To give a little background you may not be aware of.
There has been a running theme on this forum for a long time that you are not a "proper fan" unless you travel away. It is in the context of that I have made my comments.
My personal view is that there is no such thing as a "proper fan" we are all individuals and do what we like. There are some though who criticise other fans because their behaviour is not what they want and accuse them of not being "proper."
Our club is skint so I simply voiced the view that it would be better to help the club financially by going to home games rather than line the coffers of other clubs and that one should not feel one is not a "proper fan," as explained, by doing that.
Fair do's....am aware of the real v johhny come lately Charlton debate...as you say, there is no such thing as a "proper fan" in general.
Therefore to support the team it is necessary to support the club.
By the same token, if there is no team, there is no club.
We need fans home and away, neither fan is less important than the other to suggest so in my opinion is stupid.
At the end of the day, as a fan, I go to games to watch the team I support and love, not to put £15/20 into the club, that's not really my concern is it. Nor is it my concern if my 15/20 is going to another club, they bring fans to us in return anyway, so it all works out.
Maybe if a few more fans had got off their lazy arses last year maybe we would have gone up, maybe a few hundred fans here and there would have spurred the team on to get that 3 extra points, shame we'll never know eh.
At the end of the day, a few match tickets here and there are not going to make a difference to the club, now going to games (including away) and getting behind the team and spurring them onto victory will do far more for the finances of the club than sitting in the west stand a few times a year drinking your bovril.
Stu,
I think my reply to Sparrows Lane Lion pretty well covers it.
But nobody else brought up this "proper fan" nonsence, apart from you, when you dug out Mike for bothering to travel the country supporting his team. (just because you put in there that you wasnt digging him out, doesnt change the fact that's exactly what you was doing)
[cite]Posted By: Stu of HU5[/cite]But nobody else brought up this "proper fan" nonsence, apart from you, when you dug out Mike for bothering to travel the country supporting his team. (just because you put in there that you wasnt digging him out, doesnt change the fact that's exactly what you was doing)
ooh ah brings it up at least once a week if not more!
Others also say frequently that you are not a proper fan unless you get drunk and then stand all match and hurl abuse at anybody who might actually want to make use of the seat he or she has paid for. The fallout from Gillingham away being a good example.
I am simply responding in kind.
I was not digging Mike out. It is an opinion I have also expressed elsewhere on another thread that if people are choosing matches then choose home games because Charlton gets the money. Mike's post lent itself to a repeat. That is all!
Someone like yourself obviously can't get to all the home games for geographical reasons so let me make it crystal clear that I am not "digging out" you or others in a similar position!
I can help thinking that, with everything going on at the moment, we need to treat threads like this with a huge degree of cynism. Same thing with Dave Webb the other day (whatever happened to him???). If people want to come on here and start winding things up FFS don't give them the satisfaction of biting and THEN going off at tangents and lashing out at each other.
Things are bad enough around here without Lifers fighting amongst each other because of a WUM.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: D_F_T[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]Charlton settle in the 3rd division and wonder where 16,000 fans have vanished too in a few years.[/quote]
One thing that IS for sure, they won't have gone to your shithole![/quote]
Of course they wouldn't! They've all gone back to watching the original teams they supported (United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham) since you got relegated from the Prem.[/quote]Watching being the key word, it's either that or they've got season tickets at Fulham.
[cite]Posted By: Sparrows Lane Lion[/cite]
Of course they wouldn't! They've all gone back to watching the original teams they supported (United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham) since you got relegated from the Prem.
What is a Proper fan? I now reside in Australia, have done for over 17 years and so am unable to attend any matches. I did get down to the valley, and selhurst when i lived in England.
However I am a valley gold member with a few others, as well as a kit sponsor, again with help from a few others. It's all I can afford, and we receive nothing from the club, not even a thank you from the sponsored player, yet I'll be doing the same again this season. There are others over here who cannot financially commit any money, yet they consider themselves Charlton through and through.
We don't have the enjoyment of match days, of seeing the lads play, being down the pub for pregame warm ups, and we only rely on match reports from other supporters on here and other sites to gauge what is happening at Charlton. We receive nothing for our support, Yet we continue to follow passionately.
We get just as despondent as you all with the perceived state of the club, feel the highs of winning, and lows of defeat.
How are we different from any other charlton supporters? We love there club as much as ST holders/ away supporters. In fact not supporting a premier league club is a rare here, and the stick we sometimes receive is tiresome.
You can support the club in many ways but mainly financially (home games, ideally with a season ticket) and vocally at games. At present, money going into the club is what's needed so i agree with Len Glover that if you were being totally unselfish and just wanted the best for the club, you'd pile your money into a home season ticket rather than away tickets, travel etc. It's a bit rich Sparrow giving it large about our fairweather's dissapearing. They've got the biggest fairweather support in the league - bar none. I've had a season ticket for 25 years now and have continued to get one even in the seasons where i've played saturday afternoon football (which i currently do). Sparrow's right. You go football and support the club regardless of what the team dishes up coz if your expecting to be entertained then you're gonna be dissapointed 90% of the time. It's about the laugh with your mates, the sense of community and it's what you do. Home games are the backbone of that. What Sparrow should also accept is their's far more 'proper' Charlton football fans than there are Millwall. 'I used to go but..' ' i'll go to the final if...' etc. Never seen so many crawl out of the woodwork as last year but you know they'll be back in the woodwork by September, which is why they will always be a smaller and less successful club than us.
[cite]Posted By: leftbehind[/cite]A fan is a fan, in any shape, form or mould.
True but some like to think differently
I agree, i havent bought a season ticket for 2 seasons encounting for several reasons which i dont have to explain to people to confirm im proper charlton. I will go as often home or away who we play regardless of who they are, main thing is people go when they can no point shooting someone who prefers to go away or likewise only goes home. personally away games are better atmosphere and i prefer them but last season i think i went to about 6 away and 5 at home, would go to more if finances and had someone to go with sometimes
Have to agree with OZADDICK here.Both myself and the better half have been season ticket holders but due to the distance with live away from The Valley only able to do about 7 home games ayear,we stopped being season ticket holders 12 months ago.Each game we see takes up a whole long weekend always good to come back too your roots and this coming season will still take in about the same number of games.Keith Peacock once said a fan will get out of Charlton what he puts in to it.Well i have been going for 43years and the better half for 13years you put in what you can afford and so be it.What i will say is a Charlton fan is a proud thing to be and i hold my hands up to everybody who goes along too The Valley or supports from afar.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]When you're a long distance fan, you relish every chance to see the team whenever you can.
After all, you've been looking forward to it for weeks.
It's not even a case of being an ST holder and thinking, "Oh, it's only struggling Brighton we're playing tonight, and it's raining.I can't be arsed".
When matches you can get to are few and far between, every Charlton match you see is special !
Spot on Oggy. I'd also add that maybe because you've built it up over the weeks, and then spent time and money getting there, it hurts even more maybe when the team don't perform than someone who might be able to get it out of their system a few days later with a midweek match.
Thanks to all (well nearly all!) for comments on my original postings. Couldn’t reply earlier as have been at work.
Firstly, let’s nail this WUM point. I’m genuinely not – everything I said in my previous postings is true. Very happy to discuss any obscure CAFC topic going back over the last 40 years to prove it. (Here’s one to start with – when CAFC played Reading back in April 96 who were the CAFC players demanding was sent off for elbowing Lee Bowyer in the face?)
As I said in my original posting, been reading this site (and dare I admit the BBC one!) for some time. Got to admit, I’ve never really felt inclined to post before but the sale of Richardson – to Pardew’s lot of all people – just really pi**ed me off (partly because I’d just read we’d signed Doherty and thought that’s a really good signing, only for the next page to say we’d sold Richardson). One step forward, two steps back.
I can understand if some of you think my original message was a wind-up. But after the last 5 years of watching total c**p (for the most part), I think this finally flipped me over the edge! But as some of you have said, I’m sure my season ticket will stay in my pocket even though my head tells me just to pick and choose the games I watch next season.
Richard Murray said we would have a “competitive” team next year. I’m sorry but I just don’t see how you can have a competitive team if you don’t retain a hard core of experienced players. (Look at when the club was completely broke and playing at West Ham -we still had a hard core of great pros eg Bolder, Peake, Lee, Nelson, Walsh, Bumstead, Gatting). I’ve no problems with selling Bailey, or with little Lloyd wanting to go off to Leeds (I’ll drive him up there myself), or with Deon really thinking that earning a few extra quid a week at Notts County is a good carreer move – but I can only say again that I think next year’s team should have been built around a core of existing players such as Richardson, Dailly & Semedo. Instead I fear we’re going to end with a team comprised of new players (who will inevitably take time to settle, especially if they’re living in a hotel with their family elsewhere), young kids (who are bound to have a dip in form some time during the season) and loanees. I’m not sure how competitive that is going to be.
Won’t say anymore on this thread but hope to contribute on others as we go forward to prove once and for all I’m really a Charlton fan – even if an unhappy one at the moment!
[cite]Posted By: Fortune 82nd Minute[/cite](Look at when the club was completely broke and playing at West Ham -we still had a hard core of great pros eg Bolder, Peake, Lee, Nelson, Walsh, Bumstead, Gatting).
Right, you're in then, Mr Fortune......... even if you forgot the legendary Carlo !!
Funnily enough, despite being disappointed to lose key members of last season's team ...... I'm feeling not too despondent.
Parky seems more often than not a good judge of a player's character and whether he'd fit into the team - like Lennie and Curbs before him. And he seems to be well connected on the management and player circuit, and seems able to attract a decent calibre of player.
There's more players to come, no doubt ....... it'll be interesting to see who he picks up in the next few weeks.
I've got a feeling we might be in for a better season than most of us are currently expecting!
I am as disappointed by Richardson going as anyone else but we know the score and £450,000 is money we can't refuse at the moment (think 1,000 season tickets). I am renewing three season tickets tomorrow, one for five years. Now's the time to get behind the club. If you can't take any more, then that's your choice but have the decency to go quietly and not annoy the rest of us who will never give up.
[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]It's a bit rich Sparrow giving it large about our fairweather's dissapearing. They've got the biggest fairweather support in the league - bar none.
Are you saying that your average crowd of say 13k next season won't sell 35k+ tickets in the play off final should you get there? Our entire Millwall support in the world is probably something like 80,000 or so (completely guessing!), why wouldn't as many as possible get along to a very rare (but it's becoming more common!) appearance at Wembley? Why would my dad who went from the early 60's through to the early 80's (when 3 kids arrived, wife and mortgage) stay buried in the woodwork and not go to Wembley when he has just as much right to be there as I did?
[cite]Posted By: Bexley Dan[/cite]What Sparrow should also accept is their's far more 'proper' Charlton football fans than there are Millwall. 'I used to go but..' ' i'll go to the final if...' etc. Never seen so many crawl out of the woodwork as last year but you know they'll be back in the woodwork by September, which is why they will always be a smaller and less successful club than us.
Er...I've said plenty of times and almost all Millwall fans are of a similar opinion....you have a bigger hardcore support than us, or what you describe as "proper" fans.
Am I supposed to be affected by that fact? "Oooo, my club is bigger than your club, ner ner ner ner"....don't be so silly Dan. We are who we are, generally a lower 2nd/high 3rd division team, sometimes worse, sometimes (but not often) better than that! I'm not gonna ditch my family & friends and become a Charlton fan because you have more fans than us and have been more successful!
We keep getting told these days how football is a business, but nobody expects the fans to act like it is. Our role is to 'support' the team, buy a season ticket with no guarantee of the product quality, stay to the end of the game however rubbish it is. I wouldn't do that for any other part of the entertainment industry and I see no reason why football should be different. A lot of the football I saw last season was diabolical, even when we won. I expect it will be worse this year. I got a season ticket again, mainly to keep in touch with people I otherwise wouldn't see, but I won't argue with anyone who decides otherwise.
It's very noble to be a wind-and-rain supporter I suppose but it is also this attitude, and the acceptance of it as being the correct behaviour, that allows football in this country to rip fans off. We're mug punters.
And as for the 'you must be a new supporter if you think this is bad' line, how long ago was it this bad exactly? I haven't checked - 30 years? More? Even the back to the Valley stuff is 20 years ago - you have to be middle aged now for that to have much personal meaning for you.
And as for the 'you must be a new supporter if you think this is bad' line, how long ago was it this bad exactly? I haven't checked - 30 years? More? Even the back to the Valley stuff is 20 years ago - you have to be middle aged now for that to have much personal meaning for you.
Sparrows - your comments are correct. Nobody is arguing. You do have the biggest fair weather support in the league and there's no reason why lapsed supporters shouldn't go to a final. You also probably now have the least 'local' support in the league. Unfortunately for Millwall you are hemmed in location wise by us, Palace and West Ham and therefore will always remain a small club. No shame in that but it may be wrong to assume that all our prem fairweather supporters are really Arsenal, Liverpool and man u fans. We had a lot of lapsed support over the 30 years we were in decline since the days we genuinely could have been described as having a big support. The prem years saw the 'reclaiming' of a lot of that support and the likes of Millwall, Palace and gillingham like to cling onto the fact that they are all plastics and not real Charlton fans but the fact is they are as much Charlton fans as the lot who attach themselves to you when you get to a Wembley final. Problem for you is if you ever made it to the prem, your's will only go to the odd game.
I went to that Game aginst Reading and i am sure it was the manager of the local mcDonalds who ran on the pitch and elbowed Bowyer.
No Sorry it was Parky its just that he should be managing at McDonalds not us
I think the fellas first post was a brave and geniune attempt to put his ponit of view across
However
All of you who caned him for were right to do so if you felt that way stop pussy footing around eachother say what you feel as long as it aint agressive, threatening or abusive you dont have to be so appologetic.
The club needs all the season ticket money it can get. Throwing your toys out of the pram because you were daft enough not to know this was coming isn't going to help the club, and isn't going to make him feel better either on a poxy November Saturday afternoon when he's traipsing round Ikea with the missus instead of where he belongs - at The Valley.... Leroy Ambrose
In fairness I was 'going' to renew my season ticket.... but Leroy's point of view as stated above put it into the right perspecive, never been easy supporting Charlton, probably never will be we can all find excuses but feel now is the time to support the club once more, by commiting myself to buying a season ticket again, which I did last week.......and anyway the DIY can wait!
Comments
Stu,
I think my reply to Sparrows Lane Lion pretty well covers it.
ooh ah brings it up at least once a week if not more!
Others also say frequently that you are not a proper fan unless you get drunk and then stand all match and hurl abuse at anybody who might actually want to make use of the seat he or she has paid for. The fallout from Gillingham away being a good example.
I am simply responding in kind.
I was not digging Mike out. It is an opinion I have also expressed elsewhere on another thread that if people are choosing matches then choose home games because Charlton gets the money. Mike's post lent itself to a repeat. That is all!
Someone like yourself obviously can't get to all the home games for geographical reasons so let me make it crystal clear that I am not "digging out" you or others in a similar position!
Things are bad enough around here without Lifers fighting amongst each other because of a WUM.
One thing that IS for sure, they won't have gone to your shithole![/quote]
Of course they wouldn't! They've all gone back to watching the original teams they supported (United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham) since you got relegated from the Prem.[/quote]Watching being the key word, it's either that or they've got season tickets at Fulham.
I now reside in Australia, have done for over 17 years and so am unable to attend any matches. I did get down to the valley, and selhurst when i lived in England.
However I am a valley gold member with a few others, as well as a kit sponsor, again with help from a few others.
It's all I can afford, and we receive nothing from the club, not even a thank you from the sponsored player, yet I'll be doing the same again this season.
There are others over here who cannot financially commit any money, yet they consider themselves Charlton through and through.
We don't have the enjoyment of match days, of seeing the lads play, being down the pub for pregame warm ups, and we only rely on match reports from other supporters on here and other sites to gauge what is happening at Charlton. We receive nothing for our support, Yet we continue to follow passionately.
We get just as despondent as you all with the perceived state of the club, feel the highs of winning, and lows of defeat.
How are we different from any other charlton supporters? We love there club as much as ST holders/ away supporters. In fact not supporting a premier league club is a rare here, and the stick we sometimes receive is tiresome.
A fan is a fan, in any shape, form or mould.
True but some like to think differently
I agree, i havent bought a season ticket for 2 seasons encounting for several reasons which i dont have to explain to people to confirm im proper charlton. I will go as often home or away who we play regardless of who they are, main thing is people go when they can no point shooting someone who prefers to go away or likewise only goes home. personally away games are better atmosphere and i prefer them but last season i think i went to about 6 away and 5 at home, would go to more if finances and had someone to go with sometimes
After all, you've been looking forward to it for weeks.
It's not even a case of being an ST holder and thinking, "Oh, it's only struggling Brighton we're playing tonight, and it's raining.I can't be arsed".
When matches you can get to are few and far between, every Charlton match you see is special !
Spot on Oggy. I'd also add that maybe because you've built it up over the weeks, and then spent time and money getting there, it hurts even more maybe when the team don't perform than someone who might be able to get it out of their system a few days later with a midweek match.
Firstly, let’s nail this WUM point. I’m genuinely not – everything I said in my previous postings is true. Very happy to discuss any obscure CAFC topic going back over the last 40 years to prove it. (Here’s one to start with – when CAFC played Reading back in April 96 who were the CAFC players demanding was sent off for elbowing Lee Bowyer in the face?)
As I said in my original posting, been reading this site (and dare I admit the BBC one!) for some time. Got to admit, I’ve never really felt inclined to post before but the sale of Richardson – to Pardew’s lot of all people – just really pi**ed me off (partly because I’d just read we’d signed Doherty and thought that’s a really good signing, only for the next page to say we’d sold Richardson). One step forward, two steps back.
I can understand if some of you think my original message was a wind-up. But after the last 5 years of watching total c**p (for the most part), I think this finally flipped me over the edge! But as some of you have said, I’m sure my season ticket will stay in my pocket even though my head tells me just to pick and choose the games I watch next season.
Richard Murray said we would have a “competitive” team next year. I’m sorry but I just don’t see how you can have a competitive team if you don’t retain a hard core of experienced players. (Look at when the club was completely broke and playing at West Ham -we still had a hard core of great pros eg Bolder, Peake, Lee, Nelson, Walsh, Bumstead, Gatting). I’ve no problems with selling Bailey, or with little Lloyd wanting to go off to Leeds (I’ll drive him up there myself), or with Deon really thinking that earning a few extra quid a week at Notts County is a good carreer move – but I can only say again that I think next year’s team should have been built around a core of existing players such as Richardson, Dailly & Semedo. Instead I fear we’re going to end with a team comprised of new players (who will inevitably take time to settle, especially if they’re living in a hotel with their family elsewhere), young kids (who are bound to have a dip in form some time during the season) and loanees. I’m not sure how competitive that is going to be.
Won’t say anymore on this thread but hope to contribute on others as we go forward to prove once and for all I’m really a Charlton fan – even if an unhappy one at the moment!
Right, you're in then, Mr Fortune......... even if you forgot the legendary Carlo !!
Funnily enough, despite being disappointed to lose key members of last season's team ...... I'm feeling not too despondent.
Parky seems more often than not a good judge of a player's character and whether he'd fit into the team - like Lennie and Curbs before him. And he seems to be well connected on the management and player circuit, and seems able to attract a decent calibre of player.
There's more players to come, no doubt ....... it'll be interesting to see who he picks up in the next few weeks.
I've got a feeling we might be in for a better season than most of us are currently expecting!
Are you saying that your average crowd of say 13k next season won't sell 35k+ tickets in the play off final should you get there? Our entire Millwall support in the world is probably something like 80,000 or so (completely guessing!), why wouldn't as many as possible get along to a very rare (but it's becoming more common!) appearance at Wembley? Why would my dad who went from the early 60's through to the early 80's (when 3 kids arrived, wife and mortgage) stay buried in the woodwork and not go to Wembley when he has just as much right to be there as I did?
Er...I've said plenty of times and almost all Millwall fans are of a similar opinion....you have a bigger hardcore support than us, or what you describe as "proper" fans.
Am I supposed to be affected by that fact? "Oooo, my club is bigger than your club, ner ner ner ner"....don't be so silly Dan. We are who we are, generally a lower 2nd/high 3rd division team, sometimes worse, sometimes (but not often) better than that! I'm not gonna ditch my family & friends and become a Charlton fan because you have more fans than us and have been more successful!
It's very noble to be a wind-and-rain supporter I suppose but it is also this attitude, and the acceptance of it as being the correct behaviour, that allows football in this country to rip fans off. We're mug punters.
And as for the 'you must be a new supporter if you think this is bad' line, how long ago was it this bad exactly? I haven't checked - 30 years? More? Even the back to the Valley stuff is 20 years ago - you have to be middle aged now for that to have much personal meaning for you.
Me, middle aged? (Looks in mirror). Doh!
Oh & Sparrow, do go & play with the traffic. No excuse for you to be here now. Ta ta!
Supporting Charlton has been a lot more interesting than supporting W H Smith & Sons or Boots the Chemist.
And I've been going to all of them for about the same length of time.
No Sorry it was Parky its just that he should be managing at McDonalds not us
I think the fellas first post was a brave and geniune attempt to put his ponit of view across
However
All of you who caned him for were right to do so if you felt that way stop pussy footing around eachother say what you feel as long as it aint agressive, threatening or abusive you dont have to be so appologetic.
In fairness I was 'going' to renew my season ticket.... but Leroy's point of view as stated above put it into the right perspecive, never been easy supporting Charlton, probably never will be we can all find excuses but feel now is the time to support the club once more, by commiting myself to buying a season ticket again, which I did last week.......and anyway the DIY can wait!