As it so expensive to open the stadium to host a football match, why not shut it on matchdays and play our home games at Park View Road - policing that with its 5000 capacity should save enough money............we can keep the ground open for corporate events though, as they wont need policing and will bring in extra revenue.
Just to set this decision in context of where we are financially here are AFC Bournemouths pre-season fixtures (all at home):
Spurs
Fulham
Derby County
Portsmouth
That's a very respectable list IMO but if you consider Bournemouth have been the very definition of a financial road crash, the fact that even they can afford to entertain that lot does raise some very worrying questions about us not being able to play just one off that list.
Bournemouth is a totally different scenario though, not only will they have a much lower 'running cost' for a match day but policing would be less (not a London derby) plus all of those teams will take more away fans down to a Bournemouth, for a night out/weekend on the town, than they would take for the tour of the cherry orchard.
Both would have totally different costs and incomes, so not a fair comparison at all imo.
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]Ok, so I'm wrong.
As it so expensive to open the stadium to host a football match, why not shut it on matchdays and play our home games at Park View Road - policing that with its 5000 capacity should save enough money............we can keep the ground open for corporate events though, as they wont need policing and will bring in extra revenue.
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]Ok, so I'm wrong.
As it so expensive to open the stadium to host a football match, why not shut it on matchdays and play our home games at Park View Road - policing that with its 5000 capacity should save enough money............we can keep the ground open for corporate events though, as they wont need policing and will bring in extra revenue.
Mate, my view comes from bitter experience. We built our ground in 1993 in expectation of challenging and then gaining promotion to the newly formed premier league. We almost made it. 3 years later we got relegated. With an overpaid and largely useless squad.
We went from a team geared towards challenging to promotion to the "promised land" to then finding ourselves overcommitted on & off the pitch in the 3rd division.
In 1997 we then went into administration. A quote at the time, from either a fanzine or Reg Burr, was this, "the ground has become a millstone around the clubs neck". It's expensive to run, it was difficult to fill and it ate into our revenue.
Does it sounds familiar at all? You've got a ground geared towards premier league football, the infrastructure at the club is likely to still be bloated to deal with premier league/first division football, the ground cannot be cheap to run, staff or steward and with falling attendances your margins are ever more squeezed.
It's a horrible situation and one that's really affecting you as you've dropped down 2 divisions so quickly. Leeds suffered, Southampton suffered, Sheff Wed suffered, Notts Forest suffered..they either went into administration or faced serious financial difficulties.
Cloth will have to be cut accordingly and for fans like you that have been used to the "big time" for a decent length of time I'm sure it's a big culture shock. It may well be a tough few years. BUT, give it 2 years, some strong sensible financial management and it can be rectified and you'll start to see a team come together and on the rise again. Whether that's back to the premier league may be pushing it, but you'll be back in the championship before long.
what I don't understand is if Bournemouth can play Spurs at home and make a profit, and in their position they can't take a loss, why can't we ? If it really is the case we'd lose money on this then I agree with the decision. What sort of crowd would we have got ? I expect around the 20k mark as long as we gave Spurs fans a larger allocation that the Jimmy Seed.
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]but more importantly, showing off your new acqusitions to the faithful.
I wouldn't bank on 10,000. Our pre-season crowds are usually distorted by freebies issued at summer shows. Plus I don't think the police would allow more than 3k Spurs, even if that was likely.
I have a feeling we have to pay 100 per cent police costs on friendlies as well.
Would anyone be excited by the prospect of playing Spurs, never mind their youth team? Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, maybe. Man City possibly. But Spurs? Not me anyway, and as long as enough people think in the same way as me, then that means it's probably the correct decision by the board.
Large, Stu answers your questions about Bournemouth.
Is it correct that unless we close stands down, we have to maintain the same level of match day staff an security staff in Division Three that we have for the 'Premiership'?
We are in a situation (it seems), that we can have X list celebs running about our pitch but not Premiership football teams?
didn't we play spurs in a pre season at the valley in the 90's ??
i'm sure they filled the jimmy seed stand that day and if we played em now they'd bring 4-5k if allowed
Airman is correct when he says we have to pay HIGHER police costs for a friendly than a league game when we will get a lower gate, charge lower prices and so get lower income. As a London derby it would, I guess, have to be a high category ie level of risk game as well.
We still have to pay for stewards etc and as said that has hardly changed since Prem days.
Bournemouth have a much smaller stadium so lower over heads and a different council and police force so it is impossible to make a direct comparison.
In any care Ketman has cast doubt on the accuracy of this story and assuming his source is the one I think it is then you have to take this with a pinch of salt.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]didn't we play spurs in a pre season at the valley in the 90's ??
i'm sure they filled the jimmy seed stand that day and if we played em now they'd bring 4-5k if allowed
Colin Walsh's Testimonial, it was either beginning of 95/96 or 96/97. Lost 3-1, Chris Armstrong spat at the Covered End and was substututed on the ref's instructions for his own safety. Crowd was about 10,500 and Spurs sold out the Jimmy Seed.
Was different then as we'd never been in the Prem and it was a novelty to have a chance to see top flight "stars". Personally I'd have no interest at the moment in watching us get thrashed by a team who I hate and who we recently used to beat on a regular basis.
The fact that we might make a loss on it makes it a no-brainer - imagine if we staged it and made a £40k loss, based on this morning's news that could be two staff members out of a job.
Will we ever see a Premiership team at The Valley again?
Our cup record is such that we are unlikely to progress to the stage whereby Premiership teams enter competitions and our finances appear to be such that we cannot host a home pre season friendly and have to play away.
Thank you Alan Curbishley for enabling me to see top-class football at The Valley in my lifetime. I appreciated it while it lasted but all good things come to an end.
Well its unlikely looking at the current scenario, BUT just like that things can change...
I couldnt care less... I love charlton adn last season was the best for years for me....
As long as we dont go out of business then im happy, Id like to get into the championship... but truthfully its winning and scoring goals that do it for me....
if thats in League one or the conference or the Prem then so be it, I just like the feeling of a goal going in for us.......
in the last 3 years or so we've had players go to celtic* (zheng zhi), rangers* (bougherra), liverpool (jonjo) and man utd (mcginty).
hindsight is a wonderful thing, but when negotiating these deals couldn't the possibility of friendlies have been discussed, as was the case (i think) when we let dicanio go back to italy .
surely a home friendly with any of them 4 would not run at a loss.
[cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]Is it correct that unless we close stands down, we have to maintain the same level of match day staff an security staff in Division Three that we have for the 'Premiership'?
We are in a situation (it seems), that we can have X list celebs running about our pitch but not Premiership football teams?
Seems nuts to me.
If you open all parts of the ground then you have to put staff at all the points identified in the safety certificate, i.e. exits, gates, vomitories, etc. So to that extent the answer is yes and reasonably so since an unstaffed exit gate is the same potential hazard regardless how many people would need to use it, but . . . with the lower crowds we have in League One and lower numbers of away fans there are much lower numbers of crowd management stewards and lower numbers of police, so overall costs are lower.
You need to bear in mind, however, that the club still has to bear the cost of traffic management and street cleaning regardless of the level of fixture and these were conditioned in the various planning applications since we came back to The Valley. The club and the council have worked together to keep these to a minimum, but these activities would still be required for a friendly against Spurs.
It is not true that there has been any serious consideration of closing parts of the ground for league games since the savings do not stack up against the likely lost revenue. We've probably given it as much consideration as was necessary to establish that.
I can't believe some of the reaction from posters on here. When you go to home games do you watch the opposition, and does the opposition dictate weather you attend or not? Bizarre.
Very strange comments from some, couldn't care a less about Spurs in a pre-season friendly to be honest, I think we have more important issues to be worried about, the next 2-3 weeks are going to be tough, worrying about a pre-season friendly is not top of my priorities at the moment.
[cite]Posted By: CHG[/cite]Very strange comments from some, couldn't care a less about Spurs in a pre-season friendly to be honest, I think we have more important issues to be worried about, the next 2-3 weeks are going to be tough, worrying about a pre-season friendly is not top of my priorities at the moment.
I'm not that bothered either this year but that said cannot help but wonder when (if ever) I will see top level football at The Valley again.
Comments
As it so expensive to open the stadium to host a football match, why not shut it on matchdays and play our home games at Park View Road - policing that with its 5000 capacity should save enough money............we can keep the ground open for corporate events though, as they wont need policing and will bring in extra revenue.
Spurs
Fulham
Derby County
Portsmouth
That's a very respectable list IMO but if you consider Bournemouth have been the very definition of a financial road crash, the fact that even they can afford to entertain that lot does raise some very worrying questions about us not being able to play just one off that list.
Both would have totally different costs and incomes, so not a fair comparison at all imo.
Oh dear, getting more silly now.
Mate, my view comes from bitter experience. We built our ground in 1993 in expectation of challenging and then gaining promotion to the newly formed premier league. We almost made it. 3 years later we got relegated. With an overpaid and largely useless squad.
We went from a team geared towards challenging to promotion to the "promised land" to then finding ourselves overcommitted on & off the pitch in the 3rd division.
In 1997 we then went into administration. A quote at the time, from either a fanzine or Reg Burr, was this, "the ground has become a millstone around the clubs neck". It's expensive to run, it was difficult to fill and it ate into our revenue.
Does it sounds familiar at all? You've got a ground geared towards premier league football, the infrastructure at the club is likely to still be bloated to deal with premier league/first division football, the ground cannot be cheap to run, staff or steward and with falling attendances your margins are ever more squeezed.
It's a horrible situation and one that's really affecting you as you've dropped down 2 divisions so quickly. Leeds suffered, Southampton suffered, Sheff Wed suffered, Notts Forest suffered..they either went into administration or faced serious financial difficulties.
Cloth will have to be cut accordingly and for fans like you that have been used to the "big time" for a decent length of time I'm sure it's a big culture shock. It may well be a tough few years. BUT, give it 2 years, some strong sensible financial management and it can be rectified and you'll start to see a team come together and on the rise again. Whether that's back to the premier league may be pushing it, but you'll be back in the championship before long.
ha ha ha
I have a feeling we have to pay 100 per cent police costs on friendlies as well.
Large, Stu answers your questions about Bournemouth.
2009 Ipswich - 5,100
2008 Athletic Club - 5,600
2007 Sporting Braga - 5,600
2006 New Zealand - 10,200
2005 Feyenoord - 9,000
2005 AEK Athens - 8,100
2004 Chievo - 7,800
We'd have done well to get over 10,000 for any friendly this year wouldn't we?
We are in a situation (it seems), that we can have X list celebs running about our pitch but not Premiership football teams?
Seems nuts to me.
i'm sure they filled the jimmy seed stand that day and if we played em now they'd bring 4-5k if allowed
We still have to pay for stewards etc and as said that has hardly changed since Prem days.
Bournemouth have a much smaller stadium so lower over heads and a different council and police force so it is impossible to make a direct comparison.
In any care Ketman has cast doubt on the accuracy of this story and assuming his source is the one I think it is then you have to take this with a pinch of salt.
Colin Walsh's Testimonial, it was either beginning of 95/96 or 96/97. Lost 3-1, Chris Armstrong spat at the Covered End and was substututed on the ref's instructions for his own safety. Crowd was about 10,500 and Spurs sold out the Jimmy Seed.
Was different then as we'd never been in the Prem and it was a novelty to have a chance to see top flight "stars". Personally I'd have no interest at the moment in watching us get thrashed by a team who I hate and who we recently used to beat on a regular basis.
The fact that we might make a loss on it makes it a no-brainer - imagine if we staged it and made a £40k loss, based on this morning's news that could be two staff members out of a job.
Does anyone really want those p^&%& taunting and laughing at us for 90 minutes while their team dismantle us and at a loss...
No thanks...
and doesnt cost us any money...
Our cup record is such that we are unlikely to progress to the stage whereby Premiership teams enter competitions and our finances appear to be such that we cannot host a home pre season friendly and have to play away.
Thank you Alan Curbishley for enabling me to see top-class football at The Valley in my lifetime. I appreciated it while it lasted but all good things come to an end.
I couldnt care less... I love charlton adn last season was the best for years for me....
As long as we dont go out of business then im happy, Id like to get into the championship... but truthfully its winning and scoring goals that do it for me....
if thats in League one or the conference or the Prem then so be it, I just like the feeling of a goal going in for us.......
hindsight is a wonderful thing, but when negotiating these deals couldn't the possibility of friendlies have been discussed, as was the case (i think) when we let dicanio go back to italy .
surely a home friendly with any of them 4 would not run at a loss.
*don't turn it into one of those threads.
If you open all parts of the ground then you have to put staff at all the points identified in the safety certificate, i.e. exits, gates, vomitories, etc. So to that extent the answer is yes and reasonably so since an unstaffed exit gate is the same potential hazard regardless how many people would need to use it, but . . . with the lower crowds we have in League One and lower numbers of away fans there are much lower numbers of crowd management stewards and lower numbers of police, so overall costs are lower.
You need to bear in mind, however, that the club still has to bear the cost of traffic management and street cleaning regardless of the level of fixture and these were conditioned in the various planning applications since we came back to The Valley. The club and the council have worked together to keep these to a minimum, but these activities would still be required for a friendly against Spurs.
It is not true that there has been any serious consideration of closing parts of the ground for league games since the savings do not stack up against the likely lost revenue. We've probably given it as much consideration as was necessary to establish that.
I'm not that bothered either this year but that said cannot help but wonder when (if ever) I will see top level football at The Valley again.