earlier this Summer, based on rateable values in 2008. Hopefully, the RV of the Valley should have diminished since 2003 (the basis for the last list). Any idea if that's the case?
Lot of lines to read between! Thus shared future investment = most likely way forward and we're very happy to have very close relative of the 16 th richest man in football on board plus any other stray millyonairs?
It all makes me dwell again on just how much damage was done in such a short time, but thanks to the generosity of RM and plenty of others, we're still alive and kicking, watching pretty good football with a presumed chance opf promotion.
Ideally someone loaded who's happy to come in, be patient, and work with our trusted Charlton people, rather than buy them out altogether would fit the bill, but they're clearly not queueing up just now. At least the shelving of so much of the debt surely makes us more attractive so THANKS again all involved.
One final financial thought (I don't pretend to grasp all the figures involved in running a professional football club). As a nation we've dug really deep at a time of financial difficulty to raise an admirable £30,000,000 to help the poor peole rendered homeless or far worse in Pakistan. City (eg) regularly spend that on a player they can barely find a place for. Football has needed to take a long hard look at itself for a long time but it suits too many people not to, leaving the field clear for the mercenaries to raid time and again.
[cite]Posted By: Paddy7[/cite]It all makes me dwell again on just how much damage was done in such a short time, but thanks to the generosity of RM and plenty of others, we're still alive and kicking,
Devils advocate would offer the thought that RM and plenty of others were responsible for us getting into such a financial mess by allowing budgets to get to unsustainable levels, offering contracts that would go on to prove so damaging, and a plan B that furthered the financial mire.
Yes RM's financial support is something we should all be grateful for, but a lot of poor decision making and strategy has been allowed to happen in the past 5 years, and he would have been central to it.
What matters now is has he learnt his lesson from the mistakes that have been made ?
Indeed AFKA; I thought that as I wrote, but just look at what it all cost him, and there he is, trying his utmost to put it right - unlike certain others, eg a manager who helped fritter away those millions, then demanded some more for himself as a "thank-you" for screwing us.
Weds 04 Aug 2010
Premier League cash boost to Football League
The Premier League has confirmed an unprecedented funding package for the Football League.
The £372m package is worth £124m a season for the next three seasons.
The move follows the agreement by the Football League, at their EGM, to vote in a series of rule changes in regard to financial regulation, transparency of ownership and ground criteria.
enormous difference
Premier League Chief Executive, Richard Scudamore, said: "The financial strength of the Premier League has always benefitted the entire English game, but we are taking the unprecedented step of formalising arrangements so that the solidarity payments and the alignment of rules - in some fairly critical areas - are linked.
"The Premier League clubs felt strongly that a stronger Championship would be greatly beneficial to both competitions. It is a fact of life that we welcome three of their number each season and helping make sure those clubs coming up are prepared - both on and off the pitch - for life in the Premier League was something we felt these measures would achieve.
"The extra revenue - £2.2m per Championship club, £335,000 per League 1 club and £225,000 per League 2 club - coming in every season for the next three will make an enormous difference to the individual incomes of those clubs, but more importantly will make planning for the future that much easier.
"The rule changes have not just been a one-way street. Where we felt the Football League's were stronger we adopted them into the Premier League Rule Book - for example the Owners and Directors Test now precludes anyone who has been banned by another sports' governing body or professional body. My firm belief is that a stronger, more closely aligned set of rules for the Premier League and Football League will serve English professional football well.
"Having common rules in areas such as player contracts, third party ownership of players, and public disclosure of club ownership is something we have worked towards for a number of years and we are pleased that the Football League have voted them in today.
"The Football League solidarity package, combined with our new £6m funding of the Football Conference and our ongoing £15m per season commitment to the Football Foundation shows that we take our responsibilities to every level of the game very seriously. There is no other league structure in Europe that can boast such levels of redistribution.
"With such levels of investment and unity of purpose in Youth Development and financial regulation the long-term prospects for the English game - at every level - should be very positive."
What''s sure is that all this significance being placed on whether we get promoted or not will mean that, once again, a win will only seem like a relief, a draw not good enough, and a loss a disaster. Gone are the days where the result could be met with a philosophical shrug and smile at those twin imposters, success and failure. now it feels too much like life or death of the club. It's worse than real life!
[cite]Posted By: Nadou[/cite] Gone are the days where the result could be met with a philosophical shrug and smile at those twin imposters, success and failure. now it feels too much like life or death of the club. It's worse than real life!
Very good, Nadou! Now who was it said football wasn't a matter of life or death because it's much more important than that ?
[cite] oohaahmortimer said[/cite]
fairplay to the directors/fans who have torn up their money but will there be any more lunatics about to burn money on this football club, no one in their right mind would surely
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]What about if Richard attracts outside Investment that is effectively Not a buy out ie getting someone else in to share the Financial Load, think that is still a possibility.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]What about if Richard attracts outside Investment that is effectively Not a buy out ie getting someone else in to share the Financial Load, think that is still a possibility.
I think that is the much more likely scenario.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]what Ketman said.
thats what i bloody said but you lot chose to ignore it poxy fooking Clique
either that or i took a million words to explain it and still you didnt understand ;-)
we've given up listening to you first all we dont want benson then we do, then we dont, were not even sure you know what you mean ;-)
Well the earners I would guess at KY, JS and TR so maybe were looking to offload TR wouldnt be surprise unless im misssing someone
i know i dont even still know about Benson as for not listening i am used to that no one listens to me at home or work
Frankly NLA I just don't read your posts as you don't know how (or don't make the effort) to write in a coherent manner
Having thought about this overnight, I am not sure how big a deal this is considering we are still left with a large chunk of debt - deferred or otherwise.
On one hand it could be said this is generosity, on the other hand it could be described as more closeley representing the reality of our situation, the Directors sadly were never going to get their money back, and deffering interest is one way of attempting to keep what remains of their investment alive by delaying Administration - one assumes that some of Director creditors include Murray himself? If I were being ungenerous for a moment I would say in fact that this was still not the case, and that a complete writing off of that debt would more closely reflect reality, let's face facts this is not a DIY administration.
Weighing it up with Administration can we really be sure that this is the better option? I think we would be far more attractive for purchase with far less debt, although if no prospective buyer is really about in that scenario, we obviously don't want to be hanging about under unfriendly control.
I think promotion is 50/50 so all this has really done is tinker a little and keep us afloat for a little bit longer, still with the prospect of some kind of return to those investors - is this the right thing to do or is it just prolonging the inevitiable?
Its clearly a huge gamble and without wishing to be ungrateful to all those who did and are still ploughing cash in to our club, I have mixed feelings about it, let's hope if pays off, even then we would still be saddled with debts to pay if we ever did get back to the prem albeit small ones.
If you gamble on promotion to the Champ., you risk losing everything, if you don't gamble on promotion to the Champ, you risk losing everything, but at a slower rate.
[cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]Just watching RM on player.
Weighing it up with Administration can we really be sure that this is the better option? I think we would be far more attractive for purchase with far less debt, although if no prospective buyer is really about in that scenario, we obviously don't want to be hanging about under unfriendly control.
.
And we'd be on - 3 points. Maybe more as in admin we'd have not bought or already sold some of the squad making as even more unattractive and less likely to go up.
The more I think about it the more significant I think Richard Hatter's presence on the new board COULD be.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]let's face facts this is not a DIY
But it is a brave attempt to put our own house in a semblance of order - at least for now.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Weighing it up with Administration can we really be sure that this is the better option?
If we did actually enter Administration - then all saleable assets would be sold at give away prices where they are actual buyers. Those who've stood by the club and shown their trust, would be shafted.
Okay that would include the mortgage company and the bank, but also everybody else down to the company who supply the pies. That could have a knock on effect in a recession and endanger the viability of other businesses.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]I think promotion is 50/50 so all this has really done is tinker a little and keep us afloat for a little bit longer, still with the prospect of some kind of return to those investors - is this the right thing to do or is it just prolonging the inevitiable?
If we'd had our best players sold from under us at giveaway prices - plus a -10 point administration that would put us bottom of the table and a possibility, with key players sold and a much weakened team, of relegation to League 2.
This way, it gives us a fighting chance pof promotion to the Championship. If we don't win promotion this year, then we have to think again - but in any case, the 'Big 3' earners would be out of contract and departed, so savings there next season.
Murray says Charlton are financially viable in the Championship.
So the vital thing ...... is for everyone, supporters, team, directors to get behind the club and maximise our chance of promotion.
If you enter and leave Administration in-between transfer windows you cannot sell players. Palace didn't sell any players before they knocked 99% of their debt and bullied a bank owned by the public to sell them Selhurst for a fraction of what their current agreement dictated.
Easy to paint the worst-case picture of administration.
But you only have to look at Southampton and Palace to see that is not usually what happens.
I undertsand all of Razil's concerns and he is quite right to raise them.
But right now I think we can only look at one season at a time, as RM apparently said at the meeting. It would be great to have a five year plan to restore us to prosperity in the premiership by 2015. But we don't even have the basics in place to start thinking about that kind of long-term strategy.
We have to get through this season and hope we are in the championship next season. If we are not, all options will have to viewed again - including administration.But on blance, the fact that we have delayed that for at least another year has to be a good thing. I think...
Very naive I know, but it just feels right to try and put our own house in order, and try to build again without shafting our smaller creditors. I don't like the way Palace handled their mess - come to think of it, I don't like Palace, so no surprise there. If - and it's still a big if - we can rebuild and push on to promotion there will of course be a sense of relief because of the bigger financial picture, but I'd feel an immense amount of pride in our club for doing it that way.
[cite]Posted By: Paddy7[/cite]Very naive I know, but it just feels right to try and put our own house in order, and try to build again without shafting our smaller creditors. I don't like the way Palace handled their mess - come to think of it, I don't like Palace, so no surprise there. If - and it's still a big if - we can rebuild and push on to promotion there will of course be a sense of relief because of the bigger financial picture, but I'd feel an immense amount of pride in our club for doing it that way.
I agree.
We may still need to go down the Administration route next season or soon after but I'd much rather we didn't for the reasons you give but also because Administration is nasty.
Nigel, you can say "Easy to paint the worst-case picture of administration. But you only have to look at Southampton and Palace to see that is not usually what happens."
But what about all the people who lost their jobs at those clubs, the good players sold? Both Palace and Soton were days if not hours, from going under. Teams like Stockport have been relegated and are still on a downward spiral, Chester went out of business. Portsmouth are still not out of trouble either so it's not just smaller clubs. Rotherham have no ground of their own. So which is "usual" outcome.
Admin is not a good thing and is not a desirable thing and Palace are the classic example. They have done it twice so it doesn't solve all your problems.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Having thought about this overnight, I am not sure how big a deal this is considering we are still left with a large chunk of debt - deferred or otherwise.
On one hand it could be said this is generosity, on the other hand it could be described as more closeley representing the reality of our situation, the Directors sadly were never going to get their money back, and deffering interest is one way of attempting to keep what remains of their investment alive by delaying Administration - one assumes that some of Director creditors include Murray himself? If I were being ungenerous for a moment I would say in fact that this was still not the case, and that a complete writing off of that debt would more closely reflect reality, let's face facts this is not a DIY administration.
Weighing it up with Administration can we really be sure that this is the better option? I think we would be far more attractive for purchase with far less debt, although if no prospective buyer is really about in that scenario, we obviously don't want to be hanging about under unfriendly control.
I think promotion is 50/50 so all this has really done is tinker a little and keep us afloat for a little bit longer, still with the prospect of some kind of return to those investors - is this the right thing to do or is it just prolonging the inevitiable?
Its clearly a huge gamble and without wishing to be ungrateful to all those who did and are still ploughing cash in to our club, I have mixed feelings about it, let's hope if pays off, even then we would still be saddled with debts to pay if we ever did get back to the prem albeit small ones.
Razil, I understand that you are expressing gratitude to some degree but I honestly don't know how you can possibly have mixed feelings comparing this to administration.
1. The directors that were bondholders have written off 100% of those bonds - money never to be seen by them again under any circs. At a stroke £15m less debt, period.
2. The loans (£7m from memory) are only repayable in 25% chunks (i.e less than £2m) per season we stay in the Prem - IF we ever get back there (in that case, peanuts and certainly less of a cost to the club than the cost of the free season tickets once offered)
All of this done:
1. Without shafting a single external creditor
2. Ensuring that CAFC suffers no points deduction and no transfer embargo
3. RM pledging to underwite CAFC for the current season to the tune of an extra £5m
Nothing is guaranteed beyond the current season (what's new for clubs outside the Prem?) but, given that there are evidently no Liebherr's or group of super-wealthy fans as have rescued Palace that are interested in buying CAFC and pumping serious capital into it, this is 100% good news.
Administration is neither good nor desirable. But it would be the right thing to do if we were merely delaying the inevitable.
My point is that it is NOT inevitable, and so it would be the wrong thing to do. We have a fighting chance of getting back to the championship for the 2011/12 season - and then RM says the figures will start to stack up again.
We might not do it and then admin will come back on to the agenda. But RM and others have given us a fighting chance of avoiding it. Let's hope we can seize that chance.
Comments
The new rating list came out earlier this Summer, based on rateable values in 2008. Hopefully, the RV of the Valley should have diminished since 2003 (the basis for the last list). Any idea if that's the case?
Ideally someone loaded who's happy to come in, be patient, and work with our trusted Charlton people, rather than buy them out altogether would fit the bill, but they're clearly not queueing up just now. At least the shelving of so much of the debt surely makes us more attractive so THANKS again all involved.
One final financial thought (I don't pretend to grasp all the figures involved in running a professional football club). As a nation we've dug really deep at a time of financial difficulty to raise an admirable £30,000,000 to help the poor peole rendered homeless or far worse in Pakistan. City (eg) regularly spend that on a player they can barely find a place for. Football has needed to take a long hard look at itself for a long time but it suits too many people not to, leaving the field clear for the mercenaries to raid time and again.
Devils advocate would offer the thought that RM and plenty of others were responsible for us getting into such a financial mess by allowing budgets to get to unsustainable levels, offering contracts that would go on to prove so damaging, and a plan B that furthered the financial mire.
Yes RM's financial support is something we should all be grateful for, but a lot of poor decision making and strategy has been allowed to happen in the past 5 years, and he would have been central to it.
What matters now is has he learnt his lesson from the mistakes that have been made ?
http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~2111042,00.html
http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~2111042,00.html
(Cant get the links to work!!)
Weds 04 Aug 2010
Premier League cash boost to Football League
The Premier League has confirmed an unprecedented funding package for the Football League.
The £372m package is worth £124m a season for the next three seasons.
The move follows the agreement by the Football League, at their EGM, to vote in a series of rule changes in regard to financial regulation, transparency of ownership and ground criteria.
enormous difference
Premier League Chief Executive, Richard Scudamore, said: "The financial strength of the Premier League has always benefitted the entire English game, but we are taking the unprecedented step of formalising arrangements so that the solidarity payments and the alignment of rules - in some fairly critical areas - are linked.
"The Premier League clubs felt strongly that a stronger Championship would be greatly beneficial to both competitions. It is a fact of life that we welcome three of their number each season and helping make sure those clubs coming up are prepared - both on and off the pitch - for life in the Premier League was something we felt these measures would achieve.
"The extra revenue - £2.2m per Championship club, £335,000 per League 1 club and £225,000 per League 2 club - coming in every season for the next three will make an enormous difference to the individual incomes of those clubs, but more importantly will make planning for the future that much easier.
"The rule changes have not just been a one-way street. Where we felt the Football League's were stronger we adopted them into the Premier League Rule Book - for example the Owners and Directors Test now precludes anyone who has been banned by another sports' governing body or professional body. My firm belief is that a stronger, more closely aligned set of rules for the Premier League and Football League will serve English professional football well.
"Having common rules in areas such as player contracts, third party ownership of players, and public disclosure of club ownership is something we have worked towards for a number of years and we are pleased that the Football League have voted them in today.
"The Football League solidarity package, combined with our new £6m funding of the Football Conference and our ongoing £15m per season commitment to the Football Foundation shows that we take our responsibilities to every level of the game very seriously. There is no other league structure in Europe that can boast such levels of redistribution.
"With such levels of investment and unity of purpose in Youth Development and financial regulation the long-term prospects for the English game - at every level - should be very positive."
Very good, Nadou! Now who was it said football wasn't a matter of life or death because it's much more important than that ?
will be when we sign
le fondre
benson
Fortune
Basey
Kevin phillips
Claus Jenson
Mike Flanagan
Father Christmas
Johnny Summers' grandson
the ghost of Stanley Matthews
but at least we've got the ginger Pele. eh?
4get
Curbs
Gritty
Lennie
Jimmy seed or the sth stand as he now likes to be known now
Jimmy South Stand ....... as I heard it called last season. I dread to think what Henry will say.
Frankly NLA I just don't read your posts as you don't know how (or don't make the effort) to write in a coherent manner
Really depressing.
On one hand it could be said this is generosity, on the other hand it could be described as more closeley representing the reality of our situation, the Directors sadly were never going to get their money back, and deffering interest is one way of attempting to keep what remains of their investment alive by delaying Administration - one assumes that some of Director creditors include Murray himself? If I were being ungenerous for a moment I would say in fact that this was still not the case, and that a complete writing off of that debt would more closely reflect reality, let's face facts this is not a DIY administration.
Weighing it up with Administration can we really be sure that this is the better option? I think we would be far more attractive for purchase with far less debt, although if no prospective buyer is really about in that scenario, we obviously don't want to be hanging about under unfriendly control.
I think promotion is 50/50 so all this has really done is tinker a little and keep us afloat for a little bit longer, still with the prospect of some kind of return to those investors - is this the right thing to do or is it just prolonging the inevitiable?
Its clearly a huge gamble and without wishing to be ungrateful to all those who did and are still ploughing cash in to our club, I have mixed feelings about it, let's hope if pays off, even then we would still be saddled with debts to pay if we ever did get back to the prem albeit small ones.
Exactly.
And we'd be on - 3 points. Maybe more as in admin we'd have not bought or already sold some of the squad making as even more unattractive and less likely to go up.
The more I think about it the more significant I think Richard Hatter's presence on the new board COULD be.
But it is a brave attempt to put our own house in a semblance of order - at least for now.
If we did actually enter Administration - then all saleable assets would be sold at give away prices where they are actual buyers. Those who've stood by the club and shown their trust, would be shafted.
Okay that would include the mortgage company and the bank, but also everybody else down to the company who supply the pies. That could have a knock on effect in a recession and endanger the viability of other businesses.
If we'd had our best players sold from under us at giveaway prices - plus a -10 point administration that would put us bottom of the table and a possibility, with key players sold and a much weakened team, of relegation to League 2.
This way, it gives us a fighting chance pof promotion to the Championship. If we don't win promotion this year, then we have to think again - but in any case, the 'Big 3' earners would be out of contract and departed, so savings there next season.
Murray says Charlton are financially viable in the Championship.
So the vital thing ...... is for everyone, supporters, team, directors to get behind the club and maximise our chance of promotion.
We can do this together.
But you only have to look at Southampton and Palace to see that is not usually what happens.
I undertsand all of Razil's concerns and he is quite right to raise them.
But right now I think we can only look at one season at a time, as RM apparently said at the meeting. It would be great to have a five year plan to restore us to prosperity in the premiership by 2015. But we don't even have the basics in place to start thinking about that kind of long-term strategy.
We have to get through this season and hope we are in the championship next season. If we are not, all options will have to viewed again - including administration.But on blance, the fact that we have delayed that for at least another year has to be a good thing. I think...
I agree.
We may still need to go down the Administration route next season or soon after but I'd much rather we didn't for the reasons you give but also because Administration is nasty.
Nigel, you can say "Easy to paint the worst-case picture of administration. But you only have to look at Southampton and Palace to see that is not usually what happens."
But what about all the people who lost their jobs at those clubs, the good players sold? Both Palace and Soton were days if not hours, from going under. Teams like Stockport have been relegated and are still on a downward spiral, Chester went out of business. Portsmouth are still not out of trouble either so it's not just smaller clubs. Rotherham have no ground of their own. So which is "usual" outcome.
Admin is not a good thing and is not a desirable thing and Palace are the classic example. They have done it twice so it doesn't solve all your problems.
Razil, I understand that you are expressing gratitude to some degree but I honestly don't know how you can possibly have mixed feelings comparing this to administration.
1. The directors that were bondholders have written off 100% of those bonds - money never to be seen by them again under any circs. At a stroke £15m less debt, period.
2. The loans (£7m from memory) are only repayable in 25% chunks (i.e less than £2m) per season we stay in the Prem - IF we ever get back there (in that case, peanuts and certainly less of a cost to the club than the cost of the free season tickets once offered)
All of this done:
1. Without shafting a single external creditor
2. Ensuring that CAFC suffers no points deduction and no transfer embargo
3. RM pledging to underwite CAFC for the current season to the tune of an extra £5m
Nothing is guaranteed beyond the current season (what's new for clubs outside the Prem?) but, given that there are evidently no Liebherr's or group of super-wealthy fans as have rescued Palace that are interested in buying CAFC and pumping serious capital into it, this is 100% good news.
My point is that it is NOT inevitable, and so it would be the wrong thing to do. We have a fighting chance of getting back to the championship for the 2011/12 season - and then RM says the figures will start to stack up again.
We might not do it and then admin will come back on to the agenda. But RM and others have given us a fighting chance of avoiding it. Let's hope we can seize that chance.