Its got to be Fortune, i like Dailly but he cant have long left in him now and we need to be thinking about building a stable team to compete in this league over the course of a few seasons like Leeds had to. It would be a disaster if we failed to get promoted this year again, and then had to do a complete re-build all over again.
[cite]Posted By: mart77[/cite]I would add that I wouldn't mind seeing Fortune, Dailly and Doherty with Jackson and Solly/RB bombing up the wings.
I would certainly look into this if i was PP. With very little winger & full back options 3-5-2 (or 5-3-2) might be the way to go.
I'm sure we'll sign a winger or two. Parky has always played with a back four and I can't see that changing. It's a lot of work for the wide players, probably one of the main reasons not many sides play 3-5-2 or similar any more.
Whilst i agree we may sign a couple of wide players, are they going to be better than what we have in centre midfield. What i mean is we have Jackson, Semedo, Racon, Mac, Stav. Thats some decent talent at this level. Playing three of those in midfield would strengthen the side imo. I know PP likes playing 4 at the back but i wouldnt mind him becoming more versatile to suit our better players. Even if he gives it 20-25 minutes in a friendly.
Fortune for me (and Dailly if Llera goes). I think we can run with three centre-halves plus a utility man. What happened to Matt Fry ? Can cover centre half and full back and can't see him getting a look in at West Ham.
His leadership on the field (even when Bailey was captain), organisational skills, and calm distribution was vital last season. Lack of pace if exposed when opponents are counter attacking is his weak point, but that should invariably be compensated by team mates.
Don't underestimate what Dailly brings to the dressing room - last season he was very much looked up to and hugely influential, a factor definitely appreciated by the management team.
Fortune is a very good 2nd ball CB, calm and composed most of the time, and brings pace and quick feet to the back 4.
Apart from a handful of games as a very young player on loan at Mansfield, he's played only in the top 2 divisions, mostly in the Prem - he's now vastly experienced. A quality defender at this level, but not a leader in the way that Dailly has proven himself to be.
If the budget is there, IMO it would be a great move to sign them both.
He has come home with his tail between his legs. We should be opening our arms like a parent accepting her grown son back after his new girlfriend has kicked him out.
Doc and fortune would if injury free be one of the best cb partnerships in league one, both have played premiere league football and would compliment each other, with dailly as back up if we have the funds.
[cite]Posted By: Stebo[/cite]we need four centre backs really. would be happy with Doc, Fortune, Dailly and Lleara
There's 4 x CB's, aged 30 and over! ....... but a huge amount of experience, let alone 2 internationals and 3 with substantial Prem experience! But Fortune appears to be the only one with quick feet.
We also know that Dailly has a quick brain and the organisational skills. Llera has bravery, a silky1st touch and can hit a killer long pass occasionally - but lacks pace, and liable to mentally lose the plot once in a while!
The Doc also will put his head in where it hurts and has a determined way of playing, leading by example.
We can also sub-divide into the Doc and Llera being 1st ball CB's, while Fortune and Dailly are 2nd ball CB's.
So we also need to ensure the right balanced pairing is made.
You can never tell in the pre-season how injuries and suspensions can affect the team - so agree with Stebo, that we need 4 CB's. Fortune can also cover at RB ....... he's played there several times before.
dam you fatal lasso error, did write a well thought out comment,
to skim write, we wont offer fortune a deal, as parky stated we called him to come and train not to trial, what he expects and what we would offer would be a million miles apart, what maybe 20% of his original wage with us even when he wasnt considered a starting CB?!
[quote][cite]Posted By: PL54[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: StrikerFirmani[/cite]Fortune for me.
We should have 4 CB for the season really so why not both Dailly Fortune.[/quote]
...because they won't work for buttons[/quote]
I realise that. You are stating the bloody obvious. However Parky has a budget for the whole squads wages so you could have 4 CB and make the allowance for it else where in the squad.
Dailly without a doubt. He is a better player than Fortune. I would consider signing Fortune to be a real gamble considering his injury record. We need to minimize our risks.
Fortune. I've always thought he was a better defender alongside a big solid partner. I'm pretty sure that Doc will provide that and I'd think with those 2 at the back we'd have the best CB pairing in the league.
Dailly for me. I know he's 387 years old but he's still probably one of the fittest players in the division, certainly at CAFC. He's not as quick as Forch but I'd fancy Dailly to be fit and available for more games than Forch.
Needs to be one of them thoughn as they'll make better foils for Doherty's go head/fight anything in sight style. I love Smodje and think he was great for us last season, but he's too similar to Doherty imo to play alongside him regularly.
[cite]Posted By: PL54[/cite]if we need 4 CBs then it a little luxurious to have all 4 seasoned pros - at least one has to be an understudy
I take your point but sorry don't agree. CB's are the spine of the team, a couple of suspensions or injuries and you can expose a weakness if the understudy is to raw. I suppose again it depends on the experience of the under study.
Do people really think that one of Gary Doherty, Christian Dailly or Jonathan Fortune will be happy to be back-up at this level? Not a chance.
Think some people are underating Fortune really, he's mobile, good in the air and can read the game, not amazing at one particular bit of his game but with all those together, he'd be one of the top few centre backs in the division, especially as people were so desperate for Mkandawire. Much more of a Championship centre back should we get there as well.
Dailly was fantastic but Doherty can be the dominant in the air leader with the quicker Fortune covering up for him, has all the makings of one of the best centre back partnerships of the division.
Doc, Fortune, Llera, Mambo with Basey and Semedo who can play there would do.
Another factor should be whether these experienced pros pass on knowledge to the kids coming through. As the kids are our only long term hope. I would take Dailly as the elder statesman over Fortune.
[cite]Posted By: PL54[/cite]if we need 4 CBs then it a little luxurious to have all 4 seasoned pros - at least one has to be an understudy
I take your point but sorry don't agree. CB's are the spine of the team, a couple of suspensions or injuries and you can expose a weakness if the understudy is to raw. I suppose again it depends on the experience of the under study.
Fortune can also play RB if necessary as cover.
But would you rather sign a 4th centre back OR an extra striker/winger, given that we have Semedo, Basey and Youga who can act as 4th choice centre back in an emergency. We wouldn't need 2 centre backs on the bench. I think this is what it boils down to, as Scoham pointed out on the previous page. How many times did we need that 4th choice centre back last year? I think Semedo played there at Brentford away and Swindon at home after Llera was sent off, and we would've needed to use one before Sam Sodje signed. But I don't recall many more times than that.
I have always liked Jon Fortune and regularly defended him on here when others have slagged him off. However how well has he recovered from that ruptured achilles tendon? He hasn't had a lot of football since so can he do a whole season?
Dailly was immense last season on the field and, from what one reads and hears, off it too. However, although a consumate professional, he is 37 so can we expect a full season from him? As far as I am concerned he surpassed expectations last season.
I think I lean to Dailly but ask me in an hour or so and I'll probably say Fortune!
EDIT: I've assumed we can only take one. If possible I'd sign both.
I liked Sam Sodje but with the Doc and Llera, plus the other two, he is the one to miss out for me.
Comments
Whilst i agree we may sign a couple of wide players, are they going to be better than what we have in centre midfield. What i mean is we have Jackson, Semedo, Racon, Mac, Stav. Thats some decent talent at this level. Playing three of those in midfield would strengthen the side imo. I know PP likes playing 4 at the back but i wouldnt mind him becoming more versatile to suit our better players. Even if he gives it 20-25 minutes in a friendly.
Dailly - well we all know what he is capable of.
Sodje - IMO the weakest of the lot defensively BUT the best offensively.
If we had all 3 along with Llera we'd have a very solid bunch of centre backs as Basey and Semedo can fill in if required too
If I could only have one i'd say Fortune if he proves fitness, then Dailly, then Sodje
I think Doherty could be better than Sodje when it comes to getting goals.
His leadership on the field (even when Bailey was captain), organisational skills, and calm distribution was vital last season. Lack of pace if exposed when opponents are counter attacking is his weak point, but that should invariably be compensated by team mates.
Don't underestimate what Dailly brings to the dressing room - last season he was very much looked up to and hugely influential, a factor definitely appreciated by the management team.
Fortune is a very good 2nd ball CB, calm and composed most of the time, and brings pace and quick feet to the back 4.
Apart from a handful of games as a very young player on loan at Mansfield, he's played only in the top 2 divisions, mostly in the Prem - he's now vastly experienced. A quality defender at this level, but not a leader in the way that Dailly has proven himself to be.
If the budget is there, IMO it would be a great move to sign them both.
He has come home with his tail between his legs. We should be opening our arms like a parent accepting her grown son back after his new girlfriend has kicked him out.
We should have 4 CB for the season really so why not both Dailly Fortune.
There's 4 x CB's, aged 30 and over! ....... but a huge amount of experience, let alone 2 internationals and 3 with substantial Prem experience! But Fortune appears to be the only one with quick feet.
We also know that Dailly has a quick brain and the organisational skills. Llera has bravery, a silky1st touch and can hit a killer long pass occasionally - but lacks pace, and liable to mentally lose the plot once in a while!
The Doc also will put his head in where it hurts and has a determined way of playing, leading by example.
We can also sub-divide into the Doc and Llera being 1st ball CB's, while Fortune and Dailly are 2nd ball CB's.
So we also need to ensure the right balanced pairing is made.
You can never tell in the pre-season how injuries and suspensions can affect the team - so agree with Stebo, that we need 4 CB's. Fortune can also cover at RB ....... he's played there several times before.
...because they won't work for buttons
to skim write, we wont offer fortune a deal, as parky stated we called him to come and train not to trial, what he expects and what we would offer would be a million miles apart, what maybe 20% of his original wage with us even when he wasnt considered a starting CB?!
We should have 4 CB for the season really so why not both Dailly Fortune.[/quote]
...because they won't work for buttons[/quote]
I realise that. You are stating the bloody obvious. However Parky has a budget for the whole squads wages so you could have 4 CB and make the allowance for it else where in the squad.
Needs to be one of them thoughn as they'll make better foils for Doherty's go head/fight anything in sight style. I love Smodje and think he was great for us last season, but he's too similar to Doherty imo to play alongside him regularly.
I take your point but sorry don't agree. CB's are the spine of the team, a couple of suspensions or injuries and you can expose a weakness if the understudy is to raw. I suppose again it depends on the experience of the under study.
Fortune can also play RB if necessary as cover.
Think some people are underating Fortune really, he's mobile, good in the air and can read the game, not amazing at one particular bit of his game but with all those together, he'd be one of the top few centre backs in the division, especially as people were so desperate for Mkandawire. Much more of a Championship centre back should we get there as well.
Dailly was fantastic but Doherty can be the dominant in the air leader with the quicker Fortune covering up for him, has all the makings of one of the best centre back partnerships of the division.
Doc, Fortune, Llera, Mambo with Basey and Semedo who can play there would do.
But would you rather sign a 4th centre back OR an extra striker/winger, given that we have Semedo, Basey and Youga who can act as 4th choice centre back in an emergency. We wouldn't need 2 centre backs on the bench. I think this is what it boils down to, as Scoham pointed out on the previous page. How many times did we need that 4th choice centre back last year? I think Semedo played there at Brentford away and Swindon at home after Llera was sent off, and we would've needed to use one before Sam Sodje signed. But I don't recall many more times than that.
I have always liked Jon Fortune and regularly defended him on here when others have slagged him off. However how well has he recovered from that ruptured achilles tendon? He hasn't had a lot of football since so can he do a whole season?
Dailly was immense last season on the field and, from what one reads and hears, off it too. However, although a consumate professional, he is 37 so can we expect a full season from him? As far as I am concerned he surpassed expectations last season.
I think I lean to Dailly but ask me in an hour or so and I'll probably say Fortune!
EDIT: I've assumed we can only take one. If possible I'd sign both.
I liked Sam Sodje but with the Doc and Llera, plus the other two, he is the one to miss out for me.
The other possibility is that Fortune and Doherty might be usable as a backup striker, if we want a targetman.