As a 43yr old who's been smoking since the age of 13 (shame on me) I do feel the need of a fag during a match, but as i know its not allowed, i just wait it out and then smoke til my lungs are burning once i get out of the ground. I agree that the club could try to do something about this. For those who say its only for a couple of hours, think back to the play-off semi, which went into extra time, added with the obvious stress put on us smokers. I totally agree that non smokers shouldn't have to be made to breath in that filthy stuff and smoking in the bogs is definately not the answer. I took my 9 yr old son to his first game last season and he had to endure that when going to the loo. I don't smoke in my house so he doesn't have to put up with the stink. If tobacco was discovered today, it would be classed as a class A highly addictive drug (as would alcohol)But it would be a very strong goverment to actually ban it completely, i just wish they would so i could finally quit. And for those who say about the finacial burden we smokers put on the NHS, A smoker contributes about 6 times more tax through the purchase of tobacco than the NHS spends on treating him. So how about the govt spend a little of that building little "smoking compounds" at football grounds? :-)
If there is too much smoke in the toilets maybe you should have your 9 year olds take a pee on the concourse, that would soon make the club do something about the toilet.
If the club spent money (something we don't have) providing an area outside the ground would those that are willing to smoke in the toilets now go stand in the pouring rain or would they go back to the toilets - after the club have spent the money?
As for the stress of a two hour (plus for extra time) match? Do smokers suffer more stress than the rest of us? What do the non-smokers do at half time to calm their nerves?
For personal reasons I'm about as anti-smoking as one can be but even if I wasn't I would be rather more active complaining about it if my son were being subjected to that leathal smoke.
I don't allow people to smoke in my house, and I won't go to other people's houses where they smoke. It's illigal to smoke indoors in 'public buildings', it should be stopped by the club.
There should be no debate about it, it should be stopped.
Smoking in the Stadium is illegal. yes, we know it goes on but it is.
Three hurdles to overcome to allow smoking OUTSIDE the Stadium.
1. Getting the Police/Local Authority who licence the Stadium to allow it.
2. Controlling an external Smoking area
3. The Cost of 2.
On 1. There are examples from other clubs so this is not impossible but both Spanners and Derby are new stadiums with large-ish concourses around them. At The Valley much of the surrounding area is public streets. But those examples show it's not impossible.
On 2. Police won't want gates just opened and neither will the Club as it could allow people to sneak in (I know all the jokes about "more likely to want to sneak out") or could lead to conflict. OK, unlikely for most games but a few games last season it could have been an issue.
On 3. Buying barriers to set up four Smoking areas costs. There might be some at the club now but I don't know.
Bigger cost would be stewards x four. Yes, "they all stand around all day" but they don't. They have to stand where they are told to meet the licence for the Stadium so extra stewards would be needed.
So how do YOU take it forward - because it is going to have to be YOU as the Off-it option of getting the Ball Boys to do it (only joking, Offy) won't work.
Would any of YOU volunteer to Steward a smoking area in your stand for 20 mins every game. You'd have to set it up and close it down and maybe do some training as well (yes, stewards are regulated and have to be trained so no more jokes please).
you'd do it for free but you'd get a nice day-glo jacket and the chance to have a fag.
Might not work, might be that the hurdles are too high to jump but either YOU try or we have yet another thread on smoking at the Valley.
I don't have a problem with an area being allocated (although I wouldn't want money taken away from the team to pay for it) I just think there should be no debate about smoking in the toilets. The club should enforce the ban.
no debate on smoking anywhere inside the ground IMO should be enforced with an iron fist
but the way football fans are treated in the country is scandleous
what Derby done for away fans was nothing short of magic and i would like to see us replicate that make Charlton a ground away fans want to come to would increase the gate imo
and as for home fans would it really be so difficult to create a section outside the nth, east and west i dont think so
Is it actually against the law to smoke inside a ground? Since the terraces aren't an enclosed space and the outer areas (such as the area between the Seed & Main stand at your place) which are "inside" the ground but are completely open air.
I thought the banning of smoking in stadiums was an FA, Premier League and Football League decision rather than it being actually enshrined within the laws the government passed?
As for the cost of setting up external smoking areas...it's some fencing that costs sod all that can be moved around and 1 steward per area is needed if there are no stewards available at half time from the existing pool.
[cite]Posted By: kings hill addick[/cite]The toilets are 'indide' and from what I understand so are all the concourses behind the North Upper Stand.
I meant on the terrace and in the unenclosed areas, such as the concourses behind your main stand, by Seed etc. I thought it was a football decision to ban smoking inside grounds....just like it was a transport authority decision to ban smoking on train platforms.
[cite]Posted By: tangoflash[/cite] A smoker contributes about 6 times more tax through the purchase of tobacco than the NHS spends on treating him.
My mate at work says this all the time to justify his smoking. Found out he's been smoking duty-frees for the last few years! :-)
The club should begin to enforce the law with the help of the relevant authorities. Tough love etc.
Some people very close to me have been battling cancer (not smoking related cancer) for the past couple of years. Some have beaten it and others not so lucky but went down fighting to their last breath. Smokers know all the risks associated with smoking so to flout the law and have such disregard for non-smokers (as well a dis-regard for their own health) makes me sick. I've got a good mind to call the council and police myself next home game.
Smoking is banned in all indoor public places. This includes restaurants, pubs, theaters, cinemas, clubs and work spaces. Smoking is banned on all public transport and on railway platforms. Even though these platforms are often not indoors, they are regarded as being "substantially enclosed," and so smoking remains illegal. The same rule applies to other substantially enclosed places such as football stadiums and outdoor sports arenas.
Read more: UK Smoking Rules | eHow.co.uk http://www.ehow.co.uk/list_6600493_uk-smoking-rules.html#ixzz0xby00rNd
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]"Where is smoking banned?
Smoking is banned in all indoor public places. This includes restaurants, pubs, theaters, cinemas, clubs and work spaces. Smoking is banned on all public transport and on railway platforms. Even though these platforms are often not indoors, they are regarded as being "substantially enclosed," and so smoking remains illegal. The same rule applies to other substantially enclosed places such as football stadiums and outdoor sports arenas.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]"Where is smoking banned?
Smoking is banned in all indoor public places. This includes restaurants, pubs, theaters, cinemas, clubs and work spaces. Smoking is banned on all public transport and on railway platforms. Even though these platforms are often not indoors, they are regarded as being "substantially enclosed," and so smoking remains illegal. The same rule applies to other substantially enclosed places such as football stadiums and outdoor sports arenas.
No. The Association of Train Operator Companies (ATOC) and Network Rail has introduced a comprehensive smokefree policy throughout at all 1,900 railway stations in England as well as railway offices - station offices, canteens and workplace areas which are covered by the legislation. Because of this policy, smoking is prohibited on all station concourses, ticket halls, on platforms - covered and uncovered - and footbridges and subways at station premises. Retail and food outlets are also required to be smokefree. However, smoking will still be permitted on most station forecourts and in (uncovered) station car parks. No-smoking signs will indicate which areas are smokefree. If you are in doubt, ask a member of staff."
States that it is policy to prohibit smoking on platforms because of legislation covering all other areas.
So that's why I thought football stadiums took the same view on making the entire ground non-smoking even when there are big open areas because of the legislation covering concourses, toilets etc.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]"Where is smoking banned?
Smoking is banned in all indoor public places. This includes restaurants, pubs, theaters, cinemas, clubs and work spaces. Smoking is banned on all public transport and on railway platforms. Even though these platforms are often not indoors, they are regarded as being "substantially enclosed," and so smoking remains illegal. The same rule applies to other substantially enclosed places such as football stadiums and outdoor sports arenas.
but i dont want an inside one H i want an outside one like they gave us at derby
or did derby break the law and those cozzers just stand by and watch
No, cos that was outside the confines of the stadium where as, for example, the open concourse behind the East Stand (where the real fans sit) is open air but inside the confines of the stadium.
Same as the Spanner says above. Train station car parks and forecourts are outside the station but platforms are inside.
Any way you lot, stop arguing technical points on here, DO SOMETHING FFS.
I don't care as I don't smoke and no one smokes in the East Stand bogs as we are "proper" Charlton but if you want to change things get on to John.little@cafc.co.uk who is the safety officer and top bloke and find a way forward.
I noticed no one has volunteered to steward an outside smoking area. Come on, where are you? Money, mouth, put in same place.
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]i've run out of puff on this one. The fans forum didnt get very far and Derby didnt even bother responding to my polite requests on costs.
was a great day out though B wasnt it and it will always put Derby on a must do away day for me i am sure Richard or one of the dircetors could find out easily
I think it is wrong to assume that smoking in a stadium doesn't affect others because it isn't an enclosed place. If you sit near to a smoker in a stand you can't avoid breathing in their smoke- it can even be worse if a breeze blows it in your face. It always struck me that smokers were never too bothered about any discomfort they inflicted on others so am quite pleased that society is really having a go at them now. If you can't go 2 hours without a smoke you have a big problem.
Sorry im sucked in... i cant be bothered to read back muttley to see where anyone says that about an enclosed space but I CANNOT see the problem with people beng allowed to walk to the back of the EAST STAND where that huge great bit of wasted concrete space is - about 30 steps away from non smokers if not more to enjoy a crafty smoke.
im an occasional smoker but i shouted at a man this morning who lit up walking up a side this morning as his smoke hit my face as i was walking behind him. Disgusting. I had to help a woman who was having an asthma attack in the same road last week as the same thing happened to her being caught by a walker full in the face with their smoke.
But jesus why cant we congregate at the back of the east stand - id move there and pay extra money to the club!!
There isn't really a problem if you allocate a specific space away from others but there is more to it than that. I think society wants smoking to be anti social now and I personally think it is a good approach becuase ultimately it will save lives. People complain about their liberties but you can't go and have sex with your wife and girlfriend behind the stand, even though this won't actually harm anybody. There are rules which determine what we can and can't do. Smoking is just becoming something you can't do in public. Of course you can have sex where you like at home and a fag afterwards if you like!
You can smoke at Horse raving venues. Nobody pulled me about smoking at Northwich though I did get pulled for drinking lager behind the goal. If there was any club that was NOT going to attend to smokers needs then surely it's us.
was a great day out though B wasnt it and it will always put Derby on a must do away day for me i am sure Richard or one of the dircetors could find out easily
We need a director who likes a drink and a smoke. No, can't think of anyone.
Comments
Happy Alan that is funny
Not sure if this counts as being legally outside of the ground or is just a case of stewards applying a bit of common sense and turning a blind eye.
If the club spent money (something we don't have) providing an area outside the ground would those that are willing to smoke in the toilets now go stand in the pouring rain or would they go back to the toilets - after the club have spent the money?
As for the stress of a two hour (plus for extra time) match? Do smokers suffer more stress than the rest of us? What do the non-smokers do at half time to calm their nerves?
For personal reasons I'm about as anti-smoking as one can be but even if I wasn't I would be rather more active complaining about it if my son were being subjected to that leathal smoke.
I don't allow people to smoke in my house, and I won't go to other people's houses where they smoke. It's illigal to smoke indoors in 'public buildings', it should be stopped by the club.
There should be no debate about it, it should be stopped.
Smoking in the Stadium is illegal. yes, we know it goes on but it is.
Three hurdles to overcome to allow smoking OUTSIDE the Stadium.
1. Getting the Police/Local Authority who licence the Stadium to allow it.
2. Controlling an external Smoking area
3. The Cost of 2.
On 1. There are examples from other clubs so this is not impossible but both Spanners and Derby are new stadiums with large-ish concourses around them. At The Valley much of the surrounding area is public streets. But those examples show it's not impossible.
On 2. Police won't want gates just opened and neither will the Club as it could allow people to sneak in (I know all the jokes about "more likely to want to sneak out") or could lead to conflict. OK, unlikely for most games but a few games last season it could have been an issue.
On 3. Buying barriers to set up four Smoking areas costs. There might be some at the club now but I don't know.
Bigger cost would be stewards x four. Yes, "they all stand around all day" but they don't. They have to stand where they are told to meet the licence for the Stadium so extra stewards would be needed.
So how do YOU take it forward - because it is going to have to be YOU as the Off-it option of getting the Ball Boys to do it (only joking, Offy) won't work.
Would any of YOU volunteer to Steward a smoking area in your stand for 20 mins every game. You'd have to set it up and close it down and maybe do some training as well (yes, stewards are regulated and have to be trained so no more jokes please).
you'd do it for free but you'd get a nice day-glo jacket and the chance to have a fag.
Might not work, might be that the hurdles are too high to jump but either YOU try or we have yet another thread on smoking at the Valley.
I don't have a problem with an area being allocated (although I wouldn't want money taken away from the team to pay for it) I just think there should be no debate about smoking in the toilets. The club should enforce the ban.
but the way football fans are treated in the country is scandleous
what Derby done for away fans was nothing short of magic and i would like to see us replicate that make Charlton a ground away fans want to come to would increase the gate imo
and as for home fans would it really be so difficult to create a section outside the nth, east and west i dont think so
I thought the banning of smoking in stadiums was an FA, Premier League and Football League decision rather than it being actually enshrined within the laws the government passed?
As for the cost of setting up external smoking areas...it's some fencing that costs sod all that can be moved around and 1 steward per area is needed if there are no stewards available at half time from the existing pool.
I meant on the terrace and in the unenclosed areas, such as the concourses behind your main stand, by Seed etc. I thought it was a football decision to ban smoking inside grounds....just like it was a transport authority decision to ban smoking on train platforms.
My mate at work says this all the time to justify his smoking. Found out he's been smoking duty-frees for the last few years! :-)
The club should begin to enforce the law with the help of the relevant authorities. Tough love etc.
Some people very close to me have been battling cancer (not smoking related cancer) for the past couple of years. Some have beaten it and others not so lucky but went down fighting to their last breath. Smokers know all the risks associated with smoking so to flout the law and have such disregard for non-smokers (as well a dis-regard for their own health) makes me sick. I've got a good mind to call the council and police myself next home game.
Smoking is banned in all indoor public places. This includes restaurants, pubs, theaters, cinemas, clubs and work spaces. Smoking is banned on all public transport and on railway platforms. Even though these platforms are often not indoors, they are regarded as being "substantially enclosed," and so smoking remains illegal. The same rule applies to other substantially enclosed places such as football stadiums and outdoor sports arenas.
Read more: UK Smoking Rules | eHow.co.uk http://www.ehow.co.uk/list_6600493_uk-smoking-rules.html#ixzz0xby00rNd
but i dont want an inside one H i want an outside one like they gave us at derby
or did derby break the law and those cozzers just stand by and watch
This says different?
http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/faq/vehicles.html
"Can you smoke on train platforms?
No. The Association of Train Operator Companies (ATOC) and Network Rail has introduced a comprehensive smokefree policy throughout at all 1,900 railway stations in England as well as railway offices - station offices, canteens and workplace areas which are covered by the legislation. Because of this policy, smoking is prohibited on all station concourses, ticket halls, on platforms - covered and uncovered - and footbridges and subways at station premises. Retail and food outlets are also required to be smokefree. However, smoking will still be permitted on most station forecourts and in (uncovered) station car parks. No-smoking signs will indicate which areas are smokefree. If you are in doubt, ask a member of staff."
States that it is policy to prohibit smoking on platforms because of legislation covering all other areas.
So that's why I thought football stadiums took the same view on making the entire ground non-smoking even when there are big open areas because of the legislation covering concourses, toilets etc.
No, cos that was outside the confines of the stadium where as, for example, the open concourse behind the East Stand (where the real fans sit) is open air but inside the confines of the stadium.
Same as the Spanner says above. Train station car parks and forecourts are outside the station but platforms are inside.
Any way you lot, stop arguing technical points on here, DO SOMETHING FFS.
I don't care as I don't smoke and no one smokes in the East Stand bogs as we are "proper" Charlton but if you want to change things get on to John.little@cafc.co.uk who is the safety officer and top bloke and find a way forward.
I noticed no one has volunteered to steward an outside smoking area. Come on, where are you? Money, mouth, put in same place.
you cant have me stewarding i am normally drunk
was a great day out though B wasnt it and it will always put Derby on a must do away day for me i am sure Richard or one of the dircetors could find out easily
im an occasional smoker but i shouted at a man this morning who lit up walking up a side this morning as his smoke hit my face as i was walking behind him. Disgusting. I had to help a woman who was having an asthma attack in the same road last week as the same thing happened to her being caught by a walker full in the face with their smoke.
But jesus why cant we congregate at the back of the east stand - id move there and pay extra money to the club!!